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So I have run into a bit of dilemma and wanted to throw it out to the Dakka community to get their thoughts.

First off after reading 7th rulebook I knew, I think we all knew, that TO’s were going to applying various levels of “comp” at their events and in all fairness I am ok with that. My dilemma comes in that the only local GT has added a “comp” rule that completely invalidates my army.

Specifically the MichignGT has added the following rule in their 40k rule pack

Even if they are Battle Brothers, Independent Characters may not join units from a different detachment.

I want to try and avoid a discussion on the merits of the ruling but really focus on the impact and decision that it forces me to make. Basically this means that the CenturionStar army that I have built and painted will not function and I am left with a few options, none of which seem attractive to me:

Option 1: Not go. Probably the easiest and least costly option. However, I miss out hanging out with friends for the weekend and supporting the Michigan GT in its second year.

Option 2: Retool my army. Based on what I am estimating it will cost me $300ish to buy the additional units to compensate for the ruling. Additionally I will have to spend extra time building and painting units that will see limited gaming time in the future plus the cost to attend the event (gas, hotel, entrance fee, hotel food, etc..) of another $200ish.

Option 3: Cobble any army together and go. This option removes the cost and time investment of retooling the army but at the expense of tabletop effectiveness. My concern with this option is that I am not sure how much enjoyment I will have at the tournament playing an army that I don't think is effective and that I don't really want to be playing.

So I am curious what would you do?

If this is not the right forum for this discussion please feel free to move it.

While I certainly don't agree the with that ruling (and if you don't you should definitely let the TO know at the event if you go.)

For me unless you were going to buy models for use outside of this event I would rule out option 2. Spening money on units you don't want is a bad Idea.

SO that leaves 1.) Not going. and 3.) Cobble any army together.

Option 3 for me would depend on what units you have available to you. EIther models you own or those your friends own that you can borrow.

If you feel like you can make a reasonably good list then do it if you would enjoy yourself. If not don't go and save the cash.

Its really up to you as to what you personally value the most.. Is it going to a GT seeing friends and just tossing around dice on a limited budget what you want to do ? If thats the case then who cares. Go with what you have and adjust your list without spending money.

If being competitive is really what drives you to go. Then spend the money and time to paint up the nesessary models you will need to be competitive.

Combo of both plud limited funds then i suggest possibly borrowing models.

We as competitive gamers always have to adapt due tometa, GT rules sets, changes in game versions ect, ect. and if this intails buying or borrowing new models its pretty much a necessity.

but really its up to you. What personally will make you get the most enjoyment for your weekend... is it staying home or going ?

I vote number 3 - just tweak the list. You don't have any other marines? Any other units or models that could make a SLIGHTLY less competitive but basically identical army?

I never quite get the whole thing of only buying the exact models for a list, especially for a list that revolves around a single rule/trick. Long experience shows that the rules change constantly. New books come out which invalidate certain builds, new FAQs change the rules, new editions are released that change how armies function. It's almost a dead cert that if you build a collection of models that only function one way, you're going to be disappointed in the near future.

That ruling looks a-ok by me, ally shenanigans are part of what's made 40k such a mess.

That said, I vote option 3. Going to GTs is as much about socializing as it is playing.

What were you putting with the CentStar that is so critical ?

I'd be inclined to cobble or play an army that is just silly fun. I held off getting all my stuff together for my 30 kannon/30 buggy army for just such an event. Nova is allowing it but other events might not and I don't want to put the time and resource into an army I can't play regularly. That said none of my armies are built around a single critical unit or rule so I'm normally pretty solid throwing something together

I'll be headed to this GT with a local buddy. I heard good things last year. And even though some of the rules are wonky I think it'll be a good time.

@Fragile: I am guessing Coteaz?

Don't go. As long as you're giving them money, narcissist TOs will continue making you play the game by their rules instead of the actual rules.

I enjoy the social aspect of the game and hanging out with friends but at the same time I have been to tournaments where I didn't feel like I had a chance and really didn't enjoy myself.

