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Hearing mostly complaints from the majority of people I talk to, especially in regards to C:SM Snipers. Having not played with the other factions snipers, how different are they?

They aren't terrible, but snipers are specialists. Expect a wound or two on MCs, or a chance to drop a heavy weapon out of a squad, and they'll get it done usually. Expect them to do dome damage and you'll be disappointed.

I just want some serious and cheap long range harass for the extra 60 points I have lol

Losing pinning hurts them a lot. Necron Deathmarks are insanely good though if used correctly...

Deathmarks were awesome. I used to use a full unit of 10 in my neuron army.

Ratlings work well too. 10 for 80pts is pretty decent. Low leadership though, and almost impossible to get orders off on them.

Space Marine snipers are kinda meh. The real tragedy comes when you try to compare them to other snipers. Then they're terrible.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Space Marine snipers are kinda meh. The real tragedy comes when you try to compare them to other snipers. Then they're terrible.

SM snipers work wonders for me, though under 100 points for 5 Scout Snipers with camo cloaks all they are good for is sitting on a backfield objective and going to ground when shot at for that 2+ cover save.

But they do that job better and cheaper than anything else in the codex.

Deathmarks and Sniper Team (Tau) are the most interesting Sniper options I know. Eldar Rangers and Scout Marines are quite survivable, though.

Give you CC squad some sniper rifles then order ignore cover or give them pinning again

I'm really hoping that Eldar Rangers (or Pathfinders) are usable in this upcoming edition, as I have a decently large footdar list with about 14 of them that I want to use as my troops choices. Their rate of fire isn't phenomenal, but with psychic buffs, I think they could be pretty decent. Are they still rending, or just ap2 on a 6?

Give you CC squad some sniper rifles then order ignore cover or give them pinning again



oops..thats what I get for stepping away while posting

Now that they've lost pinning, I can't really think of a use for them. They're mediocre MC killers (since most MCs can rely on getting their armor saves), and they're poor anti-character guns (since you get Look Out Sir rolls, and in any case most ICs have good armor saves).

For the specific case of SM Scouts, they're better than bolters if you're sitting back in your deployment zone capping an objective. But if you're infiltrating or outflanking, I feel like they're a bit more useful with bolters

Snipers are usable, just don't expect amazing results against troops. Against high value targets that produce much better results. Solo HQ's (Mephiston, etc), MC's and elite guys (Paladins, etc)/

Pinning I've never found to be particularly valuable. Never actually used it. I'm most sad about the loss of rending. My 20 rangers have never had amazing kill rates against foot soldiers, but they had a good record of tank hunting. Had one squad of 5 turn a full HP chimera to a wreck in a volley, and take assorted HP's off other vehicles. Never had that success against marines. Its a bad day when 10 guys can't kill 2 BA.

Snipers in my army have never been about the offense. Their primary job was holding an objective. Secondary was shooting. Which the range of the rifles let them do. Since 6th, this has meant hanging out behind an ADL manning the quad, a roll they excelled at.

With everything scoring the lost one of their perks. But they still are troops, so it takes another objective secured unit to contest their objective.

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Snipers are usable, just don't expect amazing results against troops. Against high value targets that produce much better results. Solo HQ's (Mephiston, etc), MC's and elite guys (Paladins, etc)/

Pinning I've never found to be particularly valuable. Never actually used it. I'm most sad about the loss of rending. My 20 rangers have never had amazing kill rates against foot soldiers, but they had a good record of tank hunting. Had one squad of 5 turn a full HP chimera to a wreck in a volley, and take assorted HP's off other vehicles. Never had that success against marines. Its a bad day when 10 guys can't kill 2 BA.

My feeling as well. There are only a couple armies in the game that legitimately need to worry about pinning tests.

As above. Snipers were mostly used to hold your home objective and now that everything is scoring, their value has been diminished even further. And on top of that, they were further nerfed in 7th...for reasons noone knows.

Kroot snipers are incredible 24" denial zones though.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Now that they've lost pinning, I can't really think of a use for them. They're mediocre MC killers (since most MCs can rely on getting their armor saves), and they're poor anti-character guns (since you get Look Out Sir rolls, and in any case most ICs have good armor saves).

