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You'd think Grand Mastery would give OS, if only they'd faqd that to actually makes sense since everything scores now

Ah well

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
You'd think Grand Mastery would give OS, if only they'd faqd that to actually makes sense since everything scores now

Ah well

Grand Strategy straight from the codex: Unyielding Anvil - A key position must seized for victory to be won. The nominated units can claim objectives as if they were Troops.

That wording I would say that they have objective secured with a GM giving that to a unit.

Anyway, I have always been on the fence about whether purifiers are worth the cost. I know some people swear by them but the cost of them vs. a normal GKSS is a hard decision especially when I bring a lot less to the table but I also favor Interceptors which are my second favorite infantry unit after Terminators/Paladins.

Oh if they can claim "As Troops" per the wording, then it would give Objective Secured.

Purifiers are good, since they can take an extra heavy per 5 man and are Fearless with an Extra attack.

But not a fan of the HQ they have to take to be troops since he only gets set powers.

Though I've been playing around with mini Draigowings haha

Whats wrong with Crowe? I have never used him because I never had an interest in taking Purifiers as troops. I almost once converted but didn't.

How has Draigowing been fairing in 7th anyway? I know there was talk that they would make a come back with the new rules.

Still absurdly expensive, needs a lot to work, thats why I run a 5 man wing with a librarian

I run Draigo, 5x paladins with 2 hammers 3 halberds and 2 psycannons and a level 3 librarian as a mini star.


But draigo is a bit more durable now that he can run on divination to try to get precog.

Crow is an assault monster in still a shooty edition but i havent had much experience with him either personally

 Envihon wrote:
Whats wrong with Crowe? I have never used him because I never had an interest in taking Purifiers as troops. I almost once converted but didn't.

The problem with Crowe is he can't join other units and he can't deep strike or take a dedicated transport. He's good in assault but it is nearly impossible for him to reach assault on his own. The reason for taking him is to make Purifiers troops but by himself he's awful.

I'm going to try putting him on an Icarus Lascannon behind a Aegis Defense Line to see if he can get his points worth in by shooting down vehicles and flyers. The Defense line can be placed to give Rhinos a turn 1 cover save if going second or be placed to allow Crowe to hold an objective. Otherwise, I don't know what to do with Crowe other than possibly throwing him in a Stormraven to arrive late game with a turn 3 assault.

I see, well that really doesn't make it that tempting to put Purifiers in my army. I really abuse the hell out of deep strike.

Has anyone tried another Imperial faction to help out? AM or SM? How about some Space Wolves? Rune Priest with GK and a little fluff bending never hurt anyone..right?

I think crowe has SOME potential if you are taking him anyway to make purifiers troops.

Get an extra rhino somewhere and throw him in it, then run around with an extra cleansing flame.

 Leth wrote:
I think crowe has SOME potential if you are taking him anyway to make purifiers troops.

Get an extra rhino somewhere and throw him in it, then run around with an extra cleansing flame.

Purifiers always had something to be desired for me. They are probably one of the best anti-horde units but their lack of deep strike, relying on rhinos and then their cost is what always put me off about them and now that Cleansing Flame doesn't quite work how it used to still makes me function. Sure, you will still use Cleansing Flame right before you assault but the reliability is gone and that means you have to expend more to get force or hammerhand which means you will be tossing a lot of warp charges towards the purifiers way to make that assault worth it. To that is a lot of expense for just one unit to be effective. Would it help in those fights that have a daemon that will wreck your face? Yeah but it probably would have been better to shoot that daemon or let a DK handle it in CC.

 Envihon wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I think crowe has SOME potential if you are taking him anyway to make purifiers troops.

Get an extra rhino somewhere and throw him in it, then run around with an extra cleansing flame.

