Shieldwolf Miniatures (Official News thread) --- Black Friday sales throughout the entire range!

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**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

and a target

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the cavalry upgrade has unlocked

Note this is (I think) an alternate short barrel for the big gun not a complete extra artillery piece

and a tank add on is now available for those that want more firepower

**Azazelx**

Is there a larger-scale pic anywhere of the updated "all you get" lists shown here?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shieldwolf/imperium-immortalis/posts/2839028

**insaniak**

GreenScorpion wrote:

They have referred on their facebook that resin is the start but plastic would be a stretch based on actual participation, although how much of a realistic stretch that is, is what remains to be seen.

Not at all realistic. As discussed earlier in the thread, these minis are not sculpted in a way that would be suitable for plastic. They would all need to be resculpted.

**GreenScorpion**

insaniak wrote:
GreenScorpion wrote:

They have referred on their facebook that resin is the start but plastic would be a stretch based on actual participation, although how much of a realistic stretch that is, is what remains to be seen.

Not at all realistic. As discussed earlier in the thread, these minis are not sculpted in a way that would be suitable for plastic. They would all need to be resculpted.

My guess would be that if their plan went well they would have plastic sculpts at the end as a stretch, not necessarily the same sculpts.
Either way it seems like it won't get far enough for that, their last kickstarter with plastic kits started at like 30k $ and this one is only now getting there.

On an unrelated note their transport seems like a kitbash of their pre-existent vehicles with some chimera parts, like the guns in the back and the bolter in the front.
While keeping the same hull might be useful for production, I was expecting a bit more inspiration than just fit the chimera options into their vehicles.
It would be more interesting to have something that is more unique (compared to the chimeras, not necessarily compared to their other vehicles), but still possible to use as a proxy for a chimera.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Azazelx wrote:
Is there a larger-scale pic anywhere of the updated "all you get" lists shown here?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shieldwolf/imperium-immortalis/posts/2839028

this is a bit out of date but shows most of it (annoyingly as the file got larger KS stopped letting you zoom) and you should be able to tell whats left on the current image from the stuff I've posted (the tank Kommander with a sabre at the top of the page onwards)

https://i.imgur.com/aLHbQSw.jpg

Spoiler:

**warhead01**

I decided I would go with two started armies B & C. Want to add to the heavy weapons to make units of 3 and hope to add some of the large artillery with crews. There's a lot of stuff in those bundles I don't have any interest in, don't want doubles of a few of the mini's. I had said add Ogryn but realized two starter armies will give me 12 of them. That's a lot. Wonder if I can trade 6 of them back for the heavy weapons.

**BrookM**

Is there a breakdown of an individual model anywhere? Are these single piece casts, or what? Don't like the head designs on these, so if they come with heads not attached, that would be great.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

warhead01 wrote:
I decided I would go with two started armies B & C. Want to add to the heavy weapons to make units of 3 and hope to add some of the large artillery with crews. There's a lot of stuff in those bundles I don't have any interest in, don't want doubles of a few of the mini's. I had said add Ogryn but realized two starter armies will give me 12 of them. That's a lot. Wonder if I can trade 6 of them back for the heavy weapons.

they have allowed trades (privately ageed) in their past KS but won't officially say yes in public as it will open the floodgates to everybody wanting to shuffle stuff about and make fulfilment really complicated

so if it is absolutely essential for them to allow trades for you to pledge you probably shouldn't,
but if you'd be ok with the pledge as is (and delighted if a trade was allowed) pledge and then ask them privately during the PM and it might well be possible

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrookM wrote:
Is there a breakdown of an individual model anywhere? Are these single piece casts, or what? Don't like the head designs on these, so if they come with heads not attached, that would be great.

they've not said, i'll ask and report back Edit: they've seen the question and are going to let us know (with the next update I guess?)

**warhead01**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
warhead01 wrote:
I decided I would go with two started armies B & C. Want to add to the heavy weapons to make units of 3 and hope to add some of the large artillery with crews. There's a lot of stuff in those bundles I don't have any interest in, don't want doubles of a few of the mini's. I had said add Ogryn but realized two starter armies will give me 12 of them. That's a lot. Wonder if I can trade 6 of them back for the heavy weapons.

they have allowed trades in their past KS but won't officially say yes in public as it will open the floodgates to everybody wanting to shuffle stuff about and make fulfilment really complicated

so if it is absolutely essential for them to allow trades for you to pledge you probably shouldn't,
but if you'd be ok with the pledge as is (and delighted if a trade was allowed) pledge and then ask them privately during the PM and it might well be possible

Super cool if they do. I had another good look at what the Starter armies and taking your advice about keeping my backing level. Looks like I wont have to spend all that much more to get the few extra things I want after all.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

BrookM parts breakdown from shieldwolf

**Azazelx**

Many thanks Orlando for the pics!

As for the parts breakdown... Oh god. That's a lot of assembly and cleanup. It's like the worst of both worlds between resin and plastic. Piles of small, thin, multipart single pose infantry that's also NOT multipose....

