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This thread is to be a theoretical exercise of the concept that "Everyone has there price".
The 2 questions in the title are in reference loyalty. More specifically National loyalty. Please to note that I don't want to get anyone in trouble for answering these questions. So if you think that answering the following could come back to haunt or hurt you then please abstain from this thread.
The questions:
From a purely theoretical point,
"Would you ever turn against/betray your nations government?"
and, also theoretically,
"What is your price?"
"What would it take to make you turn against/betray your nations government?"
Note, the questions while limited to purely each respondents own government.....the what would it take part is not limited to just money.
Price can mean money, ideology, family, duress or any other reason that you would do it for.
Captain Avatar wrote: From a purely theoretical point,
"Would you ever turn against/betray your nations government?"
Depends on the offer. I like my government more than some countries, but I'd gladly replace it with the right alternative. And hey, I have my own interests to look out for.
"What is your price?"
"What would it take to make you turn against/betray your nations government?"
Money and a guarantee of protection. After all, there's not much point in selling your loyalty if you're just going to get droned to death or brought back on a secret flight to a secret prison where you'll spend the rest of your life without a trial because your case involves too many important national secrets to allow any of the details to become public.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Witness the extraordinarily low bar of ambition that socialism sets, gentlemen.
The Netherlands does not have any socialist government. Only some pansy social democrats/liberasts.
It is simply a matter of me really disliking the Dutch government and being loyal to a certain other country.
Though it is a bit sad that we now joke about big brother listening in rather than discuss what is a very common plot line in many hollywood movies.
This does beg the question," Should Hollywood movies be the only place where free speech is practiced withput fear?"
(I know, people in hollywierd are probably more afraid of free speech and truth than any government. It was just another supposition.)
Now to those who might claim, "That under no circumstances would they ever betray their government."
What if you were given the choice of silver or lead?
Remember, this is all purely hypothetical.
Look forward to your replies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/05 10:46:07
I'm not particularly interested in anything of that sort. I feel a great deal of personal debt towards my government given how much I've benefited from it directly. Treason is also kind of a big deal punishment-wise, and there is a great deal of shame involved.
I wouldn't be interested at any price I think, or at the very least the offer would have to include more than just *money*.
At first blush I'd have to concede that at some point, I might turn against my government even if I agreed with 100% of everything my government was doing. By saying absolutely no, I'd be showing a tremendous lack of imagination
Heck, it could be construed that many of us already have by participating in an election where we voted for the side not in power..... though I think the OP was thinking of situations much more drastic.
If you disagree strongly with your government then it would seem to be an easier choice but if you agree it becomes an interesting ethical dilemma.
Lets see
Silver or lead? I take that to mean money or a bullet.....would depend on how I felt about who was asking and my national government?
Extortion via threat to kidnapped family???...hmmm. If it was my dad and he would know, then probably no. He would rather die than have me sell out and perform an such an act.
If he didn't know, then maybe yes. Would depend on the situation.
Mom, ??? I don't know. Probably the same as dad.
Wife or kids?....Seems like an easy yes but it comes down to the question of would a lifetimes worth of guilt and shame of being the spouse or child of a "traitor" be better than a quick death.
Will have to think on these.
If I found put our government was creating concentration camps....then yes.
If someone had the recipe for the Italian Creme Cake at the Wiesbaden bx bakery......then yeah.
Officially elevated by St. God of Yams to the rank of Scholar of the Church of the Children of the Eternal Turtle Pie at 11:42:36 PM 05/01/09
If they are too stupid to live, why make them?
In the immortal words of Socrates, I drank what??!
I don't know. Go ask Benedict Arnold. Reputation for treason aside, man was a freaking bad ass.
When you look at pre-treachery Arnold, what you find is an almost comical beacon of good old-fashioned American virtue. After his mother died, he single-handedly supported his sister and suicidally alcoholic father; he enlisted to fight off a French invasion when he was 15; he grew up to be a successful capitalist and family man. If he'd fought a duel against somebody for using "Yankee" as an insult, he would've been the ultimate American. What, he did that? Never mind then.
Then there was his record during the revolution. He planned and led the famous siege of Fort Ticonderoga. Somewhere around here his wife died, but he soldiered on, masterminding the strategic invasion of Quebec, where he held position for weeks despite being cut off from the rest of the army and shot in the leg. He held back the British at Lake Champlain, he was instrumental in the Danbury raid, he was essential to the success of the Battle of Saratoga. If he fell off a bridge and died at this point, there would be a 50-foot tall statue of him in Connecticut, made of platinum and diamonds.
he army must have loved this guy, right? Surely by this stage he was being carried everywhere by a living throne of nubile young women. Wait, instead they repeatedly passed him over for promotion with younger, less experienced men? And other officers tried to take credit for his achievements? And he was investigated by congress on baseless accusations of corruption?
Basically, after all his bravery, sacrifice and bullet holes, America seemed to develop a great passion for kicking Arnold in the gut. It didn't help that at the same time they were creating an alliance with France, the bad guys from Arnold's teenage war adventures. Under those conditions, it's understandable that he'd quit the team.
People may have had more respect for him if, rather than being sneaky about it, he'd yelled "feth you all, I'm with England now" as he rode off giving everyone the rudest gesture of the times. It's the betrayal that irks people. But hey, America, you started it.
Cracked
Read up his defense of Lake Champlain. He literally took the British fleet, declared them his bitch, and then he beat them with row boats.
Treason, and conspiracy to commit treason remain capital offenses.
Thus, it is foolish to discuss hypothetical treason on the internet- which remains a very public forum. Common sense would dictate that 99% of us are joking, but because of that 1% the rest may still be investigated or prosecuted.
That's why I only discuss plans for maritime piracy on the web.
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
I would never betray Dakka because otherwise I would be baned.
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
Avatar 720 wrote: I would never betray Dakka because otherwise I would be baned.
We'll all be baned someday, it's just a matter of time.
Oh, you think dakka is your ally. But you merely adopted the bane; I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see the DCM Forum until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but Off Topic!
Witness the extraordinarily low bar of ambition that socialism sets, gentlemen.
What? Did you post in the wrong thread, ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/06 11:50:33
RegalPhantom wrote: If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog
15 successful trades as a buyer;
16 successful trades as a seller;
To glimpse the future, you must look to the past and understand it. Names may change, but human behavior repeats itself. Prophetic insight is nothing more than profound hindsight.
It doesn't matter how bloody far the apple falls from the tree. If the apple fell off of a Granny Smith, that apple is going to grow into a Granny bloody Smith. The only difference is whether that apple grows in the shade of the tree it fell from.
Officially elevated by St. God of Yams to the rank of Scholar of the Church of the Children of the Eternal Turtle Pie at 11:42:36 PM 05/01/09 
