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so now with unbound and even ally shinanegans, it seems that genestealer cults can now be made! I only ask how, as I'm not to savy with it.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
so now with unbound and even ally shinanegans, it seems that genestealer cults can now be made! I only ask how, as I'm not to savy with it.

How about IG with Genestealers?

You take as many Genestealers as you want and nominate one of your Broodlords as an HQ for your Unbound list. Or, you can do Tyranids / IG. Legal. Yes. Viable? Dunno.

Footsoldiers: Cultists/IG platoons/genestealers (vets for hybrids maybe?)
Magos: Perhaps a daemon psyker? or a primaris with telepathy?
Youve got plently of vehicles to choose from
Priests for cult leaders

Really theres very little limit, just the extent of your imagination, wallet, and ambition

how should the structure be though? and would this work best as unbound or bound?

Well do you want a fluffy list or an I want to win list? An I want to win list may not be fluffy so may not be considered a Genestealer Cult army then.

Yes and no...

You could create a sort of crude approximation of a Genestealer Cult by using Guard and Tyranids, or an Unbound Tyranid army.

But Genestealer Cults were quite a bit more than that- they were a full army with their own unique units that were not shared by any other faction. The playstyle of a Cult was far different than the way GW wants people to play 40k in the new editions, which is probably why they were forgotten and have been long abandoned.

Cults had two unique character units (The Magus and Patriarch), which led a small band of minions. Genestealers were available to smash through enemy ranks, and various enslaved humans and genestealer hybrids could be used as fodder and fire support. Your unique heroes were very special and useful, but also something you had to be careful with to avoid losing.

In GW's recent 'everything must be used, high point, no skirmishes' trend, a cult wouldn't be a very impressive thing at all. Your special leader would be blown away by a tank or superheavy, your genestealers would never reach the enemy lines, and your lesser warriors would immediatly break. Genestealer Cults just wouldn't adapt well to the extremely high-point games or battles against superheavies GW's pushing.

^^ Unless of course the genestealer cult operated out of a certain house with a certain Knight detachment?

With unbound? VERY viable! & very cool!

If Genestealers can still infiltrate, you could probably pull it off using detachments as well, by deploying all your Guard stuff normally and infiltrating or outflanking the genestealers to get around the "can't deploy within 12" rule.

I'm sure someone will cook up a 7E Genestealer Cult Codex using the Unbound Rules and counts as

Back in 5th I had a plan for a counts as army with Gaunts as cultists (since they're basically IG equivelents) and TMCs as various macroservitors.

Never went too far with it though. It might be the best way to do it.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
how should the structure be though? and would this work best as unbound or bound?

You can build a AM list as genestealer cultist, (even comissars, and priests, they just serve a different mistress) Then you can ally in Tyranids, even the fluff says that Stealers don't Want to rejoin the Hive, so "Till the endtimes" seems fluffy as well.

The old fluff made a lot of Hybrid Stealers being boss Psychers, so Psycho-spam seems like a good build. I'd spam Telepathy, as that is the fluff power.....So just call your Primarhus Psycho a "Magus", and its all good.

would there be genestealer commisars or maybe warped versions of them to provide synapse? and since there is a formation you could try the genestealer one with AM too, right?

Perhaps I am too naive, but I wouldn´t consider this an unbound army: just house-rule Broodlords as HQ and that´s all you need. If your opponent has ever heard of the Genestealer Cult, ask him to use Allies of Convenience instead of Come the Apocalypse

 Mysterious Pants wrote:
Yes and no...

You could create a sort of crude approximation of a Genestealer Cult by using Guard and Tyranids, or an Unbound Tyranid army.

But Genestealer Cults were quite a bit more than that- they were a full army with their own unique units that were not shared by any other faction. The playstyle of a Cult was far different than the way GW wants people to play 40k in the new editions, which is probably why they were forgotten and have been long abandoned.

Cults had two unique character units (The Magus and Patriarch), which led a small band of minions. Genestealers were available to smash through enemy ranks, and various enslaved humans and genestealer hybrids could be used as fodder and fire support. Your unique heroes were very special and useful, but also something you had to be careful with to avoid losing.

In GW's recent 'everything must be used, high point, no skirmishes' trend, a cult wouldn't be a very impressive thing at all. Your special leader would be blown away by a tank or superheavy, your genestealers would never reach the enemy lines, and your lesser warriors would immediatly break. Genestealer Cults just wouldn't adapt well to the extremely high-point games or battles against superheavies GW's pushing.

Objection!

You can fix that by taking some Leman Russes or perhaps a Superheavy. I don´t see why a cult could not get some tanks... The Magus could be a primaris psyker (not good enough, but it is something).

