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I know a roll of 1 always fails any save, but I can't seem to find a blurb that says you can't actually have a 1+ save.

The only way this would be possible in the current rules is to have a chaos lord in terminator armour or a warp smith roll "+1 armor save" from the gifts of mutation.

And the only time it would MATTER is when hit with an AP2 weapon, as they would still get their armor save, which would still fail on a 1 - but it's better than an invul. And AP1 stuff would still penetrate it.

Still, regardless of how unlikely it is to happen, and the narrow range of situations where it would be useful (monstrous creature combat, mmmm...), is there a note that says a save can't be better than 2+, as opposed to saying "a 1 always fails"?

"A model can never have an Armour Save better than 2+."

Right in the explanation of what an armor save is

I should read before going by memory, then. Thanks. Damn, just when I thought chaos had something nobody else had

 CrownAxe wrote:
"A model can never have an Armour Save better than 2+."

Right in the explanation of what an armor save is

Sure, but we could be really anal about this and interpret it the armour save is when you roll, not on the sheet. I mean, this is tenuous at best but I think that a 1+ save could solve the terminator issues some people have been talking about, and it would make sense fluff wise. You could then justify taking their invuln save away.

 CrownAxe wrote:
"A model can never have an Armour Save better than 2+."

Right in the explanation of what an armor save is

Pretty much this. No save can be better than a 2+.

 thetallestgiraffe wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
"A model can never have an Armour Save better than 2+."

Right in the explanation of what an armor save is

Sure, but we could be really anal about this and interpret it the armour save is when you roll, not on the sheet. I mean, this is tenuous at best but I think that a 1+ save could solve the terminator issues some people have been talking about, and it would make sense fluff wise. You could then justify taking their invuln save away.

No you can't the rule is literally right there. If you were right then why would they need to say it since the "1s always fails" clause makes it a redundant rule

CrownAxe,
It is a debatable point, the term 'Save' can relate to the Save Characteristic of the Saving Throw. Regardless of which terminology we prefer, this problem has already been addressed by the Authors thanks to that whole 'A Roll of 1 for a Saving Throw is always a failure.' The fact the Restriction takes into account both the ability to modify a Roll and to modify a Characteristic, and makes sure the ~16% failure rate is always present, is one of the things the Authors did right so I feel like recognizing it as much as possible.

How to make a 1+ "save"?

Well, apparently FnP is clearly defined as not being a save, thus we can ignore the rule about no save being able to be better than 2+.

The next ingredient? The fickle element of Chaos, or rather Tzeentchian chaos. Tzeentch's psychic powers gives FnP, and last I checked the FAQ/Errata still had not been updated to keep the effects of their spells from stacking.

Then target the same unit with Tzeentchian powers until it has a 1+ FnP save. Congratulations, you've created a near immortal unit.

The only downside about this is that the near immortal unit is going to belong to your opponnent, as all powers with the Warpflame rule are witch fires. Back to the drawing board I guess?

Isbjornen wrote:
How to make a 1+ "save"?

Well, apparently FnP is clearly defined as not being a save, thus we can ignore the rule about no save being able to be better than 2+.

The next ingredient? The fickle element of Chaos, or rather Tzeentchian chaos. Tzeentch's psychic powers gives FnP, and last I checked the FAQ/Errata still had not been updated to keep the effects of their spells from stacking.

Then target the same unit with Tzeentchian powers until it has a 1+ FnP save. Congratulations, you've created a near immortal unit.

The only downside about this is that the near immortal unit is going to belong to your opponnent, as all powers with the Warpflame rule are witch fires. Back to the drawing board I guess?

you could get a 0+ cover save. ruins 4+, shroud 2+, nightfight(stealth) 1+, g2g 0+

But as cover saves max at 2+ and 1's fail anyways it doesn't help any.

