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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 03:19:40
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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So there are probably a million of these threads, but I'll ask again.
I'm looking to get into Historical Wargaming but I have no idea where to start, I do have a few ideas though. I would like to play a game oriented around tanks and tank battles, I also really like medieval and ancient historical stuff as well, but mainly what I'm looking for are model ranges that are multi-part, poseable kits made from plastic. I have seen a few kits that looked really nice painted up but I was unimpressed by the mono-pose soldiers. I also kind of want to get into a modern-esque wargame as well. Really, what I would like to do is have a kind of "armies through the ages" game-room where I can kind of pick a time frame and start rolling dice, lol!
Basically I want it all. I'm just stuck on where to get good models for a decent price, and I have no idea what sort of rule-sets I should be looking for. I've seen the Warlord Games stuff and I'm kind of leaning that way, does anyone else have experience with these guys?
Also, are there any really quirky games out there? Like naval battles or maybe an aircraft game?
I have more questions related to other, non-historical wargames, but I'll ask in the appropriate places...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 09:09:30
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
Wales: Where the Men are Men and the sheep are Scared.
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For plastics take a look at perry minitures, wargames factory as a starting point. They both offer cheap plastics in a few different historical eras. Vitrix is also worth looking at.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 10:02:02
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!
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Pick a period to start with and a scale...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 11:23:48
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Dipping With Wood Stain
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Pretty much this. Period is obviously important and scale determines your model availability.
For games oriented around tanks and tank battles, you're probably looking at WWII or later (sure you have tanks before then but WWII is really where large tank battles become more common),
Also you might then be better off with a smaller scale than the ubiquitous 28mm. 15/10mm will let you get more tanks on the table without compromising too much on model detail. Or if you really
want a LOT of tanks, there's the really tiny stuff like GHQ's 1/125 micro armour or Oddzial Osmy's dinky little 1/600 tanks.
For multi-part plastics for ancient and medieval, there's quite a selection these days. Perry still win in terms of quality IMO but there's also nice offerings from Victrix, Warlord and Gripping Beast.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 12:08:08
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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40kenthus
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You can add Agema (Roman) and Fireforge (Crusades/Mongol) to the list of plastic kits.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 12:54:48
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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For ~28 mm ancients, which is all that I can add to this discussion, I'd have to say Wargames Factory puts out some high-value boxes. At my flgs, I have seen boxes of plastic Ancient Celts, Germans, and Vikings all of which had about 30 guys, and about 75 weapons, for like 20 bucks retail.
Warlord Games puts out boxes that cost a bit more (but are still very reasonably priced when compared to GW products), and IMO have slightly better sculpts than Wargames Factory.
Wargames Foundry is all metal IIRC, and more expensive than either above, but they have an impressive range that the two above don't have, for example ancient Egyptian and East Asian models. I have never bought from them, but there catalogue is all viewable online.
As for rules, I can attest that Warlord Games' Hail Caesar is a very good rulest for ancient battles. At my flgs, the other Warlord Games rulesets (Pike & Shotte, Bolt Action, etc) are the popular systems other people use for more recent historical gaming.
Flames of War is also very popular in my area, but I believe it is played in 15mm scale.
It is important to find out what scale people in your area are playing in. It would suck to buy a bunch of 28mm models, only to find out that all your potential competitors play in 15mm.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/06/07 13:12:49
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 13:58:47
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Posts with Authority
I'm from the future. The future of space
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With the request for multi-part plastic, I'd have to recommend 28mm as well. Nothing wrong with Warlord's plastic kits. Their rules are solid as well.
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Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 23:11:46
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Waaagh! Warbiker
wales
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If you want tank battles then go for 15mm in scale ww2 id go with the battlegroup ruleset. But its all about what era you want to be in and how historically accurate you want to be or just have the flavor of the era.
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currently playing dropzone commander, battlegroup and gorkamorka |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/07 23:29:22
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Posts with Authority
I'm from the future. The future of space
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As for plastic kits with tanks in 15mm, you have Plastic Soldier Company, Zvezda's 1:100 scale kits and now Battlefront is starting to make mechanized platoon plastic kits which will also provide you with just the right amount of plastic infantry support.
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Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/08 21:27:27
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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Thanks for all the replies! I think the two best were probably Perry and Warlord, I was especially enthralled by their tanks for Bolt Action. I recently got into WoT (World of Tanks) so that is fueling the fire a bit.
As for the medieval type stuff, I really want historical accuracy, I didn't realize that until just now but I want to be able to create battle scenes from actual battles, you know like Hastings or something. In order to do that right, well you have to not only get the models right, but the heraldry and colours as well.
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Gets along better with animals... Go figure. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/08 21:40:19
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
Wales: Where the Men are Men and the sheep are Scared.
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Steel fist also have a few nice medieval's too. Would likley make good officers
http://www.steelfistminiatures.com/products/15th_century_nobles
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/09 17:39:00
Subject: Re:Looking into Historical Minis
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Executing Exarch
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Just one quick note - you do NOT want multi-part infantry at 15mm.
