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2014/07/03 12:42:38
Subject: Super annoying(unconventional) Tyranid list to win a tournament with?
So, with Maelstrom missions and all I was just thinking about if you could play a game without even worrying (too much) about what your opponent brings. This is simply a concept and not necessarily rigid in terms of composition. I was thinking about FMC spam demons win games without even really playing the game, and if Nids could do the same thing.
Deepstrike your Trygons into a position central relative to the objective markers so that the tunnels are nearby enough to them that with a 6" move and 3-4" run you can get to at least 1 if not 2 objectives...Outflank your genestealers for side board objective claiming, hopefully in cover so you can g2g. Use the Flyrants to get them up if need be.
Yes, the formation isn't Objective Secured so you'll need to target your opponent's OS units first....Once your opponent doesn't have any OS just contest the objectives you need to and claim the others for yourself.
The reason I am using larger than MSU of gants is because 10 can be easily removed, but 15-20 isn't a sure thing to remove in 1 turn, let alone multiple times a game. Devourer gants provide needed firepower to throw wounds onto incoming melee units. The other great part is that they'll respawn with the devourers. So you can afford to lose them, knowing that they can come back. The units of 16 can average ~7 wounds on T4 opponents each shooting phase.
Trygon Prime should be able to provide a decent forward synapse node with the clutch Catalyst and your Zoans can hold up midfield synapse points.
Let the Flyrants swoop around and pester the heavy firepower units. I've been finding that they tend to live much longer due to grounding tests being at the end of phase due to wounds taken.
Essentially, just keep throwing bodies at your opponent. Model placement probably doesn't have to be too specific with this type of horde so turns shouldn't take too ridiculously long.
2014/07/04 20:37:25
Subject: Super annoying(unconventional) Tyranid list to win a tournament with?
roxor08 wrote: So, with Maelstrom missions and all I was just thinking about if you could play a game without even worrying (too much) about what your opponent brings. This is simply a concept and not necessarily rigid in terms of composition. I was thinking about FMC spam demons win games without even really playing the game, and if Nids could do the same thing.
Does not look bad. I'd a built it with Warrior Broods instead of Stealers, and made up the points by downgrading Big Wormey, to regular Wormy....
15 Hormagaunts
15 Hormagaunts
10 Hormagaunts
10 Fleshborer gants, 6 Devourer gants
10 Fleshborer gants, 6 Devourer gants
10 Fleshborer gants, 6 Devourer gants
3 Warriors
Deepstrike your Trygons into a position central relative to the objective markers so that the tunnels are nearby enough to them that with a 6" move and 3-4" run you can get to at least 1 if not 2 objectives...Outflank your genestealers for side board objective claiming, hopefully in cover so you can g2g. Use the Flyrants to get them up if need be.
Yes, the formation isn't Objective Secured so you'll need to target your opponent's OS units first....Once your opponent doesn't have any OS just contest the objectives you need to and claim the others for yourself.
The reason I am using larger than MSU of gants is because 10 can be easily removed, but 15-20 isn't a sure thing to remove in 1 turn, let alone multiple times a game. Devourer gants provide needed firepower to throw wounds onto incoming melee units. The other great part is that they'll respawn with the devourers. So you can afford to lose them, knowing that they can come back. The units of 16 can average ~7 wounds on T4 opponents each shooting phase.
Trygon Prime should be able to provide a decent forward synapse node with the clutch Catalyst and your Zoans can hold up midfield synapse points.
Let the Flyrants swoop around and pester the heavy firepower units. I've been finding that they tend to live much longer due to grounding tests being at the end of phase due to wounds taken.
Essentially, just keep throwing bodies at your opponent. Model placement probably doesn't have to be too specific with this type of horde so turns shouldn't take too ridiculously long.
as you know I like "Endless Tunnel Assault", I think that in Tourney play seeing a swarming horde will freak people out. And that is a good thing.
