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If you're going to have Fake Stretch Goals, you've got to be better at hiding them!

 Alpharius wrote:
If you're going to have Fake Stretch Goals, you've got to be better at hiding them!

If your going to have fake stretch goals you better be sure you meet them.

I guess they're also suffering from Soda Pop having been at Denver Comic Con this weekend

so the people able to post stuff and make decisions about whether they need to change things will have been unable to sit on the KS all day,

I wonder what they'll do when they get back

Speaking of fake stretch goals...

Reading the comments the other day, it sounded like they had put up a picture of the game with a bunch of unlocked stretch goals. Freebie ones that were going to be included, if I read everything correctly.

Did anyone see it/ get a chance to save the picture?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/510580564/bunnies-vs-zombies/posts

Project canceled - as of a half hour ago. Seems a bit premature to me - but here's what they have to say:

Ninja Division is looking forward to the prospect of creating a dynamic board game that puts Bunny Heroes against the Zombie Horde. We feel there is an opportunity to expand the content of this game and create an animated play experience.

Because of this, we are going to put this current campaign on pause and come back at a later date. There is a lot going on here at Ninja Division and we want to be able to have a fun IP. Bunnies vs Zombies is an exciting product that we are looking to build and grow, but the time for that may not be now.

All the support we received on this campaign has been awesome. We appreciated all the backers comments and feedback. The apocalypse has not come yet for Bunnies vs Zombies and we will stock up on carrots and ammo. Watch our website and media outlets for more updates on this game.

Thank you,

Ninja Division

-Letter from the Creator- (spoilered because it's long)

That's probably for the best.

In an ideal world, they'd get SDE out to their backers and then worry about starting this- sure they aren't exactly the same company, but there's probably a bit of overlap in people working at Soda Pop and Ninja Division (as well as backers and followers of both companies' properties) that having that out of the way, as well as Relic Knights finally finished, they can show the world their products are worth backing.

Plus I feared that Zombicide would eat a serious chunk of their potential backers when that started.

Well, they are essentially the same company, so it's probably for the best if they stop putting their hands out for money and start fulfilling on a project, or even - hey, get this - maybe more than 1 project? As others have said, cutting stuff out of the real box in order to recycle them into fake stretch goals is cynical at best and dishonest at worst, depending on your point of view. It's very much a good thing from the consumers' point of view to see a fail here, so that other companies who watch these things closely see that this doesn't really fly.

 Azazelx wrote:
As others have said, cutting stuff out of the real box in order to recycle them into fake stretch goals is done by absolutely everyone. It's very much a good thing from the consumers' point of view to see a fail here, so that other companies who watch these things closely will change absolutely nothing.

Fixed that for you

Really, every game I've ever seen on KS where the first few stretch goals were things like "add x amount of mini that's already in the box" or "upgrade to plastic tokens" or whatnot were pretty clearly planned from the get-go.

It doesn't really bother me that companies pad their totals a bit like that - as long as real stretch goals are forthcoming afterwards. I also don't think it has much to do with Bunnies vs. Zombies failing, either. Though I also think with a little rejiggering - the game could have absolutely funded and then some. But I can see why they'd rather start fresh than throw in more freebies/whanot and shoot for a modest $75k -100k.

While 'fake' stretch goals may seem annoying I'm certain some of them are not actually fake

In order to ensure they fund (and thus attract more backers who don't have to worry about if the project is going to happen) companies set a low funding target, but that means they can't actually afford to produce the ideal 'full game'

So initially all you'd get is a cut down version, so the apparently fake stretch goals to add stuff you'd expect back into the box are real.... money they need to put something into the box

Even time based stretch goals (eg Friday 13th) are not nessesarily a bad thing as they can help push a project along.... look at how many people think a project is in crisis as soon as the money coming in slows down or heaven forbid stops,

sentiment that can cause them to pull out, having stuff you can add in if and when needed helps combat this

Schmapdi wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
As others have said, cutting stuff out of the real box in order to recycle them into fake stretch goals is done by absolutely everyone. It's very much a good thing from the consumers' point of view to see a fail here, so that other companies who watch these things closely will change absolutely nothing.

Fixed that for you

Really, every game I've ever seen on KS where the first few stretch goals were things like "add x amount of mini that's already in the box" or "upgrade to plastic tokens" or whatnot were pretty clearly planned from the get-go.

