“His battle-hardened mind assessed the relative strengths and weakness of the six soldiers without conscious thought; armament, distance, levels of combat effectiveness, routes of attack and escape calculated in less than a few panicked beatings of their hearts.” - Imperial Armour Volume 9, p.46 - The Badab War - Part One

“Barsabbas counted the numbers with a cursory auspex sweep. He calculated the readout in his head, subtracting an estimation of noncombatant families and livestock signatures. The total, even with a generous estimate, would be no more than twenty thousand fighters. It was a gathering of road trains, women and children. A mass exodus, not an army. He had hoped for more. Twenty thousand men would amount to little more than a speed bump against a well drilled company of Chaos Space Marines. He needed the plainsmen to occupy the enemy in order for him to infiltrate unnoticed into the deep north.” / Blood Gorgons, p.95 - **

 Wyzilla wrote:
Extreme genius compared to humans. I remember there being a quote somewhere on Astates being able to simulate entire battles in their mind, similar to a (super)computer. They may not be cultural savants, but they're extremely intelligent.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Extreme genius compared to humans. I remember there being a quote somewhere on Astates being able to simulate entire battles in their mind, similar to a (super)computer. They may not be cultural savants, but they're extremely intelligent.

“His battle-hardened mind assessed the relative strengths and weakness of the six soldiers without conscious thought; armament, distance, levels of combat effectiveness, routes of attack and escape calculated in less than a few panicked beatings of their hearts.” - Imperial Armour Volume 9, p.46 - The Badab War - Part One

Subconscious calculations.

“Barsabbas counted the numbers with a cursory auspex sweep. He calculated the readout in his head, subtracting an estimation of noncombatant families and livestock signatures. The total, even with a generous estimate, would be no more than twenty thousand fighters. It was a gathering of road trains, women and children. A mass exodus, not an army. He had hoped for more. Twenty thousand men would amount to little more than a speed bump against a well drilled company of Chaos Space Marines. He needed the plainsmen to occupy the enemy in order for him to infiltrate unnoticed into the deep north.” / Blood Gorgons, p.95 - **

More calculations.

And that's all I got for now, but there's another series of quotes I remember having more information.

The light inside finds him blue and gold. His skull-close helm is in place. Behind the visor slits, Luciel‟s eyes react as fastas the optic augmetics in the slit rims. Involuntary combat instincts take over: a new space is revealed, so he must consider it and assess any threats. An airgate compartment, sixty cubic metres, grav supporting decking, self-seal armoured skinning, neutral normalised atmospherics (though Luciel can feel the pressure decay of the air pumps‟ endcycle). There‟s a reciprocal airgate hatch at the other end of the gate compartment. There is a figure in front of the door. It is another Space Marine in full wargear. Luciel is XIII Legion, an Ultramarine. Blue and gold, clean and sharp. Armour burnished to a silk gleam.

The Word Bearer is almost unrecognizable. For a nanosecond, the figure registers to Luciel as an unknown, a threat. Transhuman responses are already there, unbidden. Adrenaline spikes to heighten an already formidable reaction time. Muscle remembers. Luciel wears his boltgun, an oiled black pit bull of a weapon, in his thigh holster. He can draw, aim and fire in less than a second. The range is six metres, the target unobstructed. There is no chance of missing. Maximus plate, frontally augmented, might stop a mass-reactive shell, so Luciel will fire two and aim for the visor slits. The airgate skin-sleeve is self-repairing, and will survive las-fire damage, but a bolter shot will shred it open, so Luciel also braces for the explosive decompression of a ricochet or a miss-hit. At a simple, subconscious neural urge, boot-sole electromagnets charge to clamp onto the deck plates. Luciel thinks theoretical, but of course there is no theoretical. There is no tactical precedent for a Space Marine to fight a Space Marine. The idea is nonsense. He thinks practical, and that directs him to the visor slits. He can make a clean kill headshot in less than a second and a half, two rounds for kill insurance, and probably protect the atmospheric integrity of the airgate.

All this, all this decided, unbidden, instinctive, in less than a nanosecond.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The word "instinctual" is brought up several times, implying reflexes, but it's important to note that not only are the Ultramarine's instincts in play in this passage, but also, his mind and senses are processing his surrounding sat a Godly speed. A nanosecond is a one-billionth of a second. So if a normal person can read and understand 500 words in a minute, a Space Marine could read and understand those same 500 words in... a vastly shorter amount of time.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Extreme genius compared to humans. I remember there being a quote somewhere on Astates being able to simulate entire battles in their mind, similar to a (super)computer. They may not be cultural savants, but they're extremely intelligent.

Where's that from?

There's nothing in their genetic implants that does that. Of that implants that affect their brain, they have organs that assist them with sleep deprivation, one that allows them to absorb memories by eating enemies (however that's supposed to work), one that improves vision, one that improves hearing and balance, and one that allows them to enter a suspended animation state, but nothing that outright improves intelligence.

They undergo psychoindoctrination and memory training, but that's not something that normal humans couldn't do either if given access to such methods and/or equipment, nothing about it that is described would require a Space Marine's physiology. Essentially they've been given training on how to use their minds to the fullest potential and "forcefed" an education of sorts, but they aren't fundamentally any more intelligent than a normal human could be either.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Extreme genius compared to humans. I remember there being a quote somewhere on Astates being able to simulate entire battles in their mind, similar to a (super)computer. They may not be cultural savants, but they're extremely intelligent.

Where's that from?

There's nothing in their genetic implants that does that. Of that implants that affect their brain, they have organs that assist them with sleep deprivation, one that allows them to absorb memories by eating enemies (however that's supposed to work), one that improves vision, one that improves hearing and balance, and one that allows them to enter a suspended animation state, but nothing that outright improves intelligence.

