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From a Fluff point of View what's Nererta's place in it all

The BL extract had her (briefly) under attack by Daemons and Mannfred wishing her destroyed..............

 Medium of Death wrote:
So do the Morghast and others go up tonight?

Morghasts are supposed to be next week's preorders, but today is supposed to be the Mortarchs and some army sets.

Is the entire Tomb King army listing available in this new army combination, or is it only some units? Sorry for the stupidly huge question!

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
So do the Morghast and others go up tonight?

Morghasts are supposed to be next week's preorders, but today is supposed to be the Mortarchs and some army sets.

Sweet.

I'm looking forward to seeing these units in closer detail. Transitional Khemri war constructs with more of a Vampiric flair.

I take it they are going with a four horsemen vibe with Vlad, Mannfred, Arkan & Neferata ?

 Medium of Death wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:
So do the Morghast and others go up tonight?

Morghasts are supposed to be next week's preorders, but today is supposed to be the Mortarchs and some army sets.

Sweet.

I'm looking forward to seeing these units in closer detail. Transitional Khemri war constructs with more of a Vampiric flair.

I take it they are going with a four horsemen vibe with Vlad, Mannfred, Arkan & Neferata ?

Kinda/sorta?

There are five Mortarchs.
Vlad von Carstein is the Mortarch of Shadow
Mannfred von Carstein is the Mortarch of Night
Arkhan the Black is the Mortarch of Sacrament
Neferata is the Mortarch of Blood
Krell is the Mortarch of Despair

Do they all ride those steeds?

Do we think Vlad and Krell are coming in a different kit?

Not since Vlad is purportedly still his dwarfish self in the model photos for the book.

Krell and Vlad are also purportedly on foot. They also would not really work as a dual kit. Plus the Finecast version of Krell is still pretty damn nice.

Shame about Vlad, although I do like that model.

Yeah Krell looks great still, no need for a replacement but having the option of throwing him on a monstrous steed would have been cool if only for aesthetic reasons.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
Is the entire Tomb King army listing available in this new army combination, or is it only some units? Sorry for the stupidly huge question!

I think it's all of them.

Hopefully this works as a standalone book. I think people have said it does, but I'm wary until people start getting those copies in their hands!

Anybody thinking of potential conversions for this release? I'm contemplating combining some Tomb & Grave guard to create a fusion of both styles. Perhaps combing the torso of the TG with the legs of the GG. Will require a snip and pinning but hopefully be worth it.

 Medium of Death wrote:

Anybody thinking of potential conversions for this release? I'm contemplating combining some Tomb & Grave guard to create a fusion of both styles. Perhaps combing the torso of the TG with the legs of the GG. Will require a snip and pinning but hopefully be worth it.

Mostly looking from a TK player's perspective (with a lot of the old Wargods of Egyptus figs to work with), but just a few here:

* Using the chariot body on a flight stand being pulled by horde mummies (substitute skeletons) and a Necormancer or mage on top as a Mortis Engine.
* A bunch of the old Wargods Abominations as Crypt Horrors.
* A mounted Mummy as a Wight Lord. Nice in that you can now have your general on horse and he doesn't need to be a caster, so you can get someone very cost effective to create a march bubble for faster if you don't take a Vampire Lord or Tomb King.
* If you can find some older scorpions from say reaper (they have some excellent ones) you can have skeletons/mummies riding or being pulled by them for Necropolis Knights.

The main reason I never bought into the TK army is due to their horribly dated core units. In order for me to really dig a Warhammer army, the core units need to look great (they are your bread and butter, no?). I have a few TK models that I got for Warhammer Quest randomly generated monsters (mummies, carrion, etc.)...but I refuse to pay money for their horrible skeleton and skeletal steed models...It will be cool to have an excuse to buy some of the cooler TK models (Ushabti and Sepulchral Stalkers, I'm looking at you!) and be able to use them with vastly superior looking VC models (Ok, the zombies need updating pretty badly). If GW release new TK skeletons/skeletal horses(& chariots)/skeleton archers, my pocket book and I are going to have some serious disagreements.

