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overtyrant wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Perhaps use a different term instead of "overseer," which has problematic connotations. Maybe "sparring serfs" or "mercenary trainers" or "Martial Retainers" or something.

This... When I hear overseer I think of press gangs of prisoners and slaves.

We are not going to use the 'language barrier' as an excuse since a couple of us speak rather good English (maybe not fluent but I think good enough), we must admit our mistake however and note that we now comprehend why some people like jorny didn't like the fluff idea. The word "Overseer" picked from us seems to be a very bad choice then, we thought it was a synonym to "tutor"/he who looks from above, the "supervisor" if you like. We had looked for a single word
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/overseer to define the model, 'supervisor' we didn't like, so we'll probably go with 'mercenary trainer' although we'd have prefered a single word better :-(

 AlexHolker wrote:
I can think of two ways that these "overseers" could be implemented that could work nicely.

1. Instead of being generic barbarians, have them be members of one of the other factions. For example, you could make up a few Araves character minis with woolen cloaks and Shieldmaiden weapons to represent these foreign advisors.

2. Have the tallest Shieldmaidens drafted into this OPFOR role, and equipped with a mix of Shieldmaiden and captured equipment.

Or do both, with these taller Shieldmaidens spreading the burden of this role so they don't have to rely on a few foreigners. Either way, you'd have an excuse to make these "overseers" quite diverse in appearance, and even use them to hint at future factions.

The idea of the Araves is very cool, unfortunately the Araves race uses the same bases as the Humans of Talliareum (20mm) and not those of the Northen Alliance (25mm bases). While a typical female from the Araves is 5.2 feet (1,60 meters) tall and a male Araves would measure some 5.9 feet (1,80 meters), the taller by nature Northenern women measure 6.7 feet (2+ meters). So it's hard to immagine Araves as 'mercenary trainers', the reason the Shieldmaiden hire them is to get accustomed to the larger enemies they may face in battle. We are now thinking besides the Barbarian 'ex-overseer/now mercenary trainer' of adding an optional model -Ogre maybe, or something else (?)-, but we need to see which model who made it to the final cut must now be cut off to make room for this one...
:-/

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 primalexile wrote:
Scantily clad female army, interesting

So long as they are sculpted and posed like serious (fantasy barbarian) fighters, the kit should work. They are in a similar scale and style to GW Marauders, giving us an option for Chaotic women warriors, some Red Sonjas to go with our Conans if you will, and they all have shields, so they are not depending on their bikinis to save them. However, if they are sculpted in cheesecake poses or with pigeon toes and knock knees, they'll be a huge disappointment.

Oh, I think you will just have to bear with us a tiny bit more then and see for yourselves. Speaking of Conan, we know that Monolith launches 5th of January, and this has put us on a hard decision making mode whether we should postpone till after they have finished or launch some 10 days later in order not to strain the backers who we hope will like both projects. :-)

I found the mountain Orcs quite interesting, something a little different from the standard Orcs we know. The plastics look very good.

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

overtyrant wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Perhaps use a different term instead of "overseer," which has problematic connotations. Maybe "sparring serfs" or "mercenary trainers" or "Martial Retainers" or something.

This... When I hear overseer I think of press gangs of prisoners and slaves.

We are not going to use the 'language barrier' as an excuse since a couple of us speak rather good English (maybe not fluent but I think good enough), we must admit our mistake however and note that we now comprehend why some people like jorny didn't like the fluff idea. The word "Overseer" picked from us seems to be a very bad choice then, we thought it was a synonym to "tutor"/he who looks from above, the "supervisor" if you like. We had looked for a single word
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/overseer to define the model, 'supervisor' we didn't like, so we'll probably go with 'mercenary trainer' although we'd have prefered a single word better :-(

If they are Nordic Women, why not use a Nordic word, such as lärare/lærer (teacher).

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
I can think of two ways that these "overseers" could be implemented that could work nicely.

1. Instead of being generic barbarians, have them be members of one of the other factions. For example, you could make up a few Araves character minis with woolen cloaks and Shieldmaiden weapons to represent these foreign advisors.

2. Have the tallest Shieldmaidens drafted into this OPFOR role, and equipped with a mix of Shieldmaiden and captured equipment.

