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sirlynchmob wrote: They bombed a hospital that is a war crime. I don't know why you can accept that. The hospital had no rockets, nor was it being used for any military purpose. As that is against the Geneva convention and it is a war crime. Saying hey were going to bomb your hospital because we want to, is not following international law. And that's just one of the articles they are in violation of.
Yesterday saw Israel come in for particular criticism after the al-Wafa hospital, which cares for patients suffering from brain and spine trauma, was damaged by the Israeli air offensive.
Asked if Israel “has the right to defend itself by bombing hospitals”, Dermer said: “Actually, if you turn your hospital into a command post & missile launching site you do. But Israel hasn't.
sirlynchmob wrote: the similarities between Kuwait and Palestine is that they were both invaded and occupied by a foreign power. I know you think this conflict only started a few days ago, but the big difference is Palestine has been occupied since 1967, where Kuwait was sent aid and others fired the rockets on Kuwaits behalf. Palestine is not trying to claim Israel, they are trying to regain their country. Kuwait was occupied and missiles got fired into Iraq, now if that had dragged on for 47 years, do you think they might still be firing rockets at the country that invaded them?
Congratulations. On ignoring the pertinent facts which distinguish each Kuwait from Gaza (namely launching hundreds of rockets at a neighbour) you have instead focused on the only common thread so that you may make a nonsensical comparison which does not withstand the barest scrutiny.
So you claim that Palestinians want their country back - what happens to Israel and her citizens?
sirlynchmob wrote: You've been stating Palestine started this by shooting rockets into israel, well what should an occupied country do? surrender? give up?
Nope. But launching hundreds of rockets at civilian population centers and not military targets is not the way to do it.
sirlynchmob wrote: Israel started the war when they invaded and occupied Palestine back in 1967. As an occupying force they have limits placed on them on what actions they can take against the palestines. And they are violating it, hence they are committing war crimes.
You mean the Six Day War when Arab countries attempted to wipe Israel from the map because they were the wrong religion?
sirlynchmob wrote: If Israel wants peace, they should end their occupation and pull out of the occupied territories. I'm ignoring nothing, you're ignoring the 47 years prior to this.
Because that worked out so well for them before....
sirlynchmob wrote: You probably watch 'Red Dawn' and think the wolverines are the bad guys. How dare they fight back, see they shot the troops of the invading army that occupied their home. See the wolverines started it, the invading army had no choice but to line up the townspeople and shoot them.
And I thought that some of your comments were beyond parody. This is one of the few things you may actually prove me wrong on
“We don’t need statements of regret from Israel,” Peter Bouckaert of Human Rights Watch said in a Twitter message. We need investigation and an end to illegal targeting.”
So we need an independent investigation on something that we've already decided is illegal...... I don't see a hint of bias, or presumption of guilt, in that statement whatsoever....
HRW has been accused of bias against the state of Israel[29] of issuing one-sided and hostile reports attacking Israel[30] and of having an anti-Israel agenda[26][31] by general circulation newspapers, the Israeli government and supporters of Israel. Political Science Professor and former consultant to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs Gerald M. Steinberg of Bar Ilan University, head of NGO Monitor, a pro-Israel NGO[32] accused HRW of having "a strong anti-Israel bias from the beginning".[33] He claimed their reports were based primarily on "Palestinian eyewitness testimony" — testimony that is "not accurate, objective or credible but serves the political goal of indicting Israel".[34] According to David Bernstein HRW is "maniacally anti-Israel".[35] Mark Regev (spokesman for Israeli PM Binyamin Netanyahu) has said that "We discovered during the Gaza operation and the Second Lebanon War that these organizations come in with a very strong agenda, and because they claim to have some kind of halo around them, they receive a status that they don't deserve," in reference to HRW's and Amnesty International’s allegations of human rights violations by Israeli forces during those conflicts.[36]
. . .
According to The Times, "most" of the Middle East department staff of Human Rights Watch "have activist backgrounds — it was typical that one newly hired researcher came to HRW from the extremist anti-Israel publication Electronic Intifada — unlikely to reassure anyone who thinks that human-rights organizations should be non-partisan."[3]
In November 2012, David Feith, writing in The Wall Street Journal, said that there has been some "bitter debate" within HRW as to whether Iran's call for annihilation of Israel is a violation of human rights. HRW Vice Chair Sid Sheinberg wrote that doing nothing while Ahmadinejad wants to "kill Jews and annihilate Israel...is a position unworthy of our great organization." But Executive Director Ken Roth says that "Tehran isn't inciting genocide and claims to the contrary are part of an effort to beat the war drums against Iran."[43]
. . .