The real problem is the Genestealers. The unit is a failure, far away from the extremely efficient killing machine it was in the game (and it is in the background, did somebody try the last Space Hulk videogame?). Perhaps you could use instead some Ymgarl Genestealers from the previous Codex as troops? This is another step towards house-ruling though.

I just had this idea too.

It certainly gives IG oomph in CC.

 da001 wrote:
Perhaps I am too naive, but I wouldn´t consider this an unbound army: just house-rule Broodlords as HQ and that´s all you need. If your opponent has ever heard of the Genestealer Cult, ask him to use Allies of Convenience instead of Come the Apocalypse

 Mysterious Pants wrote:
Yes and no...

You could create a sort of crude approximation of a Genestealer Cult by using Guard and Tyranids, or an Unbound Tyranid army.

But Genestealer Cults were quite a bit more than that- they were a full army with their own unique units that were not shared by any other faction. The playstyle of a Cult was far different than the way GW wants people to play 40k in the new editions, which is probably why they were forgotten and have been long abandoned.

Cults had two unique character units (The Magus and Patriarch), which led a small band of minions. Genestealers were available to smash through enemy ranks, and various enslaved humans and genestealer hybrids could be used as fodder and fire support. Your unique heroes were very special and useful, but also something you had to be careful with to avoid losing.

In GW's recent 'everything must be used, high point, no skirmishes' trend, a cult wouldn't be a very impressive thing at all. Your special leader would be blown away by a tank or superheavy, your genestealers would never reach the enemy lines, and your lesser warriors would immediatly break. Genestealer Cults just wouldn't adapt well to the extremely high-point games or battles against superheavies GW's pushing.

Objection!

You can fix that by taking some Leman Russes or perhaps a Superheavy. I don´t see why a cult could not get some tanks... The Magus could be a primaris psyker (not good enough, but it is something).

The real problem is the Genestealers. The unit is a failure, far away from the extremely efficient killing machine it was in the game (and it is in the background, did somebody try the last Space Hulk videogame?). Perhaps you could use instead some Ymgarl Genestealers from the previous Codex as troops? This is another step towards house-ruling though.

Well...heck, you could put 6 Stealers in a Vendetta? I suppose "Till Doomsday" allies can't do that. But it Would be cool! And you can Outflank Stealers can't you? At least that lets them close in relative safety...

 Mysterious Pants wrote:
Yes and no...

You could create a sort of crude approximation of a Genestealer Cult by using Guard and Tyranids, or an Unbound Tyranid army.

But Genestealer Cults were quite a bit more than that- they were a full army with their own unique units that were not shared by any other faction. The playstyle of a Cult was far different than the way GW wants people to play 40k in the new editions, which is probably why they were forgotten and have been long abandoned.

Cults had two unique character units (The Magus and Patriarch), which led a small band of minions. Genestealers were available to smash through enemy ranks, and various enslaved humans and genestealer hybrids could be used as fodder and fire support. Your unique heroes were very special and useful, but also something you had to be careful with to avoid losing.

In GW's recent 'everything must be used, high point, no skirmishes' trend, a cult wouldn't be a very impressive thing at all. Your special leader would be blown away by a tank or superheavy, your genestealers would never reach the enemy lines, and your lesser warriors would immediatly break. Genestealer Cults just wouldn't adapt well to the extremely high-point games or battles against superheavies GW's pushing.

Easily handled by having your Genestealer Cult represent the Cult activity in the final days before (or even during) the Tyranid invasion. When the Hive Fleet arrives, the Cult activates en masse and does everything it possibly can to weaken the defenses of the planet(s) they are on.

You could easily use IG/AM to represent subverted PDF. Keep it low-tech; try to avoid things that would be IG exclusive.

Conversions and some sort of subtle Genestealer iconography on the troops will be key to making sure that people know what they are facing (more than just IG with some Tyranids thrown in, and distinct from Chaos Guard).

The Genestealer Cult concept hasn't been fleshed out much in recent years, although there is loads on it in the Commissar Cain (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!) books. Those are worth a read for some inspiration with what you can do for a Genestealer Cult beyond the old models you can pull off of ebay.

As for how to bring some actual Genestealers into it...

Unbound is easy, just run IG appropriately with some Genestealers thrown in.

It would be better for you to steer clear of Unbound though, just in case someone refuses to play you. Battle-Forged looks easier to game with.

