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Hi all,

I have seen similar posts for lots of other armies but not yet for GK so i wanted to try and launch it.
The aim will be to see the main changes to the army on a whole and to each specific unit and then see what new tactics/lists become available :
So i will start with the unit changes

1) HQ
- GM and Captains : they took a boost as they can now get BrB psychic powers for nothing lost
- Librarian : can take all psychic powers as well, can be lvl 3
- Brotherhood champion : even worse then before without his specific psychic power.
- inquisitors : can be even better, cheap HQ, cheap Warp Charge, can have a null rod or psycholum which can become usefull
- Draigo : much better then before with his new psychic powers, Draigowing can be nice again (with invisibility for instance)
- Coteaz : even better then before as he brings the cheapest WC in the game (henchmen psyker) as troops
- other inquisitors (Valeria and Karamasov) : still crappy
- Mordrak : still usefull for a full shunting list but that is about it.

2) Elites :
- purifiers : their new psychic power is really nice (awesome in some cases), in rhino with 2 psycanons they are really nice again as they can score, bring 2WC and psycanon which will still help to strip HP
- paladins : they lost their psychic power but can score (and potentially super score with Draigo), with some psychic power they become really solid (invisibility, a priest for save rerolls in CC...)
- assassins : the vindicare is about the same as before, good AT (harder to OS a vehicle but at least antigrav dont have a passive cover all the time anymore), the others are still bad
- techmarine : apart from grenade carry not really usefull
- henchmen : while shooting henchmen (servitors/jakiro with inquisitor for prescience/ignore cover in chimera/bastion) has taken a nerf, the psychers are not awesome

3) Troops
- strike squad : not much changed
- terminators : same, still bad (Thawn is good though)

4) Fast Attack
- Stormraven : buffed, it is a bit stronger, has no more limit on the numer of missile it can send in a turn and the missile will be better with more psykers
- interceptors : not much changed

5) Heavy support :
- purgators : not sure what their use is now as they dont even have their power anymore. They can bring lots of psycanon while scoring now though (so better then classic GKSS)
- Dreadknight : did not really change except that it will be able to receive more psychic buffs (invisible DK^^) and its MC opponents are weaker in CC (only 1A with smash)
- Dread with psyautocanons : still nice, brings a WC, can score, a bit more solid then before,
- Lanrd Raiders : more solid then before, and scoring

Anything i have missed?
I am not sure yet what kind of competitive lists we will see, i think that purif, henchmen with psykers and Draigowing will be there a lot

Everyone that had warp quake lost it, which is big.

Librarian + Mordrak combo is expensive but great in a shunt list. Tailor your psychic tree choice to your enemy and do what you like, where you like turn one. Must support with shunters!

yeah i forgot about the global changes :
- warp quake lost everywhere
- you cant launch your cc psychic powers (hammerhand, force) on the opposent turn (so you need to prepare for cc more then before)
- vehicles cant ignore crew shaken/stunned results like before
- no more FaQ on falchions (so i guess its +2A?) that would make paladins with falchions and a standard quite nice in cc (5A each...6A on the charge)

Without warp rift, the mordrak bomb's focus is a bit different now. The build will need to change to one based around a tough CC unit (buffed via libby powers) rather than a drop and eliminate unit. Might consider hammers on some of the ghosts now. The other use for it is a mobile army-buffing unit; with limited range on some of the powers the libby will be in a prime position to cast blessings on your nearby dreadknights and interceptors.

Remember we actually have battle brothers now, too. There's an interesting selection of ICs to put into the Mordrak unit and I'm seriously considering someone like Tiggy to fish for crazy Biomancy powers for some key unit.

Draigo, some paladins and Endurance would be crazy, although still too points inefficient to be competitive.

Lanlaorn wrote:
Remember we actually have battle brothers now, too. There's an interesting selection of ICs to put into the Mordrak unit and I'm seriously considering someone like Tiggy to fish for crazy Biomancy powers for some key unit.

Draigo, some paladins and Endurance would be crazy, although still too points inefficient to be competitive.

Tiggy, specifically, cannot do this for lack of the ability to deep strike.

Right, I meant Tiggy for the Draigostar or whatever. Mordrak could use some kind of melee monster I imagine.

Would Mindstrike Missiles be a solid counter to things like Seerstar, Beaststar or other psychic deathstars? 4 missiles should hopefully generate a good number of hits, and psi-shock just needs a hit, not a wound, to cause Perils, which then could only be avoided by FNP, completely bypassing Fortune. Granted you could wind up giving a model a 3++ for a turn, but I think it would be worth the risk. You couldn't target an invisible unit with the missiles, but hopefully with GK you'd have enough dispell dice to perhaps prevent that one from going off in the first place.