**GreenScorpion**

Gluing individual hands to arms is always tricky, but I think the rifles is the worst part on those images (although it would make sense if they provided different weapons for a squad).
I still remember how painful it was to glue the militarum tempestus because of the 3 parts arms (especially due to the strange elbow connection).
Given how fragile resin typically is, I am guessing some of those hands will prove problematic :|

The bodies are roughly as I was expecting from their previous kickstarters pictures.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

a bit more assembly, but much easier clean up for resin as you'll be able to get a knife/scraper/sandpaper at the mould lines fairly easily

if they'd gone for single piece casts you'd end up with bits you just cant clean up easily and trying to force it if your trying to clean stuff up quick is far more likely to cause breakage

so I prefer this (plus it means mixing and matching bits with other ranges)

**GreenScorpion**

If you have a ranged weapon with hands or want to replace the rifles with melee weapons for example (some companies provide them with hands) it is great.
For the rifles at least I would prefer it to be attached to one of the arms, as I have always had difficulty with aligning more than 2 parts with a torso at once.
For clean up it should be fine as it is and for the other hands since they are only attached to the arm it is actually fine, although my fat fingers would still likely get glued to it

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

New targets

**Azazelx**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
a bit more assembly, but much easier clean up for resin as you'll be able to get a knife/scraper/sandpaper at the mould lines fairly easily
if they'd gone for single piece casts you'd end up with bits you just cant clean up easily and trying to force it if your trying to clean stuff up quick is far more likely to cause breakage
so I prefer this (plus it means mixing and matching bits with other ranges)

GreenScorpion wrote:
If you have a ranged weapon with hands or want to replace the rifles with melee weapons for example (some companies provide them with hands) it is great.
For the rifles at least I would prefer it to be attached to one of the arms, as I have always had difficulty with aligning more than 2 parts with a torso at once.
For clean up it should be fine as it is and for the other hands since they are only attached to the arm it is actually fine, although my fat fingers would still likely get glued to it

I can do it. I just don't care for the experience. Especially for squads of infantry. I also feel that two seperate arms for some of those poses is overkill. I also concur that the weapons being entirely seperate isn't something I prefer.
Sorry to seem so negative, I was in the process of eyeing the project off with a ....maybe? in these final hours, despite the AU$ being in the crapper, but seeing the break-apart images of the infantry was probably a good thing to be quitye honest. I wonder how many parts the horses and their legs will be in?

**RiTides**

Hmmm, those parts breakdowns do look like they were made with plastic production in mind on the troopers. If they're in resin, the arms could easily be connected to the bodies.

One thing I learned a long time ago is that Shieldwolf, for better or worse, doesn't really change course once they've embarked on something. So, while it would be vastly less costly for them to pay the sculptor to modify those sculpts, rather than incur the production costs (not to mention fulfillment / logistics hurdles) associated with casting each infantry model in 6 separate pieces in resin... I am not sure they'll be able to adjust at this point.

Definitely a drawback, as one of the main advantages of resin is having lots of unique sculpts, but this inherently means you don't need them to be as multipart (the variety is achieved by having different sculpts, not with swappable / interchangeable parts).

-----

In a perfect world, I think the ideal breakdown of parts for basic infantry would be: Body, Head, and only some Weapons (only when needed for casting purposes)

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

up to date giant chart

https://i.imgur.com/WzWsTLF.jpg

Spoiler:

**Original Timmy**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
up to date giant chart

https://i.imgur.com/WzWsTLF.jpg

Spoiler:

The Cav have been unlocked and this is the latest pic of the pledges

https://i.imgur.com/CAYzTD9.jpg

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

and new targets

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Oh, 6 hours or so to go to get them

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and it sounds as if they'll try and optimise these for resin production

These are images designed for hard plastic (HIPS) production in case the project blew up.

For resin production we'll try to diminuish (if possible) a part or two from the whole to facilitate assembly from your part :-)

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Well we unlocked Crate B with it's artillery shells right at the end to give

Spoiler:

https://i.imgur.com/BwQpLpg.jpg

Behind the scenes
My name is Dott. Angelos Margaritis, founder and owner of Shieldwolf Miniatures. Here is an inside look if you're interested. We took a poll some months ago in order to know what army interested you the most. The Imperium Immortalis came first with a clear distance from the 2nd (with 3rd and 4th pretty close behind), gathering a total number of 612 voters. In order to pitch the project off with a hard plastic kit for the Infantry, and with the new sculpts we are using it meant that every single one of these 612 voters should have pledged a minimum of $82 to make this become a reality. According to our research, we should have expected less than a fourth(!) of them to actually pledge at least that number. Despite our wanting to be the first ever to have created a WW1 science fiction hard plastic kit (just like we have been the first to have created a hard plastic kit for Shieldmaidens, for female fantasy paladins and for science fiction female paladins, not to mention the most recent Forest Goblins hard plastic kit which is also unique on its kind) it wasn't happening. Why you may ask?