All this really means is running IG with a Tyranid Allied Detachment. What you run from the Tyranids is up to you. I would suggest limiting yourself to Genestealers, Broodlords and (maybe) Lictors though, since this is to be a fluffy army. Deathleaper or a Tyranid Prime (converted to resemble a lithe Broodlord?) and two units of Genestealers with Broodlords? My ideal choice would be to run a Manufactorum Genestealers Formation (5x5 Genestealers with a special sort of Infiltrate that lets them deploy in any Ruin or Building on the board, no questions asked). This gives you the "coming out of the sewers" alien ambush vibe, but I cannot work out from reading the book whether or not your Allied Detachment can be a formation or not.

Loads of interesting ways to go about it though.

Xyptc wrote:

 Mysterious Pants wrote:
Yes and no...

You could create a sort of crude approximation of a Genestealer Cult by using Guard and Tyranids, or an Unbound Tyranid army.

But Genestealer Cults were quite a bit more than that- they were a full army with their own unique units that were not shared by any other faction. The playstyle of a Cult was far different than the way GW wants people to play 40k in the new editions, which is probably why they were forgotten and have been long abandoned.

Cults had two unique character units (The Magus and Patriarch), which led a small band of minions. Genestealers were available to smash through enemy ranks, and various enslaved humans and genestealer hybrids could be used as fodder and fire support. Your unique heroes were very special and useful, but also something you had to be careful with to avoid losing.

In GW's recent 'everything must be used, high point, no skirmishes' trend, a cult wouldn't be a very impressive thing at all. Your special leader would be blown away by a tank or superheavy, your genestealers would never reach the enemy lines, and your lesser warriors would immediatly break. Genestealer Cults just wouldn't adapt well to the extremely high-point games or battles against superheavies GW's pushing.

Easily handled by having your Genestealer Cult represent the Cult activity in the final days before (or even during) the Tyranid invasion. When the Hive Fleet arrives, the Cult activates en masse and does everything it possibly can to weaken the defenses of the planet(s) they are on.

You could easily use IG/AM to represent subverted PDF. Keep it low-tech; try to avoid things that would be IG exclusive.

Conversions and some sort of subtle Genestealer iconography on the troops will be key to making sure that people know what they are facing (more than just IG with some Tyranids thrown in, and distinct from Chaos Guard).

The Genestealer Cult concept hasn't been fleshed out much in recent years, although there is loads on it in the Commissar Cain (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!) books. Those are worth a read for some inspiration with what you can do for a Genestealer Cult beyond the old models you can pull off of ebay.

As for how to bring some actual Genestealers into it...

Unbound is easy, just run IG appropriately with some Genestealers thrown in.

It would be better for you to steer clear of Unbound though, just in case someone refuses to play you. Battle-Forged looks easier to game with.

All this really means is running IG with a Tyranid Allied Detachment. What you run from the Tyranids is up to you. I would suggest limiting yourself to Genestealers, Broodlords and (maybe) Lictors though, since this is to be a fluffy army. Deathleaper or a Tyranid Prime (converted to resemble a lithe Broodlord?) and two units of Genestealers with Broodlords? My ideal choice would be to run a Manufactorum Genestealers Formation (5x5 Genestealers with a special sort of Infiltrate that lets them deploy in any Ruin or Building on the board, no questions asked). This gives you the "coming out of the sewers" alien ambush vibe, but I cannot work out from reading the book whether or not your Allied Detachment can be a formation or not.

Loads of interesting ways to go about it though.

Well, You could build it as Nids, with Stealer Cult allies. The primary detach can certainly take Formations, so it should work out fine.

I think I would really like modding a Leman Russ to have a Stealer Hybrid Tank commander. Annother way to go would be "counts as" You could use Nids as Abhumans. So Bulgrens could be Warriors, and the like...

But (because I play Nids as a primary) will give serious thought to adding a Allied AM Stealer Cult. (Rebel PDF surely )

 da001 wrote:
Perhaps I am too naive, but I wouldn´t consider this an unbound army: just house-rule Broodlords as HQ and that´s all you need. If your opponent has ever heard of the Genestealer Cult, ask him to use Allies of Convenience instead of Come the Apocalypse

 Mysterious Pants wrote:
Yes and no...

You could create a sort of crude approximation of a Genestealer Cult by using Guard and Tyranids, or an Unbound Tyranid army.

But Genestealer Cults were quite a bit more than that- they were a full army with their own unique units that were not shared by any other faction. The playstyle of a Cult was far different than the way GW wants people to play 40k in the new editions, which is probably why they were forgotten and have been long abandoned.

Cults had two unique character units (The Magus and Patriarch), which led a small band of minions. Genestealers were available to smash through enemy ranks, and various enslaved humans and genestealer hybrids could be used as fodder and fire support. Your unique heroes were very special and useful, but also something you had to be careful with to avoid losing.

