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This, to me as a player is not an unclear rule, it is quite clear and easily understood.

You understand it as an interpretation. The number of threads about this topic, as well as people on this very thread voicing their own uncertainty over the issue, clearly show that it is not a clear cut issue.

Your argument is "The rulebook says witchfires must roll to hit"

The counter argument is: "Ok, how many dice should we roll?"

Your reply is"Errrm....the book doesn't say.....lets use 1. Yes, 1 is logical. I must be right."

Continuing as you are, preaching that you are correct, and that anyone who disagrees is closed minded, illogical and cheating for advantage really doesn't make for a convincing argument.

Zodiark wrote:
Except the roll isn't arbitrary, it is necessary.

I never said it was arbitrary...

You have to roll, there is no avoiding it.

Never argued otherwise on this point either.

Not rolling is flat out breaking the rules as the power itself does not state that you do not roll. The debate is how many.

Exactly. How many dice do you roll to hit for PS?

If you can show this with actual rules backing the issue would be solved. But there is no such rule, we are never given any direction on how many dice we need to roll to hit with PS.

This is where logic and reading comprehension comes into play. We can agree that Witchfire powers count as shooting attacks.

That is close enough, sure.

We can also agree that shooting attacks have a different number of shots depending on the weapon being used.

This is incorrect.

Shooting attacks have a different number of shots depending on the profile of the weapon being used. Subtle but important difference.

We also know that if we shoot with something and it does not state a number greater than 1, then we get one shot.

The rules do not actually state this. Can we see some actual rules backing next time?

So, we can deduce from RAW and simple logic that because PS, as a shooting attack that does not specify that it receives more than one shot, it only gets one.

Incorrect premise leads to incorrect conclusions like this one.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

This, to me as a player is not an unclear rule, it is quite clear and easily understood.

You understand it as an interpretation. The number of threads about this topic, as well as people on this very thread voicing their own uncertainty over the issue, clearly show that it is not a clear cut issue.

Your argument is "The rulebook says witchfires must roll to hit"

The counter argument is: "Ok, how many dice should we roll?"

Your reply is"Errrm....the book doesn't say.....lets use 1. Yes, 1 is logical. I must be right."

Continuing as you are, preaching that you are correct, and that anyone who disagrees is closed minded, illogical and cheating for advantage really doesn't make for a convincing argument.

Your final point. 1 is the obvious answer because a Psychic Shriek is a single attack in general. Looking outside the box for a second, if you know how. Lore wise, when a Psyker makes a Psychic Shriek, they are resolving a single attack, not multiples.

Direct quote from GW employee, a better source for a rule than those in a forum. "Psychic Shriek is a single shot with a multiple wound effect."

I will provide a number to someone who works for the company who can answer this for you as I am seriously tired of arguing with you people because none of you have proven anything that states the opposite.

Games Workshop, Tustin California. 714-731-3304 (apologies in advance for posting number, couldn't find anything stating I couldn't)

The exact answer you will receive is exactly what I have been saying this entire time, now seriously, work on your reading comprehension skills.

 pocketcanoe wrote:
Are there any other attacks or powers which require a roll to hit but don't explicitly say how many dice to roll?

All of the Focused Witchfire's do not have a profile either and do not say that they auto hit...

Would you guys argue that you need to roll to hit with Spontaneous Combustion from Pyromancy, or Crush from Telekenesis?

 DeathReaper wrote:

 pocketcanoe wrote:
Are there any other attacks or powers which require a roll to hit but don't explicitly say how many dice to roll?

All of the Focused Witchfire's do not have a profile either and do not say that they auto hit...

Would you guys argue that you need to roll to hit with Spontaneous Combustion from Pyromancy, or Crush from Telekenesis?

What do the cards say? What type of powers are they? Don't have the cards on hand or the book hence why I ask lol, but I think the answer is obvious, do what is on the card based on the rules on how to resolve in BRB

"Spontaneous Combustion is a focussed witchfire power with a range of 18". The target model suffers a Strength 6 AP3 hit with the Soul Blaze special rule. If the model is slain by this hit in the Psychic phase, centre the small blast marker over the target before removing him as a casualty. All other models under the marker suffer a Strength 5 AP4 hit with the Ignores Cover and Soul Blaze special rules." (Psychic Powers section, Pyromancy subsection, 3rd power).

the Focused Witchfire rules, in The Psychic Phase section state: "Some witchfire powers can pick out models in an enemy unit – these are called focussed witchfire powers. They follow all the normal rules for witchfire, but you can choose the specific model in the target unit that you want the power to affect. When the Psychic test is taken for focussed witchfire, pay close attention to the number of Warp Charge points harnessed. If the total number of Warp Charge points harnessed exceeds the Warp Charge cost required to manifest the psychic power, the power is resolved against the model you chose. If the cost to manifest the power is met, but not exceeded, resolve the power against the closest model in the target unit instead."