Marc Garlasco, a senior investigator for HRW, has been criticized for being an avid collector of Nazi memorabilia. Emma Daly confirmed in March 2010 that Garlasco resigned from Human Rights Watch in February 2010, and offered no elaboration. “He has written a book, about Nazi-era medals. In one post he wrote: "That is so cool! The leather SS jacket makes my blood go cold it is so COOL!" [44][45][46] Commenting on allegations concerning Garlasco in the media, Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's policy director said on September 9, 2009 that Human Rights Watch's employment of "a man who trades and collects Nazi memorabilia" as its senior military expert is a "new low". HRW issued a rebuttal to the allegations which stated that the "accusation is demonstrably false and fits into a campaign to deflect attention from Human Rights Watch's rigorous and detailed reporting on violations of international human rights and humanitarian law by the Israeli government." noting that Garlasco, "has never held or expressed Nazi or anti-Semitic views."[47]
Helena Cobban, a fellow Middle East analyst of the Human Rights Watch Middle East advisory board, noted that Garlasco engaged with "people who clearly do seem to be Nazi sympathizers," something she called "extremely disturbing," [48]
. . .
In November 2010, Bernstein gave the Shirley and Leonard Goldstein Lecture on Human Rights at the University of Nebraska at Omaha.[65] During this lecture, he accused HRW of "fault[ing] Israel as the principal offender" in theIsrael-Palestine conflict and suggested that groups like HRW were responsible for polarization on university campuses.
In December 2010, Jennifer Rubin, writing in her Washington Post blog, described HRW as "an anti-Israel group masquerading as one devoted to human rights".[66]
In January 2012, New Europe quoted an NGO Monitor report which said that HRW gives "disproportionate attention" to 'Israel and the Occupied Territories' which received "more attention in 2011 than Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, or Iraq." The article also said that the HRW reports continued to show "bias on Israel," and that "all op-eds published on the Arab-Israeli conflict in major media focused on allegations against Israel."[4]
Orlando Radice, writing in the Jewish British newspaper, The JC, said, regarding an interview with HRW director Ken Roth, that "this was less of an interview than an exercise in denial, obfuscation and plain old censorship."[67]
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/21 05:10:13
sirlynchmob wrote: Israel started the war when they invaded and occupied Palestine back in 1967. As an occupying force they have limits placed on them on what actions they can take against the palestines. And they are violating it, hence they are committing war crimes.
You mean the Six Day War when Arab countries attempted to wipe Israel from the map because they were the wrong religion?
sirlynchmob wrote: If Israel wants peace, they should end their occupation and pull out of the occupied territories. I'm ignoring nothing, you're ignoring the 47 years prior to this.
Because that worked out so well for them before....
Yes the 6 day war when they decided since they were attacked, they might as well occupy those territories.
So what happened before the rockets being fired this time? you seem to think that was the start of it, but it wasn't.
and how can you claim it hasn't worked before when they've never stopped occupying those territories.
June 12 Three Israeli teens — Eyal Yifrach, Naftali Fraenkel, and Gilad Shaer — attempt hitchhike back to their homes. All three go missing.
June 14 As the sweep continues, it will eventually see the detention of nearly 300 Palestinians,
During the 18-day operation in the West Bank, according to a military statement, Israeli soldiers arrested 419 Palestinians — 335 of them affiliated with Hamas — searched 2,218 locations and confiscated about $350,000. They also killed six Palestinians who confronted them, the latest a wanted man who threw a grenade as they approached Tuesday morning in Jenin.
June 15 Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tells the press that the kidnapping was carried out by Hamas.
June 23 With the boys still missing, the search continues throughout the West Bank. Netanyahu repeats to NPR that the Israeli government has proof that Hamas carried out the kidnapping, while still not offering evidence of the direct connection to Hamas’ leadership.
As retribution, the Israeli Defense Forces will later demolish the homes of both suspects’ families, a practice it had let lapse since 2005.
There was no court case for the suspects, they were arrested and their families killed without anyone ever being convicted of a crime. They have a practice of targeting and killing innocent family members.
all in violation of art 33: No persons may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited. Pillage is prohibited. Reprisals against persons and their property are prohibited. .
