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As far as the UK goes the financial sector is as big as it ever was, despite four years of the government supposedly wanting to rebalance the economy away from finance.
Of course the reason why the UK still has such a large financial sector is that out of the four major banking groups, three effectively went bust but were bailed out by the UK government (in Barclays case by middle eastern sovereign wealth funds.)
If the government had adopted the strategy suggested by Joseph Stigler, which was to tell the banks to sort out their own problems, the finance section would have shrunk a lot.
In effect the risk taking of finance was transferred to the citizenry.
Kilkrazy wrote: In effect the risk taking of finance was transferred to the citizenry.
Exactly.
The next time it happens"won't be long now". The depositors will pick up the tab, as in Cyprus.
P,S. good video
Automatically Appended Next Post: I prefer this one.
No 1 in a series of videos.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/29 18:40:58
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
Ireland is going to be suffering the effects of socialising the debts of it's banks and therefore protecting private "risk takers" (hah!) for the next 30 years at minimum, which is 1 third the current lifetime of Ireland as an independent state.
What a complete joke.
Honestly makes me wish our paramilitary organisations would do something useful for a change.
I am not optimistic about Europe's future if the bugbear of the financial sector cannot be tackled, and the UK is a major roadblock in that regard, so I look forward to them leaving the Union.
Da Boss wrote: Ireland is going to be suffering the effects of socialising the debts of it's banks and therefore protecting private "risk takers" (hah!) for the next 30 years at minimum, which is 1 third the current lifetime of Ireland as an independent state.
What a complete joke.
Honestly makes me wish our paramilitary organisations would do something useful for a change.
I am not optimistic about Europe's future if the bugbear of the financial sector cannot be tackled, and the UK is a major roadblock in that regard, so I look forward to them leaving the Union.
As do I. And I'm British.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/29 23:09:55
Da Boss wrote: I am not optimistic about Europe's future if the bugbear of the financial sector cannot be tackled, and the UK is a major roadblock in that regard, so I look forward to them leaving the Union.
Yeah, sure.
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think the current EU Commission President may be a former prime minister of a tax haven where bank secrecy still exists.
Every body should have done as Iceland did, told the banks to sort it out themselves.
This mess cannot be stopped, but it can be survived in reasonable comfort.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
loki old fart wrote: Every body should have done as Iceland did, told the banks to sort it out themselves.
But it's to big to fail! TO BIG TO FAIL!
Yeah right This is good russell brand on rt keiser report, talking about revolution
. A lot of people think its coming.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
Encouraging people to rely on social media to organise protest is pretty incredulous if they do believe a big revolution is coming. Why would people think that these avenues would remain open to public access?
I know that sounds a bit tinfoil hat, but it's just in response to the "revolution imminent" frame of mind.
loki old fart wrote: Every body should have done as Iceland did, told the banks to sort it out themselves.
Iceland made the right choice given their specific circumstances. But their specific circumstances involved large debts that were almost entirely offshore, and similarly large amounts of deposits by non-nationals in government owned banks. They were able to walk away from those merchant banks without tanking their own retail banking or housing sector. Iceland made the right choice given their circumstances, and good luck to them.
For the US, UK and others that had a much more complex problem, it's false to argue they should have just done the same as Iceland. The consequences would have been vastly different.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
loki old fart wrote: Every body should have done as Iceland did, told the banks to sort it out themselves.
Iceland made the right choice given their specific circumstances. But their specific circumstances involved large debts that were almost entirely offshore, and similarly large amounts of deposits by non-nationals in government owned banks. They were able to walk away from those merchant banks without tanking their own retail banking or housing sector. Iceland made the right choice given their circumstances, and good luck to them.
For the US, UK and others that had a much more complex problem, it's false to argue they should have just done the same as Iceland. The consequences would have been vastly different.
The consequences of what they did and didn't do are still with us. They did put the financial heath of the country at risk with debt.
The austerity measures leading to under fed children, people needing to visit food banks. The rate of evictions and suicides up.