Nothing about rolling to hit there, but the FW's " follow all the normal rules for witchfire" which include rolling to hit.

How many dice do you roll to hit for Spontaneous Combustion?

 DeathReaper wrote:
"Spontaneous Combustion is a focussed witchfire power with a range of 18". The target model suffers a Strength 6 AP3 hit with the Soul Blaze special rule. If the model is slain by this hit in the Psychic phase, centre the small blast marker over the target before removing him as a casualty. All other models under the marker suffer a Strength 5 AP4 hit with the Ignores Cover and Soul Blaze special rules." (Psychic Powers section, Pyromancy subsection, 3rd power).

the Focused Witchfire rules, in The Psychic Phase section state: "Some witchfire powers can pick out models in an enemy unit – these are called focussed witchfire powers. They follow all the normal rules for witchfire, but you can choose the specific model in the target unit that you want the power to affect. When the Psychic test is taken for focussed witchfire, pay close attention to the number of Warp Charge points harnessed. If the total number of Warp Charge points harnessed exceeds the Warp Charge cost required to manifest the psychic power, the power is resolved against the model you chose. If the cost to manifest the power is met, but not exceeded, resolve the power against the closest model in the target unit instead."

Nothing about rolling to hit there, but the FW's " follow all the normal rules for witchfire" which include rolling to hit.

How many dice do you roll to hit for Spontaneous Combustion?

Single target, single hit, again, fairly obvious.

If you compare Psychic Shriek to Biomancy's Smite, it's quite clear that one of them has a weapon profile (that says Assault2), and one that does not.

So in the case of Smite, there are clear instructions on how to roll to hit: you treat it like you would any ranged weapon, but use additional steps (a Psychic Test and a DtW) in resolving the attack.

In the case of Shriek, it's much less clear, because it actually does not have a profile. All it has is a Range, with a Special Rule.

One side has rules that dont work, the other side makes up rules to cover the event.

Lol Zodiark. Still missing the point.

Find a requirement for a successful to-hit before you get to roll 3d6. I'm saying it again, in the hope you will spot I am NOT saying you do not need to roll to hut

Again: I agree you should roll to hit. This is not under contention.

What I do require you to answer and cite, and actual rules this time, is where the RESULT of the to hit matters.

Pages and para. Cite it. Not your "but logic and interpretation" gak that you keep insisting is both RAW and isn't raw, but paged and para

If you do not, your argument is voided. Nullified. It does not exist as a valid argument

Finally, stop saying most. I didn't play a single tournament in 6th where it rolled to hit, as everyone could work out, correctly, that while one is needed, it doesn't affect whether you actually resolve the rest of the power. That's 12 or so tournaments, each riling the same way. I get that is more than your sample. Yet I still won't claim it is the majority position, as I understand stats.

Zodiark wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
"Spontaneous Combustion is a focussed witchfire power with a range of 18". The target model suffers a Strength 6 AP3 hit with the Soul Blaze special rule. If the model is slain by this hit in the Psychic phase, centre the small blast marker over the target before removing him as a casualty. All other models under the marker suffer a Strength 5 AP4 hit with the Ignores Cover and Soul Blaze special rules." (Psychic Powers section, Pyromancy subsection, 3rd power).

the Focused Witchfire rules, in The Psychic Phase section state: "Some witchfire powers can pick out models in an enemy unit – these are called focussed witchfire powers. They follow all the normal rules for witchfire, but you can choose the specific model in the target unit that you want the power to affect. When the Psychic test is taken for focussed witchfire, pay close attention to the number of Warp Charge points harnessed. If the total number of Warp Charge points harnessed exceeds the Warp Charge cost required to manifest the psychic power, the power is resolved against the model you chose. If the cost to manifest the power is met, but not exceeded, resolve the power against the closest model in the target unit instead."

Nothing about rolling to hit there, but the FW's " follow all the normal rules for witchfire" which include rolling to hit.

How many dice do you roll to hit for Spontaneous Combustion?

