sirlynchmob wrote:
I didn't miss it, unless you can produce the evidence that they gave notice, or Hamas did such a thing with no evidence what so ever.

You keep ignoring this part: Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given.

Pointing to two or three cases where they can be shown to be military targets, and saying therefore the 2000 other hits must also be military targets is outright ludicrous.

As the occupying force everything they are doing right now is against the Geneva convention and ergo warcrimes.

sirlynchmob wrote:
Generally those who have been invaded are the victim.

Blaming them for being invaded and occupied is the same as saying in WWII the french resistance is evil and full of terrorists, how dare they fight back against those who invaded them. Germany should have kept killing everyone there until france laid down it's weapons and accepted it's occupation.

sirlynchmob wrote:
Everyone laugh at the blood thirsty american who thinks any country should be free to invade any other country for any reasons what so ever.

Oh wait, like they did in Iraq. But I guess you should have just let Iraq keep Kuwait, after all they did conquer it.

sirlynchmob wrote:


Blaming them for being invaded and occupied is the same as saying in WWII the french resistance is evil and full of terrorists, how dare they fight back against those who invaded them. Germany should have kept killing everyone there until france laid down it's weapons and accepted it's occupation.

 Gitzbitah wrote:
Blaming the victim and Godwinning in the last page- will we win dakkabingo before the lock?

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
I didn't miss it, unless you can produce the evidence that they gave notice, or Hamas did such a thing with no evidence what so ever.

You keep ignoring this part: Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given.

Pointing to two or three cases where they can be shown to be military targets, and saying therefore the 2000 other hits must also be military targets is outright ludicrous.

As the occupying force everything they are doing right now is against the Geneva convention and ergo warcrimes.

Hamas are also meant to clearly mark certain buildings under the law of war to help prevent targeting of these facilities. Given their disregard for the lawful conduct of war (when it suits them) has this happened?

I haven't ignored anything, it has already been pointed out several times by myself and others that Israel warns residents of airstrikes and asks them to leave the vicinity. Israel has a proven track record of making attempts to mitigate civilian casualties, and developing a pioneering warning system before carrying out strikes. That is indisputable. Hamas's record shows the opposite.
If you would like an example of Israel warning a hospital (i.e. giving notice) there is - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/10970795/Gaza-hospital-defies-Israel-evacuation-warning-amid-fears-for-frail-patients.html
As I said, this is an example. Feel free to ignore it at your leisure while demanding thousands of other examples you'll see fit to ignore in any event.

What is ludicrous is ignoring evidence that runs against your narrative while asking for details of every military strike in the midst of a hot conflict. Or proclaiming that Israel are committing war crimes without actually waiting for evidence from each party to be provided.

So launching hundreds of rockets at your neighbour and provoking a conflict makes you a victim. Interesting definition.
Was Kuwait launching rockets at Iraq?

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
An interesting article from ArabNews that asks the question, "Why hasn't Hamas built any bomb shelters?"

http://www.arabnews.com/news/602511

I'm sure our ill-informed yet dogmatic Canadian friend here will argue that Israel intercepts building materials that could be used to build bomb shelters. This is patently ridiculous, however, given that Hamas has built a number of shelters...for their bombs; a network of tunnels that would make the Vietcong proud.

The truth is that there are no bomb shelters in Gaza because Hamas wants to parade dead children around in front of the camera to garner international support.

sirlynchmob wrote:


Now why not address the real issue, doesn't a country have the right to defend itself and fight back against it's invaders, even after occupation?

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
An interesting article from ArabNews that asks the question, "Why hasn't Hamas built any bomb shelters?"

http://www.arabnews.com/news/602511

I'm sure our ill-informed yet dogmatic Canadian friend here will argue that Israel intercepts building materials that could be used to build bomb shelters. This is patently ridiculous, however, given that Hamas has built a number of shelters...for their bombs; a network of tunnels that would make the Vietcong proud.

The truth is that there are no bomb shelters in Gaza because Hamas wants to parade dead children around in front of the camera to garner international support.

Hamas wants Israel to Bomb and Invade Gaza. So don't do it.

One or two people have asked me what I think of the current state of affairs in Gaza. More or less the same as I did the last time – see here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1104697/PETER-HITCHENS-Will-Israel-learn-Each-bomb-gift-enemies.html

I am distressed by the way in which supporters of Israel feel the need to be so uncritical about such things.

I remain a hard-line Jabotinsky Zionist, unmoved by megatons of Arab and Muslim propaganda on this issue, sceptical of every ‘peace process’ so far suggested and unconvinced that there is really a ‘Two-State solution’ available. No Jewish or Arab leader could agree to a truly fair and workable deal, without enraging his own side. Much better to develop an informal compromise at low level.

And even I can see that Israeli bombing and shelling of Gaza is *exactly what Hamas wants*.

It will solve nothing. Israel has done very well with its missile shields and being far less densely-populated than Gaza can protect its people reasonably effectively. Any losses will of course be tragic, but the tragedy will not be lessened by matching tragedies in Gaza.

I also (having many times visited Israel and the neighbouring territory, including Gaza itself) rather like the peoples of the region, sympathize with them, living in fear in their homes, want to spare them from death and terror.

