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Sir Arun wrote: Well...what would have happened if the north hadn't fought against the South in the ACW?
From what I remember it wasnt the South that declared war first.
Yes they did. They fired first; they started that show. And they got their butt kicked up around their ears as a consequence.
As for Scotland... well, I understand where the "Yes" side of this argument is coming from. It's frustrating to have your political voice marginalized and taxes get spent on stuff you don't approve of, but that's a risk in any democracy. Their economy may tank after the split, or the oil may keep it going (till that runs out). If they are smart, they will find ways to diversify their economy to make it less relliant on one product. Maybe they could charge the UK rent for berthing those nuclear submarines up there?
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?)
As for Scotland... well, I understand where the "Yes" side of this argument is coming from. It's frustrating to have your political voice marginalized and taxes get spent on stuff you don't approve of, but that's a risk in any democracy. Their economy may tank after the split, or the oil may keep it going (till that runs out). If they are smart, they will find ways to diversify their economy to make it less relliant on one product. Maybe they could charge the UK rent for berthing those nuclear submarines up there?
I believe that the Scotch industry also makes them a fair bit of change, nothing like oil of course... but it's definitely there. Beyond that, I haven't a clue other than possibly "tourism" which only gets you so far, especially when you have the weather patterns of Scotland
As for Scotland... well, I understand where the "Yes" side of this argument is coming from. It's frustrating to have your political voice marginalized and taxes get spent on stuff you don't approve of, but that's a risk in any democracy. Their economy may tank after the split, or the oil may keep it going (till that runs out). If they are smart, they will find ways to diversify their economy to make it less relliant on one product. Maybe they could charge the UK rent for berthing those nuclear submarines up there?
I believe that the Scotch industry also makes them a fair bit of change, nothing like oil of course... but it's definitely there. Beyond that, I haven't a clue other than possibly "tourism" which only gets you so far, especially when you have the weather patterns of Scotland
American Colonists: We can't break away from Britain, we'd lose out on the tea trade.
John Adams/Thomas Jefferson/George Washington et al: Colonists, you're right. Tear up the declaration of independence, we're going home!
Not having a go at you, but Americans should be cheering Scotland to the max. Instead, we have Frazz impersonating a Texan and other American dakka members, reluctant to back Scotland. I'll mention no names
This is getting surreal
Automatically Appended Next Post:
d-usa wrote: I think the independence of the Republic of Ireland, and the subsequent war that didn't make a difference in that independence, are probably a good lesson that it is best to let countries do as they wish in that regard.
You're backing Scottish independence? I was about to ask if you really were American (every other American seems to be against it ) but then I remembered your Germany connection.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/18 14:38:51
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
American Colonists: We can't break away from Britain, we'd lose out on the tea trade.
Considering that the Tea Trade lost money for the colonies due to excessive taxation, I'm not sure why everyone brings it up
There was a fair amount of tea smuggled in, mostly by New Englanders and those pesky Rhode Islanders
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
angelofvengeance wrote: We're going a fair bit off topic here. This is Scottish independence not American Civil War discussion lol
You're the one going off-topic - me and ZebioLizard are discussing the causes of the American revolution!
Sorry for being a smart-ass
Anyway, back OT
Turnout could be as high as 90% - even Kim Jong Un would struggle to match those figures. A good day for democracy.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
As for Scotland... well, I understand where the "Yes" side of this argument is coming from. It's frustrating to have your political voice marginalized and taxes get spent on stuff you don't approve of, but that's a risk in any democracy. Their economy may tank after the split, or the oil may keep it going (till that runs out). If they are smart, they will find ways to diversify their economy to make it less relliant on one product. Maybe they could charge the UK rent for berthing those nuclear submarines up there?
I believe that the Scotch industry also makes them a fair bit of change, nothing like oil of course... but it's definitely there. Beyond that, I haven't a clue other than possibly "tourism" which only gets you so far, especially when you have the weather patterns of Scotland
American Colonists: We can't break away from Britain, we'd lose out on the tea trade.
John Adams/Thomas Jefferson/George Washington et al: Colonists, you're right. Tear up the declaration of independence, we're going home!
Not having a go at you, but Americans should be cheering Scotland to the max. Instead, we have Frazz impersonating a Texan and other American dakka members, reluctant to back Scotland. I'll mention no names
This is getting surreal
Lol, I'm all for William Wallace FINALLY gettin' the Freedom he was after... I was merely pointing out, due to some wondering about the economics of Scotland "only" having oil to offer the rest of the world
Of course, as others pointed out, after the American War of Independence, our economy was in the tank, and in the 18th century, that was fine. In the 21st Century, we have such a global economy that Scotland facing a poor economy at home can/probably will have some effect on everyone else out here. This would also be one of the few times that I'd be for sending "foreign aid" to help the Scots get back on their feet... I wouldn't mind one bit of the US Gov't sent me to scotland on vacation so that I could prop up the economy
As for Scotland... well, I understand where the "Yes" side of this argument is coming from. It's frustrating to have your political voice marginalized and taxes get spent on stuff you don't approve of, but that's a risk in any democracy. Their economy may tank after the split, or the oil may keep it going (till that runs out). If they are smart, they will find ways to diversify their economy to make it less relliant on one product. Maybe they could charge the UK rent for berthing those nuclear submarines up there?
