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blaktoof wrote:

its also a modern rosetta stone so if our world gets wiped out people or aliens, or whatever can use it to figure out of some of the worlds major languages.

Well, as long as whoever did it hired professional translators to do it and didn't just Google translate the other languages. That'd be pretty unfortunate if someone was using a foreign equivalent of Engrish to try and figure out extinct languages.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

I often wonder if there were less people in the world would we value each others existence and possible individuality more than we value our need to belong to something to feel special and then force our ideals one each other.

I think, honestly if there were less people, things would be worse, rather than better... Because there'd be more reason to defend "us" against "them". I mean, look at all of the wars prior to say... 1200, and see how many of them were about that "us vs. them" mentality as opposed to where we're at now, where there are so many people, and depending on where one lives, there's some modicum of respect for the individual.

I think that's a fair point.

seems like they use mostly terror tactics, ie killing people randomly that are not them and then the next day everyone wants to "repent" and join them. Would be interesting to see how many actually join them as idealists in their army, i'm guessing not many.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/04/french-report-isil-leader-mossad/

above link is some people claiming ISIS leader is Mossad agent trained to create rogue islamic jihad group to destabilize middle east for Israel to take over. Claims further that iraq has IDed isis mortar shells as being israeli in origin, and that ISIS is using M4s as shown in some of their training videos from US make. Claims that ISIS was US/Israeli trained in Jordan.

why do I read any of this crap anywhere.

The UK/USA invasion of Iraq left the country with a hollowed out, deeply unpopular government, and a power vacuum that has been filled by ISIS. Now most dakka members know this, and some dakka member were there when it happened!

In other words, it's a mess the west created.

Now, I don't like to see people suffer, but if we follow the logic of other people, then we should be invading China.

Why? Well, thousands of innocent people are murdered every year by the Chinese state. Let's send in the marines!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

Now, I don't like to see people suffer, but if we follow the logic of other people, then we should be invading China.

Why? Well, thousands of innocent people are murdered every year by the Chinese state. Let's send in the marines!

It's sort have been tried. Douglas MacArthur had that idea. I think the last time it was tried was called the Korean War.

Haven't these guys got a lot of their weapons due to McCain convincing the Saudis to arm them?

This entire mess is disgusting.

 Da Boss wrote:
Haven't these guys got a lot of their weapons due to McCain convincing the Saudis to arm them?

This entire mess is disgusting.

Actually they got a lot of their weapons taking them from the Iraqi and Syrian armies. IIRC these are the guys who more or less wiped out the guys that the US wanted armed in Syria.

 Da Boss wrote:
Haven't these guys got a lot of their weapons due to McCain convincing the Saudis to arm them?

This entire mess is disgusting.

Nope. We never supported ISIS. It was the other guys in Syria we wanted to back.

 Da Boss wrote:
...due to McCain convincing the Saudis to arm them?

*Citation needed.

Woah...

Looks like a coup was(has?) attempted in Iraq.

Iraq’s parliament just chose a new President who refused to rename Prime Minister Nouri Kamal al-Maliki to a third term. Maliki declared the move unconstitutional and his own State of Law Party pulled support from him. Now his forces are seizing government buildings in Iraq, have closed the airport, and are surrounding the Green Zone.

His speech refusing to step down occurred at midnight and was followed by the military action.

Zaid Al-Ali @zalali
Follow
Rumour mill is spinning wildly in baghdad. people are saying that there was just an explosion in president's compound
4:36 PM - 10 Aug 2014

Hayder al-Khoei @Hayder_alKhoei
Follow
Scary reports from Baghdad. Special Forces out in force, Green Zone shut down. Heavy military presence outside Presidential palace & ISCI HQ
4:36 PM - 10 Aug 2014

#BreakingNews #Maliki: Fuad Masum, will be tried on charges of conspiring against the Constitution..! #Iraq #ISIS

Duuuuude... this may be huge! And if al-Maliki really arrests the new president (who is a Kurd I think) as threatened, that may indeed be the excuse the Kurds need to head for the exits.

