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Easy E wrote: What gives Gold an intrinsic value? Answer, nothing more than what gives paper "fiat" money intrinsic value. Just trust that it has value.
If a real catasrophic crisis came people would value canned goods, firearms, and ammo way more than gold. Therefore, we should back all our currency with canned goods.
Easy E wrote: What gives Gold an intrinsic value? Answer, nothing more than what gives paper "fiat" money intrinsic value. Just trust that it has value.
If a real catasrophic crisis came people would value canned goods, firearms, and ammo way more than gold. Therefore, we should back all our currency with canned goods.
Wait...you don't?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Easy E wrote: What gives Gold an intrinsic value? Answer, nothing more than what gives paper "fiat" money intrinsic value. Just trust that it has value.
If a real catasrophic crisis came people would value canned goods, firearms, and ammo way more than gold. Therefore, we should back all our currency with canned goods.
The most interesting idea yet.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
Just a caution. I'm not an economist, but making currency based on something that's actually useful could have interesting effects.
I am reminded of a setting of a RPG where iron was used as currency (since it could actually be used to forge something, unlike gold which really is useless until you're a society advanced enough to produce low resistance electrical connectors.). The necessity of making basic equipment cheap enough to be affordable resulted in a sword being worth more when melted down and reforged into iron pieces than it actually could be sold for as a sword.
Obviously the above example is absurd and nothing like that would actually happen in everyday life, but the problem with using useful material as currency is that...well...people need to use it. And usually once something has been used it wouldn't be much good as currency anymore.
In an apocalypse survival situation you want stuff you can use, but in any other situation I'd rather have whatever purchasing mechanism has the strongest guarantee of value behind it.
Like watching other people play video games (badly) while blathering about nothing in particular? Check out my Youtube channel: joemamaUSA!
BrianDavion wrote: Between the two of us... I think GW is assuming we the players are not complete idiots.
Rapidly on path to becoming the world's youngest bitter old man.
loki old fart wrote: So your prefer your currency backed by what.? fantasy ? A set of numbers made up because they look good?
Fiat currency is 'backed' by the goods and services that individuals need and want. Involving some other resource doesn't actually achieve anything.
loki old fart wrote: Exactly, your currency has value, because I think it has. My currency has value, because you think it has. Value based on confidence. But which would you prefer. 10,000 in paper money? 10,000 in gold or silver? !0,000 in land or property?
In an economy that is functioning, the first is the optimum storage for money kept for short term consumption spending (the latter is a good option for long term investment, while gold is a good option if you need to buy your wife something nice for your anniversary but otherwise useless).
In an economy that is functioning so poorly that paper money is no longer a good option for short term consumption, then the other two options will be equally useless.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
dementedwombat wrote: Obviously the above example is absurd and nothing like that would actually happen in everyday life, but the problem with using useful material as currency is that...well...people need to use it. And usually once something has been used it wouldn't be much good as currency anymore.
Actually, that exact example did happen. The need for gold as a backing to currency drew vast amounts of gold in to the reserve banks, pumping up the price and actually making it too expensive for use.
And contrary to the modern myth, gold doesn't produce a stable currency - has anyone been watching the price of gold? Sure over the very long term you get only a slow appreciation, but in the short term you get price spikes and long periods of price declines, which would amount to economic disaster.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/07/02 02:48:06
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
I don't believe the paper money is being over-printed.
Really
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
We're basically carrying our money in wheelbarrows at this point.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
Am I the only guy here who thinks money isn't going away any time soon?
Besides, gold as a currency is useless, you can't store it digitally, goodbye internet banking and well, modern world everything. Gold currency would slow down every economy to a crawl.
When you have Sovereign Citizens, Doomsday Preppers, BNP Supporters, people that voted UKIP, fans of Geert Wilders, and people who think Silvio Berlusconi is a good man, you're not allowed to be surprised at people wanting gold as currency.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/02 10:50:16
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
MrDwhitey wrote: When you have Sovereign Citizens, Doomsday Preppers, BNP Supporters, people that voted UKIP, fans of Geert Wilders, and people who think Silvio Berlusconi is a good man, you're not allowed to be surprised at people wanting gold as currency.
No, but I am allowed to think it's dumb and make fun of it.
Besides, nothing in this world as an intrinsic(sp?) value, all value is bestowed by us. We can use anything as currency, that doesn't make it a good idea.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
Kilkrazy wrote: I would take the £10,000 paper cash and put it in the bank.
So when all that overprinting of currency causes a crash in the near future, you will be happy that your 10000 will buy you a few slices of bread.
