Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/20 06:25:56
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Daemonic Dreadnought
|
Whiskey Tango Foxtrop Telegraph UK just went full slow on their live coverage. The headline is scary but there is no readily available article.
Here is a more complete article
http://m.smh.com.au/world/isil-seizes-saddam-husseins-former-chemical-weapons-plant-20140620-zsfm4.html
http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/sunni-extremists-in-iraq-occupy-saddams-chemical-weapons-facility-1403190600?mobile=y
In short ISIS has a sealed bunker full of dismantled and expired WMD that holds no military value.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/20 06:30:51
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/20 06:31:28
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
That's it.
With the media you have deliberately misleading and sensationalist headlines with weapon names taken out of context and chaos ensues when you have an audience that has the average attention span of a four year old.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/20 06:32:44
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/21 02:57:11
Subject: Re:Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Islamist militants in Iraq have occupied Saddam Hussein's former chemical weapons production facility, which contains a stockpile of old chemical weapon, the US government has said.
US military officials don't believe the militants from the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant, also known as ISIS, would be able to create a new weapon from the stockpiles left behind at the Muthanna complex about 60 kilometres north-west of Baghdad, according to the Wall Street Journal. Nonetheless, the rapid loss of control of the key site in Iraq has unsettled US authorities after weeks of rapid gains by the Sunni militants.
"We remain concerned about the seizure of any military site by the ISIL," US State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said, according to the media outlet. "We do not believe that the complex contains CW materials of military value and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to safely move the materials."
However, one US official said that had they known Iraq would become so destabilised after the 2011 pullout of US troop, they would not have left the stockpiles in place. ISIL, an offshoot of al-Qaeda-linked fighters in Syria, has rapidly swept through large parts of Iraq in recent weeks, undermining security in the country.
The claim that former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction and posed a threat to world security was the basis for the 2003 US invasion of Iraq. Before the invastion, the weapons at Muthanna had been found by UN inspectors but were dismantled with chemical stocks militarily useless and closed off in bunkers.
The US stressed the takeover of the site did not comprise a major military gain.
Psaki said it. I am 110% reassured. WTH does she know about Chemical Weapons.
So when you
I interviewed Mamdouh Habib, a renditon victim who was never formally charged for any crime within detention, despite having settled out of court with the Australian government to absolve the aforementioned government of any liability in his treatment during his detention by the United States.
Which I provided more information then you. Which I admit I set you up for total failure to see what you actually know.
Who do you work for? Kronk ask you that question and now Bullockist asked you a similar question. So far all your replies/debate/whatever remarks you make sounds like a fortune cookie "fortune". Which are in general "right" most of the time but you lack any real knowledge of the subject.
WMD agents being one of them you blew big time
You also claim Bergdahl was apparently treated better then GITMO detainee's which we have found out he has not. Two years in a small box will make one brain go off the reservation. Yet you stand by your claim.
You cannot debate, you go on the attack and you try to "inflame" a topic. I though saw one post you made lately that I liked which was well written.
Other then that 44Ronin stay frosty
|
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/21 03:28:38
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
Jihadin, I cracked up when Ronin said this lil' gem, and I quote directly:
"As I said, it's sad that Bergdahl is treated better than a gitmo inmate."
I take anything else he says as having the same relation to reality.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/21 03:38:39
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/21 04:19:47
Subject: Re:Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Jihadin wrote:
Psaki said it. I am 110% reassured. WTH does she know about Chemical Weapons.
So when you
This is usually my reaction when ANYONE from State dept. says anything in regards to some form of "military" entity.... I mean, it'd be one thing if she had said, "we inspected the area with some Chem-Dawgs and they confirmed that these items are of no military value" or something to that effect... It'd convey a probably true statement with "expert" knowledge without attempting to sound like SHE was the expert (which, unless she worked Chemical Corp in the military, she probably aint)
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/21 04:26:50
Subject: Re:Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
I can see some DoS rep telling me its safe to go down in sealed harden bunkers that just been open and see what's there. I would have a very colorful reply
Depending what was stored and open down there is a crap shoot.. Some agents might be inert and activation requires moisture. One thing everyone is doing is sweating
Edit
Retired General Scales went in depth a bit more. Mostly Sarin and Mustard gas in their component states. Equipment to mix is unreliable. Anyone know if they captured something similar in Syria? 13 years its degraded. Which means it takes more of one component to make it effective. Fuel air bombs
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/21 06:39:35
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/21 08:50:42
Subject: Re:Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator
|
Jihadin wrote:Mostly Sarin and Mustard gas in their component states. Equipment to mix is unreliable. Anyone know if they captured something similar in Syria?