Or do both, with these taller Shieldmaidens spreading the burden of this role so they don't have to rely on a few foreigners. Either way, you'd have an excuse to make these "overseers" quite diverse in appearance, and even use them to hint at future factions.

The idea of the Araves is very cool, unfortunately the Araves race uses the same bases as the Humans of Talliareum (20mm) and not those of the Northen Alliance (25mm bases). While a typical female from the Araves is 5.2 feet (1,60 meters) tall and a male Araves would measure some 5.9 feet (1,80 meters), the taller by nature Northenern women measure 6.7 feet (2+ meters). So it's hard to immagine Araves as 'mercenary trainers', the reason the Shieldmaiden hire them is to get accustomed to the larger enemies they may face in battle. We are now thinking besides the Barbarian 'ex-overseer/now mercenary trainer' of adding an optional model -Ogre maybe, or something else (?)-, but we need to see which model who made it to the final cut must now be cut off to make room for this one...

In that case, my vote is 100% for option #2: drop the mercenary trainers and just have the biggest, baddest Shieldmaidens in the trainer role.

In that case, my vote is 100% for option #2: drop the mercenary trainers and just have the biggest, baddest Shieldmaidens in the trainer role.

This. A hundred time this! I still can't see any reason for the shield maidens to hire outside trainers. Especially since they are supposed to be big and strong!

What could be done instead is that they hire mercenaries for operating war machines and such.

If the males are not dropped altogether...
One thought is that the male barbarian is not a trainer but a living practice target. They have no authority but are held captive to serve as practice for the maidens to get used to fighting males and learning their tactics.

That might swing the pendulum a bit too far in the the other direction...

Men as breeding stock only......

I think I've heard that before...

 RivenSkull wrote:
Men as breeding stock only......

I think I've heard that before...

Story of my life...

Anyway, I think a word like laerer or retainer could work, if the idea isn't scrapped altogether. It might not be a bad idea to leave them out at first and see if anyone demands such units or characters.

Just a few potential alternative words for you:

-Armsman
-Blademaster
-Journeyman
-Condottiere (probably a bit far out)


Any of those would fit better than Overseer, and far better than the mouthful, 'Mercenary Trainer'.

We appreciate all the help and comments, we are not going to be making any hasty decisions, but both breeding/training and name issues must be addressed before the project launches, we don't want any loose ends. :-)

I like the idea of hiring mercenaries not just to get used to different body types and fighting styles. You see it now days in MMA gyms where they will bring in sparring partners so people can fight against different fighting styles and body types. Often they will try to replicate an opponent by bringing in someone with a similar body size and fighting style.

My two bits.

Maybe the "overseers" can be the "overseen". The women oversee these men while they are in their lands and training them. They are Taken from all areas of the world to be used as breeding stock, trainers and targets. Some are warriors of great skill who have lost faith in their country's leadership and have left their military service. Some are warriors that fought against them in battle and proved their worth (killed many of their fighters) so they were drugged or magically contained somehow during the battle by a sect of the warrior women who "oversee" the battle and watch for "new talent" and also are watching the women to ensure they are trained well enough. These overseers could be the Valkyrie of legend (even possibly riding a Pegasus to get the view of the battle from above), they could be the best trained and most prestigious of the shieldmaidens. Then lastly would be the breeding stock, men chosen during raids into foreign lands. Not all of whom are big burly fighters, these would probably never reach the field of battle, but could be in the fluff. Some are taken for intellect, and are used to educate the ruling class of women, some are taken due to physical fitness to ensure good stock in the future, and some are taken because they are believed to be inquisitorbob because.....reasons .

I think any way you cut it, having human males in that roll would come across as sexist. It boils down to the women only being able to compete with the men, with the help (willing or other-wise) of the same men.

If I were the women in question, and I wanted a sparring partner to make sure I could best the men and I didn't think another of my own would be sufficient, I'd be looking to hire some orcs (or ogres, anything big and expressly NOT a man would do).
As a bonus, it potentially adds a dimension to the orcs as mercenaries.

But then that's still a bit sexist, really. I'm guessing the men dont have a whole part of the fluff and model-line dedicated to explaining away their weaknesses? Perhaps they could have emotional development councillors?

BTW Shieldwolf, I really like your work so far!