Ok. LET'S DO THIS! I will give you $50.00 USD Today. On the stipulation that in 10 years, you will give me $25,000 USD. If your belief here is true this will work out to be a pretty good deal for you as in the end money I give you ($50.00 USD) you can use today to buy a nice dinner, a box minis or a moderately priced new video game... or whatever else strikes your fancy. The $25,000 USD you will give me in 10 years will buy me at most a loaf of whole wheat wonder bread (which I don't even like). A pretty good trade for you, from what I can see.
Come on man. Give me your contact info. LETS WRITE THIS THING UP.
EDIT:
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/07/02 13:34:19
Kilkrazy wrote: I would take the £10,000 paper cash and put it in the bank.
So when all that overprinting of currency causes a crash in the near future, you will be happy that your 10000 will buy you a few slices of bread.
Ok. LET'S DO THIS! I will give you $50.00 USD Today. On the stipulation that in 10 years, you will give me $25,000 USD. If your belief here is true this will work out to be a pretty good deal for you as in the end money I give you ($50.00 USD) you can use today to buy a nice dinner, a box minis or a moderately priced new video game... or whatever else strikes your fancy. The $25,000 USD you will give me in 10 years will buy me at most a loaf of whole wheat wonder bread (which I don't even like). A pretty good trade for you, from what I can see.
Come on man. Give me your contact info. LETS WRITE THIS THING UP.
EDIT:
If you have the moral stomach for it, there are plenty of better schemes to take advantage of Doomsday believers. BEHOLD!
Just swear you are an atheist, and that you will totally check in on pets if all Christians simultaneously vanish. That's easier money than selling overpriced fifes to Reasonabilists the day before Zorp returns and melts our faces off.
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
Easy E wrote: What gives Gold an intrinsic value? Answer, nothing more than what gives paper "fiat" money intrinsic value. Just trust that it has value.
If a real catasrophic crisis came people would value canned goods, firearms, and ammo way more than gold. Therefore, we should back all our currency with canned goods.
In an economy that is functioning, the first is the optimum storage for money kept for short term consumption spending (the latter is a good option for long term investment, while gold is a good option if you need to buy your wife something nice for your anniversary but otherwise useless).
And thats the point, it;s ok In an economy that is functioning properly. It's worthless in a dysfunctional economy.
In an economy that is functioning so poorly that paper money is no longer a good option for short term consumption, then the other two options will be equally useless.
Calling BS on that, Gold maintains it's value in a functional or dysfunctional economy.
And contrary to the modern myth, gold doesn't produce a stable currency - has anyone been watching the price of gold? Sure over the very long term you get only a slow appreciation, but in the short term you get price spikes and long periods of price declines, which would amount to economic disaster.
See that graph, where it say's London fix? They've been manipulating the price of gold, to boost investment in the stock market.
When the system crashes, the brakes will come off. Think about it, why so many adverts for buying gold on tv. Why leaflets through the door, saying sell us your gold. Why bother doing that if it's going down in value.
Soladrin wrote: Am I the only guy here who thinks money isn't going away any time soon?
Besides, gold as a currency is useless, you can't store it digitally, goodbye internet banking and well, modern world everything. Gold currency would slow down every economy to a crawl.
False. Gold backed currency would work exactly the same.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/02 22:56:39
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
Just swear you are an atheist, and that you will totally check in on pets if all Christians simultaneously vanish. That's easier money than selling overpriced fifes to Reasonabilists the day before Zorp returns and melts our faces off.
Thanks for making me laugh!
This is the most unashamed scam I've ever seen - it's glorious.
Oaka wrote: It's getting to the point where if I see Marneus Calgar and the Swarmlord in the same unit as a Riptide, I probably won't question its legality.
So is gold. The inherent material value of gold is about the same as the inherent value of paper money (use it for toilet paper, burn it for heat, etc). The entire "value" of gold is the result of having a functioning economy that has agreed to use gold as a medium of exchange.
Calling BS on that, Gold maintains it's value in a functional or dysfunctional economy.
Just as long as you are content with your gold "maintaining" a very small amount of value based on its use in jewelry and electrical components.
Think about it, why so many adverts for buying gold on tv. Why leaflets through the door, saying sell us your gold. Why bother doing that if it's going down in value.
Because speculators want to take advantage of people who need quick cash. I seriously doubt they're offering even close to fair market value for that gold, and if it happens to increase in price then they just get even more money. You might as well ask why people send out email spam if there isn't really any wealthy king who just needs a little help getting their money out of the country.
False. Gold backed currency would work exactly the same.
Ok, so now we're talking about a currency "backed" by an arbitrary promise of value, not actually using the gold for currency? How exactly is that supposed to be different from the current system?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/03 01:14:31
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
MrDwhitey wrote: We're basically carrying our money in wheelbarrows at this point.