Hamas, as all experts know, is in quite a lot of difficulty since it lost its friends, the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood government. An Israeli attack is about the only thing that could once again unite the people of Gaza under Hamas’s banner. So why do it?

By that logic the pre-Civil Rights America was only structurally biased against Black people, it wasn't anti-Black.

 Soladrin wrote:
Demonstrations against Israel in Brussels and Paris went out of hand today.

People were running around with signs saying DEATH TO ALL JEWS and such.

And they wonder why we back Israel.

 Soladrin wrote:

 Gitzbitah wrote:
Blaming the victim and Godwinning in the last page- will we win dakkabingo before the lock?

Let's make an effort.

Also, are we not forgetting that Hamas was voted into power, it wasn't some coup or anything, the people wanted the guys that use human shields and have an objective of racism and extermination. Obviously not all the people voted for them, but it's still the case that a majority supports these murderers.

 Soladrin wrote:

 Gitzbitah wrote:
Blaming the victim and Godwinning in the last page- will we win dakkabingo before the lock?

Let's make an effort.

Also, are we not forgetting that Hamas was voted into power, it wasn't some coup or anything, the people wanted the guys that use human shields and have an objective of racism and extermination. Obviously not all the people voted for them, but it's still the case that a majority supports these murderers.

 Jihadin wrote:
I thought the world had become more tranquil

 LordofHats wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
I thought the world had become more tranquil

Well being in the region of Palestine/Israel might suck, but don't worry;



Bunnies make everything better (well, they don't make 30 year wars better, but we can't have everything now can we?)

The Middle East is just gonna keep sucking for the next few years it seems. Gaza, West Bank, Syria, Iraq, and now its looking like some more serious gak might be kicking up in Egypt. Lebanon's been teetering around since that prime minister got blown up. World keeps on a turning.

Anti semites welcomed as heroes in the muslim world

Jewish schools and synagogues are heavily protected bunkers. The violence of Muslims against Jews is no coincidence, it has nothing to do with Isreal but stems from centuries of carefully cultivated hate of Jews, says David Suurland.

David Suurland

In March 2012, the 23 year old Mohammed Merah entered a Jewish primary school armed with a gun and carefully cultivated hate against Jews in the French city of Toulouse. There he killed a rabbi and three children. He lifted up the seven year old Myriam Monsonego, after which he put the gun against her temple and shot her through the head.

If this Jew hunt, for it was nothing else, wasnt already the writing on the wall, then the reactions would have been. Immediately after the identity of Merah became known a group was started on Facebook where people could show their support - to the perpetrator mind you, not the victims.

In the space of a few hours 2000 French Muslims had already voiced their support for their brother Merah. Only because the French authorities forced Facebook to close this group did this number not increase markedly [not exactly the words he uses, he says: 'werden dat er niet veel meer', but the translation conveys the general meaning]. Neighbors congratulated the mother of Merah on the heroic deed of her son and as posthumous declarations of support to Merah antisemetic incidents in France had risen by 40% after the first ten days of the attack. The Jewish school was burried onder phone calls and e-mails that threathened to finish the work of Merah.

Attacks like those in Toulouse, Brussels [the recent shooting in a Jewish museum by a returned Jihadist] or the assault on two synagogues in Paris are not isolated incidents. They are the logical consequence of broadly based and deeply embedded hate against Jews in the Islamic community. In almost all large European cities with sizable Islamic populations Jews have to face structural intimidations, threats and acts of violence, mainly from the Islamic corner. Where does this hate come from?

Many Muslims, according to them, do not hate Jews; they just respond to the injustice that is being done to the Palestinians. This excuse of moral outrage is absolutely unbelievable. Where where they when other Muslims suffered injustice? The killings of Saddam Hussein, ISIS or al-Qaeda in Iraq, the 170.000 dead and millions of refugees in Syria; the Arab massacre of 200.000 black Muslims in Darfur did not achieve one credible demonstration on the Spuiplein [a location in the centre of The Hague]. A hundred dead Palestinians on the other hand are a ''genocide'' comparable to the Holocaust, managing to cut the Islamic sense of justice to the bone. At least, that is what they would like us to believe.

This would involve the ''fight against zionism''. But that is an old and meaningless semantic ploy. Just like the nazis primarily meant the Jews with the term ''communists'', and the communists talked about ''capitalists'' when they meant Jews, so do many Muslims use the term ''zionists'' to talk about the Jews. An exception is made for the Naturei Karta, an obscure Jewish sect that denies the right to exist for Isreal, other then them all Jews that recognize Isreal's right to exist are zionists.

That is also apparent in the qualifications that are assigned to zionists; these are equal to the manner of how earlier anti semites talked about Jews. During the demonstration in The Hague all anti Jewish prejudices of earlier anti semites were, one by one, declared applicable to the ''zionists'': ''zionists'' controlled the media, world leaders bowed before the power of the ''zionists'' and ''zionists'' only wanted one thing: total war [emphasis mine in regards to the discussion] against everyone that stood against them.

