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The West fails to realise that some societies only work under a Dictatorship. We may not like it but that's how it is. There must be some reason why The West developed a democratic system of rule while a lot of the world didn't?
Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion. Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. When your time comes to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.
Lt. Rorke - Act of Valor
I can now be found on Facebook under the name of Wulfstan Design
The "nation" of Iraq left the world stage when the coalition invaded - there's neither a strong nor a weak Iraq anymore, just a collection of disparate provinces and a nominal government in Baghdad.
If ISIL manages to bring all the Sunni Arab provinces under its control, Iran will have to do *something* to protect the Shia Arabs in the southeast. Turkey might need to step in to prevent de-facto independent Kurdistan from breaking away from Iraq officially. And If Assad ever manages to regain control of Syria's northeast, he will need to move on into Iraq as well to eliminate his opponents. In any scenario, Iraq will not return to being a functional, unified state.
Not that it ever was "unified", but that's more the fault of Sykes and Picot.
Oaka wrote: It's getting to the point where if I see Marneus Calgar and the Swarmlord in the same unit as a Riptide, I probably won't question its legality.
ISIS maybe part of the large umbrella that is Al-Qaeda, but not all groups under that umbrella are friends.
Reports this morning indicated the the Syrian opposition grpoups were in a three way war with Assad and the ISIS. As we famously know, some of those groups that are part of the Syrian Opposition are also under the A.Q. umbrella. Yet, they seem to be fighting against each other.
Complicated and fluid situation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/12 14:39:12
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Wolfstan wrote: The West fails to realise that some societies only work under a Dictatorship. We may not like it but that's how it is. There must be some reason why The West developed a democratic system of rule while a lot of the world didn't?
We developed that system as a natural consequence of events. It wasn't forced onto us by outsiders at the barrel of a gun. It's extremely difficult to force a defeated people to accept democracy when every tradition of theirs goes against it. The only exception I can think of is Japan, but they where at least a united people, unlike Iraq which was a fractured and divided nation held together by a dictator, which arguably goes back to the nations rather dubious origins.
"And if we've learnt anything over the past 1000 mile retreat it's that Russian agriculture is in dire need of mechanisation!"
Wolfstan wrote: The West fails to realise that some societies only work under a Dictatorship. We may not like it but that's how it is. There must be some reason why The West developed a democratic system of rule while a lot of the world didn't?
We developed that system as a natural consequence of events. It wasn't forced onto us by outsiders at the barrel of a gun. It's extremely difficult to force a defeated people to accept democracy when every tradition of theirs goes against it. The only exception I can think of is Japan, but they where at least a united people, unlike Iraq which was a fractured and divided nation held together by a dictator, which arguably goes back to the nations rather dubious origins.
That's the interesting point, what allowed this to happen? I wondered if the geographical and environmental conditions helped? Did the fact that they were generally stable allow us to focus more on developing society rather than having fighting for resources. Does that make sense?
Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion. Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. When your time comes to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.
Lt. Rorke - Act of Valor
I can now be found on Facebook under the name of Wulfstan Design
Wolfstan wrote: Can't we just seal the borders in that whole region and let them get on with it? It's the 21st Century... if you can't play nice with others then you shouldn't be allowed to play at all. It's not even them v The West, it's them v them. "My way of worshiping Allah is better than yours..." sheesh!
When others espouse this idea we get looked at funny.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Reports are now that the Kurds have taken Kirkuk.
Is it me or does Iraq look like its about a maybe a week away from breaking apart? Biden may have been more prescient then we thought.
Just read as being...'more president than we thought'... is that bad or just plain horrifying as a thought?
Automatically Appended Next Post: News.
Mosul and Tikrit held by ISIS.
Delayed vote on PM emergency powers 128/425 MPs turned up.
Parliament in Baghdad has delayed voting on a request to grant the prime minister emergency powers as the north slips out of government control.
Just 128 out of the 325 MPs turned up for the vote on Nouri Maliki's request.
