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So im looking at creating a custom space marine chapter, however the way i want to play them the current rules wont allow,
However there are several other chapters and special characters that bend or just flat out allow the player to ignore certain rules.
What i want is to have my chapter be able to take assault marines as troops with the deep strike special rule, and allow all of
my army to assault out of drop pods. The idea is they are set up in the principle of a total surprise attack. I was thinking the
Assault marines with mods would be similar to the grey knight interceptor squads in play style and in point cost. I was wondering
what would the point increase on assault drop pods be. I would also like my assault squads to be able to take lightning claws or
is that just too much? So yeah in black and white i want to know what would be a fair point increase to allow my units to assault out
of drop pods, and is making assault units with lightning claws and deepstrike over powered? I mean EVERY grey knight takes a
force weapon that can cause instant death and storm bolter so i dont think its too out there. Thoughts and advice very welcome.

Is this something you'd do strictly with friends? If so, then there is nothing stopping you from doing this.

Yea the assault thing out of a drop pod is way to much, theirs absolutely no risk, and first turn assault out of pods is way over the top

Assault marines with lightning claws is fine, they are generally referred to as vanguard vets these days though, Wouldn't it be more sound to have a special character or chapter tactics that unlocked scoring vanguard vets ?

Yes grey knights have the most specialized gear, force weapons and stormbolters, they are also 20 pts standard, have no access to drop pods, die like regular marines, people are quite aware they have force weapons and don't generally charge multi wound models into them carelessly, and tbh strike marines function poorly as a assault force due to cost, single attack, and delivery method

Take away the no-mishap rule from a drop pod.
Make assault count as disordered charge when disembarked from a pod.
Increase pod's cost to 70 pts.

You must have other restrictions like limited heavy support choices. For example, no tfc and stuff like that. Probably, you should look at Legions rules in HH for inspiration. There' was something about pod assault (not mellee but a pod-themed army).

No lightning claws for regular asm. If you want customizable mellee gear - go with vanguard vets.

Yes this would be something only done in friendly games, and id explain all the rule changes to any new player i was against before hand.

I was thinking about something along these lines, Not exactly doubling the price of the pod but maybe putting it at like 50 points instead of 35 and i agree a disordered charge and restrictions to walkers and infantry. I was also considering maybe saying that the assault pods dont have a weapon inside. Or they have a one time use weapon like a hunter killer missile or something like that. Another thought i had is that they have like assault grenades so to speak, Like on the turn they land and the doors are blown open they sling a bunch of flash bangs in each direction so any enemy unit within 10in that is assaulted are denied over watch on the turn the drop pod lands. But the pod would then have no other weapons and be essentially terrain at that point. Or maybe have a profile like all enemy models within 10in suffer a STR 4 AP - Hit with the blind special rule? Just more thoughts.

And as noted above that was something i planned on doing, maybe making special chapter tactics that allow assault out of drop pods and then making a character that would allow me to take vangaurd vets as troops or something of that nature. Id say the character would be similar to Shrike in ability and point cost. Also was thinking that maybe my assault and normal troops would be WS 5 and BS 3 and only take bolt pistols or flamers as shooty weapons but gain (or regain) the ability to consolidate into another close combat if they win combat. And use that as either a chapter tactic or a skill a certain HQ gives the army.

Assault on the turn you arrive is unique and gamebreaking thus must cost appropriately and have severe restrictions. Not 50 points + no-overwatch.

 koooaei wrote:
Assault on the turn you arrive is unique and gamebreaking thus must cost appropriately and have severe restrictions. Not 50 points + no-overwatch.

so 85 points for the pod with either a blind or some time of assault grenades that are one time use.... does that sound about fair.

How about:

a) Roll D6 on a 5+ they can assault from drop pods.
b) Because you're travelling such a distance, Assaulted units can fire overwatch as full BS.

 Tigurius wrote:
How about:

a) Roll D6 on a 5+ they can assault from drop pods.
b) Because you're travelling such a distance, Assaulted units can fire overwatch as full BS.

well i was trying to come up with a way to assault out of a drop pod without the ground unit getting overwatch. im just having a hard time coming up with a point cost or drawback that is good enough to balance it and still affordable enough to build an effective army around the theme ya know.

It's fundamentally gamebreaking unfortunately.

So the only real way i see to balance it is to let the assaulted unit get overwatch at full BS, that way my unit assaulting still has to endure a round of shooting before they get into close combat,

So something like this

Assault Drop Pod: 65 Points
Unit Type: Vehicle ( Open Topped, Transport)

Wargear: Stormbolter or Deathwind Missile Launcher

WS 4
F- 12
S- 12
R- 12
HP-3
Special Rules:

Transport Capacity: 10 Models, Assault Drop Pods may carry 10 infantry, 5 Bulky Infantry, or 1 Dreadnought. No
Other units are allowed to take Assault Drop Pods as a transport (i.e. thunderfire cannon)
Once the Drop Pod has landed the hatches are blown and all passengers must immediately disembark. Once
passengers have disembarked, no models can embark the drop pod the rest of the game.