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2014/07/05 06:22:22
Subject: Super annoying(unconventional) Tyranid list to win a tournament with?
roxor08 wrote: So, with Maelstrom missions and all I was just thinking about if you could play a game without even worrying (too much) about what your opponent brings. This is simply a concept and not necessarily rigid in terms of composition. I was thinking about FMC spam demons win games without even really playing the game, and if Nids could do the same thing.
Does not look bad. I'd a built it with Warrior Broods instead of Stealers, and made up the points by downgrading Big Wormey, to regular Wormy....
15 Hormagaunts
15 Hormagaunts
10 Hormagaunts
10 Fleshborer gants, 6 Devourer gants
10 Fleshborer gants, 6 Devourer gants
10 Fleshborer gants, 6 Devourer gants
3 Warriors
Deepstrike your Trygons into a position central relative to the objective markers so that the tunnels are nearby enough to them that with a 6" move and 3-4" run you can get to at least 1 if not 2 objectives...Outflank your genestealers for side board objective claiming, hopefully in cover so you can g2g. Use the Flyrants to get them up if need be.
Yes, the formation isn't Objective Secured so you'll need to target your opponent's OS units first....Once your opponent doesn't have any OS just contest the objectives you need to and claim the others for yourself.
The reason I am using larger than MSU of gants is because 10 can be easily removed, but 15-20 isn't a sure thing to remove in 1 turn, let alone multiple times a game. Devourer gants provide needed firepower to throw wounds onto incoming melee units. The other great part is that they'll respawn with the devourers. So you can afford to lose them, knowing that they can come back. The units of 16 can average ~7 wounds on T4 opponents each shooting phase.
Trygon Prime should be able to provide a decent forward synapse node with the clutch Catalyst and your Zoans can hold up midfield synapse points.
Let the Flyrants swoop around and pester the heavy firepower units. I've been finding that they tend to live much longer due to grounding tests being at the end of phase due to wounds taken.
Essentially, just keep throwing bodies at your opponent. Model placement probably doesn't have to be too specific with this type of horde so turns shouldn't take too ridiculously long.
as you know I like "Endless Tunnel Assault", I think that in Tourney play seeing a swarming horde will freak people out. And that is a good thing.
Yes, I know that :-) I think that tournament play definitely disfavors this type of list because it takes a TON of time to move stuff and has limited offensive capability. So really, the battle of attrition is what you're hoping to win by....which is completely against every concept Tyranids are about........
bobmgee wrote:Just posted a very similar list. I think this is one of the only ways to run nids now and still win games.
I don't necessarily see many similarities. Other than Flyrants....You've just taken Flyrant spam to another level. OtOh I don't think it'd do poorly, it just doesn't seem very fun to play.
2014/07/06 16:46:26
Subject: Re:Super annoying(unconventional) Tyranid list to win a tournament with?
Word, I think the "key" for tourney play is to be totally at peace with losing units, they just become tunnel assault fodder. And it will freak you oponite out even more. If you move units with basic goals, like "Push up my Hormagaunts" then you can avoid having to measure three times...
If you get maelstrom missions, having 9+ Troops will Rawk like a hurricane! If you can, let me know how it works out. An additional plus is you can laugh at Grav spam, and that usually totally pwns us.
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2014/07/07 07:14:00
Subject: Re:Super annoying(unconventional) Tyranid list to win a tournament with?
pinecone77 wrote: Word, I think the "key" for tourney play is to be totally at peace with losing units, they just become tunnel assault fodder. And it will freak you oponite out even more. If you move units with basic goals, like "Push up my Hormagaunts" then you can avoid having to measure three times...
If you get maelstrom missions, having 9+ Troops will Rawk like a hurricane! If you can, let me know how it works out. An additional plus is you can laugh at Grav spam, and that usually totally pwns us.
