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Toofast wrote:
For me the order of fun is
1. Gaming
2. Modeling








3. Painting


I paint them when I have to for a tournament or league but other than that it's something I do when GW and the shooting range are both closed and there's no good games on TV.

When just considering 40k my list would be:

1. Gaming
2. Reading fluff
3. List building
4. Discussing the hobby (fluff, lists, battles etc)
5. Modeling
6.Finding contradictory/unclear rules qnd discussing how they would function
7. Watching battles
8. Looking at all the pretty pictures/mates models
9. Having a break and a cup of tea (I don't even like tea)

99. Painting.

Im sure given long enough I could find 89 other things to do with 40k that i enjoy more than painting to fill up the list...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh I've thought of a couple more:

-looking on ebay for deals on painted models.
-finding ways to irritate people who think they are better than you because they have more time to paint and enjoy that part of the hobby.

Why do people like things I don't like? Why are their priorities different to mine? Why don't they understand that they're not actually having fun?

Mysteries, indeed.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I applaud you for getting them painted one way or another. I guess I'm talking about the people that just leave the models grey. Seems hard to justify the purchase.

They might like the grey color.

Because.....life. 40k is a hobby to most. A hobby that offers plenty of different aspects to those who have decided to take part in it.
Modelling (not just the cat walk) and painting (not just nudes) are the aspects that appeal to me the most.
I game when I can with friends who are just as busy as myself.
I enjoy painting, but I also enjoy spending time with my family, friends and saving kittens from tall trees whilst dressed as Captain Jack Sparrow.
If you don't enjoy playing against people with unpainted armies, break into their house when they sleep, paint their figures for them, help yourself to their cheerios and then your problems will be solved.

Personally I enjoy playing games. I enjoy building, converting, magnetizing models. I enjoy talking about warhammer40k, in person and on forums. I enjoy the fluff. I do not enjoy painting them, even though I've painted around half my army (which would be close to the model count of most non-ork armies) and didn't do a too shabby job on it. However, since I have a lot less free-time since I've got my current job I'd rather not spend it on things I do not enjoy.

I don't need my warboss to be painted to imagine a green eight foot tall brute wearing enough armor to build two tanks. I also don't need my converted tank-busta named Uhh-oh to be painted in order to imagine him dropping one of the seven tankbusta-bombs he's hold with both arms.

Bishop F Gantry wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I applaud you for getting them painted one way or another. I guess I'm talking about the people that just leave the models grey. Seems hard to justify the purchase.

They might like the grey color.

Actually, I like grey models a lot more than black or white primed models which prevent you from seeing any detail at all. I've actually thought about priming my metal, fine cast and green-stuff heavy models grey to make them look the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NurglesTurtle wrote:
Because.....life. 40k is a hobby to most. A hobby that offers plenty of different aspects to those who have decided to take part in it.
Modelling (not just the cat walk) and painting (not just nudes) are the aspects that appeal to me the most.
I game when I can with friends who are just as busy as myself.
I enjoy painting, but I also enjoy spending time with my family, friends and saving kittens from tall trees whilst dressed as Captain Jack Sparrow.
If you don't enjoy playing against people with unpainted armies, break into their house when they sleep, paint their figures for them, help yourself to their cheerios and then your problems will be solved.

Best solution ever.
Bonus points if done while dressed as Captain Jack Sparrow.

I like playing. Modeling large armies, but hate painting. I just pay people to do the painting part.

Lol. Definetly. However if you have enough green stuff, you could model your face to look like Davey Jones, then you would get AAAAALLLL the bonus points and then some

 Peregrine wrote:
How much do you really enjoy the fluff of a bunch of gray plastic?

Is the written background of the game different if you play the game with bare plastic models rather than painted ones?

To many players, the miniatures are just gaming tokens. No different to playing Monopoly with unpainted pieces.

 Madcat87 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
People who don't paint their models play 40k for the exact same reason everyone else does: Because they want to.

I had some big ole post typed out ready to go about all the different reasons why someone would play any game but then I saw this post and deleted mine as quite frankly nothing more needs to be said.

Agreed with these two posters. I paint my gak, and try to field fully or mostly painted miniatures as much as a I can, but I don't begrudge people that don't.

Also, this looks like another "Fire and Forget", stir-em-up thread from DailyMiddleBorro...