Was totally thinking that. It would be nice to have some tomb guard/grave guard/skeleton level tomb kings skeleton and horses.

It just doesn't make sense that they've kept them.

The other thing I'm worried about...especially in the vein of converting models in one range to match the aesthetics of the other is...will this Nagash army be playable in all games? Or is it like 40K apocalypse, where you need to have your opponents' "buy-in" to field this combined army in an "End Times" game?

Not sure I'd want to go to all that trouble if I can't get anyone to agree to a game...

 Fango wrote:
The other thing I'm worried about...especially in the vein of converting models in one range to match the aesthetics of the other is...will this Nagash army be playable in all games? Or is it like 40K apocalypse, where you need to have your opponents' "buy-in" to field this combined army in an "End Times" game?

Not sure I'd want to go to all that trouble if I can't get anyone to agree to a game...

It's only a guess... but I'd say (at this moment in time) that yes, you'll have "regular" Fantasy Battle games, and then "End Times" battles and scenarios with all the souped up uber goodies and such. Like Apoc or Escalation for 40K.

I could understand not being able to use Nagash himelf but it would be pretty gak to not allow Undead Legions for regular play.

The next batch of preorders are up, and while looking at the product description for Neferata I noticed this interesting little tidbit:

The full rules for using Neferata, Mortarch of Blood in games of Warhammer are included in Warhammer: Nagash. They can also be found in the construction booklet that accompanies the miniature.

The product descriptions for Mannfred and Arkhan say the same. I wonder of this is a one time deal or a change on GW's part?

We should set up a book on how many skulls there are on the mount! I reckon 243.
Also £48 - eeep!

Element games have the Mortarchs at 20% off, so a nice chunk of savings. This release is making me want to do a massive Undead army with Mantic core models and go to town on the GW character kits.

 Ghaz wrote:
The next batch of preorders are up, and while looking at the product description for Neferata I noticed this interesting little tidbit:

The full rules for using Neferata, Mortarch of Blood in games of Warhammer are included in Warhammer: Nagash. They can also be found in the construction booklet that accompanies the miniature.

The product descriptions for Mannfred and Arkhan say the same. I wonder of this is a one time deal or a change on GW's part?

Nice! It'll probably stay in the box, just like some of 40Ks fortifications.

Well, by 'one time deal' I meant were these the only models that are getting their rules added in the box with the miniatures or will we be seeing this with other future releases as well.

 Fango wrote:
The main reason I never bought into the TK army is due to their horribly dated core units. In order for me to really dig a Warhammer army, the core units need to look great (they are your bread and butter, no?). I have a few TK models that I got for Warhammer Quest randomly generated monsters (mummies, carrion, etc.)...but I refuse to pay money for their horrible skeleton and skeletal steed models...It will be cool to have an excuse to buy some of the cooler TK models (Ushabti and Sepulchral Stalkers, I'm looking at you!) and be able to use them with vastly superior looking VC models (Ok, the zombies need updating pretty badly). If GW release new TK skeletons/skeletal horses(& chariots)/skeleton archers, my pocket book and I are going to have some serious disagreements.

I just used figures from Crocodile Games (mostly Eaters of the Dead, but I also did some of the animal-headed guys done as stone statues for crews and Ushabti) for almost everything in the army. Only GW stuff is some converted cav and chariots. I'd suggest looking there if you want stuff that looks nice. You'll pay more per fig, but you get some very nice metal figures.

Man, I'm just skimming through the Return of Nagash novel and there are some genuinely surprising deaths of characters that have been around for years, decades even. It's like GW is creating a clean slate in the WHFB world.

So excited!

OK seriously. Reading the rules for the Mortarchs, the thing that stands out to me most is...

These guys are mounted on monsters. But they have COMBINED PROFILES.

As in a single profile.

Example:
Arkhan the Black.
8 Wounds. 7 Attacks. Toughness 6. Thunderstomp.

Seriously. Is this the new precedent for mounted characters?


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We won't see them too often though... if we're talking a standard game with 25% lords, you'd have to be 2600+ points just to field one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The fluff book is fantasticly well presented. It reminds me a lot of Tamurkhan in the quality of its writing and presentation, the way it outlines the events of the battles and what happens in between.