>.<
Some idiot (and I do not exagerate) thought that it would be a good idea to make one of Battlefront's 15mm pewter Romanian infantrymen be a two part figure. One of the arms (the one holding the gun) needs to be super glued into place. There's no particularly good reason for this decision on the part of the sculptor (particularly given the figure's pose; there's not much that you can do with the arm), and assembling the figure is an excercise in frustration.
Other than that, have fun.
Multi-part plastics are still somewhat limited in the historicals world. They exist, particularly for the most common armies. But they're still just entering the scene. Even stuff that's probably reasonably popular is just barely getting kits (for instance, afaik Gripping Beast's plastic Saracens on foot kit is the first of its kind, and it was just released). If something's less popular (for instance, my Sasanid Persians), then you're probably going to be restricted to metal.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/09 18:32:45
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Wing Commander
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For Aircraft, what period do you want? I heartily recommend Wings of War/Wings of Glory.
The rules are simple and elegant. The models are nice, pre painted, and come with all necessary bits (which also come in the base game or card packs). It needs no dice, plays quickly, and really helps capture the feel of early air combat.
WW1 will feel a bit 'knights of the air' in play. Head on passes usually won't completely obliterate you, maneuvering is highly important, some planes are lightning quick in comparison to other more nimble ones. Two seaters and bombers open up all sorts of fun. Gun jams are common, realistic, and add some spice to the game (always come up at the worst time, making you shift on the fly).
WW2 is also mostly well done, although there are a few hiccups in it (speed is a bit squirrelly). It will definitely feel different while still using many of the same rules. You do NOT want to make a head on pass at each other with these planes. One plane will almost always be dead and the other mortally wounded as would be appropriate for the firepower these planes produced. Still, good rules, and with a little imagination you can make for some great missions (such as fighting a naval skirmish over the Pacific Seas with ships to be torpedoed).
If you are looking for smaller army/skirmish. I can recommend Ronin. You can get figures through Foundry, Wargames Factory, Perry, and other manufacturers. Plus, as a rule set, it is easily adapted to a wide range of periods or settings. Swap out crossbows for teppos and you can easily play a slew of dark age to high medieval European conflicts.
If you want something a little bigger, Saga is pretty well written and done. Fairly simple as a system, but has larger armies. There is also loads of fan stuff to port it into other eras and locations. Gripping Beast makes reasonable if not always the most inspired minis for it. Musketeer Miniatures can be used for some parts of it and look lovely. Also see the Perry ranges for their First Crusade models (great Norman stuff). Conquest Games also does some pretty decent Norman stuff, and two boxes give you most everything you'd need (15 knights in the one box, 44 infantry in the other, you will still need to look around for some bow/crossbow stuff).
I would say to avoid Dixon Miniatures. I don't know about the rest of their line, but their Samurai are terrible. They look more like Dwarves in Japanese gear than actual people. Short and extremely stocky (as in Catachans look like Kate Moss in comparison).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/09 20:03:21
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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I rather like the Dixons Samurai but it must be said they are fairly old fashioned, dating from the late 1980s.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/09 20:45:49
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Heroic Senior Officer
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I would love to know more about wings of war (the WW1 game). What do I need to start playing?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/09 20:48:05
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Apparently the Zvezda 1/72 scale Samurai figures are rather good and are moulded in polystyrene allowing them to be converted more easily. I don't know how poseable they are.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/09 21:08:45
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Executing Exarch
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Swastakowey wrote:I would love to know more about wings of war (the WW1 game). What do I need to start playing?
iirc, a starter box and an opponent.
Incidentally, if you've played X-Wing or Star Trek Attack Wing, those two games are based off of the same rules.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/09 21:10:22
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Heroic Senior Officer
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I have a fleet for Firestorm armada but havent played any games yet. Other than that no fleet games etc under my belt yet. So starter set is enough to play? If so I may give it a try.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/09 22:21:14
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Wing Commander
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Eumerin wrote: Swastakowey wrote:I would love to know more about wings of war (the WW1 game). What do I need to start playing?
iirc, a starter box and an opponent.
Incidentally, if you've played X-Wing or Star Trek Attack Wing, those two games are based off of the same rules.
Pretty much this. Any of the box sets contain all the rules needed to play the basic game. Each box set just adds specialized rules: bombers or drachens (observation balloons).
Wings of Glory is the same, rules wise, as Wings of War, so you may be able to pick up an older box for cheaper. You won't loose anything. This is a reasonable forum for the game:
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/content.php
Has a number of user submitted aids for the game or developing a campaign (such as an aircraft timeline which lists all planes, when they entered service, maneuver deck, health, damage, and which maneuvers they can perform).