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Why not just play xwing or hero clix? How do non painters justify their cost of purchase?

Cos I like 40k
I can more than afford to pay people to paint my models to a much higher standard than I coud acheive.
I have limited free time and I choose to do other stuff that paint.

I don't actually see what the issue is with some people obessing over what other people do or don't do with their own models - whilst I can see that grey armies can be a little off putting - at least they are assembled.

When I first started Warhammer, I grabbed a whole pile of Orks, and quickly realised the sight of them unpainted presented too daunting a task to complete. Next I fielded Necrons as they aren't difficult at all. So I'm in the "I play for fluff/models/gaming" boat, and don't like to field unpainted models as it detracts from those elements in my opinion.

However, my brother is very committed to both university and home work, and hence cannot afford the time required to paint models, particularly as he works in an art field and therefore likes to paint excellent models rather than speedpaint. That's just one reason why people might play 40k with unpainted models.

Other reasons... Family (and otherwise "I have a life" ), not interested in it, not good at it, etc.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Why not just play xwing or hero clix? How do non painters justify their cost of purchase?

It is a table top game. It is ment to be played. If someone wants to paint there are cheaper and better looking models out there. There is also better stuff out there, if someone is in to modeling.

Woo hoo!

This for me as well. I know GW keeps telling us they are a 'model' company. What they seem to forget is htat 80-90 percent (my guess-timation) of the people that buy the models primarily buy them to play the game.

Toofast wrote:
For me the order of fun is
1. Gaming
2. Modeling








3. Painting


I paint them when I have to for a tournament or league but other than that it's something I do when GW and the shooting range are both closed and there's no good games on TV.

I think there should be an effort to get your models painted, as it just looks so much better when two well painted armies go at it, and also as a courtesy to other players who have spent ages making their minis look great. Having said that I'm the slowest painter ever - it took me about 10 years to get my Emperor's Children 90% finished (and then the new dex came out and invalidated half of them lol). I will get there, but I don't put pressure on myself to finish quickly. Plus, I want to do a good job which takes time. I would much rather play unpainted models than really badly painted ones.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I applaud you for getting them painted one way or another. I guess I'm talking about the people that just leave the models grey. Seems hard to justify the purchase.

They justify it by asking: "Is the enjoyment I'm getting out of these models worth the cost to me?" Apparently the answer is yes.

There are many reasons people don't paint. Some people don't have time. Some might have a medical condition (my dad, for example, got to the point he needed me to paint his armies for him, which is also why I was rather attached to them). Some people are actually afraid of painting models and having them turn out bad (I was actually told that once by a guy, but he has since started painting his models).

My preference is for painted models. I'd love to play against them, even if they don't look "great." Sure, playing against an army of brilliant models is great, but hey, if someone's trying, that's cool, I won't knock them at all. I'm getting close to wrapping up painting enough Orks as Blood Axes to have variety to play, and doing it in a relatively short time frame while having to work a 9-5 job (with a not-so-short commute time thanks to using public transit) gives me an appreciation for some of the concerns people have. I've resorted to just going a simplistic method for a lot of the models, no fancy layer painting and stuff. It still looks decent on the table, at least.

And if you're wondering, since the Morkanaut was released, I've painted a Morkanaut, a mob of 24 Shoota Boyz, a mob of 20 Shoota Boyz, two mobs of 20 Grots, eleven Mega-Nobz, one mega-armored Big Mek with swappable options, five Meks, two Burna Boyz, a Stompa, two Deff Dreads, six Killa Kanz, a unit of 11 Lootas, a unit of 15 Lootas, and two Battlewagons. And on my desk I have, to complete, five Deffkoptas, twelve artillery pieces, two Warbosses, a Painboy, a Mek on bike with basic KFF conversion, a Weirdboy, and a Battlewagon... all of which I can complete by the end of next week, if I didn't need to build and paint a diorama by then for a contest.

And, you know, typing all that out makes me realize how much bloody effort I've had to put into the army, setting aside other projects, and how tired I've gotten some nights, having to press through an aching back (lingering injury) and just getting so tired of painting. At least I could switch up unit colors for variation. Looking at my piled of Space Wolf sprues and boxes, I want to play games with them, but man, I am just so sick of painting right now, and jumping into a project that won't allow for as much variation and will take more effort on a model-by-model basis? Yikes! So, what, should I not play a game with them until such time as I can get them fully painted? Heck, that's how I test out armies to figure out what combos I like most so I know who goes to the front of the painting queue.