Edited: sexist, not misogynistic. Sorry, typing without concentrating!

Theo's idea of 'The Overseen' or something similar sounds neat.

@Supercollider Thanks, really appreciate it! :-D

@HisDivineShadow, @Theophony The idea -of allowing some men who demostrated true valor in the battelfield to live in exchange of training the female warriors- is very nice and close to what we want to use them for, since we currently do not wish to abbandon our initial take on mixing a few male barbarians with the Shieldmaiden faction. If we take out the mercenary trainer idea, this is what we will be following instead. Our decision is to currently cut all male characters from the Shieldmaiden army, with the exception of 2 single models; one male alternative rider and one on foot. All other models have been cut off and will be replaced in the next days with new female models to make up for the few empty spots that we now have due to this alteration.

-If people like our -small- male models mix, we'll keep them. If not, we'll simply alter their fluff and take them all out. Literally :-)

Thank you all for your comments.

I definitely do not want any male barbarians. I suggested the foreign advisors because they add more to the faction than just a Y chromosome but if they do not fit, I'd rather have no men at all. I would just give the role to a handful of Shieldmaidens who each specialise in a non-Shieldmaiden fighting style to serve an adversarial role.

 AlexHolker wrote:
I definitely do not want any male barbarians. I suggested the foreign advisors because they add more to the faction than just a Y chromosome but if they do not fit, I'd rather have no men at all. I would just give the role to a handful of Shieldmaidens who each specialise in a non-Shieldmaiden fighting style to serve an adversarial role.

We are pretty sure we will not be able to satisfy everyone, I'm not saying you will not be proven right but I guess we will await to see more feedback once the project has launched, if people don't like the idea we'll see it on both Comments section and -inevitably- number of orders/pledges...

Of course, Alex - you don't need to buy every figure released for a range - and even if SW release males barbarians you can just sub more females in - this is all assuming that you plan to play the SW game with their fluff without modifying anything at all.

FWIW, I'll do what I usually/always do with miniature lines - which is to quote Simon and Garfunkel: A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.

So I'll use whichever figures I like and fashion them into an army that I'm happy with in terms of background borrowed from where ever I like and figures from wherever I like and use them in whichever games I like. I'd be quite happy to see a mixture of barbarians of both genders released by SW (either as part of one army or as two armies) and mix them in together as one force (Armies of Men for Kings of War?). Perhaps led by a suitable (not-)Conan figure from yet another range for a Cimmerian Horde?

This also happens to be our greatest bet -and worry!
We have done our best to spread stretch goals as evenly as possible, but it may be the case that some Units/models do not get unlocked, making people feel they didn't get a complete army. Although there are models for every army designed (and some also sculpted/painted), they'll need to get unlocked to be made available. For example, 4 out of 5 armies get monstrous Cavalry. Although the 4th army (the one that gets revealed tomorrow) gets theirs pretty soon and with extremely low stretch goals (500$ for each model to be precise due to our co-funding), the remaining 3 will have to wait a bit longer and get theirs with much higher stretch goals (some4-5,000$ probably). This may cause issues. We hope the hype will be such however so in the case that the whole project doesn't complete -which is our ultimate goal obviously-, every army gets a sufficient number of models unlocked.

We have received -and thank you- compliments on our artwork and we have no doubt the quality of the movie clip prepared from us is very hard/rare to be seen in Kickstarters. All this is to prove the highest quality possible. We have also received multiple -and VERY reasonable- questions regaridng on who will sculpt the models. We have gone for the best & are very happy to reveal that some of the names recruited include the very skillful Paolo Fabiani and evolving talent Davide Tedeschi from Italy, the experienced Olivier Nkweti, Olivier Bouchet and MIKH from France, the veterans Patrick Keith and Sean Bullough from the USA, etc.
In few words, what you see in the artwork will be very faithful to what you'll receive.

Let's hope things work well, we really don't know what else we could've done... :-)

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

We have received -and thank you- compliments on our artwork and we have no doubt the quality of the movie clip prepared from us is very hard/rare to be seen in Kickstarters. All this is to prove the highest quality possible. We have also received multiple -and VERY reasonable- questions regaridng on who will sculpt the models. We have gone for the best & are very happy to reveal that some of the names recruited include the very skillful Paolo Fabiani and evolving talent Davide Tedeschi from Italy, the experienced Olivier Nkweti, Olivier Bouchet and MIKH from France, the veterans Patrick Keith and Sean Bullough from the USA, etc.
In few words, what you see in the artwork will be very faithful to what you'll receive.

