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I'm looking for advice on which iteration of this list would be both fun and competitive. A couple of points before you look:

I like the genestealers. Due to nightfighting and being able to G2G (along with the other threats) I feel that they should be rather low on the priority list. The Broodlord doubles as a Warp Charge battery for the Flyrants just like a Zoanthrope would and he is a beast when he needs to be. With Move through cover basically granting assault grenades now I feel much more confident that the genestealers will be just fine. Lastly, in conjunction with the comms relay, I have lots of deployment options + reliability. I can choose to either keep them off the board or bring them on when I choose (more or less)

I'm not trying to spam Flryants, I love them, they're very competitive, but I only have two and I don't want more....

Venomthrope in the box idea to increase the survivability of the FMCs OR against an unsuspecting opponent I can embark the genestealers in it because due to the building rules now, a unit can charge when it disembarks.

Depending on the Warlord trait I go for (Master of Ambush would be awesome with the Dakkafexen) the core of this list can throw lots of scoring units down my opponent's throat quickly while providing awesome scoring.

Dakkafexen

Mawlocs


Biovores


Please feel free to include any comments regarding if you'd amend any of the lists as they appear here.

EDIT: I should add that even though it looks that synapse is non existent barring the Flyrants, I should remind you that Broodlords now have Dominion primaris and they can pretty much become Synapse creatures whenever I want them to.

I don't think you've got an answer for one Imperial Knight, let alone multiples. Carnifexes charging maybe, side shots from tyrants but that's not a great solution imo - tyranids lack in this area unless you spam electroshock and crones.

The dominion power providing synapse to a non synapse creature is very much debatable.

I think the first list is the most TAC.

djn wrote:
I don't think you've got an answer for one Imperial Knight, let alone multiples. Carnifexes charging maybe, side shots from tyrants but that's not a great solution imo - tyranids lack in this area unless you spam electroshock and crones.

Agreed. A Knight would be a problem. On the other hand, being that just about everything that I bring would have Objective secured, a Knight can only be in one place at any given time....I could always throw expendable Gargoyle units at it in attempt to tie it up......IDK. That's maybe just one of those hard counters that I hope to not encounter....

djn wrote:
The dominion power providing synapse to a non synapse creature is very much debatable.

I disagree. The FAQ states:

Page 69 - Dominion
Add the following sentence to the end of Dominion's rule: 'If the Psyker does not have the Synapse Creature special rule, it gains it for the duration of this power and has a synapse range of 6".'

The only Psyker in Codex:Tyranids (let alone any of the dataslates associated with it) that is not also a synapse creature by default, is the Broodlord.

Given, this is a RAW vs. RAI argument that I don't think should be discussed here, but they wouldn't/shouldn't be putting this type of rule clarification into an FAQ if there's no application for it. There would be no application for it if they never intended to confer these rules to the Broodlord.

djn wrote:
I think the first list is the most TAC.

After more thought, I agree with you here too.

While I am a big fan of Mawloc, it just, is not possable, to argue against Carnifexen. How are you planning to handle Psycher spam? I suspect that will be a "thing". Mostly because Seerstar is a thing, and that gives Psycher spam as a side effect.

Knights, and big vehicles in general are a concern, so you might look at all available options. I suspect that tossing in a Knight will be a common way to spice up any Imperial list. At least you'll have Carnifexen. The only other answers that seem practical are Electro-bugs, and Vector stikes from Crone(s), so try to fit as much of that in, as can fit...

Thanks for the heads up on the brood lord. Missed that in the FAQs.

Have to ask why the bastions?

katana100 wrote:
Have to ask why the bastions?

The bastion (singular) is for additional LOS blocking terrain, access to comms relay (in the case of the Mawlocs), a significant shrouded bubble wherever I want (in addition to stealth gives a minimum of 4+ cv in the open), I can double it as a late game protection for my troops, and I can possibly catch the unsuspecting opponent by infiltrating genestealers into it and the assaulting out of it (obviously not on turn 1).

Additionally, I can place combinations of units in and around it to create a large area of denial (as with the dakkafexen being a 36" circle around the bastion) or I can use it as a safe house for the biovore list (by placing it adjacent to another LOS piece of terrain and giving them a hideout).

Any other thoughts on my list?

I am considering dropping the bastion and Venomthrope in favor of a couple Zoanthropes and Electroshock grubs on the Flyrants....

Any opinions on that?

roxor08 wrote:
Any other thoughts on my list?

I am considering dropping the bastion and Venomthrope in favor of a couple Zoanthropes and Electroshock grubs on the Flyrants....

Any opinions on that?

Well, as you know. That is the direction I lean in, so I would ...

I think that would depend on your playstyle. The bastion + VT has worked well for me in the past, but Zoey are an interesting play in 7th (no longer reliable in shooting due to Psychic changes, but VERY interesting for Synapse boosting and easy-to-hide Catalyst. ESG on the Flyrants are a mixed bag, as the only thing you would likely choose to shoot it at rather than the second TLDwW would be a AR13-14 vehicle. I guess it would depend on your local meta.