As far as we know, Assad remains in control of all of his declared facilities.
How difficult is it to produce that gak anyway? Do you even require a plant, or could you whip up some small scale production in a workshop? Do you need any hard to come by components? (I'm no weapons expert, to put it politely.)
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/21 09:09:19
Subject: Re:Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Courageous Grand Master
-
|
Allod wrote: Jihadin wrote:Mostly Sarin and Mustard gas in their component states. Equipment to mix is unreliable. Anyone know if they captured something similar in Syria?
As far as we know, Assad remains in control of all of his declared facilities.
How difficult is it to produce that gak anyway? Do you even require a plant, or could you whip up some small scale production in a workshop? Do you need any hard to come by components? (I'm no weapons expert, to put it politely.)
You don't even need facilities to produce that stuff. If your aim is to terrorise civilians, then dumping concentrated doses of pesticides and chlorine (all ready available commercial stuff) can, unfortunately, be just as effective. Normally, that stuff would bounce off a proper military force with its troops suited for CBW, but against unprotected civilians
|
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/21 15:38:27
Subject: Re:Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
You can make Chlorine gas very easy with just home cleaning products
|
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/21 16:58:56
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
|
And hydrogen sulphide, and carbon monoxide. Explosives can be made from sugar and weed killer.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 04:08:23
Subject: Re:Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Lord of the Fleet
|
Allod wrote:
As far as we know, Assad remains in control of all of his declared facilities.
How difficult is it to produce that gak anyway? Do you even require a plant, or could you whip up some small scale production in a workshop? Do you need any hard to come by components? (I'm no weapons expert, to put it politely.)
Sarin can be produced relatively easily (though quality tends to be lacking). A cult in Japan was able to pull it off.
What worries me more is the possibility that this was the real objective of the whole thing. Iraq in particular had serious issues with the shelf life of it's chemical agents. How they got around it was to keep the precursors in a binary state, extending it's storage life by decades. If, in Syria, they got their hands on one half of said binary agents, hitting Iraqi sites that might have a remaining stockpile of the other half of the equation, so to speak.
The other things they've been making off with are also problematical. They've managed, from what I've heard, to get their hands on US made 155mm artillery and a lot of other US gear that was left in Iraqi hands. If they've gotten sarin or something similar in a binary state, those 155s give them an effective delivery system.
And, on this current to do: I told you all so. But, hey, what do I know?
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/06/22 04:12:51
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 05:05:40
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
|
To be honest I am somewhat disappointed.
The main reason for the invasion of Iraq in 2003 was to get rid of the WMDs.
Can we not do anything right?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 05:35:28
Subject: Re:Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
I thought he said he was 14 earlier. Or was that Frazzled saying he was 114. I forget.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/22 05:35:52
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 07:57:20
Subject: Re:Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
kronk wrote:
I thought he said he was 14 earlier. Or was that Frazzled saying he was 114.
I forget.
I thought in another thread he implied that he was some form of journalist?? But, 14 would make some sense as well.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 08:00:15
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Everybody is a journalist, all you need is an instagram and reddit.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 08:04:04
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
d-usa wrote:Everybody is a journalist, all you need is an instagram and reddit.
Guess Im not, because I have neither
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 10:43:07
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Lord of the Fleet
|
Kilkrazy wrote:The main reason for the invasion of Iraq in 2003 was to get rid of the WMDs.
If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.
Besides, getting rid of a chemical weapon is easy. Getting rid of the ability to produce precursors is not. All you need for Phosgene is chlorine, carbon monoxide, and activated charcoal.. Sarin's a little more exotic, requiring methylphosphonyl difluoride and a mixture of isopropyl alcohol and isopropylamine. The last two are fairly common, the first is not.
|
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 12:48:06
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
|
BaronIveagh wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:The main reason for the invasion of Iraq in 2003 was to get rid of the WMDs.
If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.