Essentially, each round consists of planning out three cards for that round. Players then turn them over simultaneously and all action occurs at once. Depending on the move played it may limit further moves (such as an immelman requiring a straight before and after it). All range consists of a single ruler, divided in half. If you are within the max range of the ruler, but not the short half, you take a single damage card (either A for two guns, or B for one gun). If within half range you take two. Once damage equals the health total of the plane it is shot down (and the controller keeps the damage secret).
Damage runs from 0 to I think 6 as the max. Then there are various effects that may occur: smoke, fire (these wood and canvas planes could catch fire, and this was considered a horrible and much feared death, sufficient that pilots would often jump out of a flaming plane to die from falling, parachutes not being issued to pilots, only to balloon operators), rudder damage (which affects the following turn’s planning), dead gunner, engine damage (which effectively slows down the plane), and instant death (which is usually removed for play).
Additionally, some cards come with jam markers on them, which causes the firing plane’s guns to jam for the next 3 cards (pilots would also carry hammers to beat their guns with to unjam them in combat, as bullet checking was pretty non existant, dud rounds were common leading to many aces checking their rounds by hand personally).
Optional ace rules can alter some of these items (such as changing mandatory cards, checking bullets, evasive maneuvers, etc).
Advanced rules also cover altitude, climb, and dive rates of the various planes (though I’ve never played with them for simplicities sake). There are also rules for tailing enemy planes (where they have to reveal their cards before you reveal yours, and you can then swap your cards around to better suit your needs) and sustained fire (dealing +1 to damage on successive cards) if you choose to use them.
That sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. I think 10 pages worth of rules max (don't have my rules in front of me). Games play quick, scenarios are included with the rules, and the minis are mostly for show (I wouldn't play without them) and come pre painted if you don't want to do it yourself.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/09 22:24:20
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Heroic Senior Officer
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Yea I have always loved the first World War. I know all about the setting but have never found any one interested. But If I get the starter set people will try it as they do.
I will do a fair amount of research after work.
Do you recommend anything to purchase alongside the starter set?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/09 22:40:24
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
Wales: Where the Men are Men and the sheep are Scared.
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Kilkrazy wrote:I rather like the Dixons Samurai but it must be said they are fairly old fashioned, dating from the late 1980s.
THey are not all bad they are decades old keep in minf. Their ronin were better scaled and their normal Samurai and there are other decent ranges too.
I am using perry for the majority of my Samurai army.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/10 01:39:18
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Wing Commander
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Swastakowey wrote:Yea I have always loved the first World War. I know all about the setting but have never found any one interested. But If I get the starter set people will try it as they do.
I will do a fair amount of research after work.
Do you recommend anything to purchase alongside the starter set?
I'd say the starter set and if you want the minis, pick up two from the same release. Most of the minis in the various releases are all from the same time period (i.e. a release will contain 4 plane types, with 3 pilots for each plane, all 4 planes will roughly be from the same time period). The Spad/Folker/Camel/Albatross release is a good release to learn on as each plane has it's own strengths and weaknesses (The Fokker is slow but maneuverable, the Albatross is medium speed and good health, the Camel is medium speed and medium maneuvering, and the Spad is a rocket sled on rails, or high speed/low move/good health).
Also, research the planes before you buy them. Most of the time the paint/country/pilot change is purely cosmetic, but in some cases it is not (the American Airco DH4, for example, has an A front and rear gun, as being Americans we liked to bolt on extra guns, while the others do not, also see the Hanriots, where one is A damage and the other two are B damage). Litko does make compatible bases, and the planes are 1:144 in scale, so you can find other options to fill in planes that have not been released yet.
In terms of starters, go with either the base starter or Burning Drachens. Flight of Giants is a bit more complex (the bombers that is), while the other two are both solid dog fighting games (Burning Drachens does have some single player scenarios, but the planes are generally earlier war).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
carlos13th wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:I rather like the Dixons Samurai but it must be said they are fairly old fashioned, dating from the late 1980s.
THey are not all bad they are decades old keep in minf. Their ronin were better scaled and their normal Samurai and there are other decent ranges too.
I am using perry for the majority of my Samurai army.
Despite heavy flash, if the Perry Brothers make a line of minis for the period you want to play you should buy Perry. They are hands down the most gorgeous historical minis, and frankly among the best looking minis regardless, of any company going (other than maybe Empress miniatures, who are also superb with much fewer flash issues.).
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/10 01:58:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/10 01:45:32
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Heroic Senior Officer
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Alright cheers. Its next one the list.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/10 02:05:40
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Posts with Authority
I'm from the future. The future of space
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I remember playing a lot of Red Baron on a 386 computer back in the day. WW1 dog fights are fantastic for gaming.
We thought it was so amazing back in the day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY5mDKmS_xk
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Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/10 02:09:01
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Heroic Senior Officer
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Rise of flight is amazing. My computer cant quite handle it but what i played was great. I cant wait to play it more when my next computer update comes around.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/10 02:23:30
Subject: Looking into Historical Minis
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Posts with Authority
I'm from the future. The future of space
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That game does look amazing! My computer overheats and shuts down when I play Minecraft though
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Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. |
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