In GW's recent 'everything must be used, high point, no skirmishes' trend, a cult wouldn't be a very impressive thing at all. Your special leader would be blown away by a tank or superheavy, your genestealers would never reach the enemy lines, and your lesser warriors would immediatly break. Genestealer Cults just wouldn't adapt well to the extremely high-point games or battles against superheavies GW's pushing.

Objection!

You can fix that by taking some Leman Russes or perhaps a Superheavy. I don´t see why a cult could not get some tanks... The Magus could be a primaris psyker (not good enough, but it is something).

The real problem is the Genestealers. The unit is a failure, far away from the extremely efficient killing machine it was in the game (and it is in the background, did somebody try the last Space Hulk videogame?). Perhaps you could use instead some Ymgarl Genestealers from the previous Codex as troops? This is another step towards house-ruling though.

If I was building a Genestealer Cult army, I'd focus on the AM portion as the primary Combined Arms detachment, using AM psykers as Magus/HQs, conscripts with an infantry platoon or two as your basic cultists/hybrids, throw in a couple of light transport tanks such as a Chimera or Taurox (which models nicely as a limo with some work), maybe add a LRBT or two for some ranged punch. Then, get one of the Genestealer-only formation dataslates (I think one or two of them allows for a single Broodlord). Boom, Genestealer Cult army that has Objective Secured even and should be largely tournament legal (and the Stealers have infiltrate, so you can easily deploy them 12" away from the main force)! I'd use the formation dataslate since then you don't have to houserule a Broodlord as a HQ.

The real trick is getting it to look right. To be honest, the reason those Cult armies were so cool was the sheer amount of custom work that was done in them, not that they were overly effective or diverse. Conscripts would be your 1st generation hybrids, while the basic infantry platoons would be 2nd (with their leaders 3rd generation). Its not winning any hardcore tournaments, but I think you'd have alot of people that wanted to play against the army just for the coolness factor.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 da001 wrote:
Perhaps I am too naive, but I wouldn´t consider this an unbound army: just house-rule Broodlords as HQ and that´s all you need. If your opponent has ever heard of the Genestealer Cult, ask him to use Allies of Convenience instead of Come the Apocalypse

 Mysterious Pants wrote:
Yes and no...

You could create a sort of crude approximation of a Genestealer Cult by using Guard and Tyranids, or an Unbound Tyranid army.

But Genestealer Cults were quite a bit more than that- they were a full army with their own unique units that were not shared by any other faction. The playstyle of a Cult was far different than the way GW wants people to play 40k in the new editions, which is probably why they were forgotten and have been long abandoned.

Cults had two unique character units (The Magus and Patriarch), which led a small band of minions. Genestealers were available to smash through enemy ranks, and various enslaved humans and genestealer hybrids could be used as fodder and fire support. Your unique heroes were very special and useful, but also something you had to be careful with to avoid losing.

In GW's recent 'everything must be used, high point, no skirmishes' trend, a cult wouldn't be a very impressive thing at all. Your special leader would be blown away by a tank or superheavy, your genestealers would never reach the enemy lines, and your lesser warriors would immediatly break. Genestealer Cults just wouldn't adapt well to the extremely high-point games or battles against superheavies GW's pushing.

Objection!

You can fix that by taking some Leman Russes or perhaps a Superheavy. I don´t see why a cult could not get some tanks... The Magus could be a primaris psyker (not good enough, but it is something).

The real problem is the Genestealers. The unit is a failure, far away from the extremely efficient killing machine it was in the game (and it is in the background, did somebody try the last Space Hulk videogame?). Perhaps you could use instead some Ymgarl Genestealers from the previous Codex as troops? This is another step towards house-ruling though.

If I was building a Genestealer Cult army, I'd focus on the AM portion as the primary Combined Arms detachment, using AM psykers as Magus/HQs, conscripts with an infantry platoon or two as your basic cultists/hybrids, throw in a couple of light transport tanks such as a Chimera or Taurox (which models nicely as a limo with some work), maybe add a LRBT or two for some ranged punch. Then, get one of the Genestealer-only formation dataslates (I think one or two of them allows for a single Broodlord). Boom, Genestealer Cult army that has Objective Secured even and should be largely tournament legal (and the Stealers have infiltrate, so you can easily deploy them 12" away from the main force)! I'd use the formation dataslate since then you don't have to houserule a Broodlord as a HQ.

The real trick is getting it to look right. To be honest, the reason those Cult armies were so cool was the sheer amount of custom work that was done in them, not that they were overly effective or diverse. Conscripts would be your 1st generation hybrids, while the basic infantry platoons would be 2nd (with their leaders 3rd generation). Its not winning any hardcore tournaments, but I think you'd have alot of people that wanted to play against the army just for the coolness factor.

Word, just the idea of modding a Commisar with 4 arms makes me grin.