Like you mention, having 9+ troops is pretty bad ass because you can claim + contest pretty much anything on the board at that point. Hold the genestealers in reserve to outflank onto any objectives near the edges....With the Hormagaunts being able to move + run when they arrive you have quite a reach.
The only thing I'd like better is to include a Tervigon in the list. The added spawning could be even better but I can't seem to find where I'd take the points from without sacrificing significantly. In order to fit it, I'd need to include 30 gants (120 points) plus the Tervigon (195 points)....315 points is a lot....
Dropping the Zoanthropes and the Genestealers only gets me 240 points. At that point, I'd have to start taking away from those gant units in the formation. I don't feel that taking the Venomthrope out will be good because it'll hopefully contribute to the survivability of those gribbles.
Do you think I should scrape more to get the Tervigon?
2014/07/07 15:52:33
Subject: Re:Super annoying(unconventional) Tyranid list to win a tournament with?
pinecone77 wrote: Word, I think the "key" for tourney play is to be totally at peace with losing units, they just become tunnel assault fodder. And it will freak you oponite out even more. If you move units with basic goals, like "Push up my Hormagaunts" then you can avoid having to measure three times...
If you get maelstrom missions, having 9+ Troops will Rawk like a hurricane! If you can, let me know how it works out. An additional plus is you can laugh at Grav spam, and that usually totally pwns us.
Like you mention, having 9+ troops is pretty bad ass because you can claim + contest pretty much anything on the board at that point. Hold the genestealers in reserve to outflank onto any objectives near the edges....With the Hormagaunts being able to move + run when they arrive you have quite a reach.
The only thing I'd like better is to include a Tervigon in the list. The added spawning could be even better but I can't seem to find where I'd take the points from without sacrificing significantly. In order to fit it, I'd need to include 30 gants (120 points) plus the Tervigon (195 points)....315 points is a lot....
Dropping the Zoanthropes and the Genestealers only gets me 240 points. At that point, I'd have to start taking away from those gant units in the formation. I don't feel that taking the Venomthrope out will be good because it'll hopefully contribute to the survivability of those gribbles.
Do you think I should scrape more to get the Tervigon?
Sadly, the only "easy" fit is lose a Dakka'rant, and that is downright foolish. If you lose the Big Wormy you free up enough points to get a Tervigon, with plenty to spare, and you can convert the Stealers into a Big Brood, again, with points to spare...but you only have one Tunnel, and that is also a bit foolish...it can be done. But I like having two tunneling critters, so I can mess up, and still have a'nuver go... Plus, you'll already be stressing over how many models you have to move, so spawning more might be "sub-optimal"
Possible modification: Drop Big Wormey, -240, add Tervigon, Hive +205, leaves 35 , lose both Broods of Stealers, -140, add Big Brood (x30) +120 (plus any Devilgaunts) leaves 20, so 55 to spend...I'd get an Extra "Thrope. I'd go Zoey, because while Shrounding will completely rawk, durable Synapse is critical, as IB can trash your army in no time. I don't know that this really adds "more" though...it increases the "Swarm" power, but Big Wormey is durable Synapse, adds a Tunnel, and is as bad a** a Big Bug as you can find...
The only other wacky idea, is turning one or two Horigaunt Broods Toxic, 45 points turns one x15 Brood, and you still have 10 left. The only reason to do this, is that it has a 50% chance to come back, and it is a priority one target for shooting, so the others can advance in peace. With Veno cover it can consume a huge volume of fire. And once dead, the Veno is still around covering the other two Broods of Hormies.
I'd run a "assault triangle" with one (Toxic) Brood forward, and two trailing, put the Veno Brood, and a Synapse (Warrior, or Zoey) in the center, so any shots cross through a Brood of Hormies, and the Veno grants Shrouding. This pracitally forces your enemy to remove the lead element, and then you can charge in the other two. If the Zoey can give FNP, or the like it will put huge pressure on your foe. If you run the Triangle with Two forward it should work as well, but it might leave the Toxic Brood alive, but too small to do work...if that happens just charge anyway, and hope for a 4+.
