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Well damn. At least Ahriman is BS5 if someone insists that I roll to hit with Shriek. I haven't been.

 Brometheus wrote:
Well damn. At least Ahriman is BS5 if someone insists that I roll to hit with Shriek. I haven't been.

I see nothing wrong with the players settling on a number of dice to roll, I do however find it very uncomfortable that people are advising that we simply ignore whatever the result is.

 Lobomalo wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Brief summation.

Rolling To Wound is dependent on successful To Hit Rolls.

Since the power does not roll To Wound (it just inflicts a random number of Wounds), then it does not matter if the power Hits or not.

So why bother to roll at all then if you're simply going to ignore the results?

Is this a legit play or something that we have settled on upon on this forum? I'd like to know in case I run into anyone at the hobby shop

Well, the issue was we aren't told how many dice to roll. But as Happy said, we don't roll to wound, so it doesn't matter if you hit or not. So people generally skip the to hit roll as it is impossible to resolve and doesn't matter. But read the thread I linked above for more in depth stuff.

 Lobomalo wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Well damn. At least Ahriman is BS5 if someone insists that I roll to hit with Shriek. I haven't been.

I see nothing wrong with the players settling on a number of dice to roll, I do however find it very uncomfortable that people are advising that we simply ignore whatever the result is.

That's from a pure RAW standpoint. Personally, I wouldn't mind playing it either way as long as it was discussed before the game.

 erick99 wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Brief summation.

Rolling To Wound is dependent on successful To Hit Rolls.

Since the power does not roll To Wound (it just inflicts a random number of Wounds), then it does not matter if the power Hits or not.

So why bother to roll at all then if you're simply going to ignore the results?

Is this a legit play or something that we have settled on upon on this forum? I'd like to know in case I run into anyone at the hobby shop

Well, the issue was we aren't told how many dice to roll. But as Happy said, we don't roll to wound, so it doesn't matter if you hit or not. So people generally skip the to hit roll as it is impossible to resolve and doesn't matter. But read the thread I linked above for more in depth stuff.

 Lobomalo wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Well damn. At least Ahriman is BS5 if someone insists that I roll to hit with Shriek. I haven't been.

I see nothing wrong with the players settling on a number of dice to roll, I do however find it very uncomfortable that people are advising that we simply ignore whatever the result is.

That's from a pure RAW standpoint. Personally, I wouldn't mind playing it either way as long as it was discussed before the game.

Scanning it now, interesting ideas, nothing I could see holding up in a wide majority of places I'm thinking. Thread kind of spirals out a lot which is annoying and then it's locked.

Yeah, I don't see how anyone could not agree with making it be one dice or something.

Psychic Shriek is nether a beam nor a vortex. Lets not have this thread spiral out of control.


What's interesting under beam is that only one of the units hit can attempt to deny the witch.
The odd part is that to be able to deny the witch, you would need to be targeted by the power.

It looks like it's just sloppy writing of the Beam power and that the intent is that it targets every unit hit by the beam.

Vortex...

What happens if a Vortex weapon scatters on to an Invisible unit? Also what happens when a vortex doesn't kill everything underneath it and those models are left starting their move in impassable terrain?

Vortex, as with blasts doesn't target the unit in question, so invisible or not it takes damage from what occurs.

Beams also do not target a unit directly and are unaffected.

Novas specifically state that they auto target and hit every unit in range. But since targeting is involved, the invisible unit would be safe because when it is picked as one of the targets the snap shot rule keeps that shooting attack from resolving any further. But all other units would be hit normally.

"A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units (including flyers and flying monstrous creatures) within the psychic power's maximum range..."

If you're normally only able to target flyers with snap shots, and they get auto-hit (and the nova doesn't have sky fire or anything), then why wouldn't other units that require snapshots to be hit also be targetted and hit?

You can't normally use template and blast weapons on flyers either.

Blasts DO target, but scattering onto a unit means you didnt target that unit, so invis wouldnt trigger.

Witchfires still use BS to hit, its just that for NOVA it says that regardless of roll you automatically hit. That is why it hits fliers, and that is why it hits people with invis

p.32 last sentence under "rolll to hit" - There is no such thing as an automatic hit".

If a Nova needs to roll to hit:
It must use the rules for rolling to hit. When rolling to hit, there is no such thing as an automatic hit. It must use the BS of the firer, in which case it will be hitting on 6s due to snap shotting.

If a Nova does NOT roll to hit:
It cannot make the attack against the invisible unit due to snap shots disallowing automatic hits.