3 kids go missing and the IDF start the collective penalties and intimidation, they pillage $350,000 and enact reprisals against known innocent people.
Then the missiles started to fire. I will state it again, they shouldn't have done it. But that still doesn't excuse the current actions Israel is taking, nor the slaughter of so many innocent people and the deliberate targeting of known innocent people.
As far as their Israel and her citizens, they continue to live in their country. If you mean the settlements in occupied territories then: The international community considers the settlements in occupied territory to be illegal,[10] and the United Nations has repeatedly upheld the view that Israel's construction of settlements constitutes a violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The International Court of Justice also says these settlements are illegal in a 2004.
So IMO they should either move back to Israel or be given the option to stay in their homes and become a legal resident of the country. but I would assume their diplomats could work that out and come to a solution they could agree on.
It's odd that you are defending Israel, still pretending they're the victims in all this and basically saying two wrongs make Israel right. Because they were mean to us 54 years ago, we should occupy and terrorize them for 54 years, and by no means give back what they've stolen. Then when Palestine gets tired of being attacked and terrorized, they fight back and Israel claims to be the victim in all this. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Israel had those kids abducted and killed just to have a reason to attack Palestine again.
But clearly What is going on now is a war crime and should be thoroughly investigated and those found guilty sentenced accordingly. And we can take the moral high ground that they good guys should have, and refrain from bombing their families before they're sentenced.
June 12 Three Israeli teens — Eyal Yifrach, Naftali Fraenkel, and Gilad Shaer — attempt hitchhike back to their homes. All three go missing.
June 14 As the sweep continues, it will eventually see the detention of nearly 300 Palestinians,
During the 18-day operation in the West Bank, according to a military statement, Israeli soldiers arrested 419 Palestinians — 335 of them affiliated with Hamas — searched 2,218 locations and confiscated about $350,000. They also killed six Palestinians who confronted them, the latest a wanted man who threw a grenade as they approached Tuesday morning in Jenin.
June 15 Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tells the press that the kidnapping was carried out by Hamas.
June 23 With the boys still missing, the search continues throughout the West Bank. Netanyahu repeats to NPR that the Israeli government has proof that Hamas carried out the kidnapping, while still not offering evidence of the direct connection to Hamas’ leadership.
As retribution, the Israeli Defense Forces will later demolish the homes of both suspects’ families, a practice it had let lapse since 2005.
There was no court case for the suspects, they were arrested
If you're a suspect then there typically isn't a court case at that stage of the proceedings. When you are formally charged and become the accused, then there is a court case
A senior employee of the US think tank Center for American Progress (CAP) appears to have admitted in an e-mail sent from his CAP account that a blogger for the policy organization used anti-Semitic language to attack supporters of the Jewish state.
CAP advises the Democratic Party on Middle East policy and is an important source of ideas for the Obama administration.
RELATED:
NGOs slam ‘anti-Semitic’ US think tank comments
Bloggers drag US think tank into scandal
The Jerusalem Post last week obtained the first CAP acknowledgment of Jew-hatred stemming from a group of Mideast bloggers affiliated with CAP’s ThinkProgress website.
In the e-mail that the Post obtained exclusively from the CAP account of Faiz Shakir, who serves as editor-in-chief of the ThinkProgress.org website and is a vice president at CAP, he wrote, “Yes, I agree ‘Israel Firster’ is terrible, anti-Semitic language. And that’s why that language no longer exists on Zaid’s personal twitter feed, because he also knows and understands the implications.”
Zaid Jilani wrote on his Twitter account, where he identifies himself as a “Reporter-Blogger for ThinkProgress,” that “...Obama is still beloved by Israel-firsters and getting lots of their $$.”
The e-mail recognizing the anti-Semitism of a CAP blogger was sent from FShakir@americanprogress.org in December.
US-Jewish and Israeli NGOs accused a faction of ThinkProgress bloggers that month of stoking modern anti-Semitism. The anti-Israel scandal saw two CAP writers, Jilani and Ali Gharib, issue apologies for asserting that American Jews and a non-Jewish Republican senator serve the interests of the Israeli government over the security of the United States.
Speaking with the Post from Washington on Thursday, Shakir declined to comment on the e-mail from his account.
He did not respond to a followup Post e-mail sent on Friday.
In a lengthy article on Friday on the Daily Beast news website, Ken Gude, the managing director of CAP’s National Security and International Policy Program, denied any anti-Semitism or anti-Israelism at CAP. He told the Daily Beast that the allegations were “wildly unfair” and “flatly untrue.”