Late entry: I just saw that you have Toxic on the Prime, so that means 10 more points to toss around...if you find 10 more, you can have two toxic Broods,(the x10 one as well) (if you trim one Devil off each Brood that saves 24, and you can Toxic the other x15 Brood)or ...do you have a Strangle Cannon on the Warriors? A "pin" result can let Hories charge home intact, and that is a epic success.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/07/07 16:20:08
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2014/07/08 16:24:31
Subject: Re:Super annoying(unconventional) Tyranid list to win a tournament with?
I was thinking about this list at breakfast today, and I jotted down a basic framework for Endless Tunnel Assault....it's kinda a hybrid of my older concepts, and might give you some ideas...
pinecone77 wrote: I was thinking about this list at breakfast today, and I jotted down a basic framework for Endless Tunnel Assault....it's kinda a hybrid of my older concepts, and might give you some ideas...
Total cost 565+ 1140= 1705 Add 3 Venothropes (+135) and you hit 1840 So you can get a upgrade, or trim a few Gaunts and buy Hive Commander etc...
This list reflects my obsession with Synapse. I count 7 Synapse, and 6 things that need it...9 if you include the Venos.
Not a bad list! I wouldn't think you'd need the Prime upgrade on the second Trygon but the extra shooting when it arrives is nice even if it's not worth the 40 points...The extra SitW could be handy though.
Nice list! Gonna have to try it :-)
2014/07/09 13:16:17
Subject: Super annoying(unconventional) Tyranid list to win a tournament with?
You have my attention, roxor. I'm also interested in the Tervigon variant. Maybe downgrading the Trygon Prime (will he really survive anyway?) to get the points, plus trimming a small amount from your endless swarm?
However, I don't understand what kills stuff in this list. Even with a slight swarm list at AdeptiCon this year, I felt like I was just pushing models forward to die. Can you explain to me how this does more than just clog the board? Genuinely asking, I don't get to use my army much so as much as I can understand ahead of time helps greatly
I could run a list similar to this without building much at all (with the exception of the genestealers, which are kind of on the chopping block). So, very interested in whether it works out for you or not.
2014/07/09 15:00:40
Subject: Super annoying(unconventional) Tyranid list to win a tournament with?
RiTides wrote: You have my attention, roxor. I'm also interested in the Tervigon variant. Maybe downgrading the Trygon Prime (will he really survive anyway?) to get the points, plus trimming a small amount from your endless swarm?
However, I don't understand what kills stuff in this list. Even with a slight swarm list at AdeptiCon this year, I felt like I was just pushing models forward to die. Can you explain to me how this does more than just clog the board? Genuinely asking, I don't get to use my army much so as much as I can understand ahead of time helps greatly
I could run a list similar to this without building much at all (with the exception of the genestealers, which are kind of on the chopping block). So, very interested in whether it works out for you or not.
Well, thing is I just kinda get tired of fielding the same lists over and over. Most of the lists that are designed for 40k as of late are all out damage output. What's strange is that it's not just damage that will win games for us any longer, the objectives are more important that ever, that's why I designed this list.
The Prime upgrade on the Trygon (at least one) is important to provide forward synapse other than the Flyrants. No, I don't think it'll survive most games, but it will distract your opponent from the more significant threat...being bogged down in bodies. The best lists out there right now are shooty lists. If you wrap them up in combat, they become rather ineffective.
Like you mentioned, this list isn't about winning by elimination (as what you'd expect from a fluffy standpoint, I mean Tyranids are definitely the least likely race to take hostages). The only real significant damage do-ers are the Flyrants and the Trygons. The Termagant units *might* cripple certain units with their shooting, but again, they are more to reduce the damage coming back rather than wipe it out completely. So yes, the design of this list is purely about presenting many more wounds than your opponent can reliably do a turn (which will be reduced as the game goes on, whereas your respawning units, when destroyed come back ready to do work again!)
