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I had a game this week where I incorporated 12pt squads of 3 naked acolytes. I'm not sure if they're the cheapest unit in the game, but if you have coteaz anyway, they must be the cheapest superscoring unit.
Anyways, they just sat on the objectives in my deployment zone (out of LOS to avoid giving up First Blood too easily) and waited to see if their card came up (which it did), freeing up my army to get on with the game.
Of course they turn to vapour if the opponent looks at them sternly, but they scored 2 VP and turned a close game into a secure victory.
They died, but a 300 point unit had to take a turn out of their day to deal with each of them. If they hadn't, they would have scored an additional 2 VP.
During list building (and if you're using coteaz anyway) 24pts is enough to fulfil your troop requirement if you don't want to take strikes or termies.
I love these guys! Their benefits outweigh their costs by so much. They must be the best value unit in the codex.
Incidentally, if unbound is your thing, you could take 116 of these units in a 1500 pt list and still have enough left over to bring coteaz. Your opponent won't be able to deal with that many separate units. 'Course, they won't be killing much with their laspistols, but they'll score objectives for you! Lol.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/27 07:20:28
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The 3 psykers join centurionstar. Tiggy is usually a given invisibility. Next it's important to fish for gate. With servoskulls and 6 mystics you have a lot of option for secure gating around the table.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/27 08:45:21
Leth wrote: Any attempt to try and make a slightly offense based henchman squad is killed by that BS 3.....or mindlock.
Well if you are doing a mech list, and your Inquistor HQ has to go somewhere, why not give him 3 MM servitors to ride along with (and then cheap acolytes) ? 30 points for 3 guys with 3 MM ain't bad. I'm curious where else Coteaz would go if not in a vehicle...
As for acolyte 'spam' BS 3 is of course not as good as the BS4 of marines, but one could play 'Imperial Guard Lite' and run around with cheap henchmen squads inside chimeras or rhinos. Not the best thing in the world, but it is an option. Though if I were going to run a couple weenie henchmen squads in chimeras I would probably take plasma acolytes instead, for the range boost and rapid fire option. Though then they would only be good at hitting light transports...
Hard time justifying anything beyond a acolyte banisher and psyker at most.
Banisher doesn't help against most armies so that is out.
MarkCron wrote: Response to SuperNewb spoilered so the thread doesn't get off track.
Spoiler:
Super Newb wrote:
Dude! What is with you man? You’ve got three main problems:
1) Your attitude - you have the AUDACITY to say I need to use math hammer ‘properly’ (as if I didn’t), when you EMBARRASSINGLY trotted out the hopelessly vague and totally useless “sometimes it works!” defense earlier? You said absolutely NOTHING about numbers, or even rough probabilities earlier. I point this out and you get an attitude about it (instead of apologizing). That is WEAK SAUCE.
Firstly, you didn't use mathhammer properly. You said that the crusader would fail its saving throw 1/3 of the time, then leaped to the incorrect conclusion that because the Crusader was 4 time more expensive it wasn't worth it. You then used another logical leap to claim this quantified the "sometimes it works" comment. Also incorrectly.
But, I fixed that for you. There is a 19% chance that a crusader will get a 3+ on 4 consecutive dice (or will save 4 wounds over the game).
For EACH set of 4 wounds taken, there is a 19% chance that you will save them all. If only 3 wounds are taken 29% to save them all, 2 wounds 44%, 1 wound 66%. Assuming no cover, in all cases your proposed squad will take 100% of wounds. Following a single wound, there is a 33% chance your OS unit will run.
Now you have mathhammer (of a sort - huge number of variables still missing) to justify the "sometimes it works". Happy?
Super Newb wrote:2) Problem 2. The fact that your “ideal” squad idea is a points wasting bad plan, which no competitive player would agree with, nor would people like me who are semi-competitive at best, and
This is laughable. Unless you have double cad, you only have 6 troop slots. Lets assume for the sake of generosity that you have elected to entirely fill these slots with Henchbacks. The potential increase in survivability costs you 72 points. You can't use these points to add more troop units - your slots are filled. With the points, you could get a solodin, or an inquisitor. Neither of those is OS. You can spread the points for more bling. You could, instead, buy 18 more naked acolytes, which conveniently fits into the Henchbacks. However, excluding cover, your entire squad of now 6 still gets no saves, but the enemy has to score 2 wounds to make it run. It is now twice as hard to hide.
