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 adamsouza wrote:
"Trucron" had an incredibly limited model range. The theme came from not having any other choices to field.

Yeah, I always find that funny.
Because their theme was really "We're bland and have no theme".
Apparently having no theme is also a theme.
I'm glad they changed the Crapcron into something decent.

It's gonna be real weird to not see Wraiths in every Cron army though.
I guess those are going to be nerfed to the underground with all the tabletop time they got.

 adamsouza wrote:
"Trucron" had an incredibly limited model range. The theme came from not having any other choices to field.

Precisely. The very limited model range (we only had ONE legal 500 pts list!) and Phase Out dictated where your army was going. Nevertheless, this lead to the army having a general theme - everyone knew that TruCrons were all over Silver Tide (mostly Immortals) and had the "Phalanx" image. With the huge amount of different units now available to NewCrons, it certainly is a lot harder to pull of the same. It is, however, possible. Yet the NewCron codex fails at that task and ends up being a Ward-esque power creep codex with no soul. Literally.

My wishes/expectations

Make flayed ones usuable again or delete them. They are CC troops so give em about 3/4 attacks, rending and fear. That is even logical// just look at them. Big slicing claws, they look sharp, real sharp. And fear, hey they are wearing skin for crying out loud.

Barges a bit more expensive.

Phaeron rule makes the attached squad fearless?

Destroyers cheaper.about 5pts per model and jetbikes? :S

Monolith deepstrike mishap prevention

Living metal usefull again?

Probably a price bump on vehicles and a small nerf on tesla.

Damn good warlord traits.

Leader of the tomb world. Bonus on reserves.

Lychguard are fine. Just a little less costly please?

Krumpa wrote:

Make flayed ones usuable again or delete them. They are CC troops so give em about 3/4 attacks, rending and fear. That is even logical// just look at them. Big slicing claws, they look sharp, real sharp. And fear, hey they are wearing skin for crying out loud.

I agree with everything except fear.

If we're trying to make them better, it might be best not to give them the most useless rule in the game.

You can still have that same crap "theme" by only fielding warriors, immortals, destroyers, and scarabs, and just concedeing when your down to 25%

"Necron Raiders" were a stepping stone, not a whole army.

 adamsouza wrote:

You can still have that same crap "theme" by only fielding warriors, immortals, destroyers, and scarabs, and just concedeing when your down to 25%

We reached a misunderstanding here as you do not seem to understand the difference between rules and fluff.

@Flayed Ones: They do not need a lot to be viable. Give them an ability similar to the one Pariahs have: any model within 6-12 '' of a Flayed One is treated as having LD 7.

Just catching up with rumors, which point to Necrons getting the Grey Knight treatment. Nothing really new, and everything released in a single week, just in time for Halloween.

Oberron wrote:
Maybe a fix to immortals to let them have a seat in the ghost ark or could be healed by them?

They just need a role in the army that isn't "slightly beefier warrior". Warriors just end up doing the role better because you get more damage and more durability (in the form of shots and wounds) for the points. Immortals don't need the ark because they have the night scythe as a transport (and the repair isn't that big unless you get your guys out before the ark dies which I frankly don't see happen that much). Immortals just need a reason to be taken over warriors.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The Silver Tide is far more alive with the 5th dex than it ever was under the 3e codex.

Under 3e, people seem to have forgotten that Warriors were eighteen points each. Eighteen! Not to mention coming in squads with a maximum size.

Or that Res Orbs were 30 points and just gave us what we now get as default.

Or that Destroyers used to be freaking jetbikes.

This isn't about strength or competitive viability, it's about the theme. The TruCron codex was completely aimed at that theme by drastically limiting the potential units you could bring and working both the rules and the fluff around said lists. As much as Phase Out was a disadvantage, it also perfectly fit the fluff and forced you into taking enough bodies (read: Immortals).

On top of that, you cannot really compare TruCron and NewCron units as the meta has changed a whole lot and points cost as a whole were heavily reduced over the past releases in order to promote more sales.

The problem with the NewCron codex is that there isn't a theme anymore. Most of it was randomly thrown together, promoting variety but, ultimatively, resulting in arbitrariness. While the TruCron codex was aimed at players who wanted to play an army because of the army and its background, the NewCron codex is merely aimed at power creeps who do not are about any fluff but want to skip straight to cherry-picking units. A typical Ward codex.