Just thinking of dropping Mindstrikes into a summoning farm makes me happy.

Mindstrike missles just became that much more valuable

Though I believe you can not take FNP against perils

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Mindstrike missles just became that much more valuable

Though I believe you can not take FNP against perils

In 6E it was in the FAQ that you could, in 7th it explicitly says you can take a FNP against wounds that don't allow saves of any kind and specifically uses Perils as an example of such a wound. There is also an exception to that rule that states you cannot take a FNP against strength D weapons or wounds that cause Instant Death.

Vindicare lost is ability to ignore LOS.

 undertow wrote:
Would Mindstrike Missiles be a solid counter to things like Seerstar, Beaststar or other psychic deathstars? 4 missiles should hopefully generate a good number of hits, and psi-shock just needs a hit, not a wound, to cause Perils, which then could only be avoided by FNP, completely bypassing Fortune. Granted you could wind up giving a model a 3++ for a turn, but I think it would be worth the risk. You couldn't target an invisible unit with the missiles, but hopefully with GK you'd have enough dispell dice to perhaps prevent that one from going off in the first place.

Just thinking of dropping Mindstrikes into a summoning farm makes me happy.

Why can't you target an invisible unit? Invisibility requires a 6 to hit, but that's it. Also, you can hit Flying Monstrous Creatures with Mindstrike Missiles, until GW FAQs it.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 undertow wrote:
Would Mindstrike Missiles be a solid counter to things like Seerstar, Beaststar or other psychic deathstars? 4 missiles should hopefully generate a good number of hits, and psi-shock just needs a hit, not a wound, to cause Perils, which then could only be avoided by FNP, completely bypassing Fortune. Granted you could wind up giving a model a 3++ for a turn, but I think it would be worth the risk. You couldn't target an invisible unit with the missiles, but hopefully with GK you'd have enough dispell dice to perhaps prevent that one from going off in the first place.

Just thinking of dropping Mindstrikes into a summoning farm makes me happy.

Why can't you target an invisible unit? Invisibility requires a 6 to hit, but that's it. Also, you can hit Flying Monstrous Creatures with Mindstrike Missiles, until GW FAQs it.

SJ

You cant fire blasts as snap shots

Youre missing the biggest change. Henchmen psykers can take brb powers, that means for 10 points I get a model that can manifest shriek and adds 1 WC to the pool. If you dont have a psyker in every henchman squad youre doing it wrong. (Also you can flat out a transport after manifesting a witchfire from a firepoint now.

Jakobokaj wrote:
Youre missing the biggest change. Henchmen psykers can take brb powers, that means for 10 points I get a model that can manifest shriek and adds 1 WC to the pool. If you dont have a psyker in every henchman squad youre doing it wrong. (Also you can flat out a transport after manifesting a witchfire from a firepoint now.

A 10 point model who has the change of manifesting a strength D power

sleekid wrote:

- Dreadknight : did not really change except that it will be able to receive more psychic buffs (invisible DK^^) and its MC opponents are weaker in CC (only 1A with smash)

Why are dreadknight MC opponents weaker? the DK is T6, most opposing MCs werent going to smash it anyway, as they are probably able to wound it on 4+ or something and which would have been better than halving their attacks to smash even in 6th.

What might change is walkers might become more powerful, as now nid and daemon MCs arent autokill vs walkers. If that happens, then having a DK around to counter walkers might be useful as they still pack native Str10.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 undertow wrote:
Would Mindstrike Missiles be a solid counter to things like Seerstar, Beaststar or other psychic deathstars? 4 missiles should hopefully generate a good number of hits, and psi-shock just needs a hit, not a wound, to cause Perils, which then could only be avoided by FNP, completely bypassing Fortune. Granted you could wind up giving a model a 3++ for a turn, but I think it would be worth the risk. You couldn't target an invisible unit with the missiles, but hopefully with GK you'd have enough dispell dice to perhaps prevent that one from going off in the first place.

Just thinking of dropping Mindstrikes into a summoning farm makes me happy.

Why can't you target an invisible unit? Invisibility requires a 6 to hit, but that's it. Also, you can hit Flying Monstrous Creatures with Mindstrike Missiles, until GW FAQs it.

SJ

You cant fire blasts as snap shots

you can if you have skyfire. At least until GW redoes their FAQs.

only at FMCs, not at Zooming Flyers.

 FinkleLord wrote:
Vindicare lost is ability to ignore LOS.

How come?

 pocketcanoe wrote:

 FinkleLord wrote:
Vindicare lost is ability to ignore LOS.

How come?