They undergo psychoindoctrination and memory training, but that's not something that normal humans couldn't do either if given access to such methods and/or equipment, nothing about it that is described would require a Space Marine's physiology. Essentially they've been given training on how to use their minds to the fullest potential and "forcefed" an education of sorts, but they aren't fundamentally any more intelligent than a normal human could be either.

You also do know that the Imperium is capable of uploading raw information into the minds of people for instant (albeit painful) education? Implants don't need to be involved at all, they just pull the manuals off the shelf and direct upload them into their mind. Plus then there's the bits of Astartes having low millisecond-high microsecond reaction speeds, which are simply not possible from a non-augmented mind.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Extreme genius compared to humans. I remember there being a quote somewhere on Astates being able to simulate entire battles in their mind, similar to a (super)computer. They may not be cultural savants, but they're extremely intelligent.

Where's that from?

There's nothing in their genetic implants that does that. Of that implants that affect their brain, they have organs that assist them with sleep deprivation, one that allows them to absorb memories by eating enemies (however that's supposed to work), one that improves vision, one that improves hearing and balance, and one that allows them to enter a suspended animation state, but nothing that outright improves intelligence.

They undergo psychoindoctrination and memory training, but that's not something that normal humans couldn't do either if given access to such methods and/or equipment, nothing about it that is described would require a Space Marine's physiology. Essentially they've been given training on how to use their minds to the fullest potential and "forcefed" an education of sorts, but they aren't fundamentally any more intelligent than a normal human could be either.

You also do know that the Imperium is capable of uploading raw information into the minds of people for instant (albeit painful) education? Implants don't need to be involved at all, they just pull the manuals off the shelf and direct upload them into their mind. Plus then there's the bits of Astartes having low millisecond-high microsecond reaction speeds, which are simply not possible from a non-augmented mind.

Reaction speed in and of itself is not intelligence, and yes, the Upload (IIRC Psychoindoctrination) is something most SM's get, but isn't something that enhances intelligence (education is not in and of itself, intelligence), and isn't something that only Space Marines can undergo.

Essentially, from my understanding, they receive a massive amount of informational education and training on how best to use their minds, but such isn't anything that's beyond a normal human if given access either. They aren't fundamentally more intelligent than an average Imperial peon, they just have the training, will, and need to use what they have to its utmost.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Reaction speed and intelligence are not the same thing. Reaction speeds are governed by lots of things. Intelligence is not necessarily one of them. A Fly can react to stimuli much faster than I can, and can thus usually avoid getting swatted, that doesn't make it more intelligent.

Nothing about any of the geneseed implants/organs says anything about increasing intelligence.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Aye. Space Marines are probably of average intelligence maybe a bit above. I don't understand how being able to simulate a battle makes them smart. Anyone with an imagination can look at a Leman Russ column, a bunch of Sternguard veterans with Meltaguns and see how that goes. Hell, the people who wrote it were able to simulate a battle in their minds.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Reaction speed and intelligence are not the same thing. Reaction speeds are governed by lots of things. Intelligence is not necessarily one of them. A Fly can react to stimuli much faster than I can, and can thus usually avoid getting swatted, that doesn't make it more intelligent.

Nothing about any of the geneseed implants/organs says anything about increasing intelligence.

>The Point.



>Your Head.

Whoosh. It doesn't matter if reaction speeds don't equal intelligence. The fact that they can have microsecond and nanosecond reaction speeds means their brains are directly modified far beyond human capability. Which also explains the intelligence quotes. But no. You don't suddenly start dodging superosnic projectiles and instantly observing your environment in a nanosecond just because of some hypnotherapy. That needs alteration to be capable of, because the human brain simply can't do that.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Threat assessment doesn't require a lot of intelligence to do. Of course, you can't be a total dummy if you want to do it properly but they needn't be an Albert Einstein each to know that you should shoot the Carnifex first with heavy weapons.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Threat assessment doesn't require a lot of intelligence to do. Of course, you can't be a total dummy if you want to do it properly but they needn't be an Albert Einstein each to know that you should shoot the Carnifex first with heavy weapons.

 Vaktathi wrote:
No, I got it, but again, as I stated before, there's a ton of things that can affect reaction time. The brain isn't always one of them. There's lot of reactions that have nothing to do with the brain and are instead physiologically based. Many such things never even route through the brain, but instead are simply triggered by the local nerve cells themselves. You get hit on the knee, your knee jerks out, and you aren't even aware of it because the nerve cells in your knee simply detected the stimuli and reacted and you don't realize what's happened until it had already occurred.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
No, I got it, but again, as I stated before, there's a ton of things that can affect reaction time. The brain isn't always one of them. There's lot of reactions that have nothing to do with the brain and are instead physiologically based. Many such things never even route through the brain, but instead are simply triggered by the local nerve cells themselves. You get hit on the knee, your knee jerks out, and you aren't even aware of it because the nerve cells in your knee simply detected the stimuli and reacted and you don't realize what's happened until it had already occurred.

That's false. Reflexes and reactions are entirely controlled by the Brain.

Not being consciously aware of what you're doing =\= it not being a mental task. Even in the example you listed, that reflex where the knee moves by being hit works by: an object hits your knee, neurons in your knee say "I've been hit" and sends that information up through your spine via other neurons, up to your brain, where they say "Mr. Brain, the knee has been hit by something." The brain tells those neurons "tell the knee to move", that signal gets sent back down to your knee, and it moves.

That's how reflexes work. It's also why if the connection between your knee and your brain is disrupted (i.e paralysis), your knee will no longer twitch when something touches it.

So, no man. Being able to notice a dozen things and to make a dozen situations based off of those observations within the space of a "nanosecond" can only be possible if the Brain processes information at nanosecond speeds. That's a biological fact.