About the only thing weaker than a psyback I can think of is the side armour of a Chimera (which is actually stronger on the front) or anything DE. So your competitive/semi-competitive master plan is to put your entire maelstrom OS scoring capability into Henchbacks? At least put the henchmen into Chimeras (and face forward!!) so the Psyker and acolyte can shoot out of it.
Super Newb wrote:
Now, 1 doesn’t really concern me much, though I had to point out your bad attitude. 2 is where your argument completely and utterly falls apart. 2 is what I have not touched on much because well, you seem obsessed with defending your crusader idea which is 3). But even in this thread no one is agreeing with you on 2. Your idea is just not points efficient. It is wasteful. The tiny increase in survivability does not warrant the increase in points. Ditto for the **tiny** increase in offensive shooting capability.
Fair enough, I can live without meltaguns on the acolytes. Note, however, that *tiny* increase is around 20%, depending on range.
Super Newb wrote:Now onto 3. That at the points spent (note we shouldn’t be spending this much, but for 3 let’s assume you have to spend it) your “ideal” squad still falls short. A Crusader is only three times as durable as an acolyte (out in the open, with no cover, with AP5 weapons or better), but get this, it is almost 4 times as expensive Against AP5 or better weapons and assuming no cover, the Crusader has to save 4 wounds in order to be as points efficient as an acolyte. There is only a 20% chance of this. 3 times as durable, almost 4 times as expensive. That’s not overly efficient. If you have AP – weapons, or cover is involved the Crusader comes out even worseI deleted this, as you have no basis for comparing this. The chance of a crusader saving 4 wounds doesn't change if there is cover, because 3+ is more likely to save than 4+. I think you mean it is less points efficient because the acolyte has a saving throw?
I fixed your mathematical error and logical leap for you.
Yeah, that fact that you think a discussion of your "ideal" henchmen squad, otherwise known as the least ideal squad possible, is off track in a thread about GK tactics, says it all. You again just revealed to everyone incredibly bad judgment. Squad composition is off topic in a tactics thread? Um, wut?
I don't like spoilers, or your attitude, so I am not even going to look what you wrote inside the 'spoiler' tag. Good day and good riddance.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/27 13:23:00
Enigwolf wrote: Remember that ADLs with Aegis Guns are going to be far less common now, with the change in Interceptor+Skyfire rule now being that it can only snapshot ground targets. How many armies will take a 100-ish point fortification in the in-case they face off against a flyer (really, there are only ~4 armies with flyers that you would see in a competitive setting: Vendettas, Storm Ravens, Doom/Night Scythe, Heldrake)
Skyfire still works against skimmers right? I'm sure Wave Serpents, Devilfish and Annihilation Barges won't like an Icarus Lascannon around.
Tyfus wrote: What are people thinking of the 1850 armylist that team stomping ground just used in their latest video battlereports ?
Will struggle against some list. But seems pretty solid.
Neat idea! I wonder how it would fare against a 'rhino rush' list. Or a horde list. The deathstar is super powerful but it it only kills far less powerful and far less expensive units each term that's not good. So yeah definitely would struggle against some lists...
Leth wrote: Any attempt to try and make a slightly offense based henchman squad is killed by that BS 3.....or mindlock.
Well if you are doing a mech list, and your Inquistor HQ has to go somewhere, why not give him 3 MM servitors to ride along with (and then cheap acolytes) ? 30 points for 3 guys with 3 MM ain't bad. I'm curious where else Coteaz would go if not in a vehicle...
As for acolyte 'spam' BS 3 is of course not as good as the BS4 of marines, but one could play 'Imperial Guard Lite' and run around with cheap henchmen squads inside chimeras or rhinos. Not the best thing in the world, but it is an option. Though if I were going to run a couple weenie henchmen squads in chimeras I would probably take plasma acolytes instead, for the range boost and rapid fire option. Though then they would only be good at hitting light transports...
The problem is that the cost for an acolyte with a gun is just too high. For one acolyte with a melta I can almost get another squad. I will take a warp charge per turn thank you very much. The inquisitor could do so much more buffing other units, so that isnt an option either. The problem is that for the points there are much better things out there. God if only Jokaero were about 10-15 points cheaper I could justify them, but not right now.
Hard time justifying anything beyond a acolyte banisher and psyker at most.
Banisher doesn't help against most armies so that is out.
Actually the thing is about the banisher that for tournament play for the few points it costs the amount of benefit it provides is worth it, since one of the armies I am concerned about is daemons it shuts down their 2+ re-roll, or other defenses on a lot of their warlords so I think having 1-2 in a list is not a bad idea. It gives you options, also with summoning possibilities it might come up more often. Plus in a razorback you can move it next to one unit, fire everything, then flat out next to another unit that you might be assaulting that turn.
