Necron's 7th Edition Book. What Are You Hoping For?

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**docdoom77**

JuniorRS13 wrote:
Very new to necrons here, only glimpsed through current codex once, but I was curious on how the necrons data cards would work. As necrons have no physkers, I wonder what sort of game mechanic they would receive in place of that, if at all. Maybe something like the DE power from pain?

Their army wide rule is Resurrection Protocols. I'm certain that won't change.

**adamsouza**

changemod wrote:
[hey are drones. There's nothing misleading about using the meaning of a word just because there's another type of drone in a completely different codex.

Substitute Terminators for drones.

You used a word that made sense to you, that confused other people because of the context. Instead of acknowledging that and moving on, you attempted to prove how you are right and the anyone who was confused was wrong to be confused.

GW has been keen to avoid using the term robot, or drone, in a broad sense
Tau have Drones
Necrons have Canopteks
Imperials have Automata

Canoptek is probably a lot easier to defend as a copywright

**Kangodo**

Can we stop the 'Drone'-talk now?

JuniorRS13 wrote:
Very new to necrons here, only glimpsed through current codex once, but I was curious on how the necrons data cards would work. As necrons have no physkers, I wonder what sort of game mechanic they would receive in place of that, if at all. Maybe something like the DE power from pain?

I don't think they will get Psychic powers, perhaps just Wargear to mimick the effects of Psychic powers.

**aprilmanha**

adamsouza wrote:
Considering this is a thread of Necron players, calling them drones apparently lead to more confusion than refering to them by the in game name.

It roughly the equivalent of refering to Necrons as Terminators, since non 40K players would likely refer to endoskeleton robots as such, but generate confusion amongst 40K players who associate Termiantors with Space Marine Tactical Dreadnaught Armor.

Huh that's pretty much the best way to put it

I don't think they will get Psychic powers, perhaps just Wargear to mimick the effects of Psychic powers.

I would hope they get something like the dwarfs power in warhammer, wargear to boot their deny the witch rolls or something.
Like Deny the Witch on 4+ or something army wide would make sense since they have no souls to be effected by warp powers and created the Pariahs

**jasper76**

JuniorRS13 wrote:
Very new to necrons here, only glimpsed through current codex once, but I was curious on how the necrons data cards would work. As necrons have no physkers, I wonder what sort of game mechanic they would receive in place of that, if at all. Maybe something like the DE power from pain?

Necron Psyker Equivalents have been Crypteks and C'Tans in the current codex. I imagine that will remain the case. No clue whether or not we're getting any cards. It would kind of suck if Cryptek and C'Tan powers became randomized by cards or dice rolls. Up to now, Cryptek techno-magic and C'Tan powers have been something you purchase as options, and there is no randomization, nor Perils of the Warp involved. They're not Warp-driven powers so randomization and/or Perils of the Warp wouldn't really fit.

**changemod**

adamsouza wrote:
changemod wrote:
[hey are drones. There's nothing misleading about using the meaning of a word just because there's another type of drone in a completely different codex.

Substitute Terminators for drones.

Substitute superficial resemblance to a different fictional property to generic category, sure.

You used a word that made sense to you, that confused other people because of the context. Instead of acknowledging that and moving on, you attempted to prove how you are right and the anyone who was confused was wrong to be confused.

Raw disbelief at this point. Drone isn't some arcane word known only to a tiny handful of people, such as if I'd said "Ushabti" to refer to a statue on a tomb world then expected people not to wonder why I was talking about Tomb Kings.

**docdoom77**

changemod wrote:
adamsouza wrote:
changemod wrote:
[hey are drones. There's nothing misleading about using the meaning of a word just because there's another type of drone in a completely different codex.

Substitute Terminators for drones.

Substitute superficial resemblance to a different fictional property to generic category, sure.

You used a word that made sense to you, that confused other people because of the context. Instead of acknowledging that and moving on, you attempted to prove how you are right and the anyone who was confused was wrong to be confused.

Raw disbelief at this point. Drone isn't some arcane word known only to a tiny handful of people, such as if I'd said "Ushabti" to refer to a statue on a tomb world then expected people not to wonder why I was talking about Tomb Kings.

It doesn't matter whether they are or are not drones. What matters is that most people don't associate the word "drone" with those units. Hence, confusion.

**changemod**

jasper76 wrote:
JuniorRS13 wrote:
Very new to necrons here, only glimpsed through current codex once, but I was curious on how the necrons data cards would work. As necrons have no physkers, I wonder what sort of game mechanic they would receive in place of that, if at all. Maybe something like the DE power from pain?