The Post sent an e-mail to Gude on Friday citing the quote in question from the email that had been sent from Shakir’s account. He did not respond to the Post e-mail or to a follow-up telephone query.
Critics accuse CAP of failing to combat rising anti-Israel sentiment among a group of bloggers who write about the Middle East and have created an anti-Jewish state environment at the mainstream policy organization. The e-mail conceding anti-Semitism at ThinkProgress underscores an internal rift at the think tank.
CAP bloggers have attacked their critics. The ThinkProgress blogger Ben Armbruster wrote an article last month titled “The Secret, Coordinated Effort To Smear ThinkProgress As Anti-Semitic And Anti-Israel.”
He authored a second blog entry, “TAKE ACTION: Tell The Washington Post To Retract Jen Rubin’s Charge That ThinkProgress Is ‘Anti-Semitic.’” Prof. Gerald Steinberg, president of the Jerusalem-based NGO Monitor, told the Post last week, “Instead of playing the victim, CAP has an obligation to implement concrete guidelines demonstrating that this language is unacceptable and that it will not be used by CAP employees in the future.”
When asked about NGO Monitor’s criticism of CAP and the Shakir e-mail account statement, Andrea Purse, a CAP spokeswoman, declined to comment. She wrote the Post last week that the articles in the Post were not helping “to defeat anti-Semitism.
The attacks and their repetition here do a disservice to all of us who fight for a strong US-Israel relationship.”
In an e-mail to the Post last week, Matt Brooks, executive director of the Republican Jewish Coalition, wrote, “The prominence of CAP in the Obama administration has been recognized by news outlets like Time and Bloomberg News, both of which describe the think tank as the president’s ‘Ideas Factory.’ The fact that CAP has staffers who disseminate this kind of virulent, poisonous anti-Israel material points to a serious problem – that there is a strain of hostility toward Israel running through elements of the mainstream Democratic Party.”
Matt Duss, director for the Middle East at CAP, compared Israel’s security policies to the racist “segregated South” in the United States. Duss declined to respond to queries about this statement on the ThinkProgress website. The disclosure of the e-mail from Shakir’s account comes after a series of dire developments for CAP’s reputation, culminating in sharp criticism from the Anti-Defamation League, American Jewish Committee and the Simon Wiesenthal Center – all of which slammed CAP for promoting hatred of Jews and Israel.
Brooks said that “Liberals and Democrats who value their party’s reputation regarding national security and the US-Israel alliance have a lot of work to do. Unfortunately, it appears that elements who would irreparably damage that reputation have a foothold within an important mainstream Democratic institution.”
David A. Harris, president of the National Jewish Democratic Council, wrote to the Post that “The words of these individuals [the bloggers] are deeply disturbing, and they were right to apologize for their remarks. However those who have not apologized for their remarks include Rep. Allen West (R-FL), who invoked Joseph Goebbels to attack Democrats in December, and far too many others on the right who have dragged abusive Holocaust rhetoric into our political discourse in recent years.”
Harris said, “In truth, neither the Left nor the Right has a monopoly on rhetoric that American Jews rightly find disturbing – although through talk radio, presidential candidates and members of Congress, the Right seems to be trying to corner the market.”
Steinberg said “it is highly unfortunate when individuals and organizations play politics with anti-Semitic rhetoric.
“Pointing fingers and saying that others are more anti- Semitic is a sad attempt to distract from one’s own errors. This rhetoric adds to the destructive impact, and does nothing to remove this language from the public discourse.”
sirlynchmob wrote: and their families killed without anyone ever being convicted of a crime. They have a practice of targeting and killing innocent family members.
So the family members of the suspects were all killed simply for being related to the suspects? The link you provided said nothing of the sort, and I'd be curious as to where you got this
sirlynchmob wrote: The International Court of Justice also says these settlements are illegal in a 2004.
In an non-binding advisory opinion that has no legal force, nor adjudicated on the matter
sirlynchmob wrote: And we can take the moral high ground that they good guys should have, and refrain from bombing their families before they're sentenced.
Except the families of the accused are not being targeted, unless those family members are also Hamas members, or are engaged in hostility against Israel.
Maybe Hamas could take the moral high ground too and not target civilians
sirlynchmob wrote: Israel started the war when they invaded and occupied Palestine back in 1967. As an occupying force they have limits placed on them on what actions they can take against the palestines. And they are violating it, hence they are committing war crimes.