In attempting to create an iteration of the list that included a Tervigon, I will point out a few important things to keep in mind: Yes while the genestealers are simply a troop "tax", cutting them to try to fit a Tervigon in results ins net shortage of165 points (195 + 120 for the gant tax). There isn't really a decent spot to scavenge these points from without hamstringing the list too much. If you remove a Trygon, your subterranean tunnel system becomes reliable and limited as an avenue for the respawning gants. If you reduce the size of the gant units, you significantly reduce their threat while inversely making it easier for your opponent to destroy them completely (forcing more respawning, thereby increasing the probability they don't come back). You could get 100 by dropping the Zoans, but then your psychic defense and synapse presence become negligible. The only other way I see it happening is dropping a DakkaFlyrant in favor of the Tervigon, in which case you save points but again significantly reduce the already little damage output this list
Based in several assumptions (including both Trygons arrive turn 2), you could realistically plan on up to 75 Hormagaunts and up to 96 Termagants throughout a 5 turn game. See assumptions here:
Spoiler:
1) Starting all gants on the table to increase board presence and discourage alpha strike. 2) opponent doesn't manage to completely destroy any formation gant units until end of turn 2, but continues to destroy them every turn thereafter 3) Arrive next on turn 3, ideally 2 Termagant units through the tunnels. 4) The turn/unit type/unit count/model count per unit in that unit follow this criteria: T3/hgaunts/2/15 & 10, T3/Tgants/2/16 & 16, T4/Hgaunts/1/10, T4/Tgants/1/16, T5/Hgaunts/0, T5/Tgants/0
You could manage to churn out significantly higher numbers than that, possibly up to 160 Hormagaunts and 192 Termagants.
I don't know that a Tervigon is necessary in this type of list (especially since when it is destroyed it could take out all of your nearby Termagants) :-(
2014/07/09 16:24:54
Subject: Re:Super annoying(unconventional) Tyranid list to win a tournament with?
pinecone77 wrote: I was thinking about this list at breakfast today, and I jotted down a basic framework for Endless Tunnel Assault....it's kinda a hybrid of my older concepts, and might give you some ideas...
Total cost 565+ 1140= 1705 Add 3 Venothropes (+135) and you hit 1840 So you can get a upgrade, or trim a few Gaunts and buy Hive Commander etc...
This list reflects my obsession with Synapse. I count 7 Synapse, and 6 things that need it...9 if you include the Venos.
Not a bad list! I wouldn't think you'd need the Prime upgrade on the second Trygon but the extra shooting when it arrives is nice even if it's not worth the 40 points...The extra SitW could be handy though.
Nice list! Gonna have to try it :-)
Cool...Yeah dropping Big Wormey for Wormey is a credible change...but to me Big Wormy is a Dakka'rant that has Tunneling, and drops a tunnel marker instead of having Powers of the Hive Mind!. I honestly am not sure what I would buy with the 40 to 80 I could shave though, if I could shave down and find 140 (lose the Devilgaunts) then a Mawloc would be awesome, and fit the "theme" as well.
Turning the Devils into Spine/Termagants would save 60, and that is what is needed for a Mawloc But I only own two Wormys. (magnitised)
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2014/07/10 07:03:22
Subject: Re:Super annoying(unconventional) Tyranid list to win a tournament with?
pinecone77 wrote: I was thinking about this list at breakfast today, and I jotted down a basic framework for Endless Tunnel Assault....it's kinda a hybrid of my older concepts, and might give you some ideas...
Total cost 565+ 1140= 1705 Add 3 Venothropes (+135) and you hit 1840 So you can get a upgrade, or trim a few Gaunts and buy Hive Commander etc...
This list reflects my obsession with Synapse. I count 7 Synapse, and 6 things that need it...9 if you include the Venos.