It doesn't really bother me that companies pad their totals a bit like that - as long as real stretch goals are forthcoming afterwards. I also don't think it has much to do with Bunnies vs. Zombies failing, either. Though I also think with a little rejiggering - the game could have absolutely funded and then some. But I can see why they'd rather start fresh than throw in more freebies/whanot and shoot for a modest $75k -100k.

FTFY is a bit of a no-no here on Dakka Dakka.

As for this Kickstarter, I'm not surprised this one got pulled.

Z3 is looming large, ready to eat its lunch.

The whole CMON vs. Soda Ninja thing was getting a bit weird too...

I was actually kinda looking forward to Z3 launching and watching what happened to the BvZ pledge total in response. It would have been very interesting, from an academic standpoint.

 Azazelx wrote:
I was actually kinda looking forward to Z3 launching and watching what happened to the BvZ pledge total in response. It would have been very interesting, from an academic standpoint.

It would certainly have been interesting, that's for sure.

I'm really surprised it didn't fund, though. I think no Gameplay footage really hurt.

And goodness, If I could ask them change anything, it would be that player board. It makes me feel old to say this, but it hurt my eyes to look at.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
I was actually kinda looking forward to Z3 launching and watching what happened to the BvZ pledge total in response. It would have been very interesting, from an academic standpoint.

It would certainly have been interesting, that's for sure.

I'm really surprised it didn't fund, though. I think no Gameplay footage really hurt.

And goodness, If I could ask them change anything, it would be that player board. It makes me feel old to say this, but it hurt my eyes to look at.

Ha!

Me too - but then, I am old!

Join us...

I am 31 today. Thats old, right ?

the game board looked like a SNES game map.

Tis a shame they had to noose it. It is best.

Flooded KS market right now.

in the past 3-4 months there have been a ton of KS, more than normal. quite a few failed, a number of them barely making their funding goal.

next few months there are several big ones.

Infamy Miniature's steampunk miniatures (July)
Z3 (late June)
Twisted by demented games (Est. Aug.)
Ron and Bones (I was told late summer)

...and Dwarf King's Hold
...and the supposed Myth expansions....
...and War Prime, which seems like it's "primed" for the next few months....
...and Minion's hard plastic goblinoids, undead, and lizards, but that might be getting pushed back....

I say January and February are prime months, as I don't remember a whole lot of heavy hitters dropping around that time.

I need to stay out of the kick-starter field. I'll never paint and use just what I have, not to mention whats incoming. Miniatures KS seem to be a new one every bleeding week. Bunnies vs zombies was just one more untouched set of plastic and cardboard I could do without.

yeah, I really need to slow down and be wise which I back. Majority of the minis I got from KS have not been painted let alone played.

Got rid of most of my sedition wars. I have a box of either hell dorado or free blades unopened under my desk right now

Or maybe its the box of Empire of the Dead. With so little gaming time, and so little hobby time I wonder why I keep on chucking so much money at games I know I will never get heavily involved with rather than just using the money to better my experience with current games. Like better terrain for infinity. Or actually finishing my arena for Arena Rex. I spent over 200 bucks on materials for it and it all went into a box.

Then there is the Dark Potential minis from Mini war gaming (what a waste that was). Relic Knights, Wreck Age, Myth, sails of glory, wrath of kings probably a few others, don't remember. Still waiting on several others, like kingdom death and arena rex.

Thus far, of all the KS, Zombicide has been the only great one. Granted it's a board game, but it the only game I can say that has had north of 100 plays and my group has play ever single scenario offered.

Everything else that I have received has been meh or dead dog s#!t.

I have an upcoming reminder to warn me of too many ks ventures, particularly of restic that will sit next to my computer.

I think the only KS I regret not backing is Dark Lands, as there seems to be quality involved.

Was interested in baking the war throne IGG project, but didn't, I was told I was better off. Their terrible communication and uncouth behavior more or less confirms that.

 cincydooley wrote:
I am 31 today. Thats old, right ?

No, it isn't.

It isn't even close!

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
...and Dwarf King's Hold
...and the supposed Myth expansions....
...and War Prime, which seems like it's "primed" for the next few months....
...and Minion's hard plastic goblinoids, undead, and lizards, but that might be getting pushed back....

I say January and February are prime months, as I don't remember a whole lot of heavy hitters dropping around that time.