People want to enjoy the hobby their way. Sometimes their way doesn't involve painting. It doesn't mean they get less value out of it.

If it really bugs you that much, try to talk them into painting the models. Let them know it's not really that difficult, and there's some very basic techniques that will work just fine. (For example, some armies work fine just painting a set of basic colors on the parts of the model and then washing it all with Agrax Earthshade. Boom, instant shading, and it tones down metal, too!) Encourage them, give them advice, don't talk down to them. I've converted a few people this way. And when they do paint, no matter how it looks, continue to be encouraging. Some people just aren't able to paint well, and that's fine, they should never feel disheartened.

I get into painting ruts and sprees. I have also drastically improved my speed/efficiency when painting over the past few years. Unfortunately that means I have a large number of languishing painting projects to work on as well as staring at my fiance's mostly unpainted army. She paints when inspiration strikes but focuses on other hobbies rather than painting in any large amount.

Hopefully I can knock out some of my projects over the next few weeks as real life is settling down and I managed to kick out a big project of mine. Using the momentum. I really enjoy having my army as painted as possible because it's fun and it boosts my ego a bit, plus I love seeing what others have painted when they play. On the other hand, I don't judge those who don't paint. It's just unfortunate that we can't talk about a cool paint job they have while we play.

I make it a point to encourage those are painting or learning to paint regardless of skill level, better or worse than my own. It really helps when someone praises me so I try and pay it forward. I only offer advice when prompted, since unsolicited criticism can be a detractor. On the other hand, if someone doesn't seem interested, I don't push it. It's their army, so I feel like they can do what they please. I won't accept/refuse a game based on painted minis.

I do admit I get inspired when someone breaks out a nicely painted army for me to play against. It helps me get in the mindset to do so.

I think Psienesis nailed it: It's because you want to.

I have a lot of interest in playing 40K, but the idea of painting just bores me to tears. Hence Necrons.

for me cost of purchase is significantly less than cost of time to paint.

there was a time in the past where the cost of time was much less, and I had time to paint whole armies. I enjoy the painting aspect of the hobby, but often playing is more enjoyable. I used to paint with friends, which was fun as we would often argue about whether white or black primer was best. I like white because the colors come out better, they almost always love black because you can hide imperfections and the unpainted areas better.

I enjoy playing, chances are I will never again have a fully painted army as I now have 3 kids, work, wife. Just not going to happen short of paying a service to do it.

I prefer to play with a fully painted army but I enjoy playing the game a lot more than painting so I'm afraid most of my games have some unfinished models.

Effort put into hobby adds to it.
Printed chits on a table work too.
No paint does not equal no play.
They play because they can.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Why not just play xwing or hero clix? How do non painters justify their cost of purchase?

Exalted, agreed 100%. It's bad enough in warmachine when 90% of the models are unpainted (I'm one of the few in my local area with a fully painted army) - in 40K? the game is x10 more enjoyable painted.

I've refused to game with someone who has a poorly built/grey plastic horde of models. Unless they're new at the game/hobby - I have no interest in playing someone who doesn't care for one of the primary points of the hobby

Chits on a table don't work in 40K because of true line-of-sight.

Personally I'm of the opinion that unpainted models are terrible, and I refuse to play with or against them in most circumstances. One of the core tenets of our club is that we try to only play with painted armies whenever possible.

That said, I think it's actually pretty easy to understand why many folks show up to the table with grey hordes.

1) The initial attraction for many to 40k is the background and fluff, both things that don't need to be enjoyed via painting.

2) The points level at which most folks play often requires a poop-ton of miniatures. Many folks buy a bunch of minis to play the game and get overwhelmed at the idea of painting them all, or simply can't keep up with painting the figures as fast as they buy and assemble them.

3) The local scene in most places seems to provide almost ZERO incentive to field painted minis. There is no hostility against painted, but when almost everyone is fielding some unpainted minis, and many folks are playing armies that are almost all bare, there is no shared expectation that a person field a fully painted army.