Zimko wrote:
Enigwolf wrote: Remember that ADLs with Aegis Guns are going to be far less common now, with the change in Interceptor+Skyfire rule now being that it can only snapshot ground targets. How many armies will take a 100-ish point fortification in the in-case they face off against a flyer (really, there are only ~4 armies with flyers that you would see in a competitive setting: Vendettas, Storm Ravens, Doom/Night Scythe, Heldrake)
Skyfire still works against skimmers right? I'm sure Wave Serpents, Devilfish and Annihilation Barges won't like an Icarus Lascannon around.
Wave serpents, Devilfish, etc arent really scared of a single icarus lascannon. They will just jink for a 3+ or better cover and just not care for that one unit. You need volume of fire across as many platforms as possible to get as many of them as you can to jink each turn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/27 13:45:04
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
Enigwolf wrote: Remember that ADLs with Aegis Guns are going to be far less common now, with the change in Interceptor+Skyfire rule now being that it can only snapshot ground targets. How many armies will take a 100-ish point fortification in the in-case they face off against a flyer (really, there are only ~4 armies with flyers that you would see in a competitive setting: Vendettas, Storm Ravens, Doom/Night Scythe, Heldrake)
Skyfire still works against skimmers right? I'm sure Wave Serpents, Devilfish and Annihilation Barges won't like an Icarus Lascannon around.
Icarus Lascannons weren't as points-effective as the autocannons in 6th ed, and certainly aren't now either.
In any case, anyone have any creative/stronger unit builds/stars now that we are BB with Armies of the Imperium? Like, idk, sticking a Draigowing in a Stormeagle Roc or something.
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Leth wrote: The problem is that the cost for an acolyte with a gun is just too high. For one acolyte with a melta I can almost get another squad. I will take a warp charge per turn thank you very much. The inquisitor could do so much more buffing other units, so that isnt an option either. The problem is that for the points there are much better things out there. God if only Jokaero were about 10-15 points cheaper I could justify them, but not right now.
Yeah no argument there. For very competitive play it is better to use those points to pay for two and a half acolytes elsewhere. And poor Jokaeros. I think they're hilarious and I do include one from time to time but I know they are definitely not points efficient.
Leth, what do you end up doing with the Inquisitor usually? Where do you put him?
Actually the thing is about the banisher that for tournament play for the few points it costs the amount of benefit it provides is worth it, since one of the armies I am concerned about is daemons it shuts down their 2+ re-roll, or other defenses on a lot of their warlords so I think having 1-2 in a list is not a bad idea. It gives you options, also with summoning possibilities it might come up more often. Plus in a razorback you can move it next to one unit, fire everything, then flat out next to another unit that you might be assaulting that turn.
Again, good points. I wonder though if spamming them is a good idea (as in including them in every henchmen squad you have). The points spent on them adds up real quick and is useless against many armies...
The Gate to Centfinity sounds awesome and hilarious. I did not realize you could gate out of CC. I imagine it working like Nightcrawler jumping around backstabbing people, but nightcrawler never had a two-legged tank suit!
Also much more powerful in 7th than I first thought since you can cast witchfire powers against several different units and then shoot & assault yet another unit.
Let them jink. A flyer/hover that jinks is a flyer/hover snap firing on their turn.
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
Leth, what do you end up doing with the Inquisitor usually? Where do you put him?
Again, good points. I wonder though if spamming them is a good idea (as in including them in every henchmen squad you have). The points spent on them adds up real quick and is useless against many armies...
I like to throw him with a deathcult squad. I have the psyker in the squad take (edit divination so he has a chance to get prescience off with them(as well as give me dat mandatory warp charge. Ideally I would want to take the inquisitor and most likely not both making him a caster and give him both the grenades(as well as take those sweet sweet servo skulls).
As to the banishers. I am only planning on taking 1, maybe 2 at most depending on size of the game. Its a small investment that could really swing a game.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/27 17:52:36
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
Leth, what do you end up doing with the Inquisitor usually? Where do you put him?
Again, good points. I wonder though if spamming them is a good idea (as in including them in every henchmen squad you have). The points spent on them adds up real quick and is useless against many armies...
I like to throw him with a deathcult squad. I have the psyker in the squad take telepathy so he has a chance to get prescience off with them(as well as give me dat mandatory warp charge. Ideally I would want to take the inquisitor and most likely not both making him a caster and give him both the grenades(as well as take those sweet sweet servo skulls).