Then the jewish/sociallist/capitalist/neo-liberal/hipster-conservative/lizardmen banking cabal has done it's job.
I don't believe this is the case otherwise we'd be having a servant carry our money in a bicycle, whilst greeting passers by with "Shalom comrade , down with welfare, have you seen my new bike it's the best available , nice day for a sunbake!
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
MrDwhitey wrote: We're basically carrying our money in wheelbarrows at this point.
Then the jewish/sociallist/capitalist/neo-liberal/hipster-conservative/lizardmen banking cabal has done it's job.
I don't believe this is the case otherwise we'd be having a servant carry our money in a bicycle, whilst greeting passers by with "Shalom comrade , down with welfare, have you seen my new bike it's the best available , nice day for a sunbake!
This. This was beautiful.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
Fiat currency is backed not on simple trust, but on the expectation that I can use it to purchase goods and services. That is, I'll happily take it as payment for a day's work because I expect I will be able to then use it in exchange for food, power bills and everything else I have to pay for.
Gold backed currency is exactly the same, except in addition to be able to be traded for goods and services, it can also be swapped for a fixed amount of gold, which is a feature valuable to people who want gold. That would be the average person when they want a new piece of jewelry (and given the US jewelry industry is about 70 billion, or half of 1% of the economy, we'll put that down "as most people but only very occassionally"), and also a minor part of the electronics industry.
In other words, you go from having a currency that works because people expect to be able to use it to purchase goods and services, to a currency that works because people expect to be able to use it to purchase goods and services, and also sometimes trade it at a fixed rate for some gold, or for a very small number of people to sometimes access some gold for electronics.
In order to get those last two bits
See that graph, where it say's London fix? They've been manipulating the price of gold, to boost investment in the stock market.
Ah, that's not how the fix works. Maybe you're getting confused by the word 'fix', or maybe you've watched a youtube video that lied to you, I don't know. But the word there 'fix' just means the settled price between the five major trading houses - it's their internal rate that they use to balance the variety of buy & sell offers they each hold.
The gold fluctuations you saw in the graph aren't explained away by half assed conspiracy theories. They represent the real fluctuations in demand and supply for gold over time. The post-GFC climb in gold price wasn't due to price fixing but due to panicked and stupid money flooding in to gold, and the collapse in gold price after that was due to that same panicked and stupid money realising that the world wasn't collapsing and all they were holding was a non-productive asset at a highly speculative price.
The idea that you want to tie your money supply to such an asset is simply absurd. A barbarous relic, if you like
When the system crashes, the brakes will come off. Think about it, why so many adverts for buying gold on tv. Why leaflets through the door, saying sell us your gold. Why bother doing that if it's going down in value.
Ummm, they're not looking to buy up your jewelry so they can hold on to it forever as an investment. I have no clue where you got that idea from. They're looking to buy up gold at a discount, to then on-sell at a premium in the current market... That's just retail. It's like asking why car dealers will buy your old car, if it's only going to depreciate.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Wait, are there seriously people who think that there is an economic collapse that would make paper money worthless but leave gold intact?
What kind of scenario are they thinking of?
In a zombie apocalypse, your gold would just weigh you down even more than paper money. If Yellowstone erupted and smoke blotted out the sun, freezing the US foodbelt, your gold would be worth less than an ear of corn. You can't eat gold. Maybe a solar flair destroys every piece of unshielded electronics, meaning we don't have printers or online bank records anymore - in that scenario, we're back in the Dark Ages, except this time no one wants to be a peasant. Kill or be killed. Eat or be eaten. All of society tears itself apart. Best case scenario is that, if your gold is worth something, the cannibals currently eating your face decide to take your gold with them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/03 03:35:04
Woaw, zombie apocalypse really? it just means that governments are printing more and more money to hide the real issues, and when the card house falls down all your savings are word Sh**!, it is just another bubble waiting to burst.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Woaw, zombie apocalypse really? it just means that governments are printing more and more money to hide the real issues, and when the card house falls down all your savings are word Sh**!, it is just another bubble waiting to burst.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Woaw, zombie apocalypse really? it just means that governments are printing more and more money to hide the real issues, and when the card house falls down all your savings are word Sh**!, it is just another bubble waiting to burst.
You need to go and read about Reserve Bank independence. The money printed by any reserve or central bank of any modern country is entirely unrelated to government's fiscal needs. Instead that bank looks to its own charter to keep inflation within a certain desirable band, and prints enough money to meet that band.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Woaw, zombie apocalypse really? it just means that governments are printing more and more money to hide the real issues, and when the card house falls down all your savings are word Sh**!, it is just another bubble waiting to burst.
mmm Zombie apacalypse. The best defesne is a good offense. Eat the Zombies.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