Necron Psyker Equivalents have been Crypteks and C'Tans in the current codex. I imagine that will remain the case. No clue whether or not we're getting any cards. It would kind of suck if Cryptek and C'Tan powers became randomized by cards or dice rolls. Up to now, Cryptek techno-magic and C'Tan powers have been something you purchase as options, and there is no randomization, nor Perils of the Warp involved. They're not Warp-driven powers so randomization and/or Perils of the Warp wouldn't really fit.

Reference cards for wargear could be handy if they're strapped for ideas, I guess.

It'd be more sensible to just give a pack of objective markers with the six tactical objective substitution cards though.

...Honestly, psychic powers being randomised appears to suck pretty hard. Glad we've managed to avoid that pitfall.

**Kangodo**

jasper76 wrote:
Necron Psyker Equivalents have been Crypteks and C'Tans in the current codex. I imagine that will remain the case. No clue whether or not we're getting any cards. It would kind of suck if Cryptek and C'Tan powers became randomized by cards or dice rolls. Up to now, Cryptek techno-magic and C'Tan powers have been something you purchase as options, and there is no randomization, nor Perils of the Warp involved. They're not Warp-driven powers so randomization and/or Perils of the Warp wouldn't really fit.

That is true and I really like it about the Necrons.
They aren't the pure robots some people believe them to be, but in the game they are really calculated and 'organised'.

They don't really have squads where every model has different gear, heavy weapons and special weapons.
If you want some AV in your Warriors, you use their Gauss or your Overlord sends one of his Harbingers of Destruction to aid them.
And if your unit of Warriors will be close to the enemies you simply assign a Lord to the squad.
They also don't rely on the Warp, they use their technology to mimic (or best) what other Psykers can do.

My biggest fear of all is that they mess this up.
I don't want an Immortal-sergeant, I don't want a Heavy Weapon-Warrior and I surely don't want Psychic powers.
I really want to keep my Royal Court that I can assign to units that need their abilities.

**Chumbalaya**

My hope for the next Necron codex is that there won't be one. Seriously, GW, stay away from my army.

**Pyeatt**

I want all models to have i7, and Flayed Ones to get a Necron Wave Serpent transport option.

**CthuluIsSpy**

jasper76 wrote:
JuniorRS13 wrote:
Very new to necrons here, only glimpsed through current codex once, but I was curious on how the necrons data cards would work. As necrons have no physkers, I wonder what sort of game mechanic they would receive in place of that, if at all. Maybe something like the DE power from pain?

Necron Psyker Equivalents have been Crypteks and C'Tans in the current codex. I imagine that will remain the case. No clue whether or not we're getting any cards. It would kind of suck if Cryptek and C'Tan powers became randomized by cards or dice rolls. Up to now, Cryptek techno-magic and C'Tan powers have been something you purchase as options, and there is no randomization, nor Perils of the Warp involved. They're not Warp-driven powers so randomization and/or Perils of the Warp wouldn't really fit.

Eh, maybe it could fit for C'tan.
They could just say that due to the unstable nature of the shard containment process, the C'tan cannot manifest his powers properly. Or something like that.
Perils would be out of character though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pyeatt wrote:
I want all models to have i7, and Flayed Ones to get a Necron Wave Serpent transport option.

That wouldn't be fluffy though. Necrons were always a bit on the slow side.
T7 across the board would be a better fit

**Pyeatt**

JuniorRS13 wrote:
Very new to necrons here, only glimpsed through current codex once, but I was curious on how the necrons data cards would work. As necrons have no physkers, I wonder what sort of game mechanic they would receive in place of that, if at all. Maybe something like the DE power from pain?

Maybe something more akin to Acts of Faith for sisters of battle. In function at least.

**Furyou Miko**

Ressurection Protocols and access to anti-psyker technology like Gloom Prisms... which will hopefully be worth taking in the next book.

**e.earnshaw**

I understand how resurrection protocols are funny in cases and fit the army but maybe a rule like
"damage limitation-there is limit to how far a necron can be damaged to repair only to find that doing so cripples it more
as of such any necron model may only use resurrection protocols twice."
or
"Lasting damage- as damage in combat builds up necrons find it harder and harder to repair damage before they phase out
after the first time a model resurrects on a 5+ after that it does so on a 6+.

I only say this because it can get really annoying in a game when some nubey player, new to the hobby, no grasp of tactics. Is wining because I have to kill his squads three times before they stay dead.
Just my opinion but here is imbalances then there is invincible units.

