Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The only source on this is Corax who hates Angron and thinks Horus could win.
Everything else seems to the contrary.
Angron is completely undefeated in real combat and made a joke of Guilliman and Russ.
Horus got beaten by a Custodes and doesn't seem to have much of a primarch vs primarch record.
Angron has never been overpowered by anything, and Horus? Untested.
Opinions?

Angron, every time.

In Betrayer it's suggested that Horus believes only Angron can beat Sanguinius. The fact that Horus himself killed Sanguinius in the end doesn't count for much seeing as the angel was exhausted and Horus was by that time imbued with the powers of the chaos gods.

Pre-ascension at least Angron would beat Horus, as he'd beat just about any of the other primarchs, one on one.

Angron was badly wounded by an already wounded Guilliman in single combat. He hardly made a joke of him.

Horus' abilities are indeed mostly hearsay, but I doubt it would be an easy fight.

Horus was never beat by a Custodes. It's one of those made-up fluff bits that everyone assumes happened. But I don't know who would win. I guess Horus because in game Horus beats Angron.

 Veteran of The Long War wrote:
Horus was never beat by a Custodes. It's one of those made-up fluff bits that everyone assumes happened. But I don't know who would win. I guess Horus because in game Horus beats Angron.

In game Angron also has nerfs to his Toughness, Wounds, and Save, along with lacking rage or rampage to make him more balanced.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Angron was badly wounded by an already wounded Guilliman in single combat. He hardly made a joke of him.

Horus' abilities are indeed mostly hearsay, but I doubt it would be an easy fight.

Horus would win because he's not stupid enough to get into a fight with a living buzzsaw. He would just blow Angron's ship out of the sky instead.
Or even better have another primarch's fleet do it.

And thats why he was Horus.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Angron was badly wounded by an already wounded Guilliman in single combat. He hardly made a joke of him.

Horus' abilities are indeed mostly hearsay, but I doubt it would be an easy fight.

Didn't Angron also have a mostly makeshift weapon because one of his chainsaxes broke?
Severely wounded? Don't remember that. Just remember Angron overpowering Guilliman while in the incredibly painful transitional period from "mortal" to DP.

I can't remember about the weapon, but Lorgar or the Dreadnought there noted that Guilliman gave almost as good as he got, and that Angron was only a little less beaten than Angron.

 Frazzled wrote:
living buzzsaw

That's how I've always envisioned Angron: totally unmatched in 1v1 close combat. Even Bruce Lee can't out-punch a table saw. But I suspect most of the Primarchs could beat him with a combination of dirty tricks and lateral thinking.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Veteran of The Long War wrote:
Horus was never beat by a Custodes. It's one of those made-up fluff bits that everyone assumes happened. But I don't know who would win. I guess Horus because in game Horus beats Angron.

In game Angron also has nerfs to his Toughness, Wounds, and Save, along with lacking rage or rampage to make him more balanced.

How is he unbalanced? I've run him against other primarchs and he generally runs over all of them bar Horus in a few rounds. And I disagree about him being nerfed. He's T6, like all the others, W5, which is slightly lower but is still irrelevant, and His save, while stupid (he really should have a 2+) dosent matter because all of the primarchs' weapons are AP2.

 Veteran of The Long War wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Veteran of The Long War wrote:
Horus was never beat by a Custodes. It's one of those made-up fluff bits that everyone assumes happened. But I don't know who would win. I guess Horus because in game Horus beats Angron.

In game Angron also has nerfs to his Toughness, Wounds, and Save, along with lacking rage or rampage to make him more balanced.

How is he unbalanced? I've run him against other primarchs and he generally runs over all of them bar Horus in a few rounds. And I disagree about him being nerfed. He's T6, like all the others, W5, which is slightly lower but is still irrelevant, and His save, while stupid (he really should have a 2+) dosent matter because all of the primarchs' weapons are AP2.