Thus, under the guise of human rights, centuries old conspiracy theories about the Jews are whitewashed and received with war cries by an enthusiastic crowd - and while the police is watching. Where does this fixation on the Jews come from?

In the Islamic way of thinking the Jews went wrong the moment they did not recognize Muhammad as their prophet. From that moment on canonical sources of the Islam describe Jews in almost exclusively negative terms. They are the ones that falsified the word of Allah for their own profit, conceal the thruth and kill their prophets.

Likewise, in theological discourses from the Islamic Middle Ages and modern times there always is a common theme: the Jew is the obvious enemy of Allah and Islam. The comparison with Christian anti semitism is clear. And where 2000 years of Christian anti semetic theology created the public acceptance for the Holocaust, it would be naïve to suppose that 1400 years of Islamic anti semitism would be without consequences. Which it is not.

In a large-scale inquiry by the authoritative PEW institute, in 2010, Muslism from Egypt to Indonesia where asked about their thoughts on Jews. Mind you, this is about Jews, not Israelites. A minimum of 95% of the population of Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan indicated that they thought highly negative about Jews. In Turkey, Pakistan and Indonesia this was a minimum of 73%. A striking detail, the only Muslims that were predominantly positive about Jews (54% positive) were Muslims in Isreal.

For those who know the media enviroment and the education system of these countries the results will be no suprise. For years now the state as well as the mosque, both for their own reasons, shift the blame of their everyday problems on the old enemy: the Jews. The illiteracy, the corruption and the poverty these countries are facing are, in the intensly tribal and racist world view of these societies, not the consequence of their own incompetence, but a Jewish plot against the Muslims.

That this way of thinking in international plots and hostile view [this part does not translate well, the idea can be explained by an example, it can be compared to how the West saw the communists in the Cold War, the stereotype so to say] seamlessly connect with the anti semitism of national socialist nature is therefore no coincidence. August Rohling’s pro anti semetic Der Talmudjude, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and Hitler’s Mein Kampf are consistently on the bestseller list in the Islamic world.

Where Holocaust deniers like David Irving or Robert Faurisson are treated as part of the criminal layer of society in their own countries, so are they welcomed as heroes in the Islamic world, receiving presidential distinctions, airtime and royal subsidies to continue their ''academic research''. So too did French anti semite Dieudonné, the anti semite that managed to mobilize the Islamic public as well as the Left, receive money from Iran to continue his ''fight against the zionists''.

The simple fact is that the nazis would have been jealous of the way the state and mosque have managed to indoctrinate multiple generations of their population with the most virulent hate of Jews.

It therefore was inevitable, that with the mass migration, Islamic hate of Jews has set foot in Europe. With much effort and opposition the scientific community is withdrawing itself from repressive political correct thinking that Muslims only are the victims of rascism - not offenders.

The first careful steps in research about the size of Islamic hate of Jews in Europe paint a bleak picture: on average, 40% of Muslims have explicit anti semetic beliefs. It is important to note that these are not explicit anti Isreal beliefs but explicit anti Jewish beliefs.

It has to be strongly emphasized: people can be critical about Isreal without being anti semetic. For example in the extremely Isreal critical Sweden only 5% of the non-Muslims can be identified as anti semetic, among Muslims this is 39%. In the Netherlands this is 40% of the Muslims against 9% of non-Muslims.

Research by three Belgian universities show that hatred against Jews amonst Belgian Islamic students is seven times as high as amongst non-Muslims; almost half of questioned Islamic students held classic anti semetic views. And here too many rushed to declare that these findings were the results of Islamic frustrations about the Isreali-Palestinian conflict.

However, professor Elchardus that lead the Belgian research, emphasized that this hate against Jews was not caused by the Isreali-Palestinian conflict, the socioeconomic disadvantage or the educational level, but that: ''the anti semitism amongst the Muslim students is theologically inspired. There is a direct link between being a Muslim and fostering anti semetic feelings.''

A recent German study by research agency Wissenschaftszentrum Berlin für Sozialforschung (WZB) among Muslims in six European countries confirms this image: 45% of the Muslims agreed with the anti semetic thesis that Jews could categorically not be trusted, and here too the main cause identified was religion. That is not to say that 40% of the Muslims would want to send the Jews to the gas chamber, but neither did most Germans want this in 1933. The Sharia would, it has to be said, not allow it either.

Yet the acceptation of a certain hostile view [again think of Cold War stereotype views] is leading to ever greater excesses. One in five history teachers in the four big cities [i.e. the Dutch Amsterdam, The Hague, Rotterdam and Utrecht] has occasionally, seventy years after Auschwitz, been unable to discuss the Holocaust, mainly because Islamic students have difficulty with it. With the fighting between Hamas and Isreal the floodgates have opened on social media. There the hatred against Jews is running loose. Muslims that with first and last name, education, employer and etc. are calling for the gassing of Jews or blaming Hitler for not finishing his works has become normal. This lack of shame tells much about the social acceptance of this kind of behaviour. Where these viewpoints and behaviour are commonplace, intimidations, threats and physical violence will naturally follow.