Single target, single hit, again, fairly obvious.

What rules do you have to back up your assertation?

Also how about for Haemorrhage? That one can hit multiple models.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Lol Zodiark. Still missing the point.

Find a requirement for a successful to-hit before you get to roll 3d6. I'm saying it again, in the hope you will spot I am NOT saying you do not need to roll to hut

Again: I agree you should roll to hit. This is not under contention.

What I do require you to answer and cite, and actual rules this time, is where the RESULT of the to hit matters.

Pages and para. Cite it. Not your "but logic and interpretation" gak that you keep insisting is both RAW and isn't raw, but paged and para

If you do not, your argument is voided. Nullified. It does not exist as a valid argument

Finally, stop saying most. I didn't play a single tournament in 6th where it rolled to hit, as everyone could work out, correctly, that while one is needed, it doesn't affect whether you actually resolve the rest of the power. That's 12 or so tournaments, each riling the same way. I get that is more than your sample. Yet I still won't claim it is the majority position, as I understand stats.

You have no rules or facts to support your argument, you're done and I am done with you


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Zodiark wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
"Spontaneous Combustion is a focussed witchfire power with a range of 18". The target model suffers a Strength 6 AP3 hit with the Soul Blaze special rule. If the model is slain by this hit in the Psychic phase, centre the small blast marker over the target before removing him as a casualty. All other models under the marker suffer a Strength 5 AP4 hit with the Ignores Cover and Soul Blaze special rules." (Psychic Powers section, Pyromancy subsection, 3rd power).

the Focused Witchfire rules, in The Psychic Phase section state: "Some witchfire powers can pick out models in an enemy unit – these are called focussed witchfire powers. They follow all the normal rules for witchfire, but you can choose the specific model in the target unit that you want the power to affect. When the Psychic test is taken for focussed witchfire, pay close attention to the number of Warp Charge points harnessed. If the total number of Warp Charge points harnessed exceeds the Warp Charge cost required to manifest the psychic power, the power is resolved against the model you chose. If the cost to manifest the power is met, but not exceeded, resolve the power against the closest model in the target unit instead."

Nothing about rolling to hit there, but the FW's " follow all the normal rules for witchfire" which include rolling to hit.

How many dice do you roll to hit for Spontaneous Combustion?

Single target, single hit, again, fairly obvious.

What rules do you have to back up your assertation?

Also how about for Haemorrhage? That one can hit multiple models.

The rules for Focused Witchfire clearly states as you posted that they follow the normal rules for witchfire which follows the rules for shooting attacks. As has been stated numerous times, hell I've even put you in contact with people who can tell you the same answer, employees of the company, those who enforce the rules at the shop if any disputes happen yet still you try and argue the point. You're done, you have provided no facts to support your position.

Play it how you want in your own place but you no longer have a leg to stand on when telling others how to play when you blatantly discount people who present to you a WIDELY and GW accepted position.

Good day sir, may the dice ever roll in your favor.

Zodiark wrote:
The rules for Focused Witchfire clearly states as you posted that they follow the normal rules for witchfire which follows the rules for shooting attacks. As has been stated numerous times, hell I've even put you in contact with people who can tell you the same answer, employees of the company, those who enforce the rules at the shop if any disputes happen yet still you try and argue the point. You're done, you have provided no facts to support your position.

Play it how you want in your own place but you no longer have a leg to stand on when telling others how to play when you blatantly discount people who present to you a WIDELY and GW accepted position.

Good day sir, may the dice ever roll in your favor.

I e-mailed them, they gave me a completely different answer...

So they are not reliable at all to solve rules questions.

Please tell me where the rules are that say you need a successful to hit roll to resolve Psychic Shriek, or any of the focused witchfire powers. I am still waiting on the citation of actual rules that says this. You have not answered this question.

Why do you arbitrarily assign one die to roll to hit with Psychic Shriek?

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
How do you guys have the energy to argue this when the intent is clear as day?

Because (a) we're discussing the rules, not intent and (b) the intent is clear as day to some people that you do roll to hit and if you hit it does nothing, while the intent is clear as day to other people that you do not roll to hit.

Okay, I need a show of hands here. Who actually thinks that a successful manifestation of a Witchfire was not intended to be dependant on the roll to hit that the rules tell you to make?

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
How do you guys have the energy to argue this when the intent is clear as day?