In the north, Kurdish forces claimed control of the oil city of Kirkuk, saying government forces had fled.
The Kurds secured the area after the cities of Mosul and Tikrit fell to Sunni Islamist insurgents during a lightning advance.
Kurdish fighters are seen as a bulwark against the Sunni Muslim insurgents but they have also been locked for years in a dispute with Baghdad over Kirkuk, seeking to incorporate it into their own autonomous area.
Led by the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS), the insurgents are believed to be planning to push further south to the capital Baghdad and regions dominated by Iraq's Shia Muslim majority, whom they regard as "infidels".
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/12 15:17:32
The "nation" of Iraq left the world stage when the coalition invaded - there's neither a strong nor a weak Iraq anymore, just a collection of disparate provinces and a nominal government in Baghdad.
If ISIL manages to bring all the Sunni Arab provinces under its control, Iran will have to do *something* to protect the Shia Arabs in the southeast. Turkey might need to step in to prevent de-facto independent Kurdistan from breaking away from Iraq officially. And If Assad ever manages to regain control of Syria's northeast, he will need to move on into Iraq as well to eliminate his opponents. In any scenario, Iraq will not return to being a functional, unified state.
Not that it ever was "unified", but that's more the fault of Sykes and Picot.
Then maybe like the tides, this was bound to eventually happen. Iraq wasn't originally a country, just lines on a map.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
As noted, "Iraq" was never really a unified nation identity in the first place. It was an arbitrary border imposed in multiple ethnic groups, and was never really a particularly stable or benevolent state.
Partition is likely to be better in the long run as a more realistic expression of the ethnic groups located therein. It's been functionally partitioned for decades in terms of actual operation.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
"They've got WMD's!"
No WMDs found.
"They're linked to AQ!"
No links to AQ found until after the invasion.
"Mission accomplished!"
War drags on interminably.
"We really came to bring democracy!"
Terrorist attacks dog Iraq as they never did under Saddam.
"We're leaving!"
Collapse starts.
"It was fate, they were never a real democracy."
Iraq collapses.
"See? Told you. They were never a real country. Even all of our bombs and troops couldn't make it a democracy!"
Da Boss wrote: "They've got WMD's!"
No WMDs found.
"They're linked to AQ!"
No links to AQ found until after the invasion.
"Mission accomplished!"
War drags on interminably.
"We really came to bring democracy!"
Terrorist attacks dog Iraq as they never did under Saddam.
"We're leaving!"
Collapse starts.
"It was fate, they were never a real democracy."
Iraq collapses.
"See? Told you. They were never a real country. Even all of our bombs and troops couldn't make it a democracy!"
Sigh.
That made me laugh more than it should.
On a side note for any of our Biritish posters, do you think this will affect the Iraq war inquiry?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/12 15:40:16
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
Da Boss wrote: "They've got WMD's!"
No WMDs found.
"They're linked to AQ!"
No links to AQ found until after the invasion.
"Mission accomplished!"
War drags on interminably.
"We really came to bring democracy!"
Terrorist attacks dog Iraq as they never did under Saddam.
"We're leaving!"
Collapse starts.
"It was fate, they were never a real democracy."
Iraq collapses.
"See? Told you. They were never a real country. Even all of our bombs and troops couldn't make it a democracy!"
Sigh.
That made me laugh mote than it should.
On a side note for any of our Biritish posters, do you think this will affect the Iraq war inquiry?
Da Boss wrote: "They've got WMD's!"
No WMDs found.
"They're linked to AQ!"
No links to AQ found until after the invasion.
"Mission accomplished!"
War drags on interminably.
"We really came to bring democracy!"
Terrorist attacks dog Iraq as they never did under Saddam.
"We're leaving!"
Collapse starts.
"It was fate, they were never a real democracy."
Iraq collapses.
"See? Told you. They were never a real country. Even all of our bombs and troops couldn't make it a democracy!"
Sigh.
That made me laugh mote than it should.
On a side note for any of our Biritish posters, do you think this will affect the Iraq war inquiry?