Immobile: A Drop Pod cannot move once it has entered play and counts in all respects as a vehicle that as suffered
and immobilized damage result that cannot be repaired in any way. Note this does not cause it to lose a Hull Point.

Drop Pod Assault: At the beginning of your first turn select up to half (rounded up) of your drop pods and deploy them
via deepstrike special rule. The remainder of your drop pods arrive from reserve as normal.

Assault Drop Pod: A unit embarked in an assault drop pod may assault the turn they arrive via deepstrike after they
have disembarked from a vehicle. Any charge conducted on the same turn as the unit arrives via assault drop pod is
automatically considered a disordered charge. Furthermore the unit being charged maybe fire over watch at a maximum of BS 3 instead
of BS 6.If the firing unit's BS is less than 3 they fire at the highest BS available up to 3. Weapons that may not be snap fired are
still unable to fire over watch (i.e. missile launchers, plasma cannons, ect.)

thoughts?

Drop pods are now very good at securing objectives. this would be something you can change to make it better.

my suggestion:

Assault Drop pod: any non-dreadnaught unit can take an assault drop pod (dreads assaulting the turn they arrive is too nasty. seems fair they'd take too long to get out of the pod).

make it AV11 on all sides instead of AV12. bigger doors, more vulnerable bits.

an alternative is this:

make it an assault vehicle, and remove the stipulation that you have to get out on arrival. drop in, weather the shots, get out and charge. not a turn 1 assault but it prevents people from using anti-infantry firepower against you. make sure to note that the pod isn't open-topped until it opens, or flamers'll get you.

making units fire at BS3 when overwatching is great for orks, better than normal


another option would be to use a rule similar to necron deathmarks have to arrive during your opponents turn. if you arrive at the start of their shooting phase they'll still get their turn of shooting, but you can assault. as they have already moved, you can hide behind the pod or something.

i like your idea however dreadnoughts move just as fast as regular infantry, 6 inches, so i dont see why it would take them longer to disembark.
I do like the idea of it being able to stay closed and then assault out on the next turn, however if that were the case wouldnt the AV be higher?
I mean im giving up MY chance to shoot by not disembarking on the turn i come in. So it could be like AV 14 when it is closed and when it opens
it drops to AV 12 and becomes open topped? that way it can drop in, be shot at by whatever and live through it and then the next turn disembark, shoot
then assault? And yeah i guess horde armys getting BS 3 on overwatch, thats alot of shots. I think i like this alot better, and i can employ my flashbang
theory again

so it would be

Assault Pod: 65 points
'
WS: 4
F: 12 (14 Closed)
S: 12 (14 Closed)
R: 12 (14 Closed)
HP: 3

Immobile
Drop Pod Assault

Models do not have to disembark the turn the drop pod comes into play, if the unit do not diembark the first turn the drop pod comes into play
when they disembark the drop pod counts as an assault vehicle with the open topped special rule.

Assault Grenades. Any enemy models within 10 inches of the drop pod when it opens suffer a STR 5 AP - hit with the blind special rule.

you're suffering from "It must be great!" syndrome. you're trying to make this thing an amazing piece of kit and really it needs to be tamed a bit. AV14 requires a set-up to deal with, usually warranting meltas and as meltas are short ranged, you need a melta delivery system. I've only seen an AV14 all round vehicle fall on the first turn to a unit that was on the field to start with once, and that was pot luck from a lascannon. they usually need drop-podding meltas, or bikes with meltas, or powerklaw trukks - some sort of delivery system. if you can pay as little as 140 points for an AV14 vehicle that starts in enemy lines, that's too good. then you've added blinding effects on 24" bubbles (10" from a 4" round vehicle) you're basically crippling half an opponents army with 2 of these things.

give it the large-blast blind weapon the landspeeder storm has, leave it as AV12 (3 HP not open topped AV12 is good enough for 65 points), make it an assault vehicle when it opens and say that any unit that was hit by the blinding blast and is subsequently assaulted by the unit that disembarked cannot overwatch if it failed its blinding test.

this way it's not going to win you the game with its rules, but it gives you some options. get out and shoot or stay in then charge.