**vipoid**

e.earnshaw wrote:
I understand how resurrection protocols are funny in cases and fit the army but maybe a rule like
"damage limitation-there is limit to how far a necron can be damaged to repair only to find that doing so cripples it more
as of such any necron model may only use resurrection protocols twice."

It wouldn't fit their fluff, and would be a massive pain to keep track of. Can you imagine having to mark every single warrior model who has died at some point?

e.earnshaw wrote:
or
"Lasting damage- as damage in combat builds up necrons find it harder and harder to repair damage before they phase out
after the first time a model resurrects on a 5+ after that it does so on a 6+.

If this sort of thing were true, I don't think there would be any Necrons left - just a lot of scrap metal somewhere.

e.earnshaw wrote:

I only say this because it can get really annoying in a game when some nubey player, new to the hobby, no grasp of tactics. Is wining because I have to kill his squads three times before they stay dead.
Just my opinion but here is imbalances then there is invincible units.

If you're killing his entire squad, how are they reviving?

**Kangodo**

e.earnshaw wrote:
I understand how resurrection protocols are funny in cases and fit the army but maybe a rule like
"damage limitation-there is limit to how far a necron can be damaged to repair only to find that doing so cripples it more
as of such any necron model may only use resurrection protocols twice."
or
"Lasting damage- as damage in combat builds up necrons find it harder and harder to repair damage before they phase out
after the first time a model resurrects on a 5+ after that it does so on a 6+.

I only say this because it can get really annoying in a game when some nubey player, new to the hobby, no grasp of tactics. Is wining because I have to kill his squads three times before they stay dead.
Just my opinion but here is imbalances then there is invincible units.

It's not really 'funny in cases'.
It's just how the Warriors are resilient enough to justify their point-cost.

Yes, it sucks if they resurrect three times.
But is it that worse than a Terminator that never fails his Invulnerable-save or a Marine that always manages to get his Armour save?
Is that any different from Tau always getting their cover-save, or Blood Angels always succeeding their FNP?
Inv, cover and FNP doesn't get any worse every time it saves your model.
Why do you want such a thing on RP?

What probably upsets you is that you killed it, and it got back up.
People have often said that RP should be replaced with FNP, but trust me: That would make them more resilient!
The downside of FNP is that S8-weapons ignore it.
The downside of RP is that Sweeping Advance and a failed Moral ignore it.
I'd rather have FNP from a 'competitive viewpoint', because I've lost more Warriors to Morale and CC than to S8-weapons.

So remember: It's all in your head

**AlmightyWalrus**

Once RP happens it's too late to do anything about it, whereas with ordinary saves and FNP you know if you've succeeded withoyt having to commit additional units to destroy your target.

**vipoid**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Once RP happens it's too late to do anything about it, whereas with ordinary saves and FNP you know if you've succeeded withoyt having to commit additional units to destroy your target.

That only applies to characters.

For squads, you know whether the squad is still alive or not. If it is, you can commit more firepower to wipe it out - thereby preventing them from even rolling RPs.

**skoffs**

Give him a break, guys. He's probably new so doesn't know you're supposed to focus on/wipe the entire unit/force them to retreat to nullify RP.

**Kangodo**

skoffs wrote:
Give him a break, guys. He's probably new so doesn't know you're supposed to focus on/wipe the entire unit/force them to retreat to nullify RP.

Not always!
In Apocalypse I am still trying to explain people why they should not focus ALL fire on the Infinite Phalanx that is 60" away from their closest vehicle.
Same goes for Warriors in normal battles, you take them out when they are actually a threat.

The fear of Gauss and RP caused me to win more battles than my own tactical skills.

**AlmightyWalrus**

skoffs wrote:
Give him a break, guys. He's probably new so doesn't know you're supposed to focus on/wipe the entire unit/force them to retreat to nullify RP.

Hardly "new", the thing is that until you overkill a Necron unit it's still potentially a threat . If you shoot at 5 Hammernators and kill 4 of them, the last one can probably be safely ignored, as he's probably not a threat. Meanwhile, leaving even a single Necron Warrior standing from a unit could potentially mean that you've barely dented the firepower, forcing you to either spend additional, overkilling firepower to kill one Warrior or to let it live and risk having a threat left on the board.

In a sense, it's Schrödinger's Necron; you don't know how dangerous it is until you've checked the results of the reanimation protocols roll. You also only ever need to pass one roll, which I suppose is balanced out by it getting to roll if the unit is wiped.

You'll note that I'm not passive-aggressively attacking your credibility, so I'd very much prefer if you showed me the same courtesy.