There's an "Iraq War Inquiry"?? Whatzat?
IIRC, its main purpose is to investigate Tony Blair and the actions he took that led to war.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wikipedia has the answers to your questions!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/12 15:44:39
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
Da Boss wrote: "They've got WMD's!"
No WMDs found.
"They're linked to AQ!"
No links to AQ found until after the invasion.
"Mission accomplished!"
War drags on interminably.
"We really came to bring democracy!"
Terrorist attacks dog Iraq as they never did under Saddam.
"We're leaving!"
Collapse starts.
"It was fate, they were never a real democracy."
Iraq collapses.
"See? Told you. They were never a real country. Even all of our bombs and troops couldn't make it a democracy!"
Sigh.
That made me laugh mote than it should.
On a side note for any of our Biritish posters, do you think this will affect the Iraq war inquiry?
There's an "Iraq War Inquiry"?? Whatzat?
IIRC, its main purpose is to investigate Tony Blair and the actions he took that led to war.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wikipedia has the answers to your questions!
Da Boss wrote: "They've got WMD's!"
No WMDs found.
"They're linked to AQ!"
No links to AQ found until after the invasion.
"Mission accomplished!"
War drags on interminably.
"We really came to bring democracy!"
Terrorist attacks dog Iraq as they never did under Saddam.
"We're leaving!"
Collapse starts.
"It was fate, they were never a real democracy."
Iraq collapses.
"See? Told you. They were never a real country. Even all of our bombs and troops couldn't make it a democracy!"
Sigh.
That made me laugh mote than it should.
On a side note for any of our Biritish posters, do you think this will affect the Iraq war inquiry?
There's an "Iraq War Inquiry"?? Whatzat?
IIRC, its main purpose is to investigate Tony Blair and the actions he took that led to war.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wikipedia has the answers to your questions!
If we ever get it. Apparently, there were a few problems revealing US related things.
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
Da Boss wrote: "They've got WMD's!"
No WMDs found.
"They're linked to AQ!"
No links to AQ found until after the invasion.
"Mission accomplished!"
War drags on interminably.
"We really came to bring democracy!"
Terrorist attacks dog Iraq as they never did under Saddam.
"We're leaving!"
Collapse starts.
"It was fate, they were never a real democracy."
Iraq collapses.
"See? Told you. They were never a real country. Even all of our bombs and troops couldn't make it a democracy!"
Sigh.
That made me laugh mote than it should.
On a side note for any of our Biritish posters, do you think this will affect the Iraq war inquiry?
There's an "Iraq War Inquiry"?? Whatzat?
IIRC, its main purpose is to investigate Tony Blair and the actions he took that led to war.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wikipedia has the answers to your questions!
Da Boss wrote: "They've got WMD's!"
No WMDs found.
"They're linked to AQ!"
No links to AQ found until after the invasion.
"Mission accomplished!"
War drags on interminably.
"We really came to bring democracy!"
Terrorist attacks dog Iraq as they never did under Saddam.
"We're leaving!"
Collapse starts.
"It was fate, they were never a real democracy."
Iraq collapses.
"See? Told you. They were never a real country. Even all of our bombs and troops couldn't make it a democracy!"
Sigh.
Sounds about right
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Da Boss wrote: "They've got WMD's!"
No WMDs found.
"They're linked to AQ!"
No links to AQ found until after the invasion.
"Mission accomplished!"
War drags on interminably.
"We really came to bring democracy!"
Terrorist attacks dog Iraq as they never did under Saddam.
"We're leaving!"
Collapse starts.
"It was fate, they were never a real democracy."
Iraq collapses.
"See? Told you. They were never a real country. Even all of our bombs and troops couldn't make it a democracy!"
Sigh.
That made me laugh mote than it should.
On a side note for any of our Biritish posters, do you think this will affect the Iraq war inquiry?
There's an "Iraq War Inquiry"?? Whatzat?
IIRC, its main purpose is to investigate Tony Blair and the actions he took that led to war.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wikipedia has the answers to your questions!