Never said unbalanced. Just not properly represented.
Angron in fluff is tougher than Manus, and DRAMATICALLY tougher than Alpharius.
Both of whom are tougher on tabletop.
He should cuddle with a struggle all the primarchs in CC. Horus knows he couldnt match Angron and says it himself.

No he doesn't.

Horus was supposed to be the number one in just about everything. The best one. The favored son.

It is repeated over and over in the background.


To be clear, he is by far my less favorite Primarch. He is the poster boy and I dislike poster boys. But he was the undisputed 'number one' in everything save for Sanguinius and perhaps the Lion.

 da001 wrote:
Horus was supposed to be the number one in just about everything. The best one. The favored son.

It is repeated over and over in the background.


To be clear, he is by far my less favorite Primarch. He is the poster boy and I dislike poster boys. But he was the undisputed 'number one' in everything save for Sanguinius and perhaps the Lion.

Horus is mentioned as the most balanced.......

 da001 wrote:
Horus was supposed to be the number one in just about everything. The best one. The favored son.

It is repeated over and over in the background.


To be clear, he is by far my less favorite Primarch. He is the poster boy and I dislike poster boys. But he was the undisputed 'number one' in everything save for Sanguinius and perhaps the Lion.

This is also not true.

Magnus was definitely more psychically powerful, for example.

Vulkan and Ferrus Manus were physically stronger.

Based on the FW Horus Heresy rules Horus would win in a fight against Angron due to his Talons reducing WS and S by 1 each combat and Horus having a better Invul save than Angron.

I haven't crunched the numbers in a while but I still think Horus beats all the currently listed Primarchs with Fulgrim as a close second. That being said, Horus is also the most expensive Primarch at 500 points and Angron is only 400 points.

Personally I think the only Primarch that could fight one on one with Angron and possibly win is Fulgrim. Techincal ability will beat pure rage everytime.

I think Horus was a jack of all trades, master of none (pre chaos powers)

Fulgrim?
No. Angron has more skill with melee anyway, on top of being immensely stronger and tougher.
Magnus could though.
Definitely not in melee though.

Angron was a fool... Angron was weak....

Oh wait a minute....

 Supertony51 wrote:
Personally I think the only Primarch that could fight one on one with Angron and possibly win is Fulgrim. Techincal ability will beat pure rage everytime.

I think Horus was a jack of all trades, master of none (pre chaos powers)

Not quite true. There were lots of things Horus was very good or nigh-peerless at, and a few things he sucked at. He was the best diplomat and orator of the Primarchs for example, with only maybe Lorgar rivaling him in the latter, yet he also seemed to have some of the least realized psychic potential (Until fueled by Chaos, obviously). He was allegedly one of the most skilled fighters, though admittedly this is based mostly on hearsay.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Angron was a fool... Angron was weak....

Oh wait a minute....

From the mouth of a Saturday morning cartoon villian.
I'd watch the crap out of that show though.

No one is Angron's equal in close combat, but he's limited beyond that.

SIDE RANT: And no, I don't think the DP versions are stronger than their original Primarch forms. It's the whole Jedi v. Sith argument: one is a short-term power gain, where one gives up much of what makes him or her great for a tentacle and some force lightning. Less focus, martial discipline, training, selflessness, courage, etc., in exchange for a few powers and a set of wings. Plus, Chaos is fickle, and the deities don't really reward any of their champions. Perils effect their own champions as much as anyone else. They promise everything, but instead leave the follower nothing more than a forever tortured shell of what they used to be.

I think Sanguinius may be the finest technical swordsman. Chaos sought hardest to corrupt him, and that's perhaps why he sacrificed himself at the hands of Horus.

With the exception of Corax I don't think anyone has compared horus to angron, although if I remember correctly corax merely said that none but horus or possibly sanguinius could hope to match him.I don't recall him outright saying horus would win, it always seems to come down to these three being the best in combat although Dorn in an egotistical moment sees himself as being capable of destroying angron easily

Ceann Fine wrote:
With the exception of Corax I don't think anyone has compared horus to angron, although if I remember correctly corax merely said that none but horus or possibly sanguinius could hope to match him.I don't recall him outright saying horus would win, it always seems to come down to these three being the best in combat although Dorn in an egotistical moment sees himself as being capable of destroying angron easily

He then gets cuddled to pieces by the night haunter.

 brassangel wrote:
No one is Angron's equal in close combat, but he's limited beyond that.