**changemod**

Time to dig up my old "Observations on Reanimation" rant I stuck on my blog back when I started playing then, I guess.

Just figured I'd share my thoughts on this somewhere whilst I had them all in order:

Reanimation Protocols, psychological impact of seeing dead models getting back up aside, is effectively a tweaked Feel No Pain.

The differences are as follows:

Against shooting attacks, Reanimation Protocols is superior to FNP because whilst both are effectively a secondary save on a 5+ (usually), RP allows you to get back up under instant death conditions.

In close combat, RP is vastly inferior because it is made at the end of the assault phase. Anyone who dies doesn't get to attack because they only get back up when it's too late, and as a result the unit is at a significant disadvantage for combat resolution. When (not if, you're going to lose unless you're fighting something like cultists) you run, you abandon everyone who would have got to roll for RP. (And then the remaining sixteen members of the unit are run down and annihilated by three assault marines because initiative 2.)

In a vacuum, these pros and cons probably balance out. Taking into account everyone being initiative 2 as well... I'd say the balance swings in favour of FNP.

But of course, that's not the full story, is it?

When you apply this analogy to multi-wound Overlords, it falls apart entirely. FNP is applied to all wounds, not only the last one. Further, Necron Overlords have three wounds, a pretty low number for a dedicated combat HQ, under the assumption they can gain extra wounds from reanimating. Not exactly untrue, but if Mindshackle Scarabs weren't so dang good they'd be taking substantial beatings from their low initiative more often.

And then there's Orb buffing. Getting a buff to reanimation is definitely nice, particularly against shooting attacks. That said? Still doesn't help in combat. Further, Lords with Orbs are not normal sergeants, they aren't a Warrior tweaked to be a unit leader, but rather a separate, expensive model that fills a completely different role that doesn't synergise with the rest of the unit. If you spend even more points than just getting an orb in there, a Lord is a combat beast... And will not save your twenty man warrior squad from falling back and getting wiped out very often. Oh sure, he'll definitely score a kill or two, but the chances against a dedicated combat unit of winning combat resolution is still very low. As such, I've started to phase Lords out of my Troops choices. The points are better spent elsewhere on a dedicated combat unit which can either countercharge or range out ahead of the foot troops to try to get rid of the worst assaulters in advance.

And finally, there's the issue of Destroyers and Wraiths. Destroyers are a priority target, and will fall foul of the final weakness of Reanimation Protocols: Not getting back up if the unit is wiped out. Reliable heavy firepower aside, this fragility makes their high points cost hard to justify. Wraiths, on the other hand do not have RP... And excel in durability anyhow. Because they have a second wound, which is actually a far better thing to have. Barring instant death only, a Wraith need not roll for reanimation, but instead gets the benefit equivalent to passing it once automatically.

In conclusion, I'm hardly saying RP isn't a great rule to have nearly universally on an army... Because it is. It's just that I'm more than a little tired of people acting like my army is some sort of invincible juggernaut because of it. It really, really isn't. A Necron army will fold like it's made of wet cardboard if you hit it the right way, because the rule doesn't quite live up to the hype it gets and has massive, glaring weaknesses that are easy to exploit.

Wrote this ages ago, but heck if I'm retyping all that to just add a bit of new perspective. It was basically an attempt to refute the idea that Necrons may as well be plague terminators which I came across a few times amongst early opponents.

**ionusx**

monolith not sucking

**changemod**

How to make Monoliths not suck:

Drop pod or pylon style rules on reducing scatter to nearest open space.

Immunity to Melta.

Same price.

**keltikhoa**

ionusx wrote:
monolith not sucking

ALL this

If they nerfed RP
Nerfed Wraiths
Nerfed lords/ccb
Nerfed Tesla
Nerfed AB
Nerfed NS
Nerfed Destroyers(because why not eveything else is)
Nerfed everything in our codex

then made Monolith comparable to an IK i would be happy

hahaha

:Edit well happy that i get to use my 3 monoliths again at any rate

**vipoid**

I wouldn't...

**Desubot**

changemod wrote:

Immunity to Melta.

Same price.

Feth no. thats as bad as the sparten cheese.

No immunity to melta. maybe a invul instead. otherwise you invalidate soo much.

**changemod**

The gimmick of the monolith is it being slow and near-invulnerable. It's only the first of those right now, and nearly any army being able to pop it in one turn is what makes it such a joke.

90% sure the original monolith was Melta immune anyhow.

**Furyou Miko**

The original Monolith was immune to the Melta, Lance and Ordnance rules, yes.

Personally, the Monolith can lie in its grave. It's a nasty looking box.