If we ever get it. Apparently, there were a few problems revealing US related things.
Get Snowden on it then.
:shrug:
So, what are we hoping to see? Some sort of Bush/Chaney/Haliburton cabal orchastrating some false data with Blair?
Can we link to this glorious example of "politicians lied, Americans died, who gives a gak because I sure as hell fething don't" next time we get crocodile tears and fake outrage whenever the Benghazi thread pops back up on page one?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/12 16:06:53
Da Boss wrote: "They've got WMD's!"
No WMDs found.
"They're linked to AQ!"
No links to AQ found until after the invasion.
"Mission accomplished!"
War drags on interminably.
"We really came to bring democracy!"
Terrorist attacks dog Iraq as they never did under Saddam.
"We're leaving!"
Collapse starts.
"It was fate, they were never a real democracy."
Iraq collapses.
"See? Told you. They were never a real country. Even all of our bombs and troops couldn't make it a democracy!"
Sigh.
That made me laugh mote than it should.
On a side note for any of our Biritish posters, do you think this will affect the Iraq war inquiry?
There's an "Iraq War Inquiry"?? Whatzat?
IIRC, its main purpose is to investigate Tony Blair and the actions he took that led to war.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wikipedia has the answers to your questions!
If we ever get it. Apparently, there were a few problems revealing US related things.
Get Snowden on it then.
:shrug:
So, what are we hoping to see? Some sort of Bush/Chaney/Haliburton cabal orchastrating some false data with Blair?
Can we link to this glorious example of "politicians lied, Americans died, who gives a gak because I sure as hell fething don't" next time we get crocodile tears and fake outrage whenever the Benghazi thread pops back up on page one?
It would be funny, if it wasn't so obvious that you are perfectly fine with these mental gymnastics that you somehow justify in your mind. But the sad thing is that you are way to smart for the stuff you post.
Da Boss wrote: "They've got WMD's!"
No WMDs found.
"They're linked to AQ!"
No links to AQ found until after the invasion.
"Mission accomplished!"
War drags on interminably.
"We really came to bring democracy!"
Terrorist attacks dog Iraq as they never did under Saddam.
"We're leaving!"
Collapse starts.
"It was fate, they were never a real democracy."
Iraq collapses.
"See? Told you. They were never a real country. Even all of our bombs and troops couldn't make it a democracy!"
Sigh.
That made me laugh mote than it should.
On a side note for any of our Biritish posters, do you think this will affect the Iraq war inquiry?
There's an "Iraq War Inquiry"?? Whatzat?
IIRC, its main purpose is to investigate Tony Blair and the actions he took that led to war.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wikipedia has the answers to your questions!
If we ever get it. Apparently, there were a few problems revealing US related things.
Get Snowden on it then.
:shrug:
So, what are we hoping to see? Some sort of Bush/Chaney/Haliburton cabal orchastrating some false data with Blair?
Can we link to this glorious example of "politicians lied, Americans died, who gives a gak because I sure as hell fething don't" next time we get crocodile tears and fake outrage whenever the Benghazi thread pops back up on page one?
d-usa wrote: It would be funny, if it wasn't so obvious that you are perfectly fine with these mental gymnastics that you somehow justify in your mind. But the sad thing is that you are way to smart for the stuff you post.
It's sad that you think it's okay the Obama administration and his crew lied to you.
IRBIL, Iraq — Iraq was on the brink of disintegration Thursday as al-Qaeda-inspired fighters swept through northern Iraq toward Baghdad and Kurdish soldiers seized the city of Kirkuk without a fight.
Lawmakers gathered at the Iraqi parliament to discuss the declaration of a state of emergency, a day after Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki assured Iraqis that the insurgents’ gains were temporary and would soon be reversed by the Iraqi army.
But after the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) captured fresh territory and set its sights on Baghdad, Iraq seemed to be fast slipping out of government control.