They didn't prosecute the bankers for fraud, They didn't legislate to make it impossible too do this again.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
Well, the logo has that that awful white-on-red color scheme, with some old fashioned hat nobody under 80 has any right associating with and the group is called the "Renegade Economist" . You combine that with the title and I'm just going to assume this is a bunch of neckbeard-ascendant level "Smarter than the mainstream" bull honkey. Didn't watch. But i'll give it a 3/10, the extra two is for the gold standard, sheeple.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/07/01 11:06:17
Chongara wrote: Well, the logo has that that awful white-on-red color scheme, with some old fashioned nobody under 80 has any right associating with and the group is called the "Renegade Economist" . You combine that with the title and I'm just going to assume this is a bunch of neckbeard-ascendant level "Smarter than the mainstream" bull honkey. Didn't watch. But i'll give it a 3/10, the extra two is for the gold standard, sheeple.
So basically your whole post was irrelevant.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
Had more substance and relevance in it than the majority of OT posts.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
loki old fart wrote: The consequences of what they did and didn't do are still with us.
Of course there were consequences from the chosen course of action. What I said was that the consequences of choosing not to bail out the banks would have been vastly different (ie catastrophically severe) compared to Iceland.
The austerity measures leading to under fed children, people needing to visit food banks. The rate of evictions and suicides up.
Austerity is straight up terrible policy. I had a thread running for a while here on dakka going through each part of the collapse of the academic foundations for austerity.
But the bail out and austerity are not related. Choosing one doesn't mean you also have to do the other.
They didn't prosecute the bankers for fraud, They didn't legislate to make it impossible too do this again.
Both of which should have happened, but in neither case was the bail out the reason they weren't enacted.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chongara wrote: Well, the logo has that that awful white-on-red color scheme, with some old fashioned nobody under 80 has any right associating with and the group is called the "Renegade Economist" .
Oh, it's those guys? They're pro-gold standard, and therefore complete nutters with nothing useful to say about anything. There's nothing to see here people.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/01 07:38:06
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
loki old fart wrote: The consequences of what they did and didn't do are still with us.
Of course there were consequences from the chosen course of action. What I said was that the consequences of choosing not to bail out the banks would have been vastly different (ie catastrophically severe) compared to Iceland.
The austerity measures leading to under fed children, people needing to visit food banks. The rate of evictions and suicides up.
Austerity is straight up terrible policy. I had a thread running for a while here on dakka going through each part of the collapse of the academic foundations for austerity.
But the bail out and austerity are not related. Choosing one doesn't mean you also have to do the other.
They didn't prosecute the bankers for fraud, They didn't legislate to make it impossible too do this again.
Both of which should have happened, but in neither case was the bail out the reason they weren't enacted.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chongara wrote: Well, the logo has that that awful white-on-red color scheme, with some old fashioned nobody under 80 has any right associating with and the group is called the "Renegade Economist" .
Oh, it's those guys? They're pro-gold standard, and therefore complete nutters with nothing useful to say about anything. There's nothing to see here people.
So your prefer your currency backed by what.? fantasy ? A set of numbers made up because they look good?
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
Kilkrazy wrote: Currency isn't a thing, it is a belief that the medium of exchange actually will be exchangeable for something useful in the future.
As such it depends on the confidence level of the public in the indefinite sustainability of the general basis of economic life.
Exactly, your currency has value, because I think it has. My currency has value, because you think it has. Value based on confidence.
But which would you prefer.
10,000 in paper money?
10,000 in gold or silver?
!0,000 in land or property?
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
Kilkrazy wrote: Currency isn't a thing, it is a belief that the medium of exchange actually will be exchangeable for something useful in the future.
As such it depends on the confidence level of the public in the indefinite sustainability of the general basis of economic life.
But which would you prefer.
10,000 in paper money?
10,000 in gold or silver?
!0,000 in land or property?
Well. 10,000 in Gold and/or Silver is extremely prone to being stolen. So I'm either going to have to pay hefty storage fees, or invest in some kind of security. The prices aren't the most stable thing in world and I personally have my sights on short term savings (~5 Years) when I'm going to need my money free to spend.
Land is nice but $10,000 is either going to buy me a postage stamp, or something pretty marginal and out of the way. I'm not going to be able to use it for much and depending on the land I may even have responsibilities towards up-keeping it. I'm not familiar enough with property tax around to know how much of an exposure that is, but it's a consideration. Not to mention squatters. This is a poor choice.
Paper money is the best option so far. It's easy to store and I'm already familiar with the process of storing it (putting it in the bank), I'm already familiar with my tax liabilities with regards to receiving cash and the US Dollar is pretty stable. Assuming I do nothing but let it sit I can at least earn some marginal interest, even if I'm losing out a bit against inflation.
sebster wrote: Oh, it's those guys? They're pro-gold standard, and therefore complete nutters with nothing useful to say about anything. There's nothing to see here people.