This is indeed a great gathering of astonishing sculptors!!

make sure you've got a backup plan if MIKH is late,

he is a fantastic sculptor but has been really, really slow on delivering sculpts for some projects (eg Arena Rex)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
make sure you've got a backup plan if MIKH is late,
he is a fantastic sculptor but has been really, really slow on delivering sculpts for some projects (eg Arena Rex)

Thanks for the heads up, we had actually read about that and mentioned it to the sculptor when we made contact with him. He demonstrated professionalism when he initially told us he was unavailable for further commissions due to his burdened schedule. We discussed it however and came to an agreement that Shieldwolf will await for him to finish his other commissions first but regardless of him making it on time or not, we have currently booked his services for a precise window/period of time in which all of it will be exclusively ours.

We have great confidence in all our sculptors but in the remote case in which someone fails to deliver (regardless of the reasons), we are pretty sure that one of the others consisting our Sculpting Team will easily integrate in his program and deliver the work not executed by their colleague. That's also one of the benefits of creating a Team and not having to depend on just 2-3 people, when something can go wrong. And according to Merphy, it always does! :-)

That's good to know, you're aware of thing

Oh yes, we are sure something we haven't predicted will eventually turn up, but we are quite confident we will prove more than adequate to deal with it!

So, Monday again, the Kingdom of Talliareum will eventually see releases, since it's the only race in our webstore that has still not seen any models! :-(
That's because we consider it a very essential race in our world and wanted to accumulate experience before releasing anything.
A lot of companies have produced similar models, ours will bear a mix of Rennaisance/Conquistador character who will however always have something on them to make sure they are identified as fantasy models and not historical.



"...In times of darkness and despair, some races perish and others -somehow- survive. The Race of Humans was one of these. Although they were numerous, they lacked physical strength and were often picked on like the weaklings they were. Ogres did as they pleased with them, Orcs often raided and plundered their villages in the south while the Barbaric tribes pillaged their small towns up north. The neighboring Elves were the only ones who didn't bother them nor were they willing however to assist them.
The Humans saw their lives dominated by fear and their numbers kept dangerously thinning. As times went by, they inevitably realized they stood better chances through unity. That was a hard step for Humans are very hard to overcome their personal weaknesses, and have more often than any other Race challenged reasonable thinking due to their arrogance and pride. Their will to survive however overcame all vanity and personal ambitions, creating overcrowded centers which later formed huge cities.
The Humans were lucky enough to have strong and wise leaders who created the Law, took taxes and used them to build huge fortifications and outposts, while for the first time regular patrols guarded their borders and exterminated the numerous thieving warbands that had long ravaged their lands.The Kingdom of Talliareum had been formed and with it the Race of Humans survived..."

Hope you like it,

Thank you.
The Shieldwolf Team.

...Damn it.

I really like the concept art with the exception of the feather.. I am so sick of feathers in Fantasy.

 AlexHolker wrote:
...Damn it.

I take it you don't like it...? :-(

 primalexile wrote:
I really like the concept art with the exception of the feather.. I am so sick of feathers in Fantasy.

Thanks, some models don't have feathers, but most of them do, it may be a bit "treaded path" but we find it gives the bit of fantasy touch we so much love! :-)

As we said models will be very faithful to the concept artwork, and if you like it then that's great for us! The model above is being sculpted by Olivier Bouchet, here's a teaser before we start revealing any sculpts... That will happen soon enough :-)

I love it! This is the army I am most excited for so far.

 Shieldwolf Miniatures wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:
...Damn it.

I take it you don't like it...? :-(

I consider them a waste of scarce resources. If there are two things not in short supply in this hobby, it's zombies and fifteenth century European men. It's barely been a month since the last manufacturer announced they were throwing their hat into the ring with plastic landsknecht. If your manufacturing budget is as tight as you say, I'd rather you not spend a significant fraction of that on something like fifteenth century German men mixed with fifteenth century Spanish men.