Purifiers always had something to be desired for me. They are probably one of the best anti-horde units but their lack of deep strike, relying on rhinos and then their cost is what always put me off about them and now that Cleansing Flame doesn't quite work how it used to still makes me function. Sure, you will still use Cleansing Flame right before you assault but the reliability is gone and that means you have to expend more to get force or hammerhand which means you will be tossing a lot of warp charges towards the purifiers way to make that assault worth it. To that is a lot of expense for just one unit to be effective. Would it help in those fights that have a daemon that will wreck your face? Yeah but it probably would have been better to shoot that daemon or let a DK handle it in CC.

And right there I think you have summed up why Crowe armies won't work so well this edition.

You know, something that's been mentioned once or twice I think was solodins. With psychic phase and warp charges being a lot more important now, do you guys see the value of solodins increasing as a result? Essentially, they serve as cheap Warp Charge batteries now, too.

 Envihon wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I think crowe has SOME potential if you are taking him anyway to make purifiers troops.

Get an extra rhino somewhere and throw him in it, then run around with an extra cleansing flame.

Purifiers always had something to be desired for me. They are probably one of the best anti-horde units but their lack of deep strike, relying on rhinos and then their cost is what always put me off about them and now that Cleansing Flame doesn't quite work how it used to still makes me function. Sure, you will still use Cleansing Flame right before you assault but the reliability is gone and that means you have to expend more to get force or hammerhand which means you will be tossing a lot of warp charges towards the purifiers way to make that assault worth it. To that is a lot of expense for just one unit to be effective. Would it help in those fights that have a daemon that will wreck your face? Yeah but it probably would have been better to shoot that daemon or let a DK handle it in CC.

Who said anything about assaulting with them?

Mobile cleaning fire combined with two psycannons out the top hatch? Thats a lot of damage output. With lots of dangerous things requireing snap fire, having a cleansing fire built in would be awesome as well as 8 snap firing psycannon shots.

Power it by buying hench squad with psyker and razorback and now you got 4 dedicated dice, and you can pull 1-2 from other sources every turn(like dreads). I think it offers serious potential. Crowe makes them objective secured, however I am thinking he is not worth the points or HQ slot.

50 points for a warp charge? Cheap ish, but no psyker cheap. Yes the units a bit more durable but, losing Holocaust on solodins hurt

 Leth wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I think crowe has SOME potential if you are taking him anyway to make purifiers troops.

Get an extra rhino somewhere and throw him in it, then run around with an extra cleansing flame.

Purifiers always had something to be desired for me. They are probably one of the best anti-horde units but their lack of deep strike, relying on rhinos and then their cost is what always put me off about them and now that Cleansing Flame doesn't quite work how it used to still makes me function. Sure, you will still use Cleansing Flame right before you assault but the reliability is gone and that means you have to expend more to get force or hammerhand which means you will be tossing a lot of warp charges towards the purifiers way to make that assault worth it. To that is a lot of expense for just one unit to be effective. Would it help in those fights that have a daemon that will wreck your face? Yeah but it probably would have been better to shoot that daemon or let a DK handle it in CC.

Who said anything about assaulting with them?

Mobile cleaning fire combined with two psycannons out the top hatch? Thats a lot of damage output. With lots of dangerous things requireing snap fire, having a cleansing fire built in would be awesome as well as 8 snap firing psycannon shots.

Power it by buying hench squad with psyker and razorback and now you got 4 dedicated dice, and you can pull 1-2 from other sources every turn(like dreads). I think it offers serious potential. Crowe makes them objective secured, however I am thinking he is not worth the points or HQ slot.

Even with the possibility of being able to use Cleansing Flame from a Rhino, the distance you need to be is 9". A Rhino firing Psycannons heading straight for an enemy will make that enemy pop it. This isn't a land raider that can be used in that way, this is a Rhino, they will turn and try and blow it up before you ever get that close to use Cleansing Flame from the top hatch. Cleansing Flame was clearly still designed to be a pre-assault move to help make the assault easier for the unit using them. This is why the best way to utilize it was to use it with a Librarian who can cast it before the group he is with can assault.

I posted this in Army Lists but I'll post it here for discussion too. This is an 1850 pt list with Crowe, Purifiers and a Knight Errant as an ally.

