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So here we go again, cos that's worked before (for both sides)

Here's an idea. Why don't one of the warring sides pull the rug from under the other side by doing something profoundly positive? Something that gives you the moral high ground in the eyes in the world. Something that even those normally opposed to you say "fair play, you've done the right thing there".

Or you could just keep killing each other, building up resentment and actually gaining FETH all when the smoke clears.

Just an idea.

Missiles hit Tel Aviv yesterday. Hamas has been firing 30-50 missiles a day into Israel.

Thats war (again). This could get very bad over there.

 Wolfstan wrote:

Here's an idea. Why don't one of the warring sides pull the rug from under the other side by doing something profoundly positive? Something that gives you the moral high ground in the eyes in the world. Something that even those normally opposed to you say "fair play, you've done the right thing there".

Because if Israelis did something like, build a soccer stadium for the Palestinians use, the Palestinians would view it as a trick/trap, and blow it up with rockets (probably with people inside) if the Palestinians did something similar, the Israelis would view it as a trap, and never use it.... and they'd promptly be unsurprised when Hamas or other Palestinian groups blew up this new "gift building"

To much lead has pass between them to make nice. Eventually I see Israel pretty much pushing the Palestinians out.

Oh its this time again? Pft, meh, same crap different day. So far the BBC's doing their typical thing of spending all their time noting the Israeli strikes in civilian areas, but failing to point out the Palestinians have been launching just as many rockets at the Israelis. Whatever, call me when this turns into something more than what goes on there every other day of the week. At least this means there's plenty of shots of those snazzy Israeli Merkavas and Namers on the Tv, though otherwise this isn't new until someone other than Hamas involves themselves.

Whenever tensions flare up it reminds me to look into how awesome the Israeli Iron Dome is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/09/world/meast/israel-palestinians-iron-dome/

Think someone in Israel government prepared to pull the trigger for mass eviction of Gaza Strip.

 ironicsilence wrote:
Whenever tensions flare up it reminds me to look into how awesome the Israeli Iron Dome is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/09/world/meast/israel-palestinians-iron-dome/

For a wild moment I thought it would turn out to be an actual dome made of iron...

I am disappoint.

All I know is, if my family lived there, they wouldn't for long.

"Whats the rally point sir?"
"Any where but here."
-That guy.

I'm not actually sure what the end game could be for either side at this point.

Someone mention cutting water and electricity off

 ironicsilence wrote:
Whenever tensions flare up it reminds me to look into how awesome the Israeli Iron Dome is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/09/world/meast/israel-palestinians-iron-dome/

I agree that it's a technically incredible system, but - and I'm not an economist here, so I could be wrong - I can't help but think there's a fundamental problem with using $50,000 missiles to shoot down $5 projectiles

On the other hand, I guess since the US taxpayer is picking up the check, who cares, right?

 Ouze wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
Whenever tensions flare up it reminds me to look into how awesome the Israeli Iron Dome is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/09/world/meast/israel-palestinians-iron-dome/

I agree that it's a technically incredible system, but - and I'm not an economist here, so I could be wrong - I can't help but think there's a fundamental problem with using $50,000 missiles to shoot down $5 projectiles

On the other hand, I guess since the US taxpayer is picking up the check, who cares, right?

That's the secret plan, keep shooting at each other till the US is China.

Israel is making a bad name for jews, they should get virus bombed 40k style!

 Big Mac wrote:
Israel is making a bad name for jews, they should get virus bombed 40k style!

WTF??? I can't see them making a bad name for other Jews in this situation... I'm sure they got all those arms at a VERY good price, and better than MSRP too

They're about to go all out Imperial Guard on Gaza

 Big Mac wrote:
Israel is making a bad name for jews, they should get virus bombed 40k style!

Uh, can we keep dumb requests for genocide out of this thread please?

 Wyrmalla wrote:

 Big Mac wrote:
Israel is making a bad name for jews, they should get virus bombed 40k style!

Uh, can we keep dumb requests for genocide out of this thread please?

Yes, absolutely.

Let's all do that, please.