Question for those with the new Nagash book: does this mean that Corpse Carts can give ASF to everyone?

Because honestly I think Tomb Guard w/ Halberds and the ASF from Vigor Mortis (to counter Elf Elites) would be better than Grave Guard (that said, grave guard have heavy armour vs. Light armour, so it's a toss up really...

It says...

replace every occurence of 'Nehekharan Undead' with 'Undead'. If a special rule affects models with the Undead special rule, it also effects models with the Nehekharan Undead special rule, and vice-versa.

I actually think theres some great ways of combining the three undead magic lores as a result

nagash is pretty cool but those three dudes on the mounts are derpy looking.

whats with the skulls flying off the back ankles?

neferata looks like she is about to fall off or slide down that derpy armour collar plating thing. that pose worked on the bretonnian sorceress riding unicorn. it does not work at all here. she needs to be sitting normally and hanging on. it looks stupid at the moment. and the hat, enough said.

and something is not right with mannfreds arms. could be the painting.

edit: and neferata's dress. its not really convincing me of movement it kinda looks like.... a big chunk of plastic......

I hope this draws people back into Fantasty. Being able to use a lot of the VC stuff, including their rules in my TK army, will make a huge difference.

Mix and match for the best of Both worlds too!

 Micky wrote:
It says...

replace every occurence of 'Nehekharan Undead' with 'Undead'. If a special rule affects models with the Undead special rule, it also effects models with the Nehekharan Undead special rule, and vice-versa.

I actually think theres some great ways of combining the three undead magic lores as a result

And don't forget My Will Be Done for things like Graveguard and Black Knights combined with banner of the Barrows....

 Micky wrote:
It says...

replace every occurence of 'Nehekharan Undead' with 'Undead'. If a special rule affects models with the Undead special rule, it also effects models with the Nehekharan Undead special rule, and vice-versa.

I actually think theres some great ways of combining the three undead magic lores as a result

Is that just for magic?

I'm thinking: My Will Be Done. Get a cheap Tomb Prince in a unit of VC Grave Guard with GW or HW/S (WS5 on the unit then). After that you give them Banner of the Barrows (+1 to Hit) so hitting on 3+, or 2+ if they're WS4 or lower. Now you get Lore of Nehekara and some Corpse Carts to back up the unit (for ASF). Then you cast Cursed Blades (KB on 5+) and potentially Van Hel's Danse Macarbe (depending on how you pick your lores) for the following:

Hitting on 3+/2+ (with ASF from corpse cart), at S4 or S6, Killing Blow on 5+/6+ (potentially rerolling with Hellish Vigor). Expensive unit, but toe to toe against anything other than Ogres (and you can at least resurrect this unit for either 1, d3+1 or d6+caster level per spell) they don't stand a chance. I would actually suggest HW/S simply so the unit always has ASF, but that means the unit will suffer against Monstrous Infantry and monsters (and generally things which can't be KB'd).

The issue is jamming in enough cheap spellcasters where they can't be sniped straight up (so you get the spells you need reliably).

EDIT: scrap the Cursed Blades, now you only want a level 1 Liche Priest for Incantation of the Desert Wind as a compliment to Van Hel's so you can bump your movement to x3 or x4 normal movement.

Also a Necrotect is a cheap way to get Hatred into all your VC units now. Your ghouls will love that.

 nels1031 wrote:
Man, I'm just skimming through the Return of Nagash novel and there are some genuinely surprising deaths of characters that have been around for years, decades even. It's like GW is creating a clean slate in the WHFB world.

So excited!

Care to give a rundown of who's dead, for those of us who actually like the background as it was and now have the "fun" and "excitement" of figuring out how much of our stuff has been written out?

Stuff isn't written out- think of all the pre-End Times heroes and villains that have rules and models (Gorbad, Vlad, Isabella, Grom the Paunch, Konrad, etc etc, lots) but are dead. Lots of people still use them in their armies though.

now the same is true for more characters.

other than that, it shouldn't be too hard to figure things out. Custom army from Tilea? They luckily escaped the destruction of their land, and now really hate skaven.