There's basically always a half-dozen or so tempting kickstarters running at any given time anymore.

I'm proud to say I've only supported one this year! My "plan" going forward is to only allow myself 2 a year now. As I have way too much crap too.

Schmapdi wrote:


I'm proud to say I've only supported one this year! My "plan" going forward is to only allow myself 2 a year now. As I have way too much crap too.

You, sir, are a better man than I.

Schmapdi wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
...and Dwarf King's Hold
...and the supposed Myth expansions....
...and War Prime, which seems like it's "primed" for the next few months....
...and Minion's hard plastic goblinoids, undead, and lizards, but that might be getting pushed back....

I say January and February are prime months, as I don't remember a whole lot of heavy hitters dropping around that time.

There's basically always a half-dozen or so tempting kickstarters running at any given time anymore.

I'm proud to say I've only supported one this year! My "plan" going forward is to only allow myself 2 a year now. As I have way too much crap too.

what's your secret?

cincydooley wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:


I'm proud to say I've only supported one this year! My "plan" going forward is to only allow myself 2 a year now. As I have way too much crap too.

You, sir, are a better man than I.

Piston Honda wrote:

what's your secret?

Crushing guilt/dread over my currently large collection of unpainted minis and very slow rate of painting. Not to mention I'll be getting tons more stuff from when my KS resolve wasn't so steely very "soonish."

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I say January and February are prime months, as I don't remember a whole lot of heavy hitters dropping around that time.

January has the problem with immediately following a time when many people are going to be recuperating from the holidays (financially, mentally, emotionally... intoxicationally). February/March can risk running into what seems to have become (at least for the last 2 years) a yearly sizable one from Dwarven Forge.

Don't get me wrong, I recognize that every month will have something going on, just thought I'd mention a few other considerations.

 Azazelx wrote:
Well, they are essentially the same company, so it's probably for the best if they stop putting their hands out for money and start fulfilling on a project, or even - hey, get this - maybe more than 1 project?

Agreed. We all know that KS can be used as a marketing tool, and it also can be used to gauge customer demand when you have finite resources. I'm guessing the amount of resources (time, people, cash) to put out Bunnies isn't that much less than Forgotten Kings. But Bunnies didn't pull in as many backers, so no point releasing a relatively less popular game. Slugfest Games had a similar situation with its revised Kung Fu Fighting Game. Maybe had this been SPM/ND's only project, they'd put more into it.

At least for the non-miniature boardgame market, even before KS, gamers had closets full of games they didn't have time to play. I'm not seeing any horrible crash in the future, and it's good to see KS keeping retailers from releasing too many games.

Schmapdi wrote:
Really, every game I've ever seen on KS where the first few stretch goals were things like "add x amount of mini that's already in the box" or "upgrade to plastic tokens" or whatnot were pretty clearly planned from the get-go.

It doesn't really bother me that companies pad their totals a bit like that - as long as real stretch goals are forthcoming afterwards. I also don't think it has much to do with Bunnies vs. Zombies failing, either. Though I also think with a little rejiggering - the game could have absolutely funded and then some. But I can see why they'd rather start fresh than throw in more freebies/whanot and shoot for a modest $75k -100k.

It is a long standing tradition with ND. The robotech kickstarter day 1 front page video had custom dice that were supposedly "unlocked" SEPARATELY for each faction after funding. I suspect they pulled the campaign less than half way through even though it was on track to fund because it didn't completely blow past their internal goals that were more accurately in line with real costs. I suspect that companies like ND put fake low funding levels and then pad fake stretch goals into the campaign that, when added together, more accurately indicate the minimum they need/want the campaign. While they weren't caught red handed, things like decals, plastic counters, and plastic templates were also suspected of being padded goals since they're all normally a part of a multipart plastic wargame starter set since the mid 1990's (the original warzone and 40k 2nd edition were the last ones that used paper that I ever picked up).

I'm shocked this raised almost $35K... it just doesn't look very well done.

Although kids-type toys / board game figures are something I think Soda Pop could be entrusted to handle fine... but even so, they should show they can deliver on one of the many projects they are involved in first.

 Piston Honda wrote:


what's your secret?

I think when I realized it'll take me 28 years to paint everything I have coming in given my painting speed (and that's not counting what I own already) that really made me cringe and stop looking at ks pages. They need to make kickstarter that creates a program that wont let your computer pledge to kickstartes. I'd back that