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I'm wondering what we're gonna start to see in competitive lists as far as scoring options: are people gonna go for a troop-heavy army to take advantage of objective-secured? Or take the minimum amount of troops and fill-up the other options?

I think a lot will depend on the Faction used and the tournament rules on list-building, assuming a 1-FOC/1-ally setup and about 2k I'm wondering which side would each faction lean towards. I play SM and to a lesser extent DA, here are some ideas I would lean towards:

Ultramarines: Calgar-led army with at least 3-4 full tactical squads in rhinos or pods; deploy quickly, get the objectives early and overwhelm the enemy with 9+ scoring units (combat-squads and transports) that have the Objective-Secured USR, and can choose to pass or fail Morale checks (good luck shifting those units)

Raven Guard/White Scars: similar as above but with spammed tacticals in scouting rhinos, obviously White Scars on bikes will still be a great contender for a Troop-heavy

Templars: Crusader-squads/LRC spam? could be interesting, scoring LRCs with Objective-Secured is a pretty tough unit

IF: unsure... I love those guys, but they kinda need some balance point-wise to include the juicy Heavies (devs and centurions) which prevents you from spamming out a bunch of Tacticals

CF: min troops and max podding sternguards?

Salamanders: don't know, their CT boosts different units

IHs: I can see IH going min-max and loading up on high AV vehicles since they got a boost in 7th

Astra-Militarum, Sisters, Inquisition: lots of troops in dedicated transports

DAs: I could see RW doing decent, while DW got a boost with Objective-Secured and no more 50% on the board requirement I don't see them getting near competitive for tournament

SW and BAs: don't play them so unsure

Xenos and Chaos? I don't know, you tell me. I can see Tau going min-max, and Eldar have great scoring jetbikes but beyond that I'm unsure.

What do you guys think?

I don't think we should assume single force org.

Orks, under the current book at least, would go heavy troops for sure. With multi-force perhaps a fleet of battlewagons w/ boyz

I'm just going with what I know my local tournies and some larger tourney venues (ATC) are going with.

But thanks for the feedback about the Orks, that's good to know. It'll be interesting if their new dex will change that.

My iron hands list has both tons of troops and tons of vehicles: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/597748.page

This is now my tournament build.

 phoenix darkus wrote:
...and Eldar have great scoring jetbikes but beyond that I'm unsure.

More than that, they have scoring (and potentially Objective Secured) Wave Serpents. On the other hand, there are a number of other choices that while not having OS are extremely durable or fast that can either easily contest other objectives or move where needed while still being a threat. Warp Spiders have insane movement, for one, and I'm totally looking forward to my Wraithknight always being scoring as well.

I think that for Eldar it'll come down to the personal taste of the player. Running a Seer Council that simply cannot be moved off of an objective is certainly a good option, but so is taking some Jetbikes and a couple/few Serpents with Avengers/Guardians. It's an already-flexible book that was only mildly nerfed by the 7E changes (and which gained a couple quiet buffs as well). What might really swing things is the specific format of a tournament, and whether it allows multiple Battle Forged detachments or not: if you can run 3-4 Farseers, the temptation to run a Council certainly increases as does its relative power level.

Good input Magc8Ball, excellent point about the Wave Serpents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Ryan_A, that list is pretty cool, I would think that per the new Battle Bros rules your Knight gains IWND?

Can you confirm that?

Chaos doesn't really have the luxury of troop units unless you love a certain type of god marine to death. Cultists are decent tarpits once you get on the objective, but you need guys to clear out the other troops. Since we don't have fancy sniper rifles and have to accept challenges, characters can be a hassle to the army, even conferring their godly saves to a bunch of weaklings. So instead we need to focus on destructive machines of war and Obliterators while everything else mostly tanks hits for them.

Most of the Chaos Space Marine units are actually Chaos Space Marines, just with fancy upgrades here and there that make them 5% different from the other variants. So taking a ton of troop choices is essentially going to be like spamming a bunch of CSM troops which can easily be countered by a single TYPE of weapon.

Then there's the meta... if people start countering Daemon Factory, we'll be seeing more boardwipe armies that have advantages against massive amounts of troops. Picking troop at that point puts you at a disadvantage. Nah, think the CSMs will stick to armored columns of daemon/machine hybrids and cultist tarpits.

What about a Tiphus/Zombies combo? Fearless blobs of tarpitting goodness backed up by... I don't know? Helldrakes, Oblits...?

 phoenix darkus wrote:
What about a Tiphus/Zombies combo? Fearless blobs of tarpitting goodness backed up by... I don't know? Helldrakes, Oblits...?

This has always been a good build IMO and will be strong in 7th, as long as you incorporate some strong 'attack' elements.

Can anyone pitch in for SW? BA? Obviously Orks are coming so we'd have to wait until the new dex is out but I would think that large blobs will be their forte.

How about Nids?

Thanks

I always play troop heavy for SW, Grey Hunters in Drop Pods with three Long Fang squads in Razorbacks, now with Rune Priests on Bikes in blobs of Fenrisian Wolves

In one FoC there are 12 Objective Secured items, 6 troop choices and 6 drop pods - as always Long Fangs really pack a punch

Trying out Biomancy Rune Priests on bikes with 15 Fenrisian Wolves each as character/psyker hunters

With Tau and more than one combined arms detachment?



Crisis and markerlights, oh my!

 phoenix darkus wrote:
Good input Magc8Ball, excellent point about the Wave Serpents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Ryan_A, that list is pretty cool, I would think that per the new Battle Bros rules your Knight gains IWND?

Can you confirm that?

IKs aren't part of the same detachment Ih comes from. AFAIK, you can't give IWND to any vehicle outside your Detachment.
Now, Super-heavies ARE in IH's detachment... Titan, Thunderhawk, Marauder or a Fellblade with IWND sounds juicy

Nids seem to be running in two directions... I ran "Swamp'em with Troops" Lists in 6Th, so I expect not to make many changes for 7Th.

But I am seeing plenty of players rushing back to the old "minimal investment" strategy. They seem to be planning to table, or contest with MC's (Flying or walking) So Nid'zilla has gotten a measurable boost.