In the meantime, and that is the second problem, a whole generation of Islam researchers, cultural antropologists, human rights organisations and politicians will be aware through there connections with Muslims and the Islamic world how anti semitism was and is occuring. But they knowingly kept quiet, or worse, condoned the problem. Off course, you dont want to alienate your political followers, you dont want to loose that Gulf state funded scholarship for your academic research and if your political focus is the combating of Isreal or the evil West, then the Islamic world is a very generous ally.

Quite a lot of careers are build on ignoring, concealing and covering up the cesspool that is slowly opening. If you keep quiet about it because of opportunism of fear then that is one thing. But that you actively oppose the people dat do have the moral backbone to adress this problem by accusing them of rascism and even endanger them, it testifies of a shocking moral bankruptcy

How often are Bolkestein, Fortuyn, Jansen, Ellian, Hirsi Ali, Van Gogh of Wilders [Dutch politicians] not accused of encouraging rascism? If it concerns hatred against Jews amongst Muslism they are just right. And we havent even discussed the likewise endemic hatred against homosexuals, intolerance of people who think differently or apostates

Off course Muslims in Europe also face rascism. But where a Muslim can walk through a Jewish neighbourhood without fear, a smart Jew with a yarmulke will not try the same in an Islamic neighbourhood in Lyon, Antwerp, Malmö or Berlin. While nowhere in the whole of Europe Muslims at a mosque are beset by Jewish youths, visitors to the synagogue in Paris have to take into account that they will be insulted, beaten, stabbed or shot by Islamic youths. No Islamic school needs to arrange protection because Jews threaten to kill the children. Jewish schools on the other hand have deteriorated into heavily protected bunkers.

This is the reality. You dont need a Toulouse or Brussels to realize that intimidation, rascism and violence of Muslims against Jews is a daily occurence that does not stem from coincidence.

Dutch article:

Spoiler:

Antisemieten als helden ingehaald in moslimwereld

Joodse scholen en synagogen zijn zwaar beveiligde bunkers. Het geweld van moslims tegen Joden is geen toeval, heeft niets te maken met Israël maar komt voort uit eeuwenlang zorgvuldig gekweekte Jodenhaat, aldus David Suurland.

David Suurland
In maart 2012 drong de 23-jarige Mohammed Merah gewapend met een geweer en een zorgvuldig gekweekte haat voor Joden in het Franse Toulouse een Joodse basisschool binnen. Daar schoot hij een rabbijn en drie kinderen dood. De zevenjarige Myriam Monsonego tilde hij aan het haar omhoog, waarna hij een geweer op haar slaap zette en haar door het hoofd schoot.

Als deze Jodenjacht, want iets anders was het niet, al geen teken aan de wand was, waren de reacties dat wel. Meteen nadat de identiteit van Merah bekend was geworden, werd op Facebook een groep opgericht waar mensen hun steun konden betuigen – aan de dader welteverstaan, niet aan de slachtoffers.

Binnen enkele uren hadden tweeduizend Franse moslims hun steun aan broeder Merah betuigd. Alleen omdat de Franse autoriteiten Facebook dwongen deze groep te sluiten, werden dat er niet veel meer. Buurtgenoten feliciteerden de moeder van Merah met de heldendaad van haar zoon en als postume steunbetuiging aan Merah schoot in de eerste tien dagen na de aanslag in heel Frankrijk het aantal antisemitische incidenten met 40 procent omhoog. De Joodse school werd bedolven onder telefoontjes en mailtjes waarin werd gedreigd het werk van Merah af te maken.

Aanslagen zoals in Toulouse, Brussel of de bestorming van twee synagoges in Parijs staan niet op zichzelf. Ze zijn het logisch gevolg van een breed gedragen en diep in de islamitische gemeenschap verankerde Jodenhaat. In bijna alle grote Europese steden met een aanzienlijke islamitische populatie hebben Joden te kampen met structurele intimidaties, bedreigingen en geweldpleging vanuit voornamelijk islamitische hoek. Waar komt die haat vandaan?

Vele moslims haten volgens eigen zeggen Joden niet; ze reageren slechts op het onrecht dat de Palestijnen wordt aangedaan. Dit excuus van morele verontwaardiging is volstrekt ongeloofwaardig. Waar waren zij toen andere moslims onrecht werd aangedaan? De moordpartijen van Saddam Hoessein, ISIS of al-Qaeda in Irak, de 170.000 doden en miljoenen vluchtelingen in Syrië; de Arabische afslachting van 200.000 zwarte moslims in Darfur hebben niet één noemenswaardige demonstratie op het Spuiplein weten te veroorzaken. Honderd dode Palestijnen daarentegen zijn een met de Holocaust te vergelijken ‘genocide’ die het rechtvaardigheidsgevoel van de islamitische ziel tot op het bot weet te krenken. Althans, zo wil men doen geloven.

Daarbij zou het gaan om een ‘strijd tegen het zionisme’. Maar dat is een oude en weinig zeggende semantische truc. Net zoals de nazi’s met de term ‘communisten’ vooral Joden op het oog hadden, en de communisten met de term ‘kapitalisten’ het ook over Joden hadden, zo hebben vele moslims het met de term ‘zionisten’ ook over Joden. Er wordt een uitzondering gemaakt voor de Naturei Karta, een obscure Joodse sekte die het bestaansrecht van Israël ontkent, maar verder zijn alle Joden die het bestaansrecht van Israël erkennen zionisten.

