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RAW, this seems to be the case. I don't think this is intended, but it does seem to be the case.

According to the Rulebook, a Chariot has Dual Profiles, but is treated as a single model.

The wording for the Phase Shifter is "A model with a Phase Shifter has a 3+ Invulnerable Save"

So, RAWise the Chariot has a 3++.

Thoughts?

....Oooooh...

I like the way you think.

I'd rather slit my wrists than agree with you, but I guess I have to.

Is this more broken than mss for sure!

MY GOD! THE CHEESE!

THE TERRIBLE, MAGNIFICENT CHEESE!!!

Got an Apocalypse game coming up... Should I?

It is ridiculous yet beautiful at the same time.

So add in mss to the mix....it'll be like fondue

Yeah, it's still 45pts for the phase shifter remember.

For an OL with WS, mSS, and PS on a barge that comes in at 240 pts...

Don't get me wrong, I'm going to try it, but it's not something game breaking by any means IMHO.

bginer wrote:
Yeah, it's still 45pts for the phase shifter remember.

For an OL with WS, mSS, and PS on a barge that comes in at 240 pts...

Don't get me wrong, I'm going to try it, but it's not something game breaking by any means IMHO.

Don't forget the Reanimation Orb, if your spending that many points on a single model might as well give it that extra 17% chance of reanimating.

Ya, that guy's kinda really good.

Don't forget, dude has fleet and ignores cover. If he fails a dangerous terrain roll, he just takes a hull-point, as chariots can't be immobilized....

Kinda really good.

@ Jace, Very good point! If one is putting this many points into a unit...

So a Res Orb is 30pts which brings us up to 270pts for the unit.

With no great ranged weapon, and the opponent can still pick out the OL in CC.

Hmm, actually not looking as good as I thought...

LOL ..... still pick out the War Scythe, 3++ lord, resses 50% of the time, w a 2+ in combat ...... the poor vulnerable weak lord.

I want to know since they are 1 unit if the Phylactery will give the chariot a 1d3 back w/ the lord?



EDIT opps and he has MSSs too.

My thoughts?

You have just provided me with yet another reason to take the new beastly CCB!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mythra wrote:
I want to know since they are 1 unit if the Phylactery will give the chariot a 1d3 back w/ the lord?

My take on this issue is, no. Phylactery is specific about restoring Wounds, and doesn't say Hull Points. However, there was some disagreement about this on another board.

It can be read both ways imo.

On the one hand, the rules say that a chariot is treated as a single model.

On the other hand, it still mentions characters and the chariot being seperate models at the same time ([...]that model's chariot is also returned to play[...]).

RAW, i would argue for the former, though, because:

"[...]a Chariot is always treated as a single model."

Technically, it's not too broken, imo, as you would normally get a 4++ for the Chariot anyway due to Jink. It still is a good boost.

Phylactery, however, seems very clear to me. It explicitely speaks of restoring "wounds" and a Chariot does not have wounds, it has HP. Therefore, a Phylactery may only restore an Overlord's wounds and not the HP of its chariot.

So wait, why was MSS brought up? Is the chariot able to use MSS as well?

Of course. While the Overlord brings the MSS to the battlefield, it and the chariot are considered to be one single model. Technically, it's not the chariot using MSS, but the Overlord. On the battlefield, though, this doesn't matter.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Of course. While the Overlord brings the MSS to the battlefield, it and the chariot are considered to be one single model. Technically, it's not the chariot using MSS, but the Overlord. On the battlefield, though, this doesn't matter.

So it is no longer two models and when it is in base contact, there is only one thing in base contact now, not two like before.

So chariot and lord are counted as a single model, right? So what is the deal with independent character rule?
There is a rule that forbids independent character from joining to vehicle units, but there ain't no rule that forbids IC joining to units even he is in chariot?

So if im not understanding this wrong, CCB OL can join to units?

Fellstrom wrote:
So chariot and lord are counted as a single model, right? So what is the deal with independent character rule?
There is a rule that forbids independent character from joining to vehicle units, but there ain't no rule that forbids IC joining to units even he is in chariot?