As to the banishers. I am only planning on taking 1, maybe 2 at most depending on size of the game. Its a small investment that could really swing a game.
This. It's a 15 point investment that invalidates a bajillion point deathstar. Plus it's nice and fluffy. Although with sanctic powers reducing invuln saves, it's probably less important.
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Banisher. Has preferred enemy(daemons) and any daemon unit within 6 has to re-roll invul saves(remember this will be measured from the vehicle hull). Costs 3.5 acolytes and is a henchmen.
Leth, what do you end up doing with the Inquisitor usually? Where do you put him?
Again, good points. I wonder though if spamming them is a good idea (as in including them in every henchmen squad you have). The points spent on them adds up real quick and is useless against many armies...
I like to throw him with a deathcult squad. I have the psyker in the squad take telepathy so he has a chance to get prescience off with them(as well as give me dat mandatory warp charge. Ideally I would want to take the inquisitor and most likely not both making him a caster and give him both the grenades(as well as take those sweet sweet servo skulls).
As to the banishers. I am only planning on taking 1, maybe 2 at most depending on size of the game. Its a small investment that could really swing a game.
This. It's a 15 point investment that invalidates a bajillion point deathstar. Plus it's nice and fluffy. Although with sanctic powers reducing invuln saves, it's probably less important.
I will take a guaranteed thing any day(especially with the number of dice daemons have) as well as the fact that it can get range on a few units, and then can flat out to get to a different unit after I am done shooting one of them. Also no reason you cant reduce invul saves AND make them re-roll/cancel out re-roll
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/06/27 17:57:55
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
The 3 psykers join centurionstar. Tiggy is usually a given invisibility. Next it's important to fish for gate. With servoskulls and 6 mystics you have a lot of option for secure gating around the table.
Since I love the idea is this I looked at it again. Is this list legal? The ultramarine allies only have one troop instead of two unless I'm missing something
Anyway I wonder if a non-PT dread knight would help a list like that. Certainly could deep strike with ease.
There's nothing wrong with foot Knights. I used to run one and whereas the aid of the Teleporter is immense in a lot of situations, two foot Knights can work so as long as they are operating under a similarly paced list.
Yeah, that fact that you think a discussion of your "ideal" henchmen squad, otherwise known as the least ideal squad possible, is off track in a thread about GK tactics, says it all. You again just revealed to everyone incredibly bad judgment. Squad composition is off topic in a tactics thread? Um, wut?
Ok, fair point. As you can't be bothered to click on a spolier, wall of text follows. Please note that you are the one who started with the attitude, also note that your maths are wrong.
Super Newb wrote:
Dude! What is with you man? You’ve got three main problems:
1) Your attitude - you have the AUDACITY to say I need to use math hammer ‘properly’ (as if I didn’t), when you EMBARRASSINGLY trotted out the hopelessly vague and totally useless “sometimes it works!” defense earlier? You said absolutely NOTHING about numbers, or even rough probabilities earlier. I point this out and you get an attitude about it (instead of apologizing). That is WEAK SAUCE.
Firstly, you didn't use mathhammer properly. You said that the crusader would fail its saving throw 1/3 of the time, then leaped to the incorrect conclusion that because the Crusader was 4 time more expensive it wasn't worth it. You then used another logical leap to claim this quantified the "sometimes it works" comment. Also incorrectly.
But, I fixed that for you. There is a 19% chance that a crusader will get a 3+ on 4 consecutive dice (or will save 4 wounds over the game).
For EACH set of 4 wounds taken, there is a 19% chance that you will save them all. If only 3 wounds are taken 29% to save them all, 2 wounds 44%, 1 wound 66%. Assuming no cover, in all cases your proposed squad will take 100% of wounds. Following a single wound, there is a 33% chance your OS unit will run.
Now you have mathhammer (of a sort - huge number of variables still missing) to justify the "sometimes it works". Happy?
Super Newb wrote:2) Problem 2. The fact that your “ideal” squad idea is a points wasting bad plan, which no competitive player would agree with, nor would people like me who are semi-competitive at best, and
This is laughable. Unless you have double cad, you only have 6 troop slots. Lets assume for the sake of generosity that you have elected to entirely fill these slots with Henchbacks. The potential increase in survivability costs you 72 points. You can't use these points to add more troop units - your slots are filled. With the points, you could get a solodin, or an inquisitor. Neither of those is OS. You can spread the points for more bling. You could, instead, buy 18 more naked acolytes, which conveniently fits into the Henchbacks. However, excluding cover, your entire squad of now 6 still gets no saves, but the enemy has to score 2 wounds to make it run. It is now twice as hard to hide.