Besides, getting rid of a chemical weapon is easy. Getting rid of the ability to produce precursors is not. All you need for Phosgene is chlorine, carbon monoxide, and activated charcoal.. Sarin's a little more exotic, requiring methylphosphonyl difluoride and a mixture of isopropyl alcohol and isopropylamine. The last two are fairly common, the first is not.
Of course I don't believe it. It was an obvious lie at the time, which why there was so much popular opposition to the war.
If we count stuff like phosgene as a WMD we basically need to take industry back to the mid-Victorian tech level, which is not a realistic idea.
The argument is not about people misusing common industrial chemicals, though, it is about the origins and results of the war which ever increasingly show it to have been probably the most disastrous foreign intervention in the past 50 years, and what if anything can be done to sort it all out.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 18:49:35
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Lord of the Fleet
|
Kilkrazy wrote:The argument is not about people misusing common industrial chemicals, though, it is about the origins and results of the war which ever increasingly show it to have been probably the most disastrous foreign intervention in the past 50 years, and what if anything can be done to sort it all out.
Stopping it is easy. Break their will, leave them with no desire to fight anymore. Mind you, to do that you'd need to be willing to wage 'total' war. To match and then exceed their ruthlessness and brutality. The Genghis Khan approach. If they snipe at you, you kill every man, woman, and child in the place, and leave a pyramid of their heads outside the burned out town.
But we all know that John Q Smith of Anytown USA would not have the stomach for it until they murder a large number of Americans, again.
|
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 20:56:15
Subject: Re:Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
|
Ensis Ferrae wrote: 44Ronin wrote: whembly wrote:Ruh oh... Iraq crisis: Isis jihadists 'seize Saddam Hussein's chemical weapons stockpile'
17.09 Chemical weapons produced at the Al Muthanna facility, which Isis today seized, are believed to have included mustard gas, Sarin, Tabun, and VX.
Here is the CIA's file on the complex.
Quote Stockpiles of chemical munitions are still stored there. The most dangerous ones have been declared to the UN and are sealed in bunkers.
Although declared, the bunkers contents have yet to be confirmed.
These areas of the compound pose a hazard to civilians and potential blackmarketers.
Numerous bunkers, including eleven cruciform shaped bunkers were exploited. Some of the bunkers were empty. Some of the bunkers contained large quantitiesof unfilled chemical munitions, conventional munitions, one-ton shipping containers, old disabled production equipment (presumed disabled under UNSCOM supervision), and other hazardous industrial chemicals.
You mean....talk about an anti-climax
U.S. officials don't believe the Sunni militants will be able to create a functional chemical weapon from the material. The weapons stockpiled at the Al Muthanna complex are old, contaminated and hard to move, officials said.
But please continue with the world threat narrative that led to this invasion and occupation disaster in the first place
They dont have to move them far to be a major factor in any moves they make... hell, if they do make a weapon, and make it as far as baghdad, or Kirkuk with them... hitting a major Iraqi city would be a big deal for anyone., and would change the face of any Western response.
Someone needs to explain to me how we can have hundreds of thousands of troops there for years, have WMDs supposedly being the freaking point of going there, and yet that still exists. Unless the crap is inert people need to be fired. I'd say impeachment proceedings need to be considered but its too late isn't it.
|
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 21:15:44
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
|
Fraz, sometimes that stuff is such a mess and the storage so bad that sealing the bunker is the cheapest and best way to handle it.
Clean up of a badly contaminated site is expensive and dangerous.
EDIT: My understanding is that if ISIS (or any other group) was to attempt to use this, they'll likely have a bunch of their own dudes doing the kickin' chicken way before they get it deployed.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/22 21:27:24
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 21:59:05
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
|
CptJake wrote:Fraz, sometimes that stuff is such a mess and the storage so bad that sealing the bunker is the cheapest and best way to handle it.
Clean up of a badly contaminated site is expensive and dangerous.
EDIT: My understanding is that if ISIS (or any other group) was to attempt to use this, they'll likely have a bunch of their own dudes doing the kickin' chicken way before they get it deployed.
They'll get the locals to do it, at the point of a gun.
|
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men.
Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/22 23:16:38
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
loki old fart wrote: CptJake wrote:Fraz, sometimes that stuff is such a mess and the storage so bad that sealing the bunker is the cheapest and best way to handle it.
Clean up of a badly contaminated site is expensive and dangerous.
