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Can someone please provide a link to the MOST RECENT etc rules and restrictions?

ETC? European Team Championships? Can't you find it yourself?

European Team Championship. Biggest competitive WHFB event in the world

Other games are played as well, e.g. 40k and FoW.

I'm so excited

Fun fact: there will be NOT A SINGLE Beastmen player

Here's your go-to site for all needs:

http://www.etc-events.com/about-etc/etc-rules

Why would you want ETC rules? If you want to kill your hobby, you might as well sell your armies.

I know one of the Australian team often plays with beastmen.
(when he isn't switch-hitting for the Kiwi team).

ETC won't kill your hobby. Douchebag players might, but the one and the other - though often conflated - are not the same.

Etc along with Swedish comp is way too restricted. Just my opinion

I really like ETC / Swedish comp / heavy comp when mixed with no comp. Like this months tournament, heavy comp, next month no comp.

It allows you to play at the super cut throat WAAC take the best units possible level some days but then others you get to see beastmen and tomb kings on the table or slaanesh daemons and black ark fleetmasters.

To each their own, if you want to min/max & play uber competitive dont use it. if you want to see some variety / people getting creative use heavy comp.

But chromedog has it right it comes down to players. some WAAC player will find a way to min/max heavy comp or some fluffbunny will bring a gak army to a no comp tourny & give an easy 20-0 round 1, know your limit play within it or at least come prepared for the spirit of the event.

 chromedog wrote:
ETC won't kill your hobby. Douchebag players might, but the one and the other - though often conflated - are not the same.

I beg to differ. I spent two years playing under the comp. I sold off three armies because of it.

ETC is not warhammer. And most people I know seem to agree.

 Wilytank wrote:
ETC? European Team Championships? Can't you find it yourself?

No I cannot find it myself. Sue me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
European Team Championship. Biggest competitive WHFB event in the world

Other games are played as well, e.g. 40k and FoW.

I'm so excited

Fun fact: there will be NOT A SINGLE Beastmen player

Here's your go-to site for all needs:

http://www.etc-events.com/about-etc/etc-rules

Thanks a lot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Why would you want ETC rules? If you want to kill your hobby, you might as well sell your armies.

Just curiosity.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
[
I spent two years playing under the comp. I sold off three armies because of it.

ETC is not warhammer. And most people I know seem to agree.

That's your opinion & you are entitled too it. I have found it can be a very nice way to break from the min/max same gak different board lists I've seen common in tournaments. You're also a competitive tournament player I'm guessing & feel this kind of comp just kneecaps your hyper efficient list.

Which is true, it penalizes you for taking the best choices. I'm a more casual player and in more casual tournaments I love it, I don't want to see netlist A, B, and C stomp the field again & again & again it gets boring. Now I know some peoples response will be "Build a better list or quit crying" but it's not about that. I can build a better list & I do for no comp tournaments and usually do well but often it's the same armies every tournament. When I want to run my necromancy counts (no vampiric units) it's nice to know I'm going to get in some good games & not just be crushed.

ETC/sweedish comp & no comp both have their place. If you don't like one or the other just don't play it, no need to gak all over everyone else & tell them how they're ruining the game. feth even GW admits their game is not meant/balanced/designed for competitive play irrc, which granted may be a cop out for them writing unbalanced units but hey that's their stance and at the end of the day let's just play with our toy soldiers however we want. Don't like comp, don't play a comp tournament. No non-comp tournaments where you live? Run one yourself.

I must say I dislike ETC comp as well (and quite a few ETC players, but that's a different story), but I like comp/no-comp equally, both indeed have their place in the gaming scene
There's two things I dislike about the ETC rulespack & comp:
- I don't like the "you can't play with your toys" idea, I prefer the "you pay for the stronger toys" approach
- It's the only comp I know that is pushed as "the one true WHFB" and trying to remove all others

I even intend to run in the future a "Carebear event" where the theme will be to bring nice, fluffy and balanced armies where I will enforce a completely subjective comping.
People submit their lists and I tell them if it needs to be toned down or if it's fine, or just give subjective soft scores
Of course it'll be controversial to some, but I won't force anyone to participate in it

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
ETC won't kill your hobby. Douchebag players might, but the one and the other - though often conflated - are not the same.