You mean the Six Day War when Arab countries attempted to wipe Israel from the map because they were the wrong religion?
sirlynchmob wrote: If Israel wants peace, they should end their occupation and pull out of the occupied territories. I'm ignoring nothing, you're ignoring the 47 years prior to this.
Because that worked out so well for them before....
Yes the 6 day war when they decided since they were attacked, they might as well occupy those territories.
It's pretty normal to take territory from your enemies. Personally I think they should have kept all the turf they took from the Egyptians too. If you're going to start a war be prepared to lose it. That's ACTUALLY how Israel came to be. The state of Israel was not created, it was won in open warfare. The Jewish population was settled in the Mandate for Palestine, with the Brits and Palestinians in control, then the Palestinians decided to go Jew hunting despite the Jews being settled in the worst places in the hellish spits of desert that made up the mandate, and the Haganah decided that one genocide was enough this century. The Haganah became the IDF as the British Territory became Israel, and in over six decades of open warfare since every single nation in the Middle East has tried to destroy the nation and people of Israel by force of arms. May they continue to stand strong.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
sirlynchmob wrote: and how can you claim it hasn't worked before when they've never stopped occupying those territories.
When Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza and received rocket fire from the area the same day that is a good indication that Israel should be wary
sirlynchmob wrote: and their families killed without anyone ever being convicted of a crime. They have a practice of targeting and killing innocent family members.
So the family members of the suspects were all killed simply for being related to the suspects? The link you provided said nothing of the sort, and I'd be curious as to where you got this
sirlynchmob wrote: The International Court of Justice also says these settlements are illegal in a 2004.
In an non-binding advisory opinion that has no legal force, nor adjudicated on the matter
sirlynchmob wrote: And we can take the moral high ground that they good guys should have, and refrain from bombing their families before they're sentenced.
Except the families of the accused are not being targeted, unless those family members are also Hamas members, or are engaged in hostility against Israel.
Maybe Hamas could take the moral high ground too and not target civilians
They might have moved out of Gaza, but they did not relinquish their control nor claim of it. They still Occupy it.
I'm glad you know what a suspect is, and isn't it odd that those two suspects had their houses bombed?
Oh I see now, all the dead women and children are clearly Hamas members engaged in hostilities. You're condoning that suspects in kidnapping cases should have their homes, wives and children bombed? Shouldn't Israel take the high ground as the occupiers, You're implying they have it, but clearly they don't. They should the Geneva convention (that they signed) and not target civilians? But clearly your blind to the actions of what Israel is doing you can't even admit what they are doing.
Palestine and hamas do have the moral high ground here:
http://www.mintpressnews.com/what-the-medias-getting-wrong-about-israel-and-palestine-and-why-it-matters/193607/ From 2000 to 2007, about 1,000 Israelis have been killed in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and nearly 6,000 Palestinians have been killed. Since the recent assault on Gaza under Operation Protective Edge, over 230 Palestinians have been killed, including nearly 40 children and 20 women, plus over 500 wounded including and over 80 houses destroyed — those numbers continue to rise. Hamas’ rockets firing into Israel have killed zero Israeli civilians since the cross fire began last week.
As of monday: That raised the overall Israeli death toll to 27, including two civilians. compared to: At least 508 Palestinians have been killed since the start of Israel's "Operation Protective Edge" on July 8, of which the UN says the majority were civilians.
2000 rockets fired, killing 2 civilians (one was bring food to a soldier) Hamas does have the moral high ground here, compared to: in all, about 500 Palestinians, almost 100 of them children, have been killed since fighting began on July 8, according to Reuters. At least Hamas is keeping the civilian death count down.
so who is targeting civilians here? bombing hospitals, beaches, and the homes of suspects that have been arrested is deliberately targeting civilians and a war crime. Everything Israel has done since the kidnapping of the 3 teens has been against the Geneva convention and therefore war crimes.
You guys are still actually talking to Sirlynchmob? What the heck, I will too:
@Sirlynchmob
If the Canadian Government lauched rockets at the US what do you think would happen? Regardless of actual casualties taken by the US from said rockets.
What if Mexico did it?
Israel has committed, at this time, no war crimes. Wanna know why? Because of irrational people like you who would probably blame and unarmed israeli for being shot in the face by a palestinian in Israel. They have to tip-toe far more than someone like the US or Russia. They don't have the flex to shrug it off.