1 Castellan Crowe

5 Purifier Squad:
Psycannon x2
Halberd x1
Daemonhammer x1
Rhino

5 Purifier Squad:
Psycannon x2
Halberd x1
Daemonhammer x1
Rhino

5 Purifier Squad:
Psycannon x2
Halberd x1
Daemonhammer x1
Rhino

5 Purifier Squad:
Psycannon x2
Halberd x1
Daemonhammer x1
Rhino

1 Nemesis Dreadknight
Teleporter
Heavy Incinerator

1xNemesis Dreadknigh
Teleporter
Heavy Incinerator

Aegis Defense Line with Icarus Lascannon

Allies:

1 Knight Errant

Envihon is right that players would see Purifiers charging forward in a rhino and want to kill it asap... but IMO all GK units should be this way. In this list, everything is a turn 2 target priority. It will cause a shooty army havoc figuring out what to shoot first.

Getting a Rhino withing 9" of multiple units isn't too hard considering you can move the full 12" (21" threat range) and autohit 2d6 times with S5 AP4 ignore cover hits on EACH unit. If a rhino goes down then that is fine, the purifiers will lumber their way to the nearest objective and try to assault something while still giving warp charges to the other still mobile Purifiers.

Anyway, I hope this is a viable build for Crowe as I have yet to try it (buying a Knight Errant soon). I already have a shunt list and it works but I've grown tired of it.

 Envihon wrote:

 Leth wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I think crowe has SOME potential if you are taking him anyway to make purifiers troops.

Get an extra rhino somewhere and throw him in it, then run around with an extra cleansing flame.

Purifiers always had something to be desired for me. They are probably one of the best anti-horde units but their lack of deep strike, relying on rhinos and then their cost is what always put me off about them and now that Cleansing Flame doesn't quite work how it used to still makes me function. Sure, you will still use Cleansing Flame right before you assault but the reliability is gone and that means you have to expend more to get force or hammerhand which means you will be tossing a lot of warp charges towards the purifiers way to make that assault worth it. To that is a lot of expense for just one unit to be effective. Would it help in those fights that have a daemon that will wreck your face? Yeah but it probably would have been better to shoot that daemon or let a DK handle it in CC.

Who said anything about assaulting with them?

Mobile cleaning fire combined with two psycannons out the top hatch? Thats a lot of damage output. With lots of dangerous things requireing snap fire, having a cleansing fire built in would be awesome as well as 8 snap firing psycannon shots.

Power it by buying hench squad with psyker and razorback and now you got 4 dedicated dice, and you can pull 1-2 from other sources every turn(like dreads). I think it offers serious potential. Crowe makes them objective secured, however I am thinking he is not worth the points or HQ slot.

Even with the possibility of being able to use Cleansing Flame from a Rhino, the distance you need to be is 9". A Rhino firing Psycannons heading straight for an enemy will make that enemy pop it. This isn't a land raider that can be used in that way, this is a Rhino, they will turn and try and blow it up before you ever get that close to use Cleansing Flame from the top hatch. Cleansing Flame was clearly still designed to be a pre-assault move to help make the assault easier for the unit using them. This is why the best way to utilize it was to use it with a Librarian who can cast it before the group he is with can assault.

Depends on the rest of your army, Now would I be crazy bum rush with it? Nope, however with a 12 inch move and 9 inch range its got a decent threat bubble.

Combined with psycannons and generating two warp charges while also being able to hold their own in CC, I can see them being used. But I think we just are seeing it differently as I am slotting them into my list with lots of threats.

Also my main concerns are things like nurgle daemon princes and other things like invis, so anything that ignores that while doing a decent number of wounds is good in my book. However I have yet to try it so my experience will be limited

Put into that context and with the list above, I can see how it can work. I understand the thought behind the army especially if you have other things that will distract them from specifically going after the Purifiers. I finally had my first run in with Nurgle daemons, so that is also understandable. I will be curious if the Purifier spam would be viable again. I think it is highly interesting that a lot of these old builds that weren't considered good are having a mild come back as people try to see what 7th can bring.