Boom! Called it. Boom!. Oh yeah! Boom! Didn't watch the video! Boom! Never ever heard of them! Boom! Oh Yeah! Boom! Never trust an old fashioned hat! Boom! Take that neckbeards! Boom! Where's your Ron Paul now? Boom!
So your prefer your currency backed by what.? fantasy ? A set of numbers made up because they look good?
How about a national storehouse of Ron Paul's pubes?
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/07/01 11:05:51
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/01 11:56:59
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
1. Gold is a PITA and costs money to store. It is declining in value recently so the £10,000 will probably be less by the time I can convert it to actual cash.
3. £10,000 of property is not very much in the UK, and has the problems and costs of converting it to cash. For example a piece of land worth £10,000 will cost you probably around £500 to sell.
Whereas cash in the bank is as safe as British society (up to the value of £85,000), can accumulate a little bit of interest, and be easily spent.
I think the gold bugs have lost sight of problems associated with gold and the advantages of fiat currency. It didn't become the world standard because of being a massively clever con trick.
Da Boss wrote: Honestly makes me wish our paramilitary organisations would do something useful for a change.
Having lived through it I am going to respectfully disagree
He said British and paramilitary. Thats funny. What do you guys have, claymores? (or at least until the Scots secede and take the Claymores too).
Here's a treat, if you want to see what life is like without financial institutions, look to the middle ages, or your lesser advanced countries in the Middle East.
loki old fart wrote: Every body should have done as Iceland did, told the banks to sort it out themselves.
Iceland made the right choice given their specific circumstances. But their specific circumstances involved large debts that were almost entirely offshore, and similarly large amounts of deposits by non-nationals in government owned banks. They were able to walk away from those merchant banks without tanking their own retail banking or housing sector. Iceland made the right choice given their circumstances, and good luck to them.
For the US, UK and others that had a much more complex problem, it's false to argue they should have just done the same as Iceland. The consequences would have been vastly different.
The consequences of what they did and didn't do are still with us. They did put the financial heath of the country at risk with debt.
The austerity measures leading to under fed children, people needing to visit food banks. The rate of evictions and suicides up.
They didn't prosecute the bankers for fraud, They didn't legislate to make it impossible too do this again.
As a competitor, I'm all for you crushing your domestic banks. Less comeptition. Hear hear!
loki old fart wrote: The consequences of what they did and didn't do are still with us.
Of course there were consequences from the chosen course of action. What I said was that the consequences of choosing not to bail out the banks would have been vastly different (ie catastrophically severe) compared to Iceland.
The austerity measures leading to under fed children, people needing to visit food banks. The rate of evictions and suicides up.
Austerity is straight up terrible policy. I had a thread running for a while here on dakka going through each part of the collapse of the academic foundations for austerity.
But the bail out and austerity are not related. Choosing one doesn't mean you also have to do the other.
They didn't prosecute the bankers for fraud, They didn't legislate to make it impossible too do this again.
Both of which should have happened, but in neither case was the bail out the reason they weren't enacted.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chongara wrote: Well, the logo has that that awful white-on-red color scheme, with some old fashioned nobody under 80 has any right associating with and the group is called the "Renegade Economist" .
Oh, it's those guys? They're pro-gold standard, and therefore complete nutters with nothing useful to say about anything. There's nothing to see here people.
So your prefer your currency backed by what.? fantasy ? A set of numbers made up because they look good?
So you want to go back to the gold standard? As Scotty would say "how quaint." Gold is just a commodity like anything else.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/01 12:49:36
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
What gives Gold an intrinsic value? Answer, nothing more than what gives paper "fiat" money intrinsic value. Just trust that it has value.
If a real catasrophic crisis came people would value canned goods, firearms, and ammo way more than gold. Therefore, we should back all our currency with canned goods.
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Easy E wrote: What gives Gold an intrinsic value? Answer, nothing more than what gives paper "fiat" money intrinsic value. Just trust that it has value.
If a real catasrophic crisis came people would value canned goods, firearms, and ammo way more than gold. Therefore, we should back all our currency with canned goods.
Hmmm... I like the idea of paying for groceries with bullets. I've got a lot of shotgun shells just not being used.