I beg to differ. I spent two years playing under the comp. I sold off three armies because of it.

ETC is not warhammer. And most people I know seem to agree.

That's your problem, not the game's. ETC always gets an immensely positive feedback from competitive players. If you aren't willing to play competitive WHFB, then that's fine. Selling your armies, however, seems like the epitome of overreaction

And just to throw this in: the atmosphere this year is awesome. As usual. Noone sold his army yet

Apart from that, I can't see how a certain tournament can force you to sell stuff...
As a non-competitive player, I only get the models I like to paint. I have many models that have never been used, like chaos spawns, Luminark of Hysh etc...I use proxies if I want to play a game, and try to expand my army, 1 step at a time.

I would enjoy playing my TK in ETC format, except the lack of ability to try to 6 dice something. Sometimes that's needed. Bubbled smiting, typically. capped at generating 3 bonus dice per phase, that's okish. Casket + 2 channels. I got a solid shot at not missing out too many times. MAx of 12 dice per phase used is tricky, as death magic really works well for the TK. But would have hierotitan to help out.

I'd have 300 more points. Ok that's cool. at 2.4k I typically only have 44 shots, So not likely to hit the 80 cap with free 300 points. that's a free sphinx pretty much so more T8 to smash with or a nice unit of necro knights.

I'm sure there is a lot of merit / fun in playing ETC tournaments due to the large player base and consistency of matches and the competitive nature of it. I'm sure it will sharpen your skill as a player and as a member of a team.

But, IMO it seems like ETC (to the unimportant casual player) is a whinefest of players / judges that think they can balance the game, and there is an elitist attitude that follows suit from some of the players.

Some people just don't like to lose, so they bitch "That's broken! That's broken too!". So what to do? Limit what each army can bring down to the most boring army lists possible. That way, each army has only 1 or 2 "power" builds and everything looks almost the same.

How about just deal with the fact that there are broken things in the game and try to outplay your opponent next time. Learn from your mistakes and take down that 4 cannon gunline army.

Someone show me a game that is perfectly balanced that doesn't have something overpowered compared to another choice... anyone? Didn't think so.

Anyway, I'm happy there is an organization like the ETC to keep warhammer going strong with a Tournament environment, but seriously... comp sucks.

Competitive Warhammer isn't something for you then. Regular WHFB has glaring balance issues that lead to the exact same army lists played over and over. There's no competitiveness involved if the entire match is mostly based on luck.

WHFB is not designed for competitive play - GW themselves stated so. If you enjoy the game "as is" - then that's awesome, more power for ya.

Competitive play is supposed to revolve around the players and that is why restrictions are highly necessary. And the feedback the ETC (rules) get is immensely positive among competitive players. Keep in mind that ETC restrictions are not only used at the ETC, but in most WHFB tournaments in most of Europe.

What's interesting, however, is this part:

Limit what each army can bring down to the most boring army lists possible.

That is what WHFB looks like without (!) competitive rules

Now: I appreciate your honesty in saying that you are a casual player without competitive experience. At the same time, however, your overall tone is rather unfitting and offensive to competitive players. Not liking it is totally ok, but calling competitive players whiners because they want to play a better balanced game is totally inappropriate.

Interestingly enough, it's always casual players badmouthing competitive players - when was the last time competitive players called casual players "whiny losers who can't deal with a balanced game that requires actual skill"?

 Sigvatr wrote:
Competitive Warhammer isn't something for you then. Regular WHFB has glaring balance issues that lead to the exact same army lists played over and over. There's no competitiveness involved if the entire match is mostly based on luck.

WHFB is not designed for competitive play - GW themselves stated so. If you enjoy the game "as is" - then that's awesome, more power for ya.

Competitive play is supposed to revolve around the players and that is why restrictions are highly necessary. And the feedback the ETC (rules) get is immensely positive among competitive players. Keep in mind that ETC restrictions are not only used at the ETC, but in most WHFB tournaments in most of Europe.