 some bloke wrote:
you're suffering from "It must be great!" syndrome. you're trying to make this thing an amazing piece of kit and really it needs to be tamed a bit. AV14 requires a set-up to deal with, usually warranting meltas and as meltas are short ranged, you need a melta delivery system. I've only seen an AV14 all round vehicle fall on the first turn to a unit that was on the field to start with once, and that was pot luck from a lascannon. they usually need drop-podding meltas, or bikes with meltas, or powerklaw trukks - some sort of delivery system. if you can pay as little as 140 points for an AV14 vehicle that starts in enemy lines, that's too good. then you've added blinding effects on 24" bubbles (10" from a 4" round vehicle) you're basically crippling half an opponents army with 2 of these things.

give it the large-blast blind weapon the landspeeder storm has, leave it as AV12 (3 HP not open topped AV12 is good enough for 65 points), make it an assault vehicle when it opens and say that any unit that was hit by the blinding blast and is subsequently assaulted by the unit that disembarked cannot overwatch if it failed its blinding test.

this way it's not going to win you the game with its rules, but it gives you some options. get out and shoot or stay in then charge.

this sounds great to me, i knew what i was coming up with was a little broken thats why i asked for help with the balance. I appreciate the brainstorming with you guys this is what i was looking for tho. I like how it gives you options as you said. Get out turn one and shoot or sit tight for a turn then assault. I was thinking the large blast blind weapon that is on the dark talon that the dark angels have im not familliar with the one on the land speeder (i dont use them i think its a god awful model) but i can look it up....... ok i found it, its only STR 2 where as the bomb is STR 5- i guess STR 2 is enough seeing as how its the WS 1 that i want anyway i dont need the bomb to cause wounds.
SO



Assault Drop Pod: 65 Points
Unit Type: Vehicle ( Open Topped*, Transport, Assault*)

Wargear: Stormbolter or Deathwind Missile Launcher
Cerberus Launcher

WS 4
F- 12
S- 12
R- 12
HP-3
Special Rules:

Transport Capacity: 10 Models, Assault Drop Pods may carry 10 infantry, 5 Bulky Infantry, or 1 Dreadnought. No
Other units are allowed to take Assault Drop Pods as a transport (i.e. thunderfire cannon)

Immobile: A Drop Pod cannot move once it has entered play and counts in all respects as a vehicle that as suffered
and immobilized damage result that cannot be repaired in any way. Note this does not cause it to lose a Hull Point.

Drop Pod Assault: At the beginning of your first turn select up to half (rounded up) of your drop pods and deploy them
via deepstrike special rule. The remainder of your drop pods arrive from reserve as normal.

Assault Drop Pod: A unit embarked in an assault drop pod may choose to either disembark the turn the drop pod lands or stay in the drop pod until the next turn.
If the unit chooses to stay in the drop pod the drop pod is not counted as an open topped vehicle until the unit disembarks, furthermore the unit is allowed to shoot
and assault the turn it chooses to disembark. Any unit blinded by the drop pod's cerberus luncher and then assaulted by the unit that disembarked from the drop
pod is denied its overwatch.

Unbound BA list using Vanguard with jump packs could get you a turn two deepstrike assault.

Codex Marine Vanguard can come in out of a drop pod with lightning claws. But they'd have to withstand a turn of shooting before they assault.

Forgeworld Fire Hawks chapter traits give Vanguard Vets scoring in 6ed so Objective Secured in 7ed?

Any of those would get you close. Otherwise you'd need to house rule it to get exactly the army you are talking about.

If you take away the drop pods ability to not mishap and added the ability to assault out of it that would seem balanced (to me anyway), i always thought a 35 point armor 12 vehicle that grants immunity to mishaps was little ridiculous, and frankly logic defying. My metal teardrop can avoid terrain but trained paratroopers cant? What the hell?

Alow the assult, make the pod 50 pints it miss happs if it hits dangerous train and the unit that assaults out of it cannot shot. the charge out of the pod is counts as a disordered charge through difficult Train. The drop pod can only be taken by infrenty... if you look there is a modle from forgworld that dose just this and it is 50 points to feild

How about you allow them assault, but only roll 1 d6 for determining charge, still apply the -2 for difficult terrain, no firing of pistols or similar weapons if you decide to charge, and an -2 Initiative penalty.

 Hashbeth wrote:
How about you allow them assault, but only roll 1 d6 for determining charge, still apply the -2 for difficult terrain, no firing of pistols or similar weapons if you decide to charge, and an -2 Initiative penalty.

Possibly coupled with a special rule that lets you deep strike into units, counting as tank shocking?

you've got (what I assume is) a typo in the rules, which allows you to assault if you get out on arrival, despite obviously intending that you do so only if you stay in to pod for a turn. have you considered applying for a job writing for GW?

good call on choosing the S2 rather than the S5 option.

so a few tweaks to the wording to ensure that you have to disembark the turn after (can't sit inside for several turns) and that you can only assault turn 2, and I think this is pretty good for 65 points. the fact that the unit does nothing the turn it arrives is what makes it balanced.

It's been good brainstorming with you!