Don't poke the bear unless you're ready for the response.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/21 19:57:37
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CptJake wrote: How does a higher death toll = moral high ground?
That makes zero sense.
It's more because they are being occupied by a foreign power and are fighting for their freedom. Fighting for your freedom and your country is usually the moral thing to do.
Even the US says Surrender is always dishonorable and never allowed. (see code of conduct)
If Israel (the aggressors) want peace all they have to do is give up their occupation of all territories. That would be the Moral thing for them to do. Everything they've done so far is directly against the Geneva convention which they signed and should therefore honor. so Israel is dishonorable and immoral based on their current actions.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hulksmash wrote: You guys are still actually talking to Sirlynchmob? What the heck, I will too:
@Sirlynchmob
If the Canadian Government lauched rockets at the US what do you think would happen? Regardless of actual casualties taken by the US from said rockets.
What if Mexico did it?
Israel has committed, at this time, no war crimes. Wanna know why? Because of irrational people like you who would probably blame and unarmed israeli for being shot in the face by a palestinian in Israel. They have to tip-toe far more than someone like the US or Russia. They don't have the flex to shrug it off.
Don't poke the bear unless you're ready for the response.
Now there's a illogical comparison, is Canada currently occupied by the US? is Mexico?
Have you read the Genna convention and the articles I posted? I doubt it. If you did you would see why they are committing war crimes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/21 20:06:55
CptJake wrote: How does a higher death toll = moral high ground?
That makes zero sense.
It's more because they are being occupied by a foreign power and are fighting for their freedom. Fighting for your freedom and your country is usually the moral thing to do.
Even the US says Surrender is always dishonorable and never allowed. (see code of conduct)
If Israel (the aggressors) want peace all they have to do is give up their occupation of all territories. That would be the Moral thing for them to do. Everything they've done so far is directly against the Geneva convention which they signed and should therefore honor. so Israel is dishonorable and immoral based on their current actions.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hulksmash wrote: You guys are still actually talking to Sirlynchmob? What the heck, I will too:
@Sirlynchmob
If the Canadian Government lauched rockets at the US what do you think would happen? Regardless of actual casualties taken by the US from said rockets.
What if Mexico did it?
Israel has committed, at this time, no war crimes. Wanna know why? Because of irrational people like you who would probably blame and unarmed israeli for being shot in the face by a palestinian in Israel. They have to tip-toe far more than someone like the US or Russia. They don't have the flex to shrug it off.
Don't poke the bear unless you're ready for the response.
Now there's a illogical comparison, is Canada currently occupied by the US? is Mexico?
Have you read the Genna convention and the articles I posted? I doubt it. If you did you would see why they are committing war crimes.
Uhuh, fighting a country that has openly stated that your extermination is their goal looks like a moral high to me.
Uhuh, fighting a country that has openly stated that your extermination is their goal looks like a moral high to me.
If Israel occupied your home, what would you say about them?
I'd be pissed off, I wouldn't threaten an entire country, much less a race with genocide. If that's how everyone thought there wouldn't be any Germans left either. Or insert any country/race.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/21 20:24:40
Uhuh, fighting a country that has openly stated that your extermination is their goal looks like a moral high to me.
If Israel occupied your home, what would you say about them?
I'd be pissed off, I wouldn't threaten an entire country, much less a race with genocide. If that's how everyone thought there wouldn't be any Germans left either. Or insert any country/race.