 Envihon wrote:
Put into that context and with the list above, I can see how it can work. I understand the thought behind the army especially if you have other things that will distract them from specifically going after the Purifiers. I finally had my first run in with Nurgle daemons, so that is also understandable. I will be curious if the Purifier spam would be viable again. I think it is highly interesting that a lot of these old builds that weren't considered good are having a mild come back as people try to see what 7th can bring.

Yep, I am preparing for a lot of double cad tournaments with main Space Marines.

I will probably be taking purifiers in the elite slot so I can take coteaz and a hereticus inquisitor. 1-2 units of purifiers with 2 units of henchmen. I will have plenty of Ranged lascannons with tank hunters(sentinels) So I am really hurting for anti hordes and I think purifiers will really help with that, especially since I have worked banishers into my henchmen squads.

Combined with their preferred enemy against daemons I think purifiers have a lot of potential in the new meta.

BAO didn't allow double-CAD. Is that something we can expect as standard in the future?

Nevermind then lol. Just read that they are going single cad, single ally, as is nova.

Which means that EVERYONE is going to be going that route.

Well that means that my one unit of purifiers are going in the elite slot lol. Maybe I can combat squad and have a second unit hijack someone elses.

 Leth wrote:

Which means that EVERYONE is going to be going that route.

Yup, lol. The big ones set the trend.

 Leth wrote:
Nevermind then lol. Just read that they are going single cad, single ally, as is nova.

Which means that EVERYONE is going to be going that route.

Well that means that my one unit of purifiers are going in the elite slot lol. Maybe I can combat squad and have a second unit hijack someone elses.

Hey, but Self Ally is in.

BAO and NOVA definitely set the trend, and with one being two and the other three months into the new edition its going to stick. What is great is Mark and Reece's collaborative effort into coming up with unified army guidelines. The only difference is LOW. BAO says limited Yay, NOVA say Nay.

I am actually considering a kitted out Dreadknight in my allied detachment.

He is 260 points but he answers a lot of the problems I have. Then again for the purposes I need him for I can keep him pretty bare bones....ugh so many choices, not enough time to play test.

I am getting him in the mail tomorrow and have to get him assembled and painted to table top in a week.

One of the problems I am having is as someone said "prepare for the armies at the top tables". So I find myself focusing on eldar and daemons a lot. I think the dreadknight would be very nice for all the ID he can bring to the table to really scare off a lot of threats.

I'm not sure so much daemons. Eldar yes, but I'm thinking necrons and IG vehicle spam. MSU, lots of bodies, rhinos with 10 marines each in it.

The vehicle spam is especially worrying to me. With the amount of attention DKs draw and psyrifle dreadnoughts are good but not the best, GK are a bit limited on their anti-vehicle. As well, DK and dreadnoughts occupy the same slot if you are going battle forged unless you want to shell out the points for Venerable.

 Envihon wrote:
The vehicle spam is especially worrying to me. With the amount of attention DKs draw and psyrifle dreadnoughts are good but not the best, GK are a bit limited on their anti-vehicle. As well, DK and dreadnoughts occupy the same slot if you are going battle forged unless you want to shell out the points for Venerable.

Psyflemen deal with AV11-12 just fine, and Melta Henchmen can do the rest so as long as you set them up correctly. We managed it in 5th so we can handle it now.

Knight Errant. 36" Melta Large Blast. Just sayin'.

 Enigwolf wrote:
Knight Errant. 36" Melta Large Blast. Just sayin'.

Thats why I remodeled my Paladin as an Errant

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:
Knight Errant. 36" Melta Large Blast. Just sayin'.

Thats why I remodeled my Paladin as an Errant

Parking lots hate terrain-heavy boards, is what I've discovered. Traffic jams = perfect targets for Thermal Cannon shots.

You know, I have been trying to have an excuse to buy an Imperial Knight. I haven't even wanted one because of the power they bring to the table but because they look so darn cool. This is pushing me more and more that it probably will be my next purchase after I get my second DK.