Because (a) we're discussing the rules, not intent and (b) the intent is clear as day to some people that you do roll to hit and if you hit it does nothing, while the intent is clear as day to other people that you do not roll to hit.

Okay, I need a show of hands here. Who actually thinks that a successful manifestation of a Witchfire was not intended to be dependant on the roll to hit that the rules tell you to make?

If it has a profile then the witchfire is dependent on the to hit roll(s).

If it does not have a profile the roll to hit does not matter as we are not told how many dice to roll to hit.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
The rules for Focused Witchfire clearly states as you posted that they follow the normal rules for witchfire which follows the rules for shooting attacks. As has been stated numerous times, hell I've even put you in contact with people who can tell you the same answer, employees of the company, those who enforce the rules at the shop if any disputes happen yet still you try and argue the point. You're done, you have provided no facts to support your position.

Play it how you want in your own place but you no longer have a leg to stand on when telling others how to play when you blatantly discount people who present to you a WIDELY and GW accepted position.

Good day sir, may the dice ever roll in your favor.

I e-mailed them, they gave me a completely different answer...

So they are not reliable at all to solve rules questions.

Please tell me where the rules are that say you need a successful to hit roll to resolve Psychic Shriek, or any of the focused witchfire powers. I am still waiting on the citation of actual rules that says this.

E-mails are unreliable according to YMDC.

I gave you a number to speak to an actual person, not a crackpot customer service rep who simply sells you stuff. You can even have this person put you in contact with other GW workers and they'll give you the same answer.

Reading comprehension is clearly not your strong suit either. It is implied when rolling to hit that you need to be successful to hit, otherwise it would be stated otherwise.

I am waiting for a citation, any citation from any position from your side of this discussion that supports anything you have mentioned. So far, a handful of people, including myself have referenced numerous things and even provided examples, you simply choose not to accept them as valid as they are "vague" or "subject to interpretation"

This is YMDC. When you get right down to it, its a place to discuss homebrew rules, not facts, which makes me arguing here pointless as to me, this is clear as day.

But to people like you this is a place to search for facts which is entirely the opposite of this place if you look at the tenets.

We are theory crafting here, not discussing facts, at least you aren't.

You are looking for something specific because you lack the understanding to see a direct answer when it is right in front of you.

Now please, either play it as you want at home or buck up, call an actual employee who works at a shop and not corporate office and have them give you the answer that I know they will.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
The rules for Focused Witchfire clearly states as you posted that they follow the normal rules for witchfire which follows the rules for shooting attacks. As has been stated numerous times, hell I've even put you in contact with people who can tell you the same answer, employees of the company, those who enforce the rules at the shop if any disputes happen yet still you try and argue the point. You're done, you have provided no facts to support your position.

Play it how you want in your own place but you no longer have a leg to stand on when telling others how to play when you blatantly discount people who present to you a WIDELY and GW accepted position.

Good day sir, may the dice ever roll in your favor.

I e-mailed them, they gave me a completely different answer...

So they are not reliable at all to solve rules questions.

Please tell me where the rules are that say you need a successful to hit roll to resolve Psychic Shriek, or any of the focused witchfire powers. I am still waiting on the citation of actual rules that says this. You have not answered this question.

Why do you arbitrarily assign one die to roll to hit with Psychic Shriek?

Not arbitrary, this is what I was told by the GW shop worker and every player at the place when I brought it up. PS is considered a single shot, multiple wound power. You get one dice. Call the number I provided or stop beating a dead horse. You have no facts or basis for any argument anymore so you're just wasting time


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
How do you guys have the energy to argue this when the intent is clear as day?

Because (a) we're discussing the rules, not intent and (b) the intent is clear as day to some people that you do roll to hit and if you hit it does nothing, while the intent is clear as day to other people that you do not roll to hit.

Okay, I need a show of hands here. Who actually thinks that a successful manifestation of a Witchfire was not intended to be dependant on the roll to hit that the rules tell you to make?

If it has a profile then the witchfire is dependent on the to hit roll(s).

If it does not have a profile the roll to hit does not matter as we are not told how many dice to roll to hit.

2nd assertion is false. It still counts as a shooting attack and you roll to hit unless told otherwise. These are the RAW. Read them, learn them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
How do you guys have the energy to argue this when the intent is clear as day?

Because (a) we're discussing the rules, not intent and (b) the intent is clear as day to some people that you do roll to hit and if you hit it does nothing, while the intent is clear as day to other people that you do not roll to hit.