Dat blijkt ook uit de kwalificaties die zionisten worden toebedeeld; deze zijn gelijk aan de wijze waarop eerdere antisemieten het over Joden hadden. Tijdens de demonstratie in Den Haag werden alle anti-Joodse vooroordelen van eerdere antisemieten een voor een op de ‘zionisten’ van toepassing verklaard: ‘zionisten’ controleren de media, wereldleiders buigen voor de macht van de ‘zionisten’ en ‘zionisten’ willen slechts één ding: de totale oorlog aan iedereen die tegen hen is.

Zo worden onder het mom van mensenrechten eeuwenoude complottheorieën over Joden witgewassen en door een enthousiaste menigte met strijdkreten ontvangen – en de politie kijkt toe. Waar komt die fixatie op de Joden eigenlijk vandaan?

In de islamitische denkwereld gaat het voor de Joden fout op het moment dat zij Mohammed niet erkennen als profeet. Vanaf dat moment beschrijven de canonieke bronnen van de islam de Joden vrijwel uitsluitend in negatieve termen. Zij zijn het die voor eigen gewin bewust het woord van Allah hebben vervalst, de waarheid verhullen, hun profeten vermoorden.

Ook in de theologische verhandelingen van de islamitische middeleeuwen en moderne tijd loopt een rode draad: de Jood is de vanzelfsprekende vijand van Allah en de islam. De vergelijking met het christelijk antisemitisme is evident. En daar waar 2000 jaar christelijk antisemitische theologie het maatschappelijk draagvlak voor de Holocaust creëerde, zou het naïef zijn te veronderstellen dat 1400 jaar islamitisch antisemitisme zonder gevolgen zou zijn. Dat is het dan ook niet.

In een grootschalig onderzoek van het gezaghebbende PEW instituut uit 2010 werd aan moslims van Egypte tot aan Indonesië gevraagd hoe zij dachten over Joden. Let wel het gaat hier om Joden, niet om Israëliërs. Minimaal 95 procent van de bevolking van Egypte, Libanon en Jordanië gaf aan zeer negatief over Joden te denken. In Turkije, Pakistan en Indonesië was dit minimaal 73 procent. Saillant detail, de enige moslims die overwegend positief over Joden dachten (54 procent positief) waren de moslims in Israël.

Voor wie het medialandschap en onderwijssysteem in deze landen kent, zijn deze uitslagen geen verrassing. Sinds jaar en dag wentelen zowel de staat als de moskee, beide om eigen redenen, de problemen van alledag af op de aloude vijand: de Joden. Het analfabetisme, de corruptie en de armoede waar deze landen mee kampen, zijn in het intens tribale en racistische wereldbeeld van deze samenlevingen niet het gevolg van de eigen incompetentie, maar van een Joods wereldcomplot tegen de moslims.

Dat dit denken in termen van internationale complotten en absolute vijandsbeelden naadloos aansluit bij het antisemitisme van nationaal-socialistische aard is dan ook geen toeval. August Rohling’s proto-antisemitische Der Talmudjude, de Protocollen van de Wijzen van Zion en Hitler’s Mein Kampf staan in de islamitische wereld steevast in de top van de bestsellerlijst.

Daar waar Holocaustontkenners zoals David Irving of Robert Faurisson in eigen land tot de criminele onderlaag van de maatschappij worden gerekend, worden zij in de islamitische wereld als helden verwelkomd, krijgen ze presidentiële onderscheidingen, zendtijd en royale subsidies om hun ‘academisch onderzoek’ voort te kunnen zetten. Ook de Franse antisemiet Dieudonné, die het antisemitisme onder zowel links als islamitisch publiek wist te mobiliseren, kreeg geld van Iran om zijn ‘strijd tegen de zionisten’ voort te zetten.

Het simpele feit is dat de nazi’s jaloers zouden zijn op de wijze waarop zowel de staat als de moskee meerdere generaties van de bevolking met de meest virulente Jodenhaat hebben weten te indoctrineren.

Het kon dan ook niet uitblijven: met de massale immigratie heeft de islamitische Jodenhaat voet aan wal in Europa gezet. Met veel moeite en tegenwerking onttrekt de wetenschap zich aan een repressief politiek correct denken dat moslims alleen maar slachtoffers van racisme zouden zijn - en geen daders.

De eerste voorzichtige stappen in het onderzoek naar de omvang van islamitische Jodenhaat in Europa schetsen een inktzwart beeld: gemiddeld houdt ruim 40 procent van de moslims er uitdrukkelijk antisemitische overtuigingen op na. Daarbij gaat het expliciet niet om anti-Israëlische maar om anti-Joodse meningen.