I believe that the Scotch industry also makes them a fair bit of change, nothing like oil of course... but it's definitely there. Beyond that, I haven't a clue other than possibly "tourism" which only gets you so far, especially when you have the weather patterns of Scotland
American Colonists: We can't break away from Britain, we'd lose out on the tea trade.
John Adams/Thomas Jefferson/George Washington et al: Colonists, you're right. Tear up the declaration of independence, we're going home!
Not having a go at you, but Americans should be cheering Scotland to the max. Instead, we have Frazz impersonating a Texan and other American dakka members, reluctant to back Scotland. I'll mention no names
This is getting surreal
Lol, I'm all for William Wallace FINALLY gettin' the Freedom he was after... I was merely pointing out, due to some wondering about the economics of Scotland "only" having oil to offer the rest of the world
Of course, as others pointed out, after the American War of Independence, our economy was in the tank, and in the 18th century, that was fine. In the 21st Century, we have such a global economy that Scotland facing a poor economy at home can/probably will have some effect on everyone else out here. This would also be one of the few times that I'd be for sending "foreign aid" to help the Scots get back on their feet... I wouldn't mind one bit of the US Gov't sent me to scotland on vacation so that I could prop up the economy
Like others have mentioned, Scotland has oil, and sooner or later, the USA will cook up an excuse to invade (they'll accuse Scotland of banning Ronald Reagan films ) , Scotland will be annexed, and will be funded for evermore by the US taxpayer. In other words, Scotland's economy is secure.
But then again, Scotland may flirt with China, giving those peace loving people an opportunity to put a dagger at America's throat (to paraphrase Japan's military pre-pearl Harbour )
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
d-usa wrote: I think the independence of the Republic of Ireland, and the subsequent war that didn't make a difference in that independence, are probably a good lesson that it is best to let countries do as they wish in that regard.
You're backing Scottish independence? I was about to ask if you really were American (every other American seems to be against it ) but then I remembered your Germany connection.
Well, I'm not really backing their independence (I don't have a dog in that fight). I'm just backing the vote in general and their opportunity for self-determination.
When the Irish decided to split it resulted in a war and the split between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland and eventually the Troubles which always have a risk of kicking back up. I'm guessing that this history might have been an influential factor regarding the decision to let this referendum proceed.
d-usa wrote: I think the independence of the Republic of Ireland, and the subsequent war that didn't make a difference in that independence, are probably a good lesson that it is best to let countries do as they wish in that regard.
You're backing Scottish independence? I was about to ask if you really were American (every other American seems to be against it ) but then I remembered your Germany connection.
Well, I'm not really backing their independence (I don't have a dog in that fight). I'm just backing the vote in general and their opportunity for self-determination.
When the Irish decided to split it resulted in a war and the split between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland and eventually the Troubles which always have a risk of kicking back up. I'm guessing that this history might have been an influential factor regarding the decision to let this referendum proceed.
The main factor was that David Cameron thought it was going to be a walkover - his plan was to kill Scottish nationalism stone dead. When the election was announced two years ago, the polls were 65% for staying in the UK. Now it's 50/50
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/18 15:19:05
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
There would be parts all around the country I should imagine. Although it wouldn't really be a religious thing. It's a hard comparison to draw, Scotland never saw the same levels of brutality as the Irish did.
Daba wrote: If troubles turn out like in the ROI/NI, which regions are likely to be in the NI (unionist) zone?
The day that happens is the day America repeals the 2nd amendment. Never going to happen. Scotland is not Northern Ireland.
Even so, in the hypothetical situation it would be interesting to know.
Unlike NI though whether you're pro or anti independence isn't split along religious lines, in NI you say more parochial communities with relatively similar points of view within but in Scotland many households are split and you can't point to specific areas that out and out are completely for or against excepot perhaps some areas of Glasgow where the OO lodges are
Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing
I'd like to see the results for this referendum broken up into particular demographics. Ie do certain age ranges, locations or professions vote one way? I mean just as an inclination as to how people are thinking. For instance one thing I've noticed is that within my own peer group nobody was voting no. Is that just a coincidence, or is it indicative of a section of society's views (uh, ie 20-30 something Glaswegians with suedo liberal view)?