About the only thing weaker than a psyback I can think of is the side armour of a Chimera (which is actually stronger on the front) or anything DE. So your competitive/semi-competitive master plan is to put your entire maelstrom OS scoring capability into Henchbacks? At least put the henchmen into Chimeras (and face forward!!) so the Psyker and acolyte can shoot out of it.
Super Newb wrote:
Now, 1 doesn’t really concern me much, though I had to point out your bad attitude. 2 is where your argument completely and utterly falls apart. 2 is what I have not touched on much because well, you seem obsessed with defending your crusader idea which is 3). But even in this thread no one is agreeing with you on 2. Your idea is just not points efficient. It is wasteful. The tiny increase in survivability does not warrant the increase in points. Ditto for the **tiny** increase in offensive shooting capability.
Fair enough, I can live without meltaguns on the acolytes. Note, however, that *tiny* increase is around 20%, depending on range.
Super Newb wrote:Now onto 3. That at the points spent (note we shouldn’t be spending this much, but for 3 let’s assume you have to spend it) your “ideal” squad still falls short. A Crusader is only three times as durable as an acolyte (out in the open, with no cover, with AP5 weapons or better), but get this, it is almost 4 times as expensive Against AP5 or better weapons and assuming no cover, the Crusader has to save 4 wounds in order to be as points efficient as an acolyte. There is only a 20% chance of this. 3 times as durable, almost 4 times as expensive. That’s not overly efficient. If you have AP – weapons, or cover is involved the Crusader comes out even worseI deleted this, as you have no basis for comparing this. The chance of a crusader saving 4 wounds doesn't change if there is cover, because 3+ is more likely to save than 4+. I think you mean it is less points efficient because the acolyte has a saving throw?
I fixed your mathematical error and logical leap for you.
Just generally, I am a big fan of henchmen squads and also of Coteaz, because it opens up way more points to be used for more effective units in our Elite, FA or HS slots. This advantage is a two edged sword though.
Lets assume you take 6 henchbacks, to maximise your number of OS troops (henchmen) and DT (psybacks).
Now, consider these facts:
a) None of these units can glance a drop pod, let alone penetrate it. So, you just created a new hard counter to your maelstrom scoring ability. They put a drop pod within 3" of an objective and they can contest it for the whole game. Not to mention that whatever was in it is almost certain to be able to kill your troop. That means, in order to get rid of the drop pod, you have to devote a 100+ point units shooting (or assault) to kill it. If your entire Troop FOC can't kill a single drop pod, how effective can the rest of your list be when it is doing troop slot duties?
b) Over the course of a game, A single ghost ark with 5 warriors can take out your entire troop FOC, including the psybacks, by itself, and there is literally nothing you can do about it with your troops. So again, your elite units are being forced into the role of "troops".
c) 40k is a dice game. We can blather on about averages etc, but the reality is that unless you get to roll a dice at all, these odds don't kick in. So, in some instances, paying a point tax to be able to roll a dice at all enables something to happen. More importantly, it creates doubt in the mind of the opponent - "that squad *might* kill that drop pod" and so it forces a reaction or (hopefully) an overcommitment.
GK have a lot of challenges, Psychic got nerfed, a lot of our cool codex powers disappeared (particularly psychic barrage), we don't have a lot of dedicated, cheap AT in an edition where MSU is looking to come back. Plus our vehicles got the smallest advantage possible (and let's be realistic, rhino chassis vehicles aren't hard to stop).
I think in reality, everyone really should take Coteaz in a competitive list. But, as other posters have said, 3 acolytes walking has the same OS effect as a henchback and costs 12 points. The key is to make sure that the henchback squad is designed in such a way that it complements, not detracts from the rest of the list.
And, seriously consider Chimeras....Front 12 is excellent because it creates the same problem for the opponent that we have with drop pods. If you have enough of them, you can protect the side reasonably well, and the Psyker can witchfire (and the acolyte can shoot) out the firing points.
MarkCron wrote: Lets assume you take 6 henchbacks, to maximise your number of OS troops (henchmen) and DT (psybacks).