Het moet nadrukkelijk worden gesteld: men kan zonder enig probleem kritisch zijn op Israël zonder een antisemiet te zijn. Zo wordt in het uiterst Israël kritische Zweden slechts 5 procent van de niet-moslims als antisemiet aangemerkt, onder moslims is dat 39 procent. In Nederland is het 40 procent van de moslims tegen 9 procent van de niet-islamitische bevolking.

Onderzoek door drie Belgische universiteiten toont aan dat Jodenhaat onder Belgische islamitische studenten zeven keer zo hoog was als die onder niet-moslims; bijna de helft van alle ondervraagde islamitische studenten hield er klassiek antisemitische denkbeelden op na. En ook hier haastten velen zich om deze bevindingen exclusief te wijten aan islamitische frustraties over het Israëlisch-Palestijns conflict.

Echter, professor Elchardus die het Belgisch onderzoek leidde, benadrukte dat deze Jodenhaat niet wordt veroorzaakt door het Israëlisch-Palestijns conflict, de sociaal-economische achterstand of het opleidingsniveau, maar dat „het antisemitisme bij die moslimleerlingen theologisch is geïnspireerd. Er is een rechtstreeks verband tussen moslim zijn en antisemitische gevoelens koesteren”.

Een recent Duits onderzoek door onderzoeksbureau Wissenschaftszentrum Berlin für Sozialforschung (WZB) onder moslims in zes Europese landen bevestigde dit beeld: 45 procent van de moslims was het eens met de antisemitische stelling dat Joden categoriaal niet konden worden vertrouwd, en ook hier werd als hoofdoorzaak de religie aangewezen. Dat wil niet zeggen dat 40 procent van de moslims de Joden het liefst de gaskamer in zou sturen, maar dat wilden de meeste Duitsers in 1933 ook niet. De sharia zou dat overigens, het moet gezegd, ook niet toelaten.

Toch leidt de acceptatie van een bepaald vijandbeeld tot steeds grotere excessen. Een op de vijf geschiedenisdocenten in de vier grote steden heeft, zeventig jaarna Auschwitz, weleens de Holocaust niet of nauwelijks ter sprake kunnen brengen, omdat vooral islamitische leerlingen er moeite mee hebben. Met de gevechten tussen Hamas en Israël is het hek van de dam op de sociale media. Daar heeft Jodenhaat nu de vrije loop. Moslims die met voor- en achternaam, opleiding, werkgever en al oproepen tot het vergassen van Joden of Hitler verwijten zijn werk niet te hebben afgemaakt, zijn daar normaal geworden. Dat gebrek aan schaamte zegt veel over de mate van sociale acceptatie van dit soort gedrag. Daar waar dit soort gedachten en gedragingen gemeengoed zijn, volgen de intimidaties, bedreigingen en uiteindelijk fysiek geweld vanzelf.

Inmiddels, en dat is een tweede probleem, moet een hele generatie aan islamwetenschappers, cultureel antropologen, mensenrechtenorganisaties en politici door hun banden met moslims en de islamitische wereld weten hoe zeer het antisemitisme daar speelde en speelt. Maar zij hebben bewust hun mond gehouden of, nog erger, het probleem vergoelijkt. Natuurlijk, je wilt je politieke achterban niet van je vervreemden, je wilt die door een Golfstaat betaalde beurs voor je academisch onderzoek niet verliezen en als je politieke focus op het bestrijden van Israël of het kwaadaardige Westen ligt, dan is de islamitische wereld een wel heel gulle medestander.

Heel wat carrières zijn gebouwd op het negeren, verzwijgen en bedekken van de beerput die nu langzaam opengaat. Dat je daarbij je mond houdt uit opportunisme of angst is één ding. Maar dat je de mensen die wél de morele ruggengraat hebben om dit probleem aan te kaarten actief tegenwerkt, van racisme beschuldigt en daarmee zelfs in gevaar brengt, getuigt van een stuitend moreel failliet.

Hoe vaak zijn Bolkestein, Fortuyn, Jansen, Ellian, Hirsi Ali, Van Gogh of Wilders niet beticht van het aanzetten tot racisme? Als het gaat om Jodenhaat onder moslims hadden zij gewoon gelijk. En dan hebben we het nog niet eens gehad over de eveneens endemische homohaat, intolerantie voor andersdenkenden of afvalligen.

Natuurlijk hebben moslims in Europa ook te maken met racisme. Maar daar waar een moslim zonder enige angst door een Joodse wijk kan lopen, zal een verstandige jood met een keppeltje dat niet proberen in een islamitische wijk in Lyon, Antwerpen, Malmö of Berlijn. Terwijl er in heel Europa nergens moslims bij de moskee worden belaagd door opgeschoten joodse jongeren, moeten synagogebezoekers in Parijs er rekening mee houden dat ze door islamitische jonge mannen worden uitgescholden, in elkaar geslagen, neergestoken of beschoten. Geen enkele islamitische school moet beveiliging regelen omdat Joden dreigen de kinderen te vermoorden. Joodse scholen daarentegen zijn verworden tot zwaar beveiligde bunkers.

Dat is de realiteit. Je hebt geen Toulouse of Brussel nodig om te beseffen dat intimidatie, racisme en geweld van moslims tegen Joden een dagelijks fenomeen is dat niet voorkomt uit toeval.