Hilariously enough you can get auto-pass FNP I believe. I believe it's a combo of clan raukaan [character] with gorgon's chains, the warlord trait, and the salamanders chief apothecary from FW.

sirlynchmob wrote:

Isbjornen wrote:
How to make a 1+ "save"?

Well, apparently FnP is clearly defined as not being a save, thus we can ignore the rule about no save being able to be better than 2+.

The next ingredient? The fickle element of Chaos, or rather Tzeentchian chaos. Tzeentch's psychic powers gives FnP, and last I checked the FAQ/Errata still had not been updated to keep the effects of their spells from stacking.

Then target the same unit with Tzeentchian powers until it has a 1+ FnP save. Congratulations, you've created a near immortal unit.

The only downside about this is that the near immortal unit is going to belong to your opponnent, as all powers with the Warpflame rule are witch fires. Back to the drawing board I guess?

you could get a 0+ cover save. ruins 4+, shroud 2+, nightfight(stealth) 1+, g2g 0+

But as cover saves max at 2+ and 1's fail anyways it doesn't help any.

You can get lower then that even. If you have a Techmarine Bolster the ruin to a 3+ save and take a camo cloak along with the rest of the stuff, you would end up with a -2 save.

 Spellbound wrote:
I should read before going by memory, then. Thanks. Damn, just when I thought chaos had something nobody else had

They do, no other codex HQ can lose all their wargear by doing well in combat.

 Brother Sergeant Bob wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

Isbjornen wrote:
How to make a 1+ "save"?

Well, apparently FnP is clearly defined as not being a save, thus we can ignore the rule about no save being able to be better than 2+.

The next ingredient? The fickle element of Chaos, or rather Tzeentchian chaos. Tzeentch's psychic powers gives FnP, and last I checked the FAQ/Errata still had not been updated to keep the effects of their spells from stacking.

Then target the same unit with Tzeentchian powers until it has a 1+ FnP save. Congratulations, you've created a near immortal unit.

The only downside about this is that the near immortal unit is going to belong to your opponnent, as all powers with the Warpflame rule are witch fires. Back to the drawing board I guess?

you could get a 0+ cover save. ruins 4+, shroud 2+, nightfight(stealth) 1+, g2g 0+

But as cover saves max at 2+ and 1's fail anyways it doesn't help any.

You can get lower then that even. If you have a Techmarine Bolster the ruin to a 3+ save and take a camo cloak along with the rest of the stuff, you would end up with a -2 save.

But wait there's more! If you have the hidden objective that makes your cover save 1 better you get a -3.

Oberron wrote:

 Brother Sergeant Bob wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

Isbjornen wrote:
How to make a 1+ "save"?

Well, apparently FnP is clearly defined as not being a save, thus we can ignore the rule about no save being able to be better than 2+.

The next ingredient? The fickle element of Chaos, or rather Tzeentchian chaos. Tzeentch's psychic powers gives FnP, and last I checked the FAQ/Errata still had not been updated to keep the effects of their spells from stacking.

Then target the same unit with Tzeentchian powers until it has a 1+ FnP save. Congratulations, you've created a near immortal unit.

The only downside about this is that the near immortal unit is going to belong to your opponnent, as all powers with the Warpflame rule are witch fires. Back to the drawing board I guess?

you could get a 0+ cover save. ruins 4+, shroud 2+, nightfight(stealth) 1+, g2g 0+

But as cover saves max at 2+ and 1's fail anyways it doesn't help any.

You can get lower then that even. If you have a Techmarine Bolster the ruin to a 3+ save and take a camo cloak along with the rest of the stuff, you would end up with a -2 save.

But wait there's more! If you have the hidden objective that makes your cover save 1 better you get a -3.

Instead of camo cloak scouts, take a Farseer with mantle, that would give you a -3 cover save, and you get to re roll it.

I always felt a 1 save should be possible. Basically on a 1 you still take the wound but it takes ap 1 not ap 2 to bypass a 1 armor save.