The cynical voice in my is saying that a coup in Iraq would make things easy for the U.S. to abandon Maliki and deal with the Kurds exclusively from now on...

Dude, indeed. This could be big.

 whembly wrote:
Woah...

Looks like a coup was(has?) attempted in Iraq.

Iraq’s parliament just chose a new President who refused to rename Prime Minister Nouri Kamal al-Maliki to a third term. Maliki declared the move unconstitutional and his own State of Law Party pulled support from him. Now his forces are seizing government buildings in Iraq, have closed the airport, and are surrounding the Green Zone.

His speech refusing to step down occurred at midnight and was followed by the military action.

Zaid Al-Ali @zalali
Follow
Rumour mill is spinning wildly in baghdad. people are saying that there was just an explosion in president's compound
4:36 PM - 10 Aug 2014

Hayder al-Khoei @Hayder_alKhoei
Follow
Scary reports from Baghdad. Special Forces out in force, Green Zone shut down. Heavy military presence outside Presidential palace & ISCI HQ
4:36 PM - 10 Aug 2014

#BreakingNews #Maliki: Fuad Masum, will be tried on charges of conspiring against the Constitution..! #Iraq #ISIS

Duuuuude... this may be huge! And if al-Maliki really arrests the new president (who is a Kurd I think) as threatened, that may indeed be the excuse the Kurds need to head for the exits.

The cynical voice in my is saying that a coup in Iraq would make things easy for the U.S. to abandon Maliki and deal with the Kurds exclusively from now on...

What do you mean your cynical voice? Are you suggesting the USA has done this before in say...Vietnam?

 Jihadin wrote:
I do not see a justification on putting "Boots on Grounds" in Iraq. Though I can see relocating the Christians being moved to Kuwait and processed to the US as refugee's

Give (EDITED) the Kurds a bunch of stuff. Help them get to the mountain and get those people out. Then stay out.

Realistically, no reason for the US to be involved further. These are tribal proxy wars between the Gulf States and Iran. Besides the Kurds I don't see anyone in their own country breaking a sweat to keep it together.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

What do you mean your cynical voice? Are you suggesting the USA has done this before in say...Vietnam?

Carpe Diệm



Also, Egypt more recently. Maliki seems to be getting a lot of fire from the rear however. There have been calls for him to step down from within his own party at this point due to his mismanaging the situation. b The courts have also, thus far, refused ot rule against the President.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
I do not see a justification on putting "Boots on Grounds" in Iraq. Though I can see relocating the Christians being moved to Kuwait and processed to the US as refugee's

Give Kuwait a bunch of stuff. Help them get to the mountain and get those people out. Then stay out.

Realistically, no reason for the US to be involved further. These are tribal proxy wars between the Gulf States and Iran. Besides the Kurds I don't see anyone in their own country breaking a sweat to keep it together.

Frazz, it looks like you and I are the only isolationists on this thread

Is too late for us to register for the 2016 US presidential elections, and run on an anti-intervention ticket?

If you can deliver Texas, then I can guarantee that with my liberal credentials, the North will support us!

It's high time there was a third way in American politics!

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
I do not see a justification on putting "Boots on Grounds" in Iraq. Though I can see relocating the Christians being moved to Kuwait and processed to the US as refugee's

Give Kuwait a bunch of stuff. Help them get to the mountain and get those people out. Then stay out.

Realistically, no reason for the US to be involved further. These are tribal proxy wars between the Gulf States and Iran. Besides the Kurds I don't see anyone in their own country breaking a sweat to keep it together.

Frazz, it looks like you and I are the only isolationists on this thread

Is too late for us to register for the 2016 US presidential elections, and run on an anti-intervention ticket?

If you can deliver Texas, then I can guarantee that with my liberal credentials, the North will support us!

It's high time there was a third way in American politics!

2016: WienerDog Party. A steak in every bowl!

 Frazzled wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
I do not see a justification on putting "Boots on Grounds" in Iraq. Though I can see relocating the Christians being moved to Kuwait and processed to the US as refugee's

Give Kuwait a bunch of stuff. Help them get to the mountain and get those people out. Then stay out.