Well, numbers didn't add up this time; the poll showed us that a hard plastic kit for WW1 science fiction soldiers wouldn't be supported. Projections showed that funding a hard plastic kit and including some additional resin miniatures (which we cast in house and therefore can lower production costs) would still require a minimum funding target between 55,000-85,000 (depending on the number of resin miniatures offered). Our estimates showed that starting with "resin only" we would be aiming at anything between 15,000 and 35,000.

So, even if we started off with resin only, we would have needed to highly exceed our expectations to trip the 50K target (yes, I was willing to again fund the difference). While at the very end we did manage to overcome the 35K top which was our largest estimate for resin only miniatures of a single army, you will agree with me the target was still pretty far away. There isn't a market for it? No, numbers speak for themselves. My hope is that there will be a market for them one day, it's just... not yet.

What now?
We are going to take a few days off, then on Monday head off to work! Kickstarter will start processing your pledges and we'll see what percentage is not collected (unfortunately anything between 2 and 8% doesn't get collected, we usually experience an average of 4-4,5% loss from past projects). I will personally be working on the Pledge Manager (we are still not happy with how we have been creating it in the past) and let you know with an update when to expect it. Don't rush nor panic if you miss an update, there will be a second as a reminder to let you know! On top of that, we usually leave the pledge manager open for more than a month; that said, the sooner you submit it, the better for everyone involved.

On behalf of High Command, the Shieldwolf Team and myself

A VERY BIG "THANK YOU". Thank you Kommandants!

Always interesting to see costings of plastic and $55-80,000 was what this would have needed (I bet that didn't include the big artillery either)

Also interesting to see how many backed compared to how many said they wanted this army (612) compared to how many actually backed (262),

and several of the backers had clearly had never come across the company so wouldn't have voted in the poll, but that said around 1/3 of the people who asked for something actually buying it, I'm pleasantly surprised, i'd have suspected far fewer would actually follow through with it

**Forlorn**

I went in for the $100 reward as it seemed like the sweet spot. I was hesitant (my last KS was for AVP the Hunt Begins) but I feel like these guys are reliable and deliver. We certainly get a lot for $100.

**lord_blackfang**

It might have been a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, there, to offer a much less appealing product and then say "see, the backing wasn't there for hard plastic".

Considering all the random obscure crap other companies think is financially feasible to throw out in HIPS these days, maybe Shieldwolf needs to shop around a bit harder for injection molding services.

**Mr Morden**

Forlorn wrote:
I went in for the $100 reward as it seemed like the sweet spot. I was hesitant (my last KS was for AVP the Hunt Begins) but I feel like these guys are reliable and deliver. We certainly get a lot for $100.

They did deliver well for the last one I did with them

**lord_blackfang**

I have 150 forest goblins, great stuff.

**GreenScorpion**

lord_blackfang wrote:
It might have been a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, there, to offer a much less appealing product and then say "see, the backing wasn't there for hard plastic".

Considering all the random obscure crap other companies think is financially feasible to throw out in HIPS these days, maybe Shieldwolf needs to shop around a bit harder for injection molding services.

Shieldwolf seems to use a company in the UK for producing the HIPS kits (the same that does historical miniatures like Perry Miniatures plastics), while the majority of newer companies does it with Chinese manufacturers, I guess the money is way different there.
Still if you check Wargames Atlantic page on services for custom HIPS kits, they say they can do it with their factories in China, but it would cost you at least 20k$ for an infantry squad like the ones they have on their store.
Using those 20k as reference and supposing the UK company charges more, it is not difficult to think about 50k to 80k costs for 3 or 4 kits of infantry/cavalry.

**DaveC**

The Forest Goblins kit was done by Renedra in the UK.

That kit was made on a co-funded basis, backers put up half the money $25,000 and Shieldwolf the other half so that gives an idea of costs. The Forest Goblins have 2 sprues they look similar but there are differences. Shieldwolf ran into issues getting the Warlord made so they incorporated the parts into the 2nd sprue at an additional cost of $6,000

It’s a very nice kit I got 3 boxes and will probably pick up 1 or 2 more later but my Forest GOBLin project isn’t a priority right now. You do end up short on quivers and the archer arm poses are a compromise but sprue space restricted the available parts. If you have enough boxes you can compensate.

**Azazelx**

I wonder how well the goblins are doing at retail? Hopefully pretty decently.

I'd have thought that modular plastic Not-DKOK would have had enough viability to do well at retail as a co-funded kit, especially since the IG/AM is well-established with many different looks, while the SW Sisters don't stack up quite as well against the actual Sororitas who were teased and then released close enough to be a spanner in the works there.

IG/AM on the other hand would be more likely (I'd guess) to see redone Cadian or Catachans (especially as "Cadian" style armour was simply presented as a standard STC with Cadians beiung their example regiment before they went full stupid on almost implying that every one of those models came from Planet Cadia....

I guess visibility and accessabiulity in the market is also a huge part of the recipe for success here, though.

**Shieldwolf Miniatures**

Dropping this here :-)

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Nice. That looks orkish, with the buzzsaw and machine gun.