What's interesting, however, is this part:

Limit what each army can bring down to the most boring army lists possible.

That is what WHFB looks like without (!) competitive rules

Now: I appreciate your honesty in saying that you are a casual player without competitive experience. At the same time, however, your overall tone is rather unfitting and offensive to competitive players. Not liking it is totally ok, but calling competitive players whiners because they want to play a better balanced game is totally inappropriate.

Interestingly enough, it's always casual players badmouthing competitive players - when was the last time competitive players called casual players "whiny losers who can't deal with a balanced game that requires actual skill"?

I could not disagree more. Maybe in europe there is glaring issues but not here. Unrestricted fantasy is the best way. Placing too many restrictions on the game changes what it is. I dont have a ton of major competitive experiance(i do have some) but I do play local events with lots of tournment players and we do bring the pain in our unrestricted fantasy lists and there is no problem. Lots of time it comes down to the dice because both lists are powerful and both players know what they are doing and there is no other factor besides the dice when you have evenly matched armies.

Things like allowing TK 2700 points??? Thats insane. I know a guy here if you played any army at 2400 points and allowed him 2700 of his TK, the game would be over before it began. He wins with his TK regularly. Let the game be. At adepticon this year the only restriction was "no rhinox riders". The event was FINE.

You did not have a look at the restrictions but want to argue against them...?

Never said I wasn't a competitive player, in fact it's quit opposite. I play local tournaments all the time, with one catch: no comp.

Tried it with comp multiple times, and it wasn't for me or my gaming group of about 20 people or more. Nobody liked the limitations and we do our best to avoid it if at all possible.

I've just been around enough tournament comp players that do badmouth casual or non-comped environments and think their comp pack is the answer for everything, preaching it like a religion until the game shop gives in and adopts it.

With the majority of people that play Warhammer using no comp and aren't tournament players, that kind sucks. Even the guys like me / my group who want to play competitively, we wish to do so without being told we can't use certain models we bought.

Again, I have no issue with it, I just wish more and more gaming clubs would stray away from the comp. But, due to the growing popularity of the ETC more and more shops are enforcing a comp for their tournaments.

But what about the other large chunk of people that want to play competitive, but with no comp? Or, if anything very low comp (no special characters)?

I also wasn't targeting anyone in general, but from the outside that's what Comp looks like to anyone but those that enjoy it. That's just a generalized opinion from a lot of people I've discussed it with.

I know some awesome people that follow every ETC site, podcast and video. They also have no issue playing regular games with me and my group and they're flexible.. then there's the guys that won't touch a game of warhammer unless it's comped to hell.

Makes it hard to be into the hobby sometimes with a limited playerbase.

 scorpio7777 wrote:


I know some awesome people that follow every ETC site, podcast and video. They also have no issue playing regular games with me and my group and they're flexible..

I wish that all people were like that. Most competitive players I know are that way and I have rarely encounted any snobbish players looking down upon players playing on a less competitive level than ETC. Sadly, a lot of players automatically seem to assume that competitive players think that vanilla WHFB is no fun - it's not. It can be made no-fun, e.g. with corner castles, but that's the problem of the players. Play against a corner-castler twice - the first and the last time

WHFB can be a lot of fun. Hell, I play a full Goblin army, it's impossible not to have fun!

I just wish there was less bad blood between competitive and non-competitive players.

Again, Sig. Sorry if there was some bite to my first post, I never meant it to come off that way, but it's been getting pretty hard to enjoy the hobby with such a separation of gamers for one game.

The Comp guys sit on once side of the shop playing and my group and I on the other. It shouldn't be like that.

No offense taken, sorry if my post seemed that it was

I'm all with you on this one - some players simply need to realize that both competitive and non-competitive playing aren't two different games; they are different versions of the very same game, each following a different purpose and both being a perfectly valid way.

And in the end, girls wargamers just wanna have fun

 Sigvatr wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 chromedog wrote:
ETC won't kill your hobby. Douchebag players might, but the one and the other - though often conflated - are not the same.