4) GW pushes out new and stronger codicies constantly, so there is real impetus to be continually collecting new armies. Even someone who is working toward a fully painted army, the will be tempted by a new army as soon a they complete the army they have.

All this to say, that if GW doesn't care if you paint your armies…
… and your FLGS doesn't care if you paint your armies…
... and most likely your local gamers don't care...

...why would you?

The answer is that only folks who are madly in love with the beautiful spectacle of painted armies on the tabletop are going to be disciplined enough to field painted miniatures exclusively or primarily.

One last point that a friend raised to me. We have always been a bit shocked by how Warmachine seems to have even more unpainted minis than GW games (which have ALOT). It was explained to my friend that the current trend at this store was for someone starting a new faction to buy EVERY model at once and then begin experimenting with different combinations until they learn all the combinations that work well against different enemies. No wonder nothing gets painted when folks are buying entire lines of minis at once.

I don't get it when people field unpainted models time after time. Once or twice, fine, but I've played at my local store and some folks have had the same unpainted models for the past five months. For me the painting is a big part of the experience, and the more I do it the more I enjoy it. I binge painted 36 dwarf warriors in one night ahead of a gaming group day, it was awesome.

As for the "I don't have time" argument. If it's family that is taking up time, why not ask them to help you paint? I paint with my mom when I go home to visit. I either show her some of my already painted models or just explain, I'd like phylo blue as the base color, then use a light brown for skin, and gunmetal on the guns. Some of my best painted models were painted by my mom on those visits. It's a hell of a better shared experience than sitting around watching sitcoms.

Alcibiades wrote:
Chits on a table don't work in 40K because of true line-of-sight.

Sorry, did not explain my experience:
A guy printed pictures and pasted on hardboard cut-outs and put on cut dowel ends as bases so they were the proper size just don't take side shots!
Obviously a bit of work went into it but hard to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Was told it was the only way he could afford playing a bunch of grotesques.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do agree painting makes for a much better experience.

Yes, if you have the models for a while, why not pretty them up?

Better to leave bare plastic than do the matt black-prime, you cannot see a thing on them... you MUST paint them then.

I think the only part I take offense is when the models are not fully assembled or falling apart, it just shows you do not care about them at all.

I don't particularly enjoy painting, but I love having a fully painted army. The collector in me gets me to paint. Actually playing is my favorite though.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Why not just play xwing or hero clix? How do non painters justify their cost of purchase?

I had to have corneal transplants, so not being able to see well made me cringe to look at my work before i finally got the surgery. So for me it was just the physical difficulty of doing it well. I didn't want my stuff to look bad. My Tau were my first army and are painted anywhere from terribad to mediocre at best depending on which one youre looking at. So when I got future armies, I just was really really shifty on painting them.

My painting has gotten SO much better and now with the surgeries behind me, Im having a much easier time of it.

I think a lot of people would rather do it well or not at all and so they nd up with lots of unpainted stuff. I also hate painting alone and so if there's other people like me, who just dont find it to be fun when alone, then maybe thats also holding them back. could be.

 Stevefamine wrote:
I've refused to game with someone who has a poorly built/grey plastic horde of models. Unless they're new at the game/hobby - I have no interest in playing someone who doesn't care for one of the primary points of the hobby

And that's a totally reasonable stance to take. You're always free to refuse to play against someone who gets their enjoyment from the game differently to you.

It's when people start to try to hold their definition of 'fun' up as something that everyone should automatically aspire to that you start to have problems. Some people paint because they prefer to use painted models. Some people don't. Neither of those are more 'correct' than the other.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheSilo wrote:
I...and some folks have had the same unpainted models for the past five months.

Amateurs. I have unpainted models that are going on 20 years old now.

For me the painting is a big part of the experience, and the more I do it the more I enjoy it.

Good for you. And for what it's worth, I'm more or less the same... I much prefer playing with and against well-painted models.

But I've also come to accept that my personal preference doesn't amount to a whole hill of beans to someone who just wants to play the game... and some of my most enjoyable games over the years have been against unpainted or partially painted armies.


The fact that my hobby includes painting doesn't mean that the next guy's does.

It's the same thing if I asked: "Why some people like toast, but hate to eat its edges?"

There are different people, liking and hating different things.

I actually know a table-gaming friend who has no interest on painting, but the playing instead - so I paint the models for him. Sometimes I may even get something in return for it