Fragile wrote:
What were you putting with the CentStar that is so critical ?

GK Libby for GoI. Coteaz goes in as well but that is really because there isn't a better place for him..

You don't have any other marines? Any other units or models that could make a SLIGHTLY less competitive but basically identical army?

Nope. I added the marines onto my GK army that had been collecting dust.

i wouldn't go, i wouldn't pay extra money to an event that's basically forcing an unnecessary comp Nerf. there's nothing broken or spam cheese about battlebrothers joining their.... battlebrothers... in a combat game. how dumb.

looks like the TO and chumbalaya have something in common, they've both been dump trucked by a centstar, or baron/jetseer star. It seems like a rather salty, personal nerf.

save your money, that's my vote.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Don't go. As long as you're giving them money, narcissist TOs will continue making you play the game by their rules instead of the actual rules.

This. Way too many TOs feel that they're entitled to veto any army choices that they don't approve of, and this is just more of the same. There is no problem with ICs joining allied units that requires a blanket ban to fix, any balance issues that exist (the Eldar/DE 2++ unit, for example) can be fixed with special-case rules to remove the overpowered combo and nothing else.

 BraveRifles wrote:
However, I miss out hanging out with friends for the weekend and supporting the Michigan GT in its second year.

This should be considered a good thing, not a price to pay. You don't approve of the tournament's policies, so why would you want to support it financially? Stay home, and tell the people running it why you decided to take your money elsewhere.

 ArbitorIan wrote:
I never quite get the whole thing of only buying the exact models for a list, especially for a list that revolves around a single rule/trick. Long experience shows that the rules change constantly. New books come out which invalidate certain builds, new FAQs change the rules, new editions are released that change how armies function. It's almost a dead cert that if you build a collection of models that only function one way, you're going to be disappointed in the near future.

Sure, you expect changes occasionally, from GW (or from whatever company publishes a different game). You should not have to worry about some random third-party TO deciding to ban your army.

If your already thinking about staying home I'd stay home. A cobbled together army isn't something you should bring to a big show.

 zachwho wrote:
there's nothing broken or spam cheese about battlebrothers joining their.... battlebrothers... in a combat game..

There is when half of the armies in the game can use allies in this way and the other half can't, for no reason other than the fluff says so.


For the actual topic - #3 if you actually want to go. #1 if you don't.

I would write the organizers a letter explaining that their add-ons to the rules have invalidated my army, and that I thus won't be playing and hope they consider that when making the rules for next year. If the trip isn't too far, and if it's practical to hang out with people without buying a ticket, I'd probably do so and let people know why I wasn't participating.

3, one events not worth that cost, maybe buy odd new thing but no retooling entire force just make best of what you own/can cheaply add ore borrow.

May not be perfect but sure you can be competitive

As a TO:

If you don't like it, don't go - and TELL the TO why you aren't going.

If you do go and play under their restrictions, bear in mind that this does send a 'message' to the TO that you are willing to abide by those restrictions. If you complain about them AFTER agreeing to play by them, it usually just encourages that TO to ensure you aren't back next time.

If you're running GK with an allied Space Marine "Centstar", can't you just take a Space Marine Librarian or Tigurius and get the same net effect? That's alot less than 300 dollars.

Just re-tool and enjoy a more diverse collection. Eventually you will have to retool anyway. You just have to do it sooner for this competition than you would opt for. Everyone eventually has to retool.

 chromedog wrote:
As a TO:

If you don't like it, don't go - and TELL the TO why you aren't going.

If you do go and play under their restrictions, bear in mind that this does send a 'message' to the TO that you are willing to abide by those restrictions. If you complain about them AFTER agreeing to play by them, it usually just encourages that TO to ensure you aren't back next time.

I agree with this.

You need to let them know, and not play under restrictions that affect you negatively.