Actually TruCron didn't force you to take moe bodies, it gave an advantage to having your phase out be 10 models and that allowed you to field multi-Monoliths and C'tan. You then just held 1 of your terribly fragile warrior squads in reserve and phase out didn't matter.

I'm all for phase out coming back also because one of the purposes was supposed to be a discounted price on some of our strong units like Monoliths and C'tan and to counter the 3+ or 4+ WBB by giving the opponents a back door way to defeat the army. I think people would be more accepting of the T. C'tan if phase were put back in place.


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 CrownAxe wrote:

Oberron wrote:
Maybe a fix to immortals to let them have a seat in the ghost ark or could be healed by them?

They just need a role in the army that isn't "slightly beefier warrior". Warriors just end up doing the role better because you get more damage and more durability (in the form of shots and wounds) for the points. Immortals don't need the ark because they have the night scythe as a transport (and the repair isn't that big unless you get your guys out before the ark dies which I frankly don't see happen that much). Immortals just need a reason to be taken over warriors.

Immortals should have the Ever-living rule.

Sigvatr wrote:
This isn't about strength or competitive viability, it's about the theme. The TruCron codex was completely aimed at that theme by drastically limiting the potential units you could bring and working both the rules and the fluff around said lists. As much as Phase Out was a disadvantage, it also perfectly fit the fluff and forced you into taking enough bodies (read: Immortals).

Uh, what? Nobody took Immortals. Ever. Immortals sucked. They were too many points for a pathetic close combat upgrade that they would never use.

On top of that, you cannot really compare TruCron and NewCron units as the meta has changed a whole lot and points cost as a whole were heavily reduced over the past releases in order to promote more sales.

The problem with the NewCron codex is that there isn't a theme anymore. Most of it was randomly thrown together, promoting variety but, ultimatively, resulting in arbitrariness. While the TruCron codex was aimed at players who wanted to play an army because of the army and its background, the NewCron codex is merely aimed at power creeps who do not are about any fluff but want to skip straight to cherry-picking units. A typical Ward codex.

That is complete and utter bull. The 3e Codex was an extended Necron Raiders list, which was great in itself - but then it had stupid gak like the Monolith in it, which doesn't fit with the Raiders theme at all. In addition, the 5e codex expanded the options. It let you play other themes. For example, it gave me a lot more power to play my Tomb Guardian themed list - and not just by turning Wraiths into Guardian units (by which these days, I mean Canoptek). So no, the 5e codex is not aimed at 'power creeps'. It's aimed at people who like to play the game. Just like the 3e codex.

If the 5e codex was aimed at 'power creeps', they would never have introduced the majority of the new units. In terms of competitive play, the only new units worth taking over the old units are Annihilation Barges and Night Scythes. The other 'standard' Power Units - wraiths, Destroyer Lords - were part of the 3e codex too. Triarch units, Deathmarks without a Veiltek, and Lychguard? Almost as useless as Flayed Ones compared to Wraithwing. Tomb Blades? Doomsday Arks? Are you even reading the same book as me?

Sigvatr wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
"Trucron" had an incredibly limited model range. The theme came from not having any other choices to field.

Precisely. The very limited model range (we only had ONE legal 500 pts list!) and Phase Out dictated where your army was going. Nevertheless, this lead to the army having a general theme - everyone knew that TruCrons were all over Silver Tide (mostly Immortals) and had the "Phalanx" image. With the huge amount of different units now available to NewCrons, it certainly is a lot harder to pull of the same. It is, however, possible. Yet the NewCron codex fails at that task and ends up being a Ward-esque power creep codex with no soul. Literally.

Again with the Immortal thing. Where you get the idea that Immortals were ever the backbone of anyone's 3e Necron army I don't know.

Not to mention the fact that the 'silver tide' army of Warriors with Ghost Arks is one of the Power Lists of the 5e codex.

Then we come to the fact that you somehow think that having options means you have to take them. There is one one thing about the 5e codex that means you have can't play the exact same army as you did under the 3e codex. Just one: The change for Destroyers to Jump Infantry instead of Jetbike. Other than that, just use Immortal rules for your Warriors if you really can't live without the 3+ (I'll admit, I do - but then, my Warriors are metal and plainly too bulky to be 4+ stick figures).