Okay, I need a show of hands here. Who actually thinks that a successful manifestation of a Witchfire was not intended to be dependant on the roll to hit that the rules tell you to make?

Considering it's a shooting attack, it is entirely dependent on a roll to hit.

Zodiark wrote:
E-mails are unreliable according to YMDC.

Then why did you say this:

Zodiark wrote:
hell I've even put you in contact with people who can tell you the same answer, employees of the company, those who enforce the rules at the shop if any disputes happen yet still you try and argue the point. You're done, you have provided no facts to support your position.

Zodiark wrote:

Not arbitrary, this is what I was told by the GW shop worker and every player at the place when I brought it up. PS is considered a single shot, multiple wound power. You get one dice. Call the number I provided or stop beating a dead horse. You have no facts or basis for any argument anymore so you're just wasting time

So nothing from the actual rules then? just some appeal to authority logical fallacy?

I also called GW, I got a different answer...

Zodiark wrote:
It still counts as a shooting attack and you roll to hit unless told otherwise. These are the RAW. Read them, learn them.

Right it needs a roll to hit, I will roll 100 dice to hit, you roll 1, both numbers are fabricated out of thin air.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
How do you guys have the energy to argue this when the intent is clear as day?

Because (a) we're discussing the rules, not intent and (b) the intent is clear as day to some people that you do roll to hit and if you hit it does nothing, while the intent is clear as day to other people that you do not roll to hit.

Okay, I need a show of hands here. Who actually thinks that a successful manifestation of a Witchfire was not intended to be dependant on the roll to hit that the rules tell you to make?

If it has a profile then the witchfire is dependent on the to hit roll(s).

If it does not have a profile the roll to hit does not matter as we are not told how many dice to roll to hit.

"a witchfire power must roll To Hit"
Is there some sort of specific exception to this that I am missing? I think RAW you cant get by that. Now is there any RAW to support that the roll is connected to the resolution? I cant find it, but given that they are telling us we must roll for all witchfires, I think we can assume they intended the rolls to mean something, even for powers without a profile.

 DeathReaper wrote:

If it does not have a profile the roll to hit does not matter as we are not told how many dice to roll to hit.

You have a citation for this? That sounds like a house rule used to fill a hole in the RAW.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Zodiark wrote:
E-mails are unreliable according to YMDC.

Then why did you say this:

Zodiark wrote:
hell I've even put you in contact with people who can tell you the same answer, employees of the company, those who enforce the rules at the shop if any disputes happen yet still you try and argue the point. You're done, you have provided no facts to support your position.

Earlier in the thread I provided a telephone number to a GW shop that I frequent where the rules were told to me. I was debating on putting the other 3 GW shops near me I frequent as well but I figured this would be redundant as one is more than enough to prove my point.

BRB/FAQ, primary sources for all rules question, after this it goes GW employees, judges, shop owners, players. Seeing as none of you are anything more than players and are using your own opinions, I refer to the shop owners and above because a player is just a player.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dracos wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

If it does not have a profile the roll to hit does not matter as we are not told how many dice to roll to hit.

You have a citation for this? That sounds like a house rule used to fill a hole in the RAW.

That is exactly what it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
How do you guys have the energy to argue this when the intent is clear as day?

Because (a) we're discussing the rules, not intent and (b) the intent is clear as day to some people that you do roll to hit and if you hit it does nothing, while the intent is clear as day to other people that you do not roll to hit.

Okay, I need a show of hands here. Who actually thinks that a successful manifestation of a Witchfire was not intended to be dependant on the roll to hit that the rules tell you to make?

If it has a profile then the witchfire is dependent on the to hit roll(s).

If it does not have a profile the roll to hit does not matter as we are not told how many dice to roll to hit.

"a witchfire power must roll To Hit"
Is there some sort of specific exception to this that I am missing? I think RAW you cant get by that. Now is there any RAW to support that the roll is connected to the resolution? I cant find it, but given that they are telling us we must roll for all witchfires, I think we can assume they intended the rolls to mean something, even for powers without a profile.

You are indeed correct. They intended for us to roll and resolve as required for shooting attacks.

 extremefreak17 wrote:
"a witchfire power must roll To Hit"
Is there some sort of specific exception to this that I am missing? I think RAW you cant get by that. Now is there any RAW to support that the roll is connected to the resolution? I cant find it, but given that they are telling us we must roll for all witchfires, I think we can assume they intended the rolls to mean something, even for powers without a profile.