Thanks!

 Wyrmalla wrote:

 Big Mac wrote:
Israel is making a bad name for jews, they should get virus bombed 40k style!

Uh, can we keep dumb requests for genocide out of this thread please?

Except for squirrels. They're Satan's kangaroos...

And here I was just thinking it had been awhile since Israel and its neighbors had a nice one sided scuffle

 Ouze wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
Whenever tensions flare up it reminds me to look into how awesome the Israeli Iron Dome is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Dome
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/09/world/meast/israel-palestinians-iron-dome/

I agree that it's a technically incredible system, but - and I'm not an economist here, so I could be wrong - I can't help but think there's a fundamental problem with using $50,000 missiles to shoot down $5 projectiles

On the other hand, I guess since the US taxpayer is picking up the check, who cares, right?

Nah... it's probably quite effective R&D results from these operations.

Israel expanding the border again eh

Even the elephants at Israeli zoo huddle to protect young as sirens wail...

Eugh, I facepalm a little whenever a Palestinian representative does an interview with the BBC. The fellow they had on last night discussing the whole affair gave the typical line as ever of "the Israelis are horrible people. Why do they keep hitting us?". The situation's down to two sides both down stupid crap to one another, but I suppose that could be said of a lot of disputes. I don't agree how the Palestinians are being portrayed by the media though. "The Israelis are killing civilians", yeah, but that's because you've placed all your military installations and recruitment camps in populated areas so can whine every time there's collateral damage. "The Israelis keep firing missiles at us", uhuh, and are you doing the exact same thing and deliberately targeting civilians outside of military zones? "Well stop shooting if the Israelis quit it first", no, I don't think that's how one sorts out these situations, you're just saying that to pander to the media and make the other side come across as not being diplomatic by not agreeing to your dumb ass terms ("we'll stop shooting if the Israelis quit it first, oh and if they also give back all the land they took and maybe bake us some nice cake too").

So whilst I don't fully agree with how Israel handles these kinds of things, I'll say that the Palestinians don't do much to make me feel sorry for them. Why the media seems to jump on the Palestinian side with these things I haven't a clue, given that their government and state media and just such horrible, horrible people. The Palestinians just come across as being childish, I mean they sit there launching missiles and sending terrorists into Israel all day, but when the Israelis bite back they run off crying to the rest of the world. Oh I can understand why they're disgruntled, but the tactics they use to fight the Israelis, both militarily and their domestic policy (which is just rife with anti-Semitism and jihadist crap) paints those use them as being pretty damn awful. The Palestinian representatives seem to clam up pretty quick when they start being asked about what they're doing to Israel in return, or just why they decide to stick all their weapons on top of apartment blocks. The Israelis will have to negotiate at some point (whether that's after they've send in ground forces or not is up to them), but I can see why they don't trust the opposition, not just because of previous experience, but rather the guys they'll be talking to are internationally recognised as being terrorists. So anyway, there's a point in there somewhere, beyond me pondering why people consider the Israelis to be any worse than the Palestinians, but whatever. Jews killed Jesus and all the other crap. =P

The funny thing about the Israeli approach to the Palestinians over the years (Hamas, the PLO, etc), is that whilst horribly un-PC (and often very anti 'human rights') in many ways, it tends to generally work.

For example. You had many, many Israeli's getting killed by bombs going off in bins, cars, and sundry other things. The Israeli solution? Build a massive fecking wall, and keep all the palestinians on the other side of it. Result? Bombings are slashed to negligible numbers on completion. Israeli lives saved.

If your view is that the first duty of a state is to protect the lives of its citizens, Israel goes far, far out of its way to tick that box, regardless of what anyone else thinks of them or their methods. And I can't help but admire that slightly, in a disbelieving sort of way.

 Ketara wrote:
The funny thing about the Israeli approach to the Palestinians over the years (Hamas, the PLO, etc), is that whilst horribly un-PC (and often very anti 'human rights') in many ways, it tends to generally work.