I know it's wikki, but this is what is claimed for their goal:
In March 2006, Hamas released its official legislative program. The document clearly signaled that Hamas could refer the issue of recognizing Israel to a national referendum. Under the heading "Recognition of Israel," it stated simply (AFP, 3/11/06): "The question of recognizing Israel is not the jurisdiction of one faction, nor the government, but a decision for the Palestinian people." This was a major shift away from their 1988 charter.[66] A few months later, via Maryland's Jerome Segal, the group sent a letter to U.S. President George Bush stating they "don't mind having a Palestinian state in the 1967 borders", and asked for direct negotiations: "Segal emphasized that a state within the 1967 borders and a truce for many years could be considered Hamas' de facto recognition of Israel."[67]
In an April 2008 meeting between Hamas leader Khaled Meshal and former U.S. President Jimmy Carter, an understanding was reached in which Hamas agreed it would respect the creation of a Palestinian state in the territory seized by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War, provided this were ratified by the Palestinian people in a referendum. Hamas later publicly offered a long-term truce with Israel if Israel agreed to return to its 1967 borders and grant the "right of return" to all Palestinian refugees.[68] In November 2008, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh re-stated that Hamas was willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, and offered Israel a long-term truce "if Israel recognized the Palestinians' national rights".[69] In 2009, in a letter to UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, Haniyeh repeated his group's support for a two-state settlement based on 1967 borders: "We would never thwart efforts to create an independent Palestinian state with borders [from] June 4, 1967, with Jerusalem as its capital."[70] On December 1, 2010, Ismail Haniyeh again repeated, "We accept a Palestinian state on the borders of 1967, with Jerusalem as its capital, the release of Palestinian prisoners, and the resolution of the issue of refugees," and "Hamas will respect the results [of a referendum] regardless of whether it differs with its ideology and principles."[71]
In February 2012, according to the Palestinian authority, Hamas forswore the use of violence. Evidence for this was provided by an eruption of violence from Islamic Jihad in March 2012 after an Israeli assassination of a Jihad leader, during which Hamas refrained from attacking Israel.[72] "Israel—despite its mantra that because Hamas is sovereign in Gaza it is responsible for what goes on there—almost seems to understand," wrote Israeli journalists Avi Issacharoff and Amos Harel, "and has not bombed Hamas offices or installations".[73]
Now where is the mention of this genocide? People say dumb stuff when they're pissed, after 9/11 in the US people there were calling to just nuke the entire middle east. I'm sure after 50 years you might also start thinking the only way to be free is by destroying the other country. But we can see from the past Hamas is willing to accept a 2 state solution, now all Israel has to do is accept it and stop occupying Palestine.
Uhuh, fighting a country that has openly stated that your extermination is their goal looks like a moral high to me.
If Israel occupied your home, what would you say about them?
The Isreali isn't hasn't occupied Gaza since 2005.
Do try and learn about what you're talking about. It is still, and since 1967 an occupied territory
Immediately after Israel withdrew in 2005, Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas stated, "the legal status of the areas slated for evacuation has not changed."[45] Human Rights Watch also contested that this ended the occupation.[48][49] The United Nations, Human Rights Watch and many other international bodies and NGOs continues to consider Israel to be the occupying power of the Gaza Strip as Israel controls Gaza Strip's airspace, territorial waters and controls the movement of people or goods in or out of Gaza by air or sea.[13][14][15]
The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs maintains an office on “Occupied Palestinian Territory,” which concerns itself with the Gaza Strip.[50] In his statement on the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict Richard Falk, United Nations Special Rapporteur on "the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories" wrote that international humanitarian law applied to Israel "in regard to the obligations of an Occupying Power and in the requirements of the laws of war."[51] In a 2009 interview on Democracy Now Christopher Gunness, spokesperson for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) contends that Israel is an occupying power. However, Meagan Buren, Senior Adviser to the Israel Project, a pro-Israel media group contests that characterization.[52]
In 2007, after Hamas defeated Fatah in the Battle of Gaza (2007) and took control over the Gaza Strip, Israel imposed a blockade on Gaza. Palestinian rocket attacks and Israeli raids, such as Operation Hot Winter continued into 2008. A six month ceasefire was agreed in June 2008, but it was broken several times by both Israel and Hamas. As it reached its expiry, Hamas announced that they were unwilling to renew the ceasefire without improving the terms.[53] At the end of December 2008 Israeli forces began Operation Cast Lead, launching the Gaza War that left an estimated 1,166–1,417 Palestinians and 13 Israelis dead.[54][55][56]
In January 2012, the spokesperson for the UN Secretary General stated that under resolutions of the Security Council and the General Assembly, the UN still regards Gaza to be part of the Occupied Palestinian Territory.
So Hamas swore off violence in 2012 according to your quote, sirlynchmob.
I doubt the veracity of Hamas, or your sources.
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
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Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
Do try and learn about what you're talking about. It is still, and since 1967 an occupied territory
Do try and understand that if Israel didn't control those borders... the armed escalation would be worse.
so let's hear you admit it, Gaza is occupied territory. You keep forgiving and turning a blind eye towards everything Israel does, if you want to continue this discussion, start by admitting Israel is occupying Palestine since 1967.
Do try and learn about what you're talking about. It is still, and since 1967 an occupied territory
Do try and understand that if Israel didn't control those borders... the armed escalation would be worse.
so let's hear you admit it, Gaza is occupied territory. You keep forgiving and turning a blind eye towards everything Israel does, if you want to continue this discussion, start by admitting Israel is occupying Palestine since 1967.