Iraqi state television claimed that government forces recaptured the north-central city of Tikrit on Thursday, a day after ISIS said it seized the home town of former Iraqi ruler Saddam Hussein. The group, an al-Qaeda offshoot, asserted, however, that it has completely surrounded the city of Samarra, south of Tikrit and just 70 miles north of Baghdad, leaving the situation on the ground unclear.
The semiautonomous Kurdish government said its pesh merga forces took control of the Kurdish city of Kirkuk in northern Iraq, after Iraqi security forces there fled rather than fight. The capture of Kirkuk follows the seizure by the (ISIS) on Monday of the important northern city of Mosul, putting northern Iraq beyond the central government’s authority.
A top leader in ISIS, a radical Sunni Muslim group that U.S. forces spent eight years trying to defeat, urged fighters to press on to Baghdad, where he said there are “scores to be settled” with the Shiite-led government.
In an audio address posted on the Internet, Abu Mohammed al-Adnani, an ISIS spokesman, taunted Maliki. “What have you done to your people, o foolish one,” he said. “You lost a historic opportunity for your people to control Iraq, and the Shiites will always curse you for as long as you live.”
Adnani also vowed that ISIS would take the southern Iraqi Shiite cities of Karbala and Najaf, sites of two of the holiest shrines in Shiite Islam.
In the north, Kurdish forces are in full control of Iraq’s oil-rich city of Kirkuk after the federal army abandoned its bases there, a Kurdish military spokesman said Thursday.
Kirkuk lies at the heart of a long-running dispute between the central government in Baghdad and the Kurds, who run their own autonomous region in the north of the country and have an armed force called the pesh merga.
“The whole of Kirkuk has fallen into the hands of pesh merga,” said Jabbar Yawar. “No Iraqi army remains in Kirkuk now.”
The stunning speed with which the rout has unfolded in northern Iraq has raised deep doubts about the capacity of U.S.-trained Iraqi security forces, and it has also kindled fears about the government’s grip on the capital.
In a country already fraught with sectarian tension, with parts of western Iraq now in Sunni militant hands, the latest gains by ISIS insurgents prompted cries of alarm from leaders of Iraq’s Shiite Muslim majority.
It appeared that the militants faced more robust resistance as they moved south, where Iraq’s Shiites have a stronger presence. But several experts said it would be wrong to assume that heavily fortified Baghdad, with its large Shiite population and concentration of elite forces, could easily fend off an ISIS attack.
Sly reported from Beirut.
If the Kurds delcare their own state...Turkey is going to get ugly.
d-usa wrote: It would be funny, if it wasn't so obvious that you are perfectly fine with these mental gymnastics that you somehow justify in your mind. But the sad thing is that you are way to smart for the stuff you post.
It's sad that you think it's okay the Obama administration and his crew lied to you.
...the world continues to resolutely not give a gak.
Your government does, arming the terrorists.
Wake up, it's a multilayered proxy war.
Spoiler:
Wake up, sheeple!
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums.
d-usa wrote: It would be funny, if it wasn't so obvious that you are perfectly fine with these mental gymnastics that you somehow justify in your mind. But the sad thing is that you are way to smart for the stuff you post.
It's sad that you think it's okay the Obama administration and his crew lied to you.
You really get too one-sided at a times. Look around a bit, the rational for getting into Iraq were complete fabrications.
Co'tor... lying and being wrong are two different things. Often times, critics of the Iraq War conflate the two.
We have absolute evidence that Obama and his administration knowingly lied.
We also have evidence that the Bush administration deliberately mis-led the american people. It's funny how that works, huh?
A) do some research what kind of an organization GobalResearch truly represent (they're a moonbat orgranization... just google-fu them and Libya )
B) you're falling into that "Bush lied, people died" trap.
Anyhoo...I'm hoping that the UK's Iraq War Inquiry can shed some light on that so that we can all shutup about this.
I always wanted to post this video as it always seemed to sum up the war of terror. I mean on terror.
Warning, NSFW!
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
Apparently, there were a few problems revealing US related things. 
The Empire 
1500 pts
: 