Anytime you add a fortification, you run the risk of becoming static rather than dynamic, and we are progressing well into the age of DYNAMIChammer. As you mentioned you like having it to mix things up, I think it is still a pretty good choice. If you have the models (or suitable proxies) I'd try both. The hilarity of Genestealers shooting people with heavy bolters from the bastion ALMOST makes me say go with that one.

For what it's worth, if anyone cares...I think I've decided on a variation that is more similar to the Dakkafexen list above. It is as follows:
Primary CAD
Dakka Flyrant-Electroshock grubs
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Broodlord + 5 Genestealers
Broodlord + 5 Genestealers
2 Dakkafexen
Skyblight Formation
Dakka Flyrant-Electroshock grubs
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
Harpy-Stranglethorn cannon
Harpy-Heavy Venom cannon
Hive Crone

Since to reliably cast a ML 1 power, you need to expend 3 warp charges I've added the Zoanthropes for flexibility, more chances for Catalyst, and additional warp charge batteries. This way, assuming the extra D6 generated at the beginning of the psychic phase is average, (giving me a total of 11 WC) I should be able to reliably cast between 3-4 ML 1 powers on my turn. Hopefully, one or two of those are Catalyst :-/

roxor08 wrote:
For what it's worth, if anyone cares...I think I've decided on a variation that is more similar to the Dakkafexen list above. It is as follows:
Primary CAD
Dakka Flyrant-Electroshock grubs
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Broodlord + 5 Genestealers
Broodlord + 5 Genestealers
2 Dakkafexen
Skyblight Formation
Dakka Flyrant-Electroshock grubs
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
Harpy-Stranglethorn cannon
Harpy-Heavy Venom cannon
Hive Crone

Since to reliably cast a ML 1 power, you need to expend 3 warp charges I've added the Zoanthropes for flexibility, more chances for Catalyst, and additional warp charge batteries. This way, assuming the extra D6 generated at the beginning of the psychic phase is average, (giving me a total of 11 WC) I should be able to reliably cast between 3-4 ML 1 powers on my turn. Hopefully, one or two of those are Catalyst :-/

Looks nice....But I am confused by your count of WCs...Don't the Broodlords count as ML 1 as well? I count 10WC +D6...? Not a huge change, but WCs may well be more important, as defense vs Demon Factorys, so a couple of extra come in handy.

I wish you all the luck in the world with the Genestealers. They are my fave 'nids, but soooooo hard to use in 6th-7th!

Other than that, it looks solid! Lots of beef, a good portion of flyers, lots of OS for objectives... You might have problems against a heavy armor list, but that is kinda the big hole in 'nid lists right now.

pinecone77 wrote:

roxor08 wrote:
For what it's worth, if anyone cares...I think I've decided on a variation that is more similar to the Dakkafexen list above. It is as follows:
Primary CAD
Dakka Flyrant-Electroshock grubs
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Broodlord + 5 Genestealers
Broodlord + 5 Genestealers
2 Dakkafexen
Skyblight Formation
Dakka Flyrant-Electroshock grubs
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
Harpy-Stranglethorn cannon
Harpy-Heavy Venom cannon
Hive Crone

Since to reliably cast a ML 1 power, you need to expend 3 warp charges I've added the Zoanthropes for flexibility, more chances for Catalyst, and additional warp charge batteries. This way, assuming the extra D6 generated at the beginning of the psychic phase is average, (giving me a total of 11 WC) I should be able to reliably cast between 3-4 ML 1 powers on my turn. Hopefully, one or two of those are Catalyst :-/

Looks nice....But I am confused by your count of WCs...Don't the Broodlords count as ML 1 as well? I count 10WC +D6...? Not a huge change, but WCs may well be more important as defense vs Demon Factorys, so a couple of extra come in handy.

Ah ha! You are right! I had forgotten that while only ML 1, Zoanthropes generate 2 warp charges. Otherwise they couldn't use Wapr Blast. Duh me.....thanks for pointing that out!

KillerWabbit wrote:I wish you all the luck in the world with the Genestealers. They are my fave 'nids, but soooooo hard to use in 6th-7th!

Other than that, it looks solid! Lots of beef, a good portion of flyers, lots of OS for objectives... You might have problems against a heavy armor list, but that is kinda the big hole in 'nid lists right now.