David Suurland is cum laude gepromoveerd op een vergelijking tussen het nazisme, communisme en islamisme aan de Universiteit van Leiden. Hij werkt momenteel aan de handelsversie van zijn proefschrift.

Dit artikel is verschenen in het NRC Handelsblad van zaterdag 19 juli 2014 op pagina 2 & 3

UNRWA says it gave 20 missiles found in Gaza school to ‘local authorities’ that are under the ‘government of national consensus in Ramallah’

A “The rockets were passed on to the government authorities in Gaza, which is Hamas. In other words, UNRWA handed to Hamas rockets that could well be shot at Israel,” a senior Israeli official told The Times of Israel.

A different senior official said UNRWA, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, charged with overseeing humanitarian efforts in Gaza, has been suffering from “battered-wife syndrome” for years and currently “attempts to ingratiate itself with Hamas.”

A spokesperson for UNRWA said the organization gave the rockets to “local authorities,” which answer to the Hamas-backed unity government led by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. UNRWA pledged to fully investigate the incident once the fighting stops and keep all relevant parties informed, but refused to release any photos of the weapons.

“According to longstanding UN practice in UN humanitarian operations worldwide, incidents involving unexploded ordnance that could endanger beneficiaries and staff are referred to the local authorities,” UNRWA’s director of advocacy and strategic communications, Christopher Gunness, told The Times of Israel Sunday.

“Immediately after the discovery of the rockets, UNRWA proactively informed the relevant parties and successfully took all necessary measures for the removal of the objects in order to preserve the safety and security of the school. Local authorities fall under the government of national consensus in Ramallah. They pledged to pass a message to all parties not to violate UNRWA neutrality.”

A Western diplomat familiar with the incident said there is “absolutely no evidence” that UNRWA handed the rockets to Hamas. Rather, the diplomat suggested, the authorities who collected the rockets are under the direct authority of the Palestinian unity government, “which Hamas has left and which many in Hamas are openly hostile to. The key point is that the weapons were handed over to people who are not answerable to Hamas,” the diplomat said, referring to the fact that the unity government, not Hamas, is officially the ruling power in Gaza.

On Wednesday, UNRWA officials found some 20 missiles in a vacant school. A day later it released a statement strongly condemning “the group or groups responsible for placing the weapons in one of its installations. This is a flagrant violation of the inviolability of its premises under international law,” the statement read.

UNRWA immediately convened an inquiry to investigate the incident, Gunness said. “All existing evidence will be handed over by UNRWA to the investigation, which can commence as soon as hostilities in Gaza are over.”

Israel has requested the UN release photos of the rockets. Officials plan to disseminate these images to bolster its assertion that Hamas is hiding missiles in schools, diplomatic sources said Friday.

But UNRWA is currently refusing to disclose any photos, arguing that “any photographic material” is evidence needed for UNRWA’s evidence. “We will keep relevant players informed about the investigation,” Gunness said.

UNRWA has “strong, established procedures to maintain the neutrality of all its premises, including a strict no-weapons policy and routine inspections of its installations, to ensure they are only used for humanitarian purposes,” he added.

In Jerusalem, such assertions are rejected, even ridiculed. “Time and again, over the years, UNRWA is being abused by gunmen from different terrorist factions who are using UN facilities to stockpile weapons, to fire rockets from, to steal UNRWA humanitarian equipment and to cause damage and fire in UNRWA’s hangars,” a senior Foreign Ministry official told The Times of Israel.

“Against all evidence, UNRWA refuses to acknowledge reality and pathetically attempts to ingratiate itself with Hamas, pretending that nothing serious has happened,” the senior official said. “This is a classic case of beaten-wife syndrome, which we have been witnessing for years from UNRWA. The people of Gaza, and indeed taxpayers from countries who contributive to UNRWA’s budget — including Israel — deserve better.”

Israel plans to raise this issue with UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, who is expected to arrive in Israel on Tuesday.

 Vaktathi wrote:
While I can definitely see the problem, I'm not quite sure what the local UN staff were supposed to do. They're aid workers.

They don't have the means to deal with the rockets, they're not getting foreign military/ordnance disposal people in there, they're *certainly* not going to be able to get them over to the Israeli's, they don't want them to remain in their facility, they wouldn't have the means to keep Hamas from taking them if they wanted to take them back, it's hard to see that they really had any other choice.

 Soladrin wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
While I can definitely see the problem, I'm not quite sure what the local UN staff were supposed to do. They're aid workers.

They don't have the means to deal with the rockets, they're not getting foreign military/ordnance disposal people in there, they're *certainly* not going to be able to get them over to the Israeli's, they don't want them to remain in their facility, they wouldn't have the means to keep Hamas from taking them if they wanted to take them back, it's hard to see that they really had any other choice.

Fire them at the nearest hospital.

But anyway, I agree, if they hadn't handed them over they probably would've just endangered themselves.

 Vaktathi wrote:
While I can definitely see the problem, I'm not quite sure what the local UN staff were supposed to do. They're aid workers.