Not a bad list! I wouldn't think you'd need the Prime upgrade on the second Trygon but the extra shooting when it arrives is nice even if it's not worth the 40 points...The extra SitW could be handy though.
Nice list! Gonna have to try it :-)
Cool...Yeah dropping Big Wormey for Wormey is a credible change...but to me Big Wormy is a Dakka'rant that has Tunneling, and drops a tunnel marker instead of having Powers of the Hive Mind!. I honestly am not sure what I would buy with the 40 to 80 I could shave though, if I could shave down and find 140 (lose the Devilgaunts) then a Mawloc would be awesome, and fit the "theme" as well.
Turning the Devils into Spine/Termagants would save 60, and that is what is needed for a Mawloc But I only own two Wormys. (magnitised)
Um, I don't know about you but the Dakkarant is TL AND BS 4. I don't know that I'd go so far as to say that Trygon Prime has that potential, but I understand what you're getting at.
By dropping a Trygon Prime and converting the Primary detachment Warrior broods to two broods of 3 Deep striking rippers you save 40 + 55 + 55 = 150 points. There's your Mawloc! You'd also not be sacrificing too much Synapse imo because you've still got a Trygon Prime. Rippers don't need synapse to function and you have a better reach with them than the warrors (albiet less damage output).
2014/07/11 01:14:05
Subject: Re:Super annoying(unconventional) Tyranid list to win a tournament with?
pinecone77 wrote: I was thinking about this list at breakfast today, and I jotted down a basic framework for Endless Tunnel Assault....it's kinda a hybrid of my older concepts, and might give you some ideas...
Total cost 565+ 1140= 1705 Add 3 Venothropes (+135) and you hit 1840 So you can get a upgrade, or trim a few Gaunts and buy Hive Commander etc...
This list reflects my obsession with Synapse. I count 7 Synapse, and 6 things that need it...9 if you include the Venos.
Not a bad list! I wouldn't think you'd need the Prime upgrade on the second Trygon but the extra shooting when it arrives is nice even if it's not worth the 40 points...The extra SitW could be handy though.
Nice list! Gonna have to try it :-)
Cool...Yeah dropping Big Wormey for Wormey is a credible change...but to me Big Wormy is a Dakka'rant that has Tunneling, and drops a tunnel marker instead of having Powers of the Hive Mind!. I honestly am not sure what I would buy with the 40 to 80 I could shave though, if I could shave down and find 140 (lose the Devilgaunts) then a Mawloc would be awesome, and fit the "theme" as well.
Turning the Devils into Spine/Termagants would save 60, and that is what is needed for a Mawloc But I only own two Wormys. (magnitised)
Um, I don't know about you but the Dakkarant is TL AND BS 4. I don't know that I'd go so far as to say that Trygon Prime has that potential, but I understand what you're getting at.
By dropping a Trygon Prime and converting the Primary detachment Warrior broods to two broods of 3 Deep striking rippers you save 40 + 55 + 55 = 150 points. There's your Mawloc! You'd also not be sacrificing too much Synapse imo because you've still got a Trygon Prime. Rippers don't need synapse to function and you have a better reach with them than the warrors (albiet less damage output).
That sounds good. I will take gander at that. Thanx!
I'd a built it with Warrior Broods instead of Stealers, and made up the points by downgrading Big Wormey, to regular Wormy....
If you can, let me know how it works out. An additional plus is you can laugh at Grav spam, and that usually totally pwns us. 
and that is downright foolish. If you lose the Big Wormy you free up enough points to get a Tervigon, with plenty to spare, and you can convert the Stealers into a Big Brood, again, with points to spare...but you only have one Tunnel, and that is also a bit foolish...it can be done. But I like having two tunneling critters, so I can mess up, and still have a'nuver go... 
I don't know that this really adds "more" though...it increases the "Swarm" power, but Big Wormey is durable Synapse, adds a Tunnel, and is as bad a** a Big Bug as you can find...