Thanks! Yeah, heavy armor lists will be a problem. Fortunately, with lots of deployment manipulation, I can hopefully avoid the armor I can't deal with and focus on the AV 12 and under.

roxor08 wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

roxor08 wrote:
For what it's worth, if anyone cares...I think I've decided on a variation that is more similar to the Dakkafexen list above. It is as follows:
Primary CAD
Dakka Flyrant-Electroshock grubs
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
Broodlord + 5 Genestealers
Broodlord + 5 Genestealers
2 Dakkafexen
Skyblight Formation
Dakka Flyrant-Electroshock grubs
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
Harpy-Stranglethorn cannon
Harpy-Heavy Venom cannon
Hive Crone

Since to reliably cast a ML 1 power, you need to expend 3 warp charges I've added the Zoanthropes for flexibility, more chances for Catalyst, and additional warp charge batteries. This way, assuming the extra D6 generated at the beginning of the psychic phase is average, (giving me a total of 11 WC) I should be able to reliably cast between 3-4 ML 1 powers on my turn. Hopefully, one or two of those are Catalyst :-/

Looks nice....But I am confused by your count of WCs...Don't the Broodlords count as ML 1 as well? I count 10WC +D6...? Not a huge change, but WCs may well be more important as defense vs Demon Factorys, so a couple of extra come in handy.

Ah ha! You are right! I had forgotten that while only ML 1, Zoanthropes generate 2 warp charges. Otherwise they couldn't use Wapr Blast. Duh me.....thanks for pointing that out!

KillerWabbit wrote:I wish you all the luck in the world with the Genestealers. They are my fave 'nids, but soooooo hard to use in 6th-7th!

Other than that, it looks solid! Lots of beef, a good portion of flyers, lots of OS for objectives... You might have problems against a heavy armor list, but that is kinda the big hole in 'nid lists right now.

Thanks! Yeah, heavy armor lists will be a problem. Fortunately, with lots of deployment manipulation, I can hopefully avoid the armor I can't deal with and focus on the AV 12 and under.

Ummm...Zoeys are ML2 (You know I love the Zoeys ) that could help out for Deny rolls vs ML1 casters.

I think I like the carnifex list the best with the biovores being close second.

Zoeys are great for boosting psychic dice numbers.

I see one issue in your base assumptions. Move through cover is not equal to assault grenades. You still go at I1 instead of I6/7, you just don't suffer from the range reduction.

Other than tha love me some stealers. They are a core of all my lists. I tend to like list one most.

barnowl wrote:
I see one issue in your base assumptions. Move through cover is not equal to assault grenades. You still go at I1 instead of I6/7, you just don't suffer from the range reduction.

Other than tha love me some stealers. They are a core of all my lists. I tend to like list one most.

You are correct. I've since been shown my error in my interpretation of the move through cover rule. Otoh between the Stranglethorn cannon and two The Horror castings at -2 LD, I should be able to drop a unit to ground to negate the initiative penalty. I could even specifically target a psyker unit with the Genesteslers and in conjunction with a well placed, aggressive Flyrant, in order to force those pinning tests to a cumulative -5 LD against the Horror (a 72% chance of failure for a standard LD 10 unit) and -3 LD against the Stranglethorn fire (a 42% chance of failure for LD 10 units). For reference, a LD 10 unit affected by just the -2 LD modifier from the Horror will fail 28% of the time, and an unmodified LD of 10 only fails pinning tests 8% of the time.

I know that it seems like I'm relying on a pretty unorthodox and unreliable tactic that is pinning, but I would never put myself in a situation where that is my only option. Genesteslers are very flexible with the ability of the Broodlord to cast Dominion. They can pick and choose when to become fearless when necessary. Especially after going to ground to hold an objective or to prevent significant unit losses. This also will prevent a savvy opponent from approaching within 12" of them EVEN IF they have gone to ground.

I think after some soul searching, I've decided that a significant change to the list is for the better.

While most people seem to favor Mawlocs over dakkafexen, I've completely dropped the heavy support from the list. The most recent iteration is as follows:

Primary detachment
Dakkaflyrant with E grubs
Dakkaflyrant with E grubs

Venomthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

Broodlord with Scything talons
5 Genestealers
Broodlord with Scything talons
5 Genestealers

Skyblight Formation
Dakkaflyrant with E grubs
10 gargoyles
10 gargoyles
10 gargoyles
Harpy with TL Heavy Venom cannon
Harpy with TL Heavy Venom cannon
Hive Crone

Total 1750 points

Changes are due to addition of 2 more Warp Charges, another haywire opportunity, and saturation of FMCs. I decided that a Swoopinf MC is infinitely better than a Dakkafexen brood that'll rely on cover or FnP for survivability. It will take better planning as I am losing a scoring unit for a FMC that can't score when Swooping

Looks solid. I am still not sold in any way on Genestealers in this edition, but maybe you will be the person who can turn it around! Lots of psychic power there, which is good. The stuff you will probably have issues with will be the stuff EVERYONE has issues with who plays Der Bugz.

I like the biovores list, but think you only need 1 unit of 3. I'd drop the other two biovore units and use the points to mix it up with a mawloc or dakkafex. May need to slip a zoan or something in for synapse.