Do you honestly believe Hamas would stop the offensive even if this wasn't the case?
Hhmmm. Out of those 508 civilian killed. How many were not willing participants in a human shield.
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Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Do try and learn about what you're talking about. It is still, and since 1967 an occupied territory
Do try and understand that if Israel didn't control those borders... the armed escalation would be worse.
so let's hear you admit it, Gaza is occupied territory. You keep forgiving and turning a blind eye towards everything Israel does, if you want to continue this discussion, start by admitting Israel is occupying Palestine since 1967?
so let's hear you admit it, Hamas are terrorists. You keep forgiving and turning a blind eye towards everything Hamas does, if you want to continue this discussion, start by admitting Hamas has been the greatest obstacle to peace in the Holy Land since 1967?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/21 23:06:38
Jihadin wrote: Hhmmm. Out of those 508 civilian killed. How many were not willing participants in a human shield.
There really is no way of checking that. Not that it would change the death count. Though it would make them look more silly I guess.
Figure I throw that out being I am getting the impression that some individuals here think, now over 600, are caught in the cross fire and/or target specific
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Do try and learn about what you're talking about. It is still, and since 1967 an occupied territory
Do try and understand that if Israel didn't control those borders... the armed escalation would be worse.
so let's hear you admit it, Gaza is occupied territory. You keep forgiving and turning a blind eye towards everything Israel does, if you want to continue this discussion, start by admitting Israel is occupying Palestine since 1967.
Do try and learn about what you're talking about. It is still, and since 1967 an occupied territory
Do try and understand that if Israel didn't control those borders... the armed escalation would be worse.
so let's hear you admit it, Gaza is occupied territory. You keep forgiving and turning a blind eye towards everything Israel does, if you want to continue this discussion, start by admitting Israel is occupying Palestine since 1967.
First, describe to me what is "Palestine"?
Oh now that's ignorance at it's finest. you criticize Palestine for not recognizing Israel and thus deserve the violence against them. Then turn around and start the well palestine doesn't exist argument. so let's hear how they are an invented people and you americans aren't. Go read a book.
Every country sits on one portion or another of "occupied terrirtory
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Do try and learn about what you're talking about. It is still, and since 1967 an occupied territory
Do try and understand that if Israel didn't control those borders... the armed escalation would be worse.
so let's hear you admit it, Gaza is occupied territory. You keep forgiving and turning a blind eye towards everything Israel does, if you want to continue this discussion, start by admitting Israel is occupying Palestine since 1967.
First, describe to me what is "Palestine"?
Oh now that's ignorance at it's finest. you criticize Palestine for not recognizing Israel and thus deserve the violence against them. Then turn around and start the well palestine doesn't exist argument. so let's hear how they are an invented people and you americans aren't. Go read a book.
No... I'm trying to pin down which active groups you're defending.
The Gazian?
The West Banks?
All of them?
So, get off the high horse boyo and try to have a conversation here...
No... I'm trying to pin down which active groups you're defending.
The Gazian?
The West Banks?
All of them?
So, get off the high horse boyo and try to have a conversation here...
Until you can admit the most basic undisputed facts, how can you pretend you're trying to have a conversation? Why can't you acknowledge Israel has occupied territories in Palestine, that consist of the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip? This is a forum, if you have a point make it.
No... I'm trying to pin down which active groups you're defending.
The Gazian?
The West Banks?
All of them?
So, get off the high horse boyo and try to have a conversation here...
Until you can admit the most basic undisputed facts, how can you pretend you're trying to have a conversation? Why can't you acknowledge Israel has occupied territories in Palestine, that consist of the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip? This is a forum, if you have a point make it.
I'm disputing the whole idea that it's all Israel's fault.
Israel kicked ass and took names in 1967. So, from that point forward, imo, they dictate the terms of those territories. Ya know... that's how victors in wars work.
But, go ahead and keep screaming that the IDF are comitting henious war crimes. I'm sure The Hague would be interested...
I mean... just look at this:
IDF found rockets next to Gazian schools...
IDF built a fething field hospital at the Gaza border working with Red Crescent to treat wounded Palestinians from Gaza.
Those fething monsters...right?!?
Oh... those freaking tunnels the Hamas built/building.
Why in the feth are they spending that much money on fething tunnels and Rockets?