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Uh, what? Nobody took Immortals. Ever. Immortals sucked. They were too many points for a pathetic close combat upgrade that they would never use.

What CC upgrade did immortals have?

I thought their upgrades were improved toughness and a better ranged weapon.

 vipoid wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Uh, what? Nobody took Immortals. Ever. Immortals sucked. They were too many points for a pathetic close combat upgrade that they would never use.

What CC upgrade did immortals have?

I thought their upgrades were improved toughness and a better ranged weapon.

he's thinking pariahs from immortals

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Uh, what? Nobody took Immortals. Ever. Immortals sucked. They were too many points for a pathetic close combat upgrade that they would never use

Huh? Immortals were expensive, but had +1T and, more importantly, Assault weapons, allowing them to move and shoot at 24'' whereas regular Warriors still suffered from the old Rapid Fire weapons that only allowed for 12'' shooting if moving even a single bit. I am not sure what kind of melee upgrade you're talking of - maybe you're mixing units up? Do you mix them up with Pariahs?

/e: 7k, WOOOZAH!

Immortals weren't exactly great due to their price, but they were the best choice in the elite section.

Pariahs were too expensive for a 1W non-necron, and flayed ones were flayed ones.

I believe she might be referring to disruption fields, which were basically the CC version of Gauss.
No idea why you would take fields on immortals though; you are meant to shoot with them, not charge.
The assault stat is for kiting.

Also, scarab please, I got 10k posts

Immortals had +1 S and T, and Assault weapons, but that was it. warriors were significantly better, what with being only 75% of the price and just as mobile. Assault's only really good if you're going to be charging anyway.

The CC upgrade I meant was the +1 Strength and Toughness.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Immortals had +1 S and T, and Assault weapons, but that was it. warriors were significantly better, what with being only 75% of the price and just as mobile. Assault's only really good if you're going to be charging anyway.

The CC upgrade I meant was the +1 Strength and Toughness.

A couple of things:

1) Immortals only had +1T - they were still only S4.

2) Their weapons were S5 AP4 Assault 2, compared to Warriors' Bolters. You say that Assault weapons are only useful if you plan to charge, but that's simply not true. Bear in mind that, in 3rd, a unit could only use a rapid-fire weapon at full range if it stood still. So, Assault gave you a lot more mobility.

raverrn wrote:
Aite. Aite I'm gonna blow some minds.

The Monolith as a Lord of War. Price it at ~450 points, give it some Baneblade scale firepower and toughness, and some army wide buffs why not.

I'm actually ok with that. I would love to see its power being proportional to the giant, bulky, model attached to it. Plus, it would give them a flavorful "super heavy" and help keep other current heavy-support items relevant after they get some inevitable, and probably large point increases (we all know Anni-Barge is definitely getting a big price increase).

Meanwhile, my personal wish is access to some better AP2 shooting. Fluff-wise I have always felt like their narrative technology seems to rarely mesh with the game-mechanic technology, which makes shooting Terminator-equivalents a miserable affair. :-p

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Immortals had +1 S and T, and Assault weapons, but that was it. warriors were significantly better, what with being only 75% of the price and just as mobile. Assault's only really good if you're going to be charging anyway.

The CC upgrade I meant was the +1 Strength and Toughness.

Are you sure you played 3rd / 4th? You don't seem to know / remember why Assault Weapons were vastly superior to Rapid Fire...

Krumpa wrote:

Monolith deepstrike mishap prevention

Living metal usefull again?

The Monolith already has mishap prevention, in the form a rule that most people overlook or forget about. Skimmers don't mishap if they land on a unit, they just reduce the distance like a Drop Pod.

And Living metal, while I would prefer it to be something else, still isn't useless. You ignore half of the Vehicle Damage Chart, pretty much.

Immortals were vastly superior in the 3ed book. Assault shooting was far superior to rapid fire up until 6th edition and immortals could charge after they deep struck. The improved S of their weapon and toughness made them ideal for the original Necron "flying circus" where lords would veil around the board picking off threats to the deep striking Monoliths and the Deciever, which wiped out everything else in the opponents army.