Only characters get LoS rolls.
Use your snipers to pick off special or heavy weapon models, and you're laughing.
Take out medics or standard-bearers, and leave the serg until the end.
Lots of armies can't take special model upgrades, so snipers in this role are very situational. When they do work, they work well.

In terms of damage, yes. 5 bs4 guys average less than 1 wounds a turn on MEQ. Most of that is just the 50% chance of rend in the 3 hits. Thats before cover. The only two snipers in the game that have potential to do anything at all are deathmarks and the vindicare. Everything else is trash.

 zephoid wrote:
In terms of damage, yes. 5 bs4 guys average less than 1 wounds a turn on MEQ. Most of that is just the 50% chance of rend in the 3 hits. Thats before cover. The only two snipers in the game that have potential to do anything at all are deathmarks and the vindicare. Everything else is trash.

Snipers no longer have Rending. On a roll of 6, their shots become AP2.

Deathmarks are only viable when into a Death & Despair squad and they aren't viable because of them being Snipers but because of their special rule that allows them to hit on a 2+.

 zephoid wrote:
In terms of damage, yes. 5 bs4 guys average less than 1 wounds a turn on MEQ. Most of that is just the 50% chance of rend in the 3 hits. Thats before cover. The only two snipers in the game that have potential to do anything at all are deathmarks and the vindicare. Everything else is trash.

Don’t forget that only the sarge is BS4. Basic scouts are BS3 these days.

Is pinning really that important? Usually that's one of those rules that's always brought up in the "almost doesn't matter" category like fear and soul blaze.

Yeah, I have had luck with some pinning in the past. For the most part though I've never even really remembered it exists. Leadership for the most part of my games has been a joke and often times I even forget to have people roll the check.

For me the sniper has remained relatively the same. I use it to deal wounds to targets normally too tough to scratch. A few wounds on a Wraithknight won't do much on their own but it will make it easier for a Skyray to try and finish it off.

They sound good on paper but seldom do much of use aside from hiding and surviving. On average a squad of 10 will cause about 3 wounds on a target per turn, which isn't exactly staggering. Pinning is great when it actually happens (that being rarely with how high LD values are) and precision shots are neat when they can happen, but I wouldn't ever make them a unit I depend on for much. Wearing camo cloaks and hiding in terrain is something they're good at though, and they're a great objective sitter.

Tau Sniper Drones are pretty good.
48" Rapid Fire, BS5 on jet pack infantry with stealth, that can be buffed by an Ethereal.
Kroot are more occasionally useful.

Well, in maelstrom missions they could be quite useful. Camo cloaks should be mandatory.

my IG snipers work wonders! extra range, the cahnce to wound anything + precision and rending for the odd bucky "bonus" kill,

2pts?

whats not to like?


SM snipers definately have a role to fill and do it well when used right, just keep em away from sp 4 ignores cover stuff and your gold.

cool looking models too!

It depends an the army and the sniper. I have gotten quite good results out of sniper drone, who have one of the best basic sniper weapons in the game (48" rapid fire instead of the usual 36" hev. 1).

I've had bad experiences facing Tau Sniper Drone teams. They're BS5 and hit rapid fire range at 24" (which is usually out of the range of my own weapons), have stealth and are jet pack infantry to boot. I understand they do face stiff competition from other HS slots though (if you're wanting to stay forged that is).

You can, however, take quite a few in one slot. I have had fun with getting the spotter killed and putting my commander with a drone controller with them. It's even more fun when you get the 3d6 jump move thing for a warlord trait.

They have different jobs depending on the army.

SM scouts are best at sitting backfield and hiding, and possibly dealing 1 or 2 wounds over the whole game thanks to their poor BS and low number of shots.
They have a poor reputation because some people take them and expect them to deal with MCs. If you treat them like a scoring unit who hides in cover and occasionally do a wound to a tough model then you won't be disappointed.

Tau sniper drones or Necron deathmarks on the other hand are more offensive due to their increased firepower, have greater maneuverability and special rules which can support them(Tau etheral giving 3 shots, hunters from hyperspace for necrons).
Having BS 4/5 is a great improvement too.

I don't feel the lose of pinning is too important. Most targets I shot against were either bikes/ fearless/ Daemons anyway, so pinning rarely came into play.