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 Master Shake wrote:
I can't tell if you're:

1. Joking

2. Admitting you cheat with dice

3. Being a tough guy

Seriously? Maybe you just haven't been on Dakka long enough...

Probably

Edited by RiTides - please remember Dakka's Rule #1 is Be Polite.

 Master Shake wrote:
I can't tell if you're:

1. Joking

2. Admitting you cheat with dice

3. Being a tough guy

1. Joking, no. You cause a scene and you may run into the wrong person when doing it. I don't have time for kids being blowhards in real life.
2. Cheat at dice? no. Its a game, shouting "cheater cheater" is immature and can get you hurt.
3. Tough guy? No. I just don't have tolerance for children any more. Its a game. mellow the hell out. You're making people not want to go to GTs becauswe, again, you sound like TFG.

No more comments regarding "running into the wrong person in real life" please... we take even implications of violence very seriously on Dakka.

Please return to the topic of tournament play and cheating... thanks.

...so anyway, most people will cut the crap if you let on that you are aware of their shenanigans and they know you're watching them.

I've been to 15+ GTs... I've had one or two instances out of the games where someone was iffy... its rare... It has happened to me more often at "casual" things...

casuals ruining the game...

 frgsinwntr wrote:
I've been to 15+ GTs... I've had one or two instances out of the games where someone was iffy... its rare... It has happened to me more often at "casual" things...

casuals ruining the game...

Down with casuals! WAAC OR BUST.

I've played more tournament games than I care to count and haven't run into anyone cheating on purpose. I've had one bad game against a slow player, but I don't believe he was doing it for any sort of advantage, he was just slow.

MS- I think if you look hard enough you'll find the cheaters, or at least what you think are cheaters.

Just tell us where the 'cheaters' touched you and healing process can begin.

The thing is, there are people who attend tourneys who need a reality check. In 128/256 people, You are not gonna win, there are going to be 99% losers. So they go in looking for reasons why they were cheated and why tourneys are filled with WAAC cheaters opposed to admit they simply are not good at a game or that there are random elements which just impact your fate.

All the examples provided are hardly being consciously cheating. Everytime someone grabs a dice before you 'inspected and confirmed inspection' is not someone trying to lie about dice rolls. Every time someone messed up some movement was not someone trying to screw you for an advantage. Every forgotten rule is not a malicious intent to knock you out of the running.

The truth is a majority of the people who attend tourneys are nice people and not going to be totally sound with the rules. This year, I suspect there will be a large number of people at these tourneys who this will be their first game of 7th edition.

If you are looking to 'be cheated' then you will end up feeling cheated. If you are looking to find cheaters, it is funny how everyone you play will end up being one.

The other thing is, people get tired. We are playing 5 games a day across 4 days often. 2 hours at a time on your feet is mentally and physically exhausting for many participants. That guy who forgot his rule may be simply tired. Cut people some slack.

The only time I ever saw something which even remotely could be described as 'cheating' was more about a vigorous disagreement in the rules where the FAQs had left a black hole and a judge had to make a call which one side didn't like. It had to do do with Necron Air force and vertical site arcs. Good old 22+22=45 or 45+45=90.

He was told explicitly how it should be played for this event, lost his game because of it and immediately went back to the favorable interpretation the next game. Since 5th edition, that is the only example I can think of which was legitimate that I have witnessed or experienced. But I am also not looking to excuses why I was 'cheated'.

I can't recall many instances of being genuinely cheated. The first one that comes to mind was at a store tourney, and not one of the many large GTs I've attended. The second was at a GT. I've encountered more of what I'd call "gamesmanship" at GTs, especially as you approach the upper tables. But that's not cheating.

The problem with the next-day "cheater, cheater" stuff that seems to be the norm in recent years is that most times the player probably made an honest mistake. And this would have been revealed and corrected if he or she had been called on it at that time.

Players need to take some personal responsibility. If during the game you didn't say anything about the given behavior or alert a judge, or didn't bother to ask or look something up, then part of it's on you. Turning in your results means you're signing off on those results. And if you discover later that you were in fact cheated, dragging names through the mud the next day just gets you dirty too.

But I acknowledge that the intensity has probably turned up overall in recent years as event stakes have been raised with cash prizes, etc.

I'm glad that there are people who find bliss in ignorance, I really am. I would love to not be perceptive enough to pick up on when someone is trying to a fast one. Here is a specific example I've encountered. I will not name names, as I personally feel that a lot of people are totally different people off the table.

A very well traveled demon player with some big awards under their belt declares they are going to use flicker fire. (6th ed) leadership is successful, deny the witch fails. After deny the witch is failed, said player states OK, warp charge 3, so 4d6 shots. I know most people will ridicule this example as forgetfulness. It is not. It is a thought out play in case the power was denied to allow warp charges for additional powers. Players who are credited with major tournament wins do not make these 'errors' unintentionally.

 Master Shake wrote:
I'm glad that there are people who find bliss in ignorance, I really am. I would love to not be perceptive enough to pick up on when someone is trying to a fast one. Here is a specific example I've encountered. I will not name names, as I personally feel that a lot of people are totally different people off the table.

A very well traveled demon player with some big awards under their belt declares they are going to use flicker fire. (6th ed) leadership is successful, deny the witch fails. After deny the witch is failed, said player states OK, warp charge 3, so 4d6 shots. I know most people will ridicule this example as forgetfulness. It is not. It is a thought out play in case the power was denied to allow warp charges for additional powers. Players who are credited with major tournament wins do not make these 'errors' unintentionally.

Wouldn't the person who is 'denying the witch' supposed to say 'Declare your warp charges before I roll?' If they feel it is a big deal, instead of crying on the internet later like a piss pants? Pretty simple to take ambiguous fast play as malicious cheating when you intentionally try to set up traps to say 'AH HA! you are now a cheater because I let you do something outside the rules but in this situation had zero impact on anything this time!'

If you want to slow down rolls and gameplay to be explicit about the order of rules because you feel it is important to do so... then do so. Don't just let someone who is speeding through the motions to try to help keep the game moving go and then bottle up unreasonable bitterness so you can rage out about how you were cheated later. I am sure if you said 'hey, these are important rolls, you have a psychic heavy army, can we make sure we do this right?' they would have no issues and would articulate every roll opposed to assuming you know what is going on and if you had an issue you would speak up. Experienced players tend to know when to play fast for expedience sake and when to slow stuff down because there is a reason.

It seems the trolls have climbed out from under their bridge this afternoon.

Yeah, can we just shut this troll thread down?

Previous troll work from Mr. Shake, for reference:

- http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/434614.page
- http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/511303.page

chipstar1 wrote:
Yeah, can we just shut this troll thread down?

Previous troll work from Mr. Shake, for reference:

- http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/434614.page
- http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/511303.page

My favorite is how he is trying to hide the identity by being so 'cryptic', instead of just saying it. Trolls are trolls, and will be forgotten soon.

Edited by RiTides

Nick is a pretty upstanding gentleman.

Can we lock the personal vendetta troll thread please

I'll say this: I know when I attend tournaments that there are cheaters there. Not just for 40k; this is true of any game/competition, especially one that awards prizes. The fact that cheaters are present is not why I probably won't be attending GT's again. It's the fact that all these 40k players prefer to embrace the cheats here, or pretend like they aren't cheaters, than deal with something that is pretty obviously an issue (reasonable people can disagree about HOW BIG an issue it is, but it IS an issue).

That's enough. I've seen these threads over the years--and all they do is end in hurt feelings and splintering of various gaming communities. While requesting clean play in tournaments is always a good thing--due to the nature of online discussions--this simply never ends well.

Ryan