(Emphasis mine)

No good comes from assuming when talking about RAW.

Stop quoting GW reps. It is against forum rules, and no one trusts your account of it. Stop please.

 Dracos wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

If it does not have a profile the roll to hit does not matter as we are not told how many dice to roll to hit.

You have a citation for this? That sounds like a house rule used to fill a hole in the RAW.

We are not told how many dice to roll to hit. is not a house rule...

But your assertion that the roll therefore does not matter is...

 Dracos wrote:
Stop quoting GW reps. It is against forum rules, and no one trusts your account of it. Stop please.

At this point, I'm okay with doing it because the theory crafting and constant arguing with this topic which has gone on for years simply is not working. We need an actual source of authority and the only ones that matter are BRB and GW employees. Players telling players how rules should be done as if they were experts without any viable sources is simply not viable.

Also, rules state e-mails which can be fabricated. Phone calls to a GW shop with an actual employee who enforces rules when people play there does not violate


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dracos wrote:
But your assertion that the roll therefore does not matter is...

He doesn't see the distinction

 Dracos wrote:
But your assertion that the roll therefore does not matter is...

Not at all.

The power does not have a profile. If it did then a roll to hot would matter because if it were assault 1, we know from the weapon rules that a successful hit matters.

Psychic shriek, or indeed any focused witchfire powers are not dependent on the roll to hit because they do not have a profile. We are instructed to resolve the effects of the power according to the instructions in its entry. Psychic Shriek does not mention a to hit roll, so we ignore it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zodiark wrote:
Also, rules state e-mails which can be fabricated. Phone calls to a GW shop with an actual employee who enforces rules when people play there does not violate

I also called, the person on the phone said it does not require a successful to hit roll.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Dracos wrote:
But your assertion that the roll therefore does not matter is...

Not at all.

The power does not have a profile. If it did then a roll to hot would matter because if it were assault 1, we know from the weapon rules that a successful hit matters.

Psychic shriek, or indeed any focused witchfire powers are not dependent on the roll to hit because they do not have a profile. We are instructed to resolve the effects of the power according to the instructions in its entry. Psychic Shriek does not mention a to hit roll, so we ignore it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zodiark wrote:
Also, rules state e-mails which can be fabricated. Phone calls to a GW shop with an actual employee who enforces rules when people play there does not violate

I also called, the person on the phone said it does not require a successful to hit roll.

Location and number for shop please, I'll verify myself

I provided my shops info for everyone to call and get an answer, only fair you do the same

Zodiark - so when asked to prove your assertions, you dissemble?

Very convincing.

You cannot prove that a successful to-hit is required before you resolve the rest of the power. You have been asked for an actual rule, and all you can point to is a blackshirt. Well, I know five, all say you're wrong. So I guess you're wrong.oh wait, they aren't a valid source for YMDC, as they are a) unreliable and b) there to just sell you stuff and lastly c) generally know the actual rules very poorly, as they have little chance to play. I know this first hand, I suspect you do not

Stop using these as anything for an argument, as they're useless. Utterly, 100% useless as a source for rules

You have no rules argument. You are now simply trolling, as you cannot follow rule one, you cannot cite an acceptable source, and have yet to back up your assertions with anything resembling a cogent argument. You have, by dint of failing to come up with a single pertinent rules quote, conceded.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Dracos wrote:
But your assertion that the roll therefore does not matter is...

Not at all.

The power does not have a profile. If it did then a roll to hot would matter because if it were assault 1, we know from the weapon rules that a successful hit matters.

Psychic shriek, or indeed any focused witchfire powers are not dependent on the roll to hit because they do not have a profile. We are instructed to resolve the effects of the power according to the instructions in its entry. Psychic Shriek does not mention a to hit roll, so we ignore it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zodiark wrote:
Also, rules state e-mails which can be fabricated. Phone calls to a GW shop with an actual employee who enforces rules when people play there does not violate

I also called, the person on the phone said it does not require a successful to hit roll.

Psychic Shriek itself doesn't, but it is a witchfire so you must as per witchfire rules, there is no legitimate way to avoid it?

Zodiark wrote:
Location and number for shop please, I'll verify myself

I provided my shops info for everyone to call and get an answer, only fair you do the same

I called GW customer service, their number is 1-800-394-4263


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zodiark wrote:
Psychic Shriek itself doesn't, but it is a witchfire so you must as per witchfire rules, there is no legitimate way to avoid it?

Why did you contradict yourself?