Realistically, no reason for the US to be involved further. These are tribal proxy wars between the Gulf States and Iran. Besides the Kurds I don't see anyone in their own country breaking a sweat to keep it together.

Get out your map of Kuwait and Iraq. Look up what the Kuwaiti military has and does not have. No way they can support the type of operation it would take to move what few forces they have those distances and be able to keep the logistics lines running for the op. For us to build them to the capability level needed would take way to long and cost way too much. As for the 'Help Them' part, what help would you be willing to give that would end up being less extensive than the limited air strikes we are currently under taking?

Sorry, did I say Kuwait? I meant The Kurds. My bad on that.

The point still stands to some extent. The Kurds would/will need air (strikes and supply drops) and intel support along with training support for anything we directly supply them. The exact same stuff we are doing now.

 CptJake wrote:
The point still stands to some extent. The Kurds would/will need air (strikes and supply drops) and intel support along with training support for anything we directly supply them. The exact same stuff we are doing now.

Which I am fine with for a short period of time. Then get out and stay out.

We've cluster ed every time we tried to do something in North Africa and the Middle East since...WWII?

I've already posted my thoughts on defined objectives/goals and how definitions of success: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/570/599907.page#7101123

Here... The roguish Islamic State roams free and persecuting Christians there!
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/08/07/iraq_christians_end_days_islamic_state_mosul?utm_content=buffer1cc67&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#trending

Nothing wrong with Islam, nor its rule.. the Sharia. the use... however should be confined to personal or specific community, not an entire polity. Christian fundamentalist plotting the same attempt to make theocratic christian state is evil to the same degree as Isis.

Christian fundamentalist plotting the same attempt to make theocratic christian state is evil to the same degree as Isis.

As soon as Christian fundamentalists declare a Christian Kingdom then you can talk. until then your statement has only a tangential link to reality in any form.

 Frazzled wrote:

Christian fundamentalist plotting the same attempt to make theocratic christian state is evil to the same degree as Isis.

As soon as Christian fundamentalists declare a Christian Kingdom and execute folks breaking their rules and extorting money from others via coercive means such as kidnapping, then you can talk. until then your statement has only a tangential link to reality in any form.

I added a bit Frazz, hope you don't mind.

 Frazzled wrote:

Christian fundamentalist plotting the same attempt to make theocratic christian state is evil to the same degree as Isis.

As soon as Christian fundamentalists declare a Christian Kingdom then you can talk. until then your statement has only a tangential link to reality in any form.

I am saying that fundamentalism is evil. no matter which religion the movement upholds.

 Lone Cat wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Christian fundamentalist plotting the same attempt to make theocratic christian state is evil to the same degree as Isis.

As soon as Christian fundamentalists declare a Christian Kingdom then you can talk. until then your statement has only a tangential link to reality in any form.

I am saying that fundamentalism is evil. no matter which religion the movement upholds.

To be fair, you really need to back that up with examples of how actions attributed to that fundamentalism justify the 'evil' label. I have not seen a lot of recent youtube videos of fundie Christians hacking off the heads of little girls.

As a fundamentalist advocate of the Great Wiener Dog, only cat lovers need fear, for they are as unclean as they are unholy.

Repent ye cat loving sinners!

 Frazzled wrote:
As a fundamentalist advocate of the Great Wiener Dog, only cat lovers need fear, for they are as unclean as they are unholy.

Repent ye cat loving sinners!

Yeah but you haven't killed any yet.

Actually, wait....

You probably have.


Never mind

 Frazzled wrote:
As a fundamentalist advocate of the Great Wiener Dog, only cat lovers need fear, for they are as unclean as they are unholy.

Repent ye cat loving sinners!

My little Stitch & Loki will resist to the very end your crazy wiener dog brigades! Hell, Loki will just devour everything in sight, since she's also part piranha-velocishark-raptor-devourerofworlds&allthingsfluffy...

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/08/11/charles-lister-sources-say-isis-battle-for-baghdad-has-begun-n1877432

Take with grain of salt. Supposedly some activity in or South of Bagdad now.

Maliki is now *blaming* the US for supporting the new Kurdish President.

What a mess...