Honestly I would just run a SM libby and roll on Demonology. I've been using and not having too much trouble with Perils. Look at it this way, you are Leadership 9-10 depending on the liby, so most of the time you will pass the test if you hit doubles and not have too much trouble. Hell, you might even get a 6 on perils and be a beast!!!!

 whitedragon wrote:
If you're running GK with an allied Space Marine "Centstar", can't you just take a Space Marine Librarian or Tigurius and get the same net effect? That's alot less than 300 dollars.

Yeah, this was my immediate thought to remedy the restriction.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bulldogging wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
As a TO:

If you don't like it, don't go - and TELL the TO why you aren't going.

If you do go and play under their restrictions, bear in mind that this does send a 'message' to the TO that you are willing to abide by those restrictions. If you complain about them AFTER agreeing to play by them, it usually just encourages that TO to ensure you aren't back next time.

I agree with this.

You need to let them know, and not play under restrictions that affect you negatively.

And this. It seems to me that TOs frequently want feedback. *Anyone* wanting feedback, prefer it before the performance, service, event so they can make it better.

 whitedragon wrote:
If you're running GK with an allied Space Marine "Centstar", can't you just take a Space Marine Librarian or Tigurius and get the same net effect? That's alot less than 300 dollars.

Tiggy is already in the list. Typically Tiggy goes after Invis while the GK Libby goes after GoI. Tiggy could go after GoI but would limit my ability to roll up invis.

I wanted to thank everyone. I have decided not to go. I am ok with adapting to changes in how forces are selected and even to changes to rules when the participants have some voice in the decision like Reecius did for the LVO but I think I am going to avoid events with arbitrary rules changes like this.

1) Dont play in the tourney
2) Ask if they can make an exception, if not don't play in the tourney..
3) Make a different list/army

 BraveRifles wrote:

 whitedragon wrote:
If you're running GK with an allied Space Marine "Centstar", can't you just take a Space Marine Librarian or Tigurius and get the same net effect? That's alot less than 300 dollars.

Tiggy is already in the list. Typically Tiggy goes after Invis while the GK Libby goes after GoI. Tiggy could go after GoI but would limit my ability to roll up invis.

I wanted to thank everyone. I have decided not to go. I am ok with adapting to changes in how forces are selected and even to changes to rules when the participants have some voice in the decision like Reecius did for the LVO but I think I am going to avoid events with arbitrary rules changes like this.

I would say that you made the right decision. The most important thing is, to echo what others have said: let the TO know why you made this decision.

 BraveRifles wrote:

 whitedragon wrote:
If you're running GK with an allied Space Marine "Centstar", can't you just take a Space Marine Librarian or Tigurius and get the same net effect? That's alot less than 300 dollars.

Tiggy is already in the list. Typically Tiggy goes after Invis while the GK Libby goes after GoI. Tiggy could go after GoI but would limit my ability to roll up invis.

I wanted to thank everyone. I have decided not to go. I am ok with adapting to changes in how forces are selected and even to changes to rules when the participants have some voice in the decision like Reecius did for the LVO but I think I am going to avoid events with arbitrary rules changes like this.

You made the right choice. This is how to send a message you don't agree with the rules.

I think that sometimes it's nice to try a different flavor of ice cream.

 gorgon wrote:
I think that sometimes it's nice to try a different flavor of ice cream.

Chocolate now! Chocolate forever!

I'm surprised no one else has brought this up sooner. Instead of complaining a tournament has instituted a rule set you do not agree with, do the coordination and host one of your own on the same day and have no restrictions. Everyone will flock to yours and leave the other high and dry with no attendees. That will show them.

Bottom line their tourney, their rules. Don't like it don't enter. Coming on a board like this complaining isn't going to change a thing.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:
I'm surprised no one else has brought this up sooner. Instead of complaining a tournament has instituted a rule set you do not agree with, do the coordination and host one of your own on the same day and have no restrictions. Everyone will flock to yours and leave the other high and dry with no attendees. That will show them.

Bottom line their tourney, their rules. Don't like it don't enter. Coming on a board like this complaining isn't going to change a thing.

Except.. Well... He/she is not complaining he/she was asking on advice on what to do...

I think we have someone slapping labels around again...