Meh, voting day was uneventful for me. I turned up at the polling station (which also happened to be hosting a sort of day care centre at the time), came across some of my neighbours, and we were all in and out within five minutes. I saw plenty of Yes people miling about, but only one person who indicated they were voting no (just a guy wearing a Union Flag tshirt who walked in and out). I guess that particular station wasn't of high importance or whatever (...despite it being in an area where a lot of shipyard workers live, who I would have thought Labour would have tried to sway given the local representative's stance-ie raving like an idiot- on the whole campaign). Either way the SNP will still come out with something. If not Independence then at least more power (a poor compromise) and a load of dirt to bring up about Westminster and the media's handling of the campaign. A pity then if its a No that other's looking to go down the same route will have less precedence (hey there's a reason why certain countries have jumped on the No campaign), but they can at least cite that Yes for the most part showed how to carry out such a campaign.
Like others have mentioned, Scotland has oil, and sooner or later, the USA will cook up an excuse to invade (they'll accuse Scotland of banning Ronald Reagan films ) , Scotland will be annexed, and will be funded for evermore by the US taxpayer. In other words, Scotland's economy is secure.
Well, I'd hate for us to forcibly annex Scotland just for your oil. But maybe you guys could petition for admittance into the US? Okay, okay, I know we use Imperial instead of metric over here, and that's pretty close to a deal breaker, but think of all the good stuff you'd get from joining the US of A...
...
....
.....
......
..... okay, so there isn't much benefit for you guys in joining us. Mostly we'd get the bennies for having you here. I mean, we'd finally have a chance at a really good national soccer team. That's a plus. Bagpipes would become American, by default. That'd be cool. Kilts would become traditional American dress overnight. We'd have to come up with a new name, though, since "United States of America" doesn't do much to address the issue of the 51st state being in Europe.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?)
Wyrmalla wrote: I'd like to see the results for this referendum broken up into particular demographics. Ie do certain age ranges, locations or professions vote one way? I mean just as an inclination as to how people are thinking. For instance one thing I've noticed is that within my own peer group nobody was voting no. Is that just a coincidence, or is it indicative of a section of society's views (uh, ie 20-30 something Glaswegians with suedo liberal view)?
Meh, voting day was uneventful for me. I turned up at the polling station (which also happened to be hosting a sort of day care centre at the time), came across some of my neighbours, and we were all in and out within five minutes. I saw plenty of Yes people miling about, but only one person who indicated they were voting no (just a guy wearing a Union Flag tshirt who walked in and out). I guess that particular station wasn't of high importance or whatever (...despite it being in an area where a lot of shipyard workers live, who I would have thought Labour would have tried to sway given the local representative's stance-ie raving like an idiot- on the whole campaign). Either way the SNP will still come out with something. If not Independence then at least more power (a poor compromise) and a load of dirt to bring up about Westminster and the media's handling of the campaign. A pity then if its a No that other's looking to go down the same route will have less precedence (hey there's a reason why certain countries have jumped on the No campaign), but they can at least cite that Yes for the most part showed how to carry out such a campaign.
Voting was pretty uneventful for me as well as I'm registered back in Perth so I just set up a proxy vote
Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing
Daba wrote: If troubles turn out like in the ROI/NI, which regions are likely to be in the NI (unionist) zone?
Scotland won't turn out like NI for a number of reason:
1. There isn't the religious divide we had (have) over here.
2. Not only has there not been the preceding years of violence but there hasn't been the years of bigotry.
3. A lot of the atrocities committed during the troubles which caused the violence to escalate would no longer be tolerated.
Well I spent my day at work supporting with adults with learning disabilities to vote. It was quite interesting, many of them had unique viewpoints and the majority told me they wanted to vote No as they felt only a United Kingdom would have enough resources to support individuals in their position, although a few voted Yes as they felt it was the only way to overhaul what they feel is a broken support system.
Either way interesting viewpoints, now I'm off to vote.
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
Just for anyone saying the Scottish economy is solely based on oil.
Consider that Scotland has 8.3% of the UK population
32% of the land area.
61% of the sea area.
90% of the fresh water.
65% of the natural gas production.
96.5% of the crude oil production.
47% of the open cast coal production
81% of the untapped coal reserves
62% of the timber production
46% of the total forest area
92% of the hydro electric production
40% of the wind wave and solar energy production
60% of the fish landings
30% of the beef herd
20% of the sheep herd
9% of the dairy herd
10% of the pig herd
15% of the cereal holdings
20% of the potato holdings
...obviously 100% of the Scotch Whisky industry.
17 billion pound construction industry
13 billion food and drink industry
10 billion business services industry
9.3 billion chemical services industry
A 9.3 billion tourism industry
7 billion financial services industry
5 billion aeroservice industry
4.5 billion pound whisky exports industry
3.1 billion pound life sciences industry
Scotland still has 350 million pounds worth of textile exports
25% of Europe's wave and wind energy potential.
Emperor's Eagles (undergoing Chapter reorganization)
Caledonian 95th (undergoing regimental reorganization)
Thousands Sons (undergoing Warband re--- wait, are any of my 40K armies playable?) 
Legion: Dark Angels 
)