For example. You had many, many Israeli's getting killed by bombs going off in bins, cars, and sundry other things. The Israeli solution? Build a massive fecking wall, and keep all the palestinians on the other side of it. Result? Bombings are slashed to negligible numbers on completion. Israeli lives saved.

If your view is that the first duty of a state is to protect the lives of its citizens, Israel goes far, far out of its way to tick that box, regardless of what anyone else thinks of them or their methods. And I can't help but admire that slightly, in a disbelieving sort of way.

I also understand that said well will be highly effective in preventing the zombie apocalypse... So long as the zombie don't form an undead ladder or something but I think the chances of something so ridiculous are fairly remote

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Oh I can understand why they're disgruntled, but the tactics they use to fight the Israelis, both militarily and their domestic policy (which is just rife with anti-Semitism and jihadist crap) paints those use them as being pretty damn awful.

I agree. But the simple fact remains if Israel wanted an end to the issue they could simply stop building settlements and withdraw the settlements they've already built on Palestinian land. But they don't.

I don't think this entitles Palestine to respond as they have, but we need to be realistic about who actually has the power to stop this.

And that's why I hate Israel, among things.

 Ketara wrote:
The funny thing about the Israeli approach to the Palestinians over the years (Hamas, the PLO, etc), is that whilst horribly un-PC (and often very anti 'human rights') in many ways, it tends to generally work.

I don't think anyone is looking at Isreal and Palestine as an example of a working solution. On-going low level warfare for three generations with no end in sight? Please give me some of that!

For example. You had many, many Israeli's getting killed by bombs going off in bins, cars, and sundry other things. The Israeli solution? Build a massive fecking wall, and keep all the palestinians on the other side of it. Result? Bombings are slashed to negligible numbers on completion.

Many hundreds of thousands of Palestinians work in Israel, and travel through checkpoints on the wall on a daily basis. And there are many hundreds of thousands of ethnic Palestinians who happen to live within Israel, many with loyalty to Palestine.

While defenders of the wall often point to the drop in bombings after 2004, the truth is that 2001 to 2004 was a spike in bombings (suicide bombing campaigns are rarely sustained, for one fairly obvious reason ). The rates are now pretty much back to what they were in 1990s.

My view of Israel's policy over these kinds of threats are that every country in the region hates them, so they need to provide a deterrent. They can't talk to their enemies because the same people don't believe Israel should be a country in the first place (not just because religious matters), and kind of set a base line for future diplomatic discussions after they invaded it half a dozen times. If Israel allows itself to lose land to one of its local enemies then it means throwing the people living in those areas to the wolves. I consider that they need to make their enemies know that they're stronger than them at every possible instance, otherwise they'll leave themselves open to abuse (such as youknow all the wars they've had to fight). It just so happens that in order to do this they tend to be heavy handed in such matters and piss off plenty of people, but as long as they keep their own population safe that's secondary it would seem. Personally I can respect how the Israelis handle themselves, if not wholly agree with them because of the long term repercussions. When the guys across the border are preaching genocide and launching missiles at you I don't think that taking a harsh stance against them's too out of bounds.

I suppose my feeling is that the Israelis take a realistic standpoint given how the rest of the region thinks of them. They know nobody likes them and that that's not going to change no matter how much work they put in, so they've just said screw it and do what it takes to keep their enemies in check. Of course they also aren't the best of allies either, nor do they care too much for international conventions (IRC I don't think you're allowed to mount a 105mm gun on your field Ambulances), but given that for the most part they provide a pro-western strong point in the region governments let their foreign policy slide. Anyway, I consider that the Israeli's tactics of aggressively defending themselves to be a legitimate method of keeping their country from being run over by every other country in the region. Of course one day it might not work out quite so well (Tel Aviv seems to be a sure target for nuclear attack in fiction for some reason), but for the moment its keeping their enemies in check. Given that they're a country the size of Wales and have so many enemies which have proven they'll invade them at the slightest show of weakness, and well based on previous failed diplomatic efforts too, I don't think with the current state of affairs the Israelis can do much else but keep stamping everyone into the dirt, even if it isn't so agreeable by our modern PC standards.