So if im not understanding this wrong, CCB OL can join to units?

I almost did a spit take when I read this. And I though O'vesa caused rules problems, I can't find anything in the rules preventing this. Can you attached your Overlord on are CCB to your lychgaurd? Please tell me there is something to prevent this.

 Nilok wrote:

Fellstrom wrote:
So chariot and lord are counted as a single model, right? So what is the deal with independent character rule?
There is a rule that forbids independent character from joining to vehicle units, but there ain't no rule that forbids IC joining to units even he is in chariot?

So if im not understanding this wrong, CCB OL can join to units?

I almost did a spit take when I read this. And I though O'vesa caused rules problems, I can't find anything in the rules preventing this. Can you attached your Overlord on are CCB to your lychgaurd? Please tell me there is something to prevent this.

I suppose you could but your CCB would lose all it's mobility. A more dangerous suggestion would be attaching the CCB to scarabs, wraiths or destroyers.

bginer wrote:
@ Jace, Very good point! If one is putting this many points into a unit...

So a Res Orb is 30pts which brings us up to 270pts for the unit.

With no great ranged weapon, and the opponent can still pick out the OL in CC.

Hmm, actually not looking as good as I thought...

Regarding ranged weapon . . . .the Tesla or Gauss Cannon on it isn't too shabby.

This gives possibilites for Khorne Heralds on a Blood Throne joining, say, a squad of Bloodcrushers..

I'm all for it. Its RAW, hardly game breaking, and given the other ridiculous stuff out there, hardly the worst thing to deal with in the game. I'd love to the the Crons get a leg up on some of the other 'dexes this edition

From another board...

Doesn't this mean that a Sempiternal Weave will also extend a 2+ Armor Save to the CCB?

So let's say he has joined a unit and has the movement capability to move over the enemy and be 2" away from his unit at the end of the movement phase, does that mean he can be in the unit and do his sweep attack?

Daemon Heralds can get all sorts of funky rewards, which would, by extension, extend to the chariot as well. Even though some are useless (like FNP), some are awesome (re-roll invulnerable saves for instance..)

 jasper76 wrote:
From another board...

Doesn't this mean that a Sempiternal Weave will also extend a 2+ Armor Save to the CCB?

I suppose, but do vehicles take armor saves? I've only seen them have invul and cover saves.

 Lobukia wrote:
I'm all for it. Its RAW, hardly game breaking, and given the other ridiculous stuff out there, hardly the worst thing to deal with in the game. I'd love to the the Crons get a leg up on some of the other 'dexes this edition

I just love the idea of running a Berserkrons list and having my Overlord surf up to a Riptide and wreck its face.

Zimko wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
From another board...

Doesn't this mean that a Sempiternal Weave will also extend a 2+ Armor Save to the CCB?

I suppose, but do vehicles take armor saves? I've only seen them have invul and cover saves.

Dunno...uncharted territory???

 jasper76 wrote:
From another board...

Doesn't this mean that a Sempiternal Weave will also extend a 2+ Armor Save to the CCB?

Armour Saves are only permitted against shots that cause wounds. Invunereable saves are permitted against shots that will cause wounds or penetrating- and glancing hits. You can check this from pages 36 and 37 where this is explained.

I think this will be the change maker when you consider taking almost 300 points HQ choice in your army. Just hide it in unit of wraiths so it will get to CC for sure without taking damage.

Or another use what I see is using it to block anti infantry fire by putting it in front of some squishy unit, maybe warriors. With this you could even have a chance to walk unit of lychguard or preatorians to cc range.

Gosh this all sounds cheezy.

the rule book covers this does it not?

with regards to shooting, even tho the chariot counts as a single model, you decide where to allocate the hits, either the rider or the chariot.
with regards to close combat wounds, the opponent decides where to allocate his hits, either the rider or the chariot.

So in shooting you can always claim the 3+ invul if you like, but not in close combat.