Because it isn't in the dex it was in the 6th edition FAQ. The 7th edition FAQ is pretty much empty besides the errata. One of the missing entries is the one for the Vindicare.

Super Newb wrote:

 pocketcanoe wrote:

 FinkleLord wrote:
Vindicare lost is ability to ignore LOS.

How come?

Because it isn't in the dex it was in the 6th edition FAQ. The 7th edition FAQ is pretty much empty besides the errata. One of the missing entries is the one for the Vindicare.

My digital codex still has that entry. Personally, I'd always check with my opponent, but I'd lean towards the old errata stand (unless updated in the new errata) and the old FAQs (which only clarified rules, and didn't change them) are still valid for rules that haven't changed. Ignoring all that is logical and valid, so as long as both parties agree, fine. There doesn't seem to be a general consensus though :(

Looks like the digital codexes will be updated in a month, so we'll see if the old errata stand. It'll be safer to assume about the old FAQs too then.

Play tested a few lower point games (normally around 1000) and so far I feel positive about our change. Granted my list making was for casual play and testing out the physic phase, BUT I feel confident enough to face most challenges. A silly list I used and actually had much success was the following:

Grand Master
-Psycannon
-Lvl 2 (just testing out the new powers)

Paladin x2
-Halberd
-Hammer

Solodin
-Hammer

Strike x5
-Psycannon
-Rhino

Strike x5
-Psycannon
-Rhino

Interceptor x5
-Psycannon

Interceptor x5
-Psycannon

Roughly 1000 points, might have missed some things.

But I faced almost all the dex's, except daemons and DE since we don't have any down here.

Curious what other people are running.

Got a 3rd DK for my army. I was running with Eldar allies for a while, but now I feel like I can go back to 100% GK.

Probably going to run some silly Draigostar combo with a Lib and/or Coteaz plus some DKs and Dreads, maybe a Stormraven.

I wouldn call the abiulity to roll on charts much of a boost... all those characters lost 2-3 useful powers for 2 random rolls on a table.

heck, the librarion used to get HH AND its rolls, now it just gets its rolls.

personally, I think purifiers are the only ones who got a boost psychic wize, ESP since novas are such a great counter to horde and INVIS stuff.

other then that, the whole book got nerfed pretty hard with the changes to powers,

but strats that were good before are still good for the most part,

just will have to deal with more perils, and our HH and force powers being dispelled and not going off as often.

Psycker henchmen got a huge boost though.

ummm... how? they have the same spell, are now BOP's, only contribute 1 MC per unit, but still the whole unit dies on perils...

 easysauce wrote:
ummm... how? they have the same spell, are now BOP's, only contribute 1 MC per unit, but still the whole unit dies on perils...

? Out of the loop?

They don't have the same spell. They roll on tables. 10 points, one guy, in each henchmen squad gives you a warp charge and a rolled power plus the primaris power. Lots of psychic shrieking then and of course the chance that one or two in the army gets the shrouding spell or even invisibility.

Why does the whole unit die on perils? The rule book states only the psycher or in the case of BoP 1 randomly determined model, in the case of 2 henchmen and a psycher only the psycher would die still leaving 2 scrubs left.

didnt see they were on the list for rolling on powers,

derp

they are ok now i guess, better then before certainly

 easysauce wrote:
didnt see they were on the list for rolling on powers,

derp

they are ok now i guess, better then before certainly

"Ok" is quite a understatment IMO. 10 points for a master level 1 psyker with 2 powers from some of the best psycic power tabels, and which are spamable, makes them great. 6 units of 3 henchmen with psyker in razorback with psyboltammo is 408 points. 12 units of objective secured and 12 warp charges. And a great warp charge generator for other psykers in the GK army.

Tyfus wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
didnt see they were on the list for rolling on powers,

derp

they are ok now i guess, better then before certainly

"Ok" is quite a understatment IMO. 10 points for a master level 1 psyker with 2 powers from some of the best psycic power tabels, and which are spamable, makes them great. 6 units of 3 henchmen with psyker in razorback with psyboltammo is 408 points. 12 units of objective secured and 12 warp charges. And a great warp charge generator for other psykers in the GK army.

I'm considering starting a GK army, what do people normally choose for the two other chumps? I haven't played a game with them yet, but so far in my list building I've been messing around with a 4 man group: 1 Psyker and 3 Servitors w/Heavy Bolters. It seems like a fair amount of shooting for cheap.

Also, Orbital Strike Relays, good idea or waste of points? The Psyk-Out Bomb seems like it would be nice against summoning farms or a bunched up seer council.

Depends, in a gun line army OSR aren't a bad choice, though in a shunt/in your face army they are useless.