They don't have the means to deal with the rockets, they're not getting foreign military/ordnance disposal people in there, they're *certainly* not going to be able to get them over to the Israeli's, they don't want them to remain in their facility, they wouldn't have the means to keep Hamas from taking them if they wanted to take them back, it's hard to see that they really had any other choice.

sirlynchmob wrote:
and that article just highlights the warcrimes israel is committing.

sirlynchmob wrote:
No Iraq invaded Kuwait just like Israel invaded Palestine.

sirlynchmob wrote:
you seem to think that when you've been invaded you're somehow the aggressor and you should just lie down and accept your occupation.

sirlynchmob wrote:
Israel invaded Palestine and you think Palestine shouldn't have the right to defend themselves from an invading country. And because Israel invaded, Hamas started launching the rockets. As Israel is the occupying force all they have to do is end their occupation. The UN stepped in for Kuwait and the US launched hundreds of rockets at Iraq, I guess the US was just provoking a conflict and Iraq should have invaded again. Germany invaded and occupied France, it's a direct parallel to what is happening in Palestine.

sirlynchmob wrote:
Almost 80 percent of those killed as a result of the Israeli bombing of Gaza are civilians, the United Nations said in a report. They must really suck at warning the general population as 80% almost seems like they are being deliberately targeted.

 whembly wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
While I can definitely see the problem, I'm not quite sure what the local UN staff were supposed to do. They're aid workers.

They don't have the means to deal with the rockets, they're not getting foreign military/ordnance disposal people in there, they're *certainly* not going to be able to get them over to the Israeli's, they don't want them to remain in their facility, they wouldn't have the means to keep Hamas from taking them if they wanted to take them back, it's hard to see that they really had any other choice.

I would imagine, a neutral body looking to secure the safety of these people would work... such an international agency. One might suppose that any UNRWA workers who are on the ground in Gaza are familiar with Hamas and would realize that they were essentially fueling another round of the attacks which we’re all ostensibly seeking to shut down, wouldn’t they? Unless there's a subliminal approval in using these rockets against Israel.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
While I can definitely see the problem, I'm not quite sure what the local UN staff were supposed to do. They're aid workers.

They don't have the means to deal with the rockets, they're not getting foreign military/ordnance disposal people in there, they're *certainly* not going to be able to get them over to the Israeli's, they don't want them to remain in their facility, they wouldn't have the means to keep Hamas from taking them if they wanted to take them back, it's hard to see that they really had any other choice.

I would imagine, a neutral body looking to secure the safety of these people would work... such an international agency. One might suppose that any UNRWA workers who are on the ground in Gaza are familiar with Hamas and would realize that they were essentially fueling another round of the attacks which we’re all ostensibly seeking to shut down, wouldn’t they? Unless there's a subliminal approval in using these rockets against Israel.

again, you're talking about aid workers who do stuff like run schools, deliver mattresses, distribute food, and do vaccinations. They don't have ordnance disposal experts on hand nor the relevant equipment, nor are they going to be able to get any in in the current situation, and any time Hamas wanted those rockets back, they wouldn't be able to stop them. At least once they're out of there the Israeli's can target the rockets without blowing up a school.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
and that article just highlights the warcrimes israel is committing.

It is interesting that evidence of following international law is somehow proof of war crimes.

sirlynchmob wrote:
No Iraq invaded Kuwait just like Israel invaded Palestine.

Except that Kuwait didn't launch hundreds of rockets at Iraq, and want to claim all of Iraq land. Nor did they send in suicide bombers. Or any other countless actual differences between the two examples you are hopelessly trying to compare.

sirlynchmob wrote:
you seem to think that when you've been invaded you're somehow the aggressor and you should just lie down and accept your occupation.

That's a fantastic strawman that you are attempting to erect there.

sirlynchmob wrote:
Israel invaded Palestine and you think Palestine shouldn't have the right to defend themselves from an invading country. And because Israel invaded, Hamas started launching the rockets. As Israel is the occupying force all they have to do is end their occupation. The UN stepped in for Kuwait and the US launched hundreds of rockets at Iraq, I guess the US was just provoking a conflict and Iraq should have invaded again. Germany invaded and occupied France, it's a direct parallel to what is happening in Palestine.

Except I never said that

sirlynchmob wrote:
Almost 80 percent of those killed as a result of the Israeli bombing of Gaza are civilians, the United Nations said in a report. They must really suck at warning the general population as 80% almost seems like they are being deliberately targeted.

They are being deliberately targeted. If you ignore all the evidence that has been provided to date, and thus making any actual discussion almost impossible as you have been doing thus far.

I can see that you have your point of view, entrenched as it is, and no amount of evidence will persuade you otherwise. It has been interesting talking with you.

“We don’t need statements of regret from Israel,” Peter Bouckaert of Human Rights Watch said in a Twitter message. We need investigation and an end to illegal targeting.”

 whembly wrote:

I get it... doesn't make it any less face-palm worthy.

You'd think that the UNRWA would reach out to other neutral agencies to confiscate these weapons. If they want to protect the people they're helping, they shouldn't actively return those weapons back to the Hamas. Otherwise, they're just making excuses.