SIDE RANT: And no, I don't think the DP versions are stronger than their original Primarch forms. It's the whole Jedi v. Sith argument: one is a short-term power gain, where one gives up much of what makes him or her great for a tentacle and some force lightning. Less focus, martial discipline, training, selflessness, courage, etc., in exchange for a few powers and a set of wings. Plus, Chaos is fickle, and the deities don't really reward any of their champions. Perils effect their own champions as much as anyone else. They promise everything, but instead leave the follower nothing more than a forever tortured shell of what they used to be.

I think Sanguinius may be the finest technical swordsman. Chaos sought hardest to corrupt him, and that's perhaps why he sacrificed himself at the hands of Horus.

I think the dp version would be weaker. Someone who doesn't die timelines don't matter nothing ever changing. Would drain your drive to thrive.

 brassangel wrote:
No one is Angron's equal in close combat, but he's limited beyond that.

SIDE RANT: And no, I don't think the DP versions are stronger than their original Primarch forms. It's the whole Jedi v. Sith argument: one is a short-term power gain, where one gives up much of what makes him or her great for a tentacle and some force lightning. Less focus, martial discipline, training, selflessness, courage, etc., in exchange for a few powers and a set of wings. Plus, Chaos is fickle, and the deities don't really reward any of their champions. Perils effect their own champions as much as anyone else. They promise everything, but instead leave the follower nothing more than a forever tortured shell of what they used to be.

I think Sanguinius may be the finest technical swordsman. Chaos sought hardest to corrupt him, and that's perhaps why he sacrificed himself at the hands of Horus.

Yeah, that is true.. But haven't you always wanted to be immortal?

OgreChubbs wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
No one is Angron's equal in close combat, but he's limited beyond that.

SIDE RANT: And no, I don't think the DP versions are stronger than their original Primarch forms. It's the whole Jedi v. Sith argument: one is a short-term power gain, where one gives up much of what makes him or her great for a tentacle and some force lightning. Less focus, martial discipline, training, selflessness, courage, etc., in exchange for a few powers and a set of wings. Plus, Chaos is fickle, and the deities don't really reward any of their champions. Perils effect their own champions as much as anyone else. They promise everything, but instead leave the follower nothing more than a forever tortured shell of what they used to be.

I think Sanguinius may be the finest technical swordsman. Chaos sought hardest to corrupt him, and that's perhaps why he sacrificed himself at the hands of Horus.

I think the dp version would be weaker. Someone who doesn't die timelines don't matter nothing ever changing. Would drain your drive to thrive.

In any normal being, yes. But Angron is not seeking betterment nor to improve his skill. He simply wants to right the wrongs done to him, by slaying his enemies brutally and then getting the death he so longingly desires and will never have.
He fights only to kill and destroy what the Emperor created and to slay those that oppose him. And with an unlimited lifespan he won't forget those who beat him.

The only people who ever say Horus is the best at anything are the Sons of Horus and so that can be discounted basically entirely as all legions say that about their Primarchs.

jakejackjake wrote:
The only people who ever say Horus is the best at anything are the Sons of Horus and so that can be discounted basically entirely as all legions say that about their Primarchs.

And all the Primarchs bar Horus himself, who says Sanguinius.

 Deadshot wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:
The only people who ever say Horus is the best at anything are the Sons of Horus and so that can be discounted basically entirely as all legions say that about their Primarchs.

And all the Primarchs bar Horus himself, who says Sanguinius.

Sources? Cause naw.

All I've ever seen people say is "he was the best of us" which not only says nothing except "everybody thought he was cool", but it doesn't even imply anything else.