EDIT: My understanding is that if ISIS (or any other group) was to attempt to use this, they'll likely have a bunch of their own dudes doing the kickin' chicken way before they get it deployed.
They'll get the locals to do it, at the point of a gun.
Jebus. Imagine if the "Good Idea Fairy" whisper to a ranking member to ISIS to give that a try.
|
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 00:35:54
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Lord of the Fleet
|
CptJake wrote:
EDIT: My understanding is that if ISIS (or any other group) was to attempt to use this, they'll likely have a bunch of their own dudes doing the kickin' chicken way before they get it deployed.
I have to point out the obvious: do you think they care? However, I'm again doubtful.
This part is a big problem: "Some of the bunkers contained large quantities of unfilled chemical munitions"
Again, the Iraqis used binary systems. The precursor chemicals are mixed in flight once the projectile is fired. While some are toxic, they are much less so and more stable than the agents are once mixed. If they're old US style chemical artillery rounds, as long as they don't beat on them with hammers once loaded, they're actually fairly idiot proof. The round has to actually be fired before the mixing process even begins.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/23 00:36:30
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 05:56:51
Subject: Re:Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Jihadin wrote:Islamist militants in Iraq have occupied Saddam Hussein's former chemical weapons production facility, which contains a stockpile of old chemical weapon, the US government has said.
US military officials don't believe the militants from the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant, also known as ISIS, would be able to create a new weapon from the stockpiles left behind at the Muthanna complex about 60 kilometres north-west of Baghdad, according to the Wall Street Journal. Nonetheless, the rapid loss of control of the key site in Iraq has unsettled US authorities after weeks of rapid gains by the Sunni militants.
"We remain concerned about the seizure of any military site by the ISIL," US State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said, according to the media outlet. "We do not believe that the complex contains CW materials of military value and it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to safely move the materials."
However, one US official said that had they known Iraq would become so destabilised after the 2011 pullout of US troop, they would not have left the stockpiles in place. ISIL, an offshoot of al-Qaeda-linked fighters in Syria, has rapidly swept through large parts of Iraq in recent weeks, undermining security in the country.
The claim that former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction and posed a threat to world security was the basis for the 2003 US invasion of Iraq. Before the invastion, the weapons at Muthanna had been found by UN inspectors but were dismantled with chemical stocks militarily useless and closed off in bunkers.
The US stressed the takeover of the site did not comprise a major military gain.
Psaki said it. I am 110% reassured. WTH does she know about Chemical Weapons.
Spokesperson for your state department.
So you believe your government's world security threat theory but now denying a simple statement issued by your state dept? Nice pick and choose there.
I interviewed Mamdouh Habib, a renditon victim who was never formally charged for any crime within detention, despite having settled out of court with the Australian government to absolve the aforementioned government of any liability in his treatment during his detention by the United States.
Which I provided more information then you. Which I admit I set you up for total failure to see what you actually know.
What are you talking about? I mentioned I spoke to a former inmate by means of informal interview at Sydney APEC 2007 rally @ hyde park sydney.
Try to read, it's not THAT hard.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote: Ensis Ferrae wrote: 44Ronin wrote: whembly wrote:Ruh oh... Iraq crisis: Isis jihadists 'seize Saddam Hussein's chemical weapons stockpile'
17.09 Chemical weapons produced at the Al Muthanna facility, which Isis today seized, are believed to have included mustard gas, Sarin, Tabun, and VX.
Here is the CIA's file on the complex.
Quote Stockpiles of chemical munitions are still stored there. The most dangerous ones have been declared to the UN and are sealed in bunkers.
Although declared, the bunkers contents have yet to be confirmed.
These areas of the compound pose a hazard to civilians and potential blackmarketers.
Numerous bunkers, including eleven cruciform shaped bunkers were exploited. Some of the bunkers were empty. Some of the bunkers contained large quantitiesof unfilled chemical munitions, conventional munitions, one-ton shipping containers, old disabled production equipment (presumed disabled under UNSCOM supervision), and other hazardous industrial chemicals.
You mean....talk about an anti-climax
U.S. officials don't believe the Sunni militants will be able to create a functional chemical weapon from the material. The weapons stockpiled at the Al Muthanna complex are old, contaminated and hard to move, officials said.