Bojazz wrote:
p.32 last sentence under "rolll to hit" - There is no such thing as an automatic hit".

If a Nova needs to roll to hit:
It must use the rules for rolling to hit. When rolling to hit, there is no such thing as an automatic hit. It must use the BS of the firer, in which case it will be hitting on 6s due to snap shotting.

If a Nova does NOT roll to hit:
It cannot make the attack against the invisible unit due to snap shots disallowing automatic hits.

You are missing a bit:
"When rolling To Hit, there is no such thing as an automatic hit"

But Novas don't Roll To Hit, nor do templates or Blasts, so that line is irrelevant here.

Bojazz wrote:
p.32 last sentence under "rolll to hit" - There is no such thing as an automatic hit".

If a Nova needs to roll to hit:
It must use the rules for rolling to hit. When rolling to hit, there is no such thing as an automatic hit. It must use the BS of the firer, in which case it will be hitting on 6s due to snap shotting.

If a Nova does NOT roll to hit:
It cannot make the attack against the invisible unit due to snap shots disallowing automatic hits.

But a nova power automatically hits other unit types that would also normally take snap shots to hit (flyers), why does Invsibility override that if novas have been worded to hit other types of units that are also only able to be hit with snaps shots (Flyers).

If a nova can hit flyers, it can hit an Invisibile unit. Both normally require snap shots to hit, but novas automatically hit flyers as well, which sets the precedence it automatically hits units that you have to snap fire at.

I agree with WrentheFaceless. The Nova powers say they can auto-hit flyers; that sets the RAW precedent for them to hit Invisible units.

novas, beams, and anything that auto hits or forgoes the to hit roll will in fact hit invis units just fine...

that is in fact, the whole point.


novas, beams ect, things like hammer of wrath, are the hard counters to this spell, and RAW fully supports this

My post was only in response to Leth's comment about Nova's rolling to hit, but automatically hitting. My stance on how I would play it is on the first page and remains unchanged.

Bojazz wrote:
My post was only in response to Leth's comment about Nova's rolling to hit, but automatically hitting. My stance on how I would play it is on the first page and remains unchanged.

However i would disagree with it as the posts above show with precedence: You do not Snap Fire Novas, they will simply inflict wounds on Invisible units as they do on Flyers

RAW: Novas automatically hit all units, even ones you have to snap fire at. Specifically stating it hits Flyers confirms it hits units you have to normally snap fire at,

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
RAW: Novas automatically hit all units, even ones you have to snap fire at. Specifically stating it hits Flyers confirms it hits units you have to normally snap fire at,

This isn't the case. It states you can hit flyers automatically. An invisible flyer, you auto hit. Anything on the ground, you do not auto hit.

 Lobomalo wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
RAW: Novas automatically hit all units, even ones you have to snap fire at. Specifically stating it hits Flyers confirms it hits units you have to normally snap fire at,

This isn't the case. It states you can hit flyers automatically. An invisible flyer, you auto hit. Anything on the ground, you do not auto hit.

You should read the very first line for Novas on page 27.

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
RAW: Novas automatically hit all units, even ones you have to snap fire at. Specifically stating it hits Flyers confirms it hits units you have to normally snap fire at,

Edited for putting foot in mouth.

You should read the very first line for Novas on page 27.

My mistake on this. I will correct.

yeah, i know its hard to accept that GW actually did us a solid on this,

but every single tree has some great counters to invis through beams, novas, even focused witchfires can ignore the 6's to hit bit.

so have fun making those ivis death starts cry with all your auto hit powers, stomps, thunder blitzes and so on!

 Lobomalo wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Brief summation.

Rolling To Wound is dependent on successful To Hit Rolls.

Since the power does not roll To Wound (it just inflicts a random number of Wounds), then it does not matter if the power Hits or not.

So why bother to roll at all then if you're simply going to ignore the results?

Is this a legit play or something that we have settled on upon on this forum? I'd like to know in case I run into anyone at the hobby shop

Ask your opponent if you plan on using it. My local store has agreed that Psychic Shriek does not require a to hit roll. The place we play tournaments at an hour down the road does so we just adjust when we go there.

PanzerLeader wrote:


Ask your opponent if you plan on using it. My local store has agreed that Psychic Shriek does not require a to hit roll. The place we play tournaments at an hour down the road does so we just adjust when we go there.

This is how I plan on playing it. Though I already know that the power auto hitting is a no no where I play lol