I beg to differ. I spent two years playing under the comp. I sold off three armies because of it.

ETC is not warhammer. And most people I know seem to agree.

That's your problem, not the game's. ETC always gets an immensely positive feedback from competitive players. If you aren't willing to play competitive WHFB, then that's fine. Selling your armies, however, seems like the epitome of overreaction

And just to throw this in: the atmosphere this year is awesome. As usual. Noone sold his army yet

I do play competitive warhammer. It's why I avoid ETC. I've seen what ETC players and the packs are like. I want to keep this as a hobby. If I pay all that money to fly to an event like ETC. I want the pack to be sensible, and have the event decent.


And for reference.

I say sensible rules pack, because taking the double magic weapon chicken is allowed, but you can't take a death Unclean One.

And Dwarfs are virtually uncomped, whilst Wood Elves get their best toys taken away.

And don't even get me started on the Dark Elf comp. There's only one decent hit in that entire rules pack. Or in other words, my current list fits in if I take a S7 banishment, as opposed to a second soulblight. And, if I'm honest, the change makes the army filthier.

 Sigvatr wrote:
You did not have a look at the restrictions but want to argue against them...?

I did read them and no i dont like them. For any army they had in there

 Sigvatr wrote:
Competitive Warhammer isn't something for you then. Regular WHFB has glaring balance issues that lead to the exact same army lists played over and over. There's no competitiveness involved if the entire match is mostly based on luck.)

This sentence right here is why I feel contempt in my heart for proponents of the ETC format. It's so incredibly elitist, and sounds like people who sniff their own farts.

Here's a news flash about the ETC comp; it doesn't change anything about the degree to which luck factors into the out come of the game. If anything, it makes luck even more important since it takes out or limits powerful unit choices.

Another news flash; just because you say it is so doesn't mean that the ETC is the epitome of "competitive WHFB."

Lastly, I kind of laugh at the concept of "competitive" games that involve dice. You want competition? Take up a sport.

Saldiven wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Competitive Warhammer isn't something for you then. Regular WHFB has glaring balance issues that lead to the exact same army lists played over and over. There's no competitiveness involved if the entire match is mostly based on luck.)

This sentence right here is why I feel contempt in my heart for proponents of the ETC format. It's so incredibly elitist, and sounds like people who sniff their own farts.

Here's a news flash about the ETC comp; it doesn't change anything about the degree to which luck factors into the out come of the game. If anything, it makes luck even more important since it takes out or limits powerful unit choices.

Another news flash; just because you say it is so doesn't mean that the ETC is the epitome of "competitive WHFB."

Lastly, I kind of laugh at the concept of "competitive" games that involve dice. You want competition? Take up a sport.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Competitive Warhammer isn't something for you then.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Competitive Warhammer isn't something for you then. Regular WHFB has glaring balance issues that lead to the exact same army lists played over and over. There's no competitiveness involved if the entire match is mostly based on luck.)

This sentence right here is why I feel contempt in my heart for proponents of the ETC format. It's so incredibly elitist, and sounds like people who sniff their own farts.

Here's a news flash about the ETC comp; it doesn't change anything about the degree to which luck factors into the out come of the game. If anything, it makes luck even more important since it takes out or limits powerful unit choices.

Another news flash; just because you say it is so doesn't mean that the ETC is the epitome of "competitive WHFB."

Lastly, I kind of laugh at the concept of "competitive" games that involve dice. You want competition? Take up a sport.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Competitive Warhammer isn't something for you then.

Not ture we play uncomped and have a fantastic time. Competitive=/=ETC

ETC is it own little universe and in no way effect the way uncomped players feel however ETC proponents will tell you anything but their ruleset isn't fair.

HInt: I play Lizardmen without skink cloud. I don't need etc. Neither does anyone else. But if its you cup of tea go for it.

Funny, I play under ETC comp sometimes and have never had an army list have to change. I suppose I don't min/max as much. I think Fantasy comped/uncomped is great...

But I do enjoy ETC, although when you restrict OP variety you get singular power builds that work around the comp over time. Eh if you want to try ETC have at it. It won't ruin your hobby.