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 krodarklorr wrote:

Krumpa wrote:

Monolith deepstrike mishap prevention

Living metal usefull again?

The Monolith already has mishap prevention, in the form a rule that most people overlook or forget about. Skimmers don't mishap if they land on a unit, they just reduce the distance like a Drop Pod.

And Living metal, while I would prefer it to be something else, still isn't useless. You ignore half of the Vehicle Damage Chart, pretty much.

Most tournaments ignore the deep striking skimmer protection rules and will rule your monoliths as mi shaping. I've argued the point endlessly here and at Adepticon. Like I've said before rule #1 always rule against the Necron player.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Krumpa wrote:

Monolith deepstrike mishap prevention

Living metal usefull again?

The Monolith already has mishap prevention, in the form a rule that most people overlook or forget about. Skimmers don't mishap if they land on a unit, they just reduce the distance like a Drop Pod.

And Living metal, while I would prefer it to be something else, still isn't useless. You ignore half of the Vehicle Damage Chart, pretty much.

Where the hell is that rule at?

 krodarklorr wrote:

Krumpa wrote:

Monolith deepstrike mishap prevention

Living metal usefull again?

The Monolith already has mishap prevention, in the form a rule that most people overlook or forget about. Skimmers don't mishap if they land on a unit, they just reduce the distance like a Drop Pod.

And Living metal, while I would prefer it to be something else, still isn't useless. You ignore half of the Vehicle Damage Chart, pretty much.

I haven't picked up 7th yet, but the Monolith has DS protection? That's beautiful.

And if that was in 6th too, then I deserve a kick in the pants for never noticing.

That's not true. Skimmers do NOT have any sort of DS innate protection.

The people claiming this refer to the "Moving Skimmers" chapter and claim that DS is "moving" - which it is not. Moving is clearly defined in the rules.

Getting the thread back on topic, we can hope for deep strike mishap protection for Monoliths. If a space marine drop pod has protection the much more advanced Necron tech should as well.

Some things I would like to see.

Something that allows tesla to be on a 5, maybe a warlord trait that the stormlord comes with.
Warlord trait of some sort for +1 to res protocals
Fearless, come on, we are freaking robots!
Death rays to be more descriptive on how they work. Still a pain to explain to people.
Our elite slot to have something useful.
Monoliths to bring something decent t the table. The large blast is underwhelming, and ordinance is a pain. Let us shoot all the little guns at full BS at whatever we want, and make them a little better.
different/more viable royal court options.
Access to some sort of AP2 that isn't a blast or lascannon.

All I ask is that they give Cypteks a buff, so people use them again. Seems like all I ever hear about or see is D. Lords running with Wraiths, or croissant wings.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Access to some sort of AP2 that isn't a blast or lascannon.

This. A thousand times this.

Drakmord wrote:
And if that was in 6th too, then I deserve a kick in the pants for never noticing.

I'll take care of that, thank you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Some things I would like to see.

Something that allows tesla to be on a 5, maybe a warlord trait that the stormlord comes with.
Warlord trait of some sort for +1 to res protocals

Death rays to be more descriptive on how they work. Still a pain to explain to people.

different/more viable royal court options.

1. Yes, because it's not way too strong already.
2. Same. +1 to res protocols ? the guy would cost 350+
3. Death rays are a pain to explain to people because they break all the rules, hit flyers and invisibles RAW when they clearly should not do either and may not even snap fire at all being very much akin to a template weapon.
4. more viable than undercosted crypteks ?

I don't think you play the same game we do tbh.

krodarklorr wrote:

Krumpa wrote:

Monolith deepstrike mishap prevention

Living metal usefull again?

The Monolith already has mishap prevention, in the form a rule that most people overlook or forget about. Skimmers don't mishap if they land on a unit, they just reduce the distance like a Drop Pod.

And Living metal, while I would prefer it to be something else, still isn't useless. You ignore half of the Vehicle Damage Chart, pretty much.

No, there is no such rule.

If a skimmer is forced to end its move over a unit, it moves. DS scatter is most definitely, absolutely and utterly incontrovertibly NOT movement. It occurs before anything can be considered movement. It mishaps.