Now, consider these facts:
a) None of these units can glance a drop pod, let alone penetrate it. So, you just created a new hard counter to your maelstrom scoring ability. They put a drop pod within 3" of an objective and they can contest it for the whole game. Not to mention that whatever was in it is almost certain to be able to kill your troop. That means, in order to get rid of the drop pod, you have to devote a 100+ point units shooting (or assault) to kill it. If your entire Troop FOC can't kill a single drop pod, how effective can the rest of your list be when it is doing troop slot duties?
All else aside (and for the record I think ye are both acting like children), if this is your stance on things then I think you have the wrong idea about how 40k works and how to win the game. It's not the job of Troops to kill Troops, it's the job of whatever has the ability to deal with. Similarly, it's the job of the unit equipped to deal with a Drop Pod to kill a Drop Pod; trying to force a role onto a unit because of what slot it takes is a little bizarre. All slots really decide tactically is who is best to go for the objectives, and that is the role of Troops. Why do you need your Troops to kill Drop Pods when your Dreads can do it for them? Looking at units in a vacuum while also misallocating their ideal role will never lead to a good outcome.
For the record, the whole point in Henchmen is to keep the roles divided, so that your OS units are as cheap as possible so you can load up the rest of the list with the killy stuff like Purifiers and Dreadnoughts.
Lets assume you take 6 henchbacks, to maximise your number of OS troops (henchmen) and DT (psybacks).
Now, consider these facts:
a) None of these units can glance a drop pod, let alone penetrate it.
MarkCron wrote: Ok, fair point. As you can't be bothered to click on a spolier, wall of text follows. Please note that you are the one who started with the attitude, also note that your maths are wrong.
Wow, just wow. Apparently you don't understand what 'good day' or 'good riddance' means. I'm still not bothering with you chief. Good luck in life.
My bad, I usually forget the whole psybolt thing even in games
Godless-Mimicry wrote:
All else aside (and for the record I think ye are both acting like children), if this is your stance on things then I think you have the wrong idea about how 40k works and how to win the game. It's not the job of Troops to kill Troops, it's the job of whatever has the ability to deal with. Similarly, it's the job of the unit equipped to deal with a Drop Pod to kill a Drop Pod; trying to force a role onto a unit because of what slot it takes is a little bizarre. All slots really decide tactically is who is best to go for the objectives, and that is the role of Troops. Why do you need your Troops to kill Drop Pods when your Dreads can do it for them? Looking at units in a vacuum while also misallocating their ideal role will never lead to a good outcome.
For the record, the whole point in Henchmen is to keep the roles divided, so that your OS units are as cheap as possible so you can load up the rest of the list with the killy stuff like Purifiers and Dreadnoughts.
I think you've slightly misinterpreted what I said, or I didn't say it clearly. The point being debated was the benefit of putting a meltagun on an acolyte. My view is that a 10pt investment can be worthwhile, as it means that I don't have to move and dedicate psycannons to do the same job.
And, keeping OS units as cheap as possible is great, as long as they survive the game. If not, well, you are putting a greater load on your list, because non os units have to clear a 3" space to be able to claim it.
To add on to Godless-Mimicry, for the record, every time each of you prefaces your long-arse posts with a personal attack, I glaze and skip over the rest. And I'm quite sure that I'm not the only one.
I also think that at this point in time, each of us have our own very different and unable-to-be-reconciled viewpoints, which may be a result of our local metas, really. So can we agree to disagree, and return to the awesome tactics discussion we were having before?
I really want to know if anyone else is running any GK chars with BB units, or BB chars in GK units.
Click here for my Swap Shop post - I'm buying stuff! DR:90-S++G++M+B++I+Pw40kPbfg99#+D++A++/eWDR++T(T)DM+ Black Legion/Iron Warriors/Night Lords Inquisitorial Friends & Co. (Inq, GK, Elysians, Assassins) Elysian Droptroops, soon-to-add Armored Battlegroup Adeptus Mechanicus Forge World Lucius
My god man, you are crazy!
Black Legion/Iron Warriors/Night Lords 
Inquisitorial Friends & Co. (Inq, GK, Elysians, Assassins) 
Elysian Droptroops, soon-to-add Armored Battlegroup 
Adeptus Mechanicus Forge World Lucius
: 3000pts.
: 2000pts
6000+
2000
2000
6000+
4500+
1500+
500+ 
divination so he has a chance to get prescience off with them(as well as give me dat mandatory warp charge. Ideally I would want to take the inquisitor and most likely not both making him a caster and give him both the grenades(as well as take those sweet sweet servo skulls).
Wraithsight Corsairs - 2000pts
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