But please continue with the world threat narrative that led to this invasion and occupation disaster in the first place
They dont have to move them far to be a major factor in any moves they make... hell, if they do make a weapon, and make it as far as baghdad, or Kirkuk with them... hitting a major Iraqi city would be a big deal for anyone., and would change the face of any Western response.
Someone needs to explain to me how we can have hundreds of thousands of troops there for years, have WMDs supposedly being the freaking point of going there, and yet that still exists. Unless the crap is inert people need to be fired. I'd say impeachment proceedings need to be considered but its too late isn't it.
\
I will explain it in one sentence.
The occupation was a corrupt failure.
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/06/23 06:07:37
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 07:17:40
Subject: Re:Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
|
BaronIveagh wrote:What worries me more is the possibility that this was the real objective of the whole thing. Iraq in particular had serious issues with the shelf life of it's chemical agents. How they got around it was to keep the precursors in a binary state, extending it's storage life by decades. If, in Syria, they got their hands on one half of said binary agents, hitting Iraqi sites that might have a remaining stockpile of the other half of the equation, so to speak.
I think it's more likely that ISIS is capturing parts of Syria and Iraq to form the united state that it has always claimed it wants to form, than building all that as an elaborate front to capture exactly the right abandoned chemical weapons plants. Automatically Appended Next Post: BaronIveagh wrote:Stopping it is easy. Break their will, leave them with no desire to fight anymore. Mind you, to do that you'd need to be willing to wage 'total' war. To match and then exceed their ruthlessness and brutality. The Genghis Khan approach. If they snipe at you, you kill every man, woman, and child in the place, and leave a pyramid of their heads outside the burned out town.
It sure worked in Chechnya!
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/23 07:18:26
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 09:06:48
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Daemonic Dreadnought
|
Binary systems need methyphosphonyl diflouride aka DF as one of the 2 parts.
The shelf life of DF is 5 years.
The stockpiles are over 23 years old, most are closer to three decades old. They are inert, damaged, or contaminated, and that's what the wall street journal is reporting.
http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/sunni-extremists-in-iraq-occupy-saddams-chemical-weapons-facility-1403190600?mobile=y
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/23 09:08:14
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 09:08:37
Subject: Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Chemical weapons. Dangerous enough to invade your country, not dangerous enough to actually do anything with them once we are there...
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/23 16:33:42
Subject: Re:Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
44Ronin
You said
I interviewed Mamdouh Habib, a renditon victim who was never formally charged for any crime within detention, despite having settled out of court with the Australian government to absolve the aforementioned government of any liability in his treatment during his detention by the United States.
and now
What are you talking about? I mentioned I spoke to a former inmate by means of informal interview at Sydney APEC 2007 rally @ hyde park sydney
You said
Spokesperson for your state department.
So you believe your government's world security threat theory but now denying a simple statement issued by your state dept? Nice pick and choose there.
but missed what I said
I can see some DoS rep telling me its safe to go down in sealed harden bunkers that just been open and see what's there. I would have a very colorful reply
Depending what was stored and open down there is a crap shoot.. Some agents might be inert and activation requires moisture. One thing everyone is doing is sweating
Edit
Retired General Scales went in depth a bit more. Mostly Sarin and Mustard gas in their component states. Equipment to mix is unreliable. Anyone know if they captured something similar in Syria? 13 years its degraded. Which means it takes more of one component to make it effective. Fuel air bombs
I should have add " Drop Fuel Air Bombs". You a bit loss on Department of State credibility eh
Now you said
The occupation was a corrupt failure
Clarify the corruption. Your "fortune cookie" here
|
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/24 00:01:12
Subject: Re:Like Fallujah before it....
|
 |
Lord of the Fleet
|
sebster wrote:
I think it's more likely that ISIS is capturing parts of Syria and Iraq to form the united state that it has always claimed it wants to form, than building all that as an elaborate front to capture exactly the right abandoned chemical weapons plants.
Because the leadership strikes me as being smart enough to realize they can't win a two front war or likely hold most of the ground they've taken. So this drive into Iraq has to have had a goal besides 'charge and hope for the best.'
I'm betting they have a source of DF and are looking for a reliable dispersal system and someone formerly in Saddam's army clued them in as to where they could likely get some.
The Russians did not even come close to what I'm talking about in Chechnya. How many cities there ceased to exist? How many severed heads did they pile up?
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/24 00:02:45
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
|
|
 |
 |
|