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I began reading this thread on my phone the other day. I became so enraged I walked to the library to type a long and hateful rant but found the doors locked for the day....

That being said, I've had time to better form my opinion on the matter and now have a desk top infront of me.

I'll begin with a disclaimer...

I'm not trying to offend or flame here. I'm just voicing my opinion as a long time 40k player. 40K PLAYER! I'M TALKING ABOUT 40K ONLY HERE!!!!

I hate it when people don't paint their models. I see it as lazy and a waste of money. If you can't "find the time" to paint then you don't have time to play the game.

I have, over many years, collected several armies. I have painted most of them and sold those that I didn't get around to because I refuse to play with a gray army.

If you have any of the lame excusses, ie Family, School, Work, I'm no good at painting ect, you're full of it.

Family: I kinow plenty of people with families that find time to paint.

School: Classes aren't 24-7.

Work: Also, ain't 24-7. I have friends that work 70+ hours a week and still get models done.

No good: No one cares. As long as you try that's all that matters.

Ect: Stop being lazy.

It really doesn't take long to paint models. If you're trying to win a golden daemon with each model in your army than yeah... it'll take you a few years to finish.

But at least everytime you game you game you can show off the new unit you've been working on.

I can finish a 10 man squad of space marines in about 4.5 hours with all the bells and whistles. Sure they aren't as perfect as I'd like but those "Best Apperance" awards on the wall speak for themselves.

Simply put, I've put alot of time and money into THE HOBBY of warhammer 40k. I buy, build, convert, paint, play, read fluff, read black library and generally collect. I PLAY 40k.

if you buy models, build them and play. No painting of any effort.... You aren't into 40k. You're just another wargammer. Go buy a copy of risk. No painting needed.

Edit: If you are one of the people complaining that painting is stressful... unless you're painting for someone else and have a deadline... you're doing it wrong.

2nd Edit: The Eldrad in my avatar isn't quite finished but what you see there is about 30 minutes of effort. Thats a cup of coffee and a bit of reading or an episode of Adventure Time. You really can't make the sacrifice?

I just don't really enjoy painting mainly because I'm not good with my hands when it comes to painting small figures and I don't really find the activity fun.

@Deffdread.

I understand that some people hate playing against a non-painted army. In fact a while back somebody started a thread wondering why people hate playing against an unpainted army and I was the first to respond.

Not everyone enjoys painting. Not everyone enjoys assembling the models. I work 6 days a week. I get home and I have a few hours before I go to bed. During that time, I spend time with people who have no interest in Warhammer or other table top games, or I enjoy one of my many other hobbies. If I have the chance I go and play once or twice a week against people who do not need painted armies to immerse themselves in the game. Would they prefer a painted army? Most likely. However, they are there to play a game, and as long as there is someone to play against they are happy.

If somebody only has a few hours each week to devote to Warhammer, do you think they would rather play, or paint their models?

Well, clearly it would depend on the person.

People who paint are just as likely to have full time jobs, meaningful personal relationships and educational obligations as those who don't. We just tend to prioritize the hobby as a whole over one of its components.

 Las wrote:
Well, clearly it would depend on the person.

People who paint are just as likely to have full time jobs, meaningful personal relationships and educational obligations as those who don't. We just tend to prioritize the hobby as a whole over one of its components.

I'm confused. Are you saying that just playing and not painting is not prioritizing?

@DeffDred

Glad to know that having nerve damage making painting nigh impossible is a lame excuse and makes me lazy and I'm doing it wrong.

Get bent.

If I may make a suggestion to people who are strapped for time: Take your paints with you. Really, all you need to paint besides your materials is a source of water and a flat surface. You may not have much time to do it but all those short sessions add up. Only do this if the area you are in permits, of course.

 curran12 wrote:
@DeffDred

Glad to know that having nerve damage making painting nigh impossible is a lame excuse and makes me lazy and I'm doing it wrong.

Get bent.

Was that a personal attack? I never said you had to be a master. Spray on basecoat. Drybrush. Drybrush again. Wash.

3 colors and wysiwyg.

Get painting.

Hey, guess what?

I've had a shard of bone shred the nerves in my right arm. I cannot hold a brush still. Period. Drop the attitude.

 DeffDred wrote:

 Las wrote:
Well, clearly it would depend on the person.

People who paint are just as likely to have full time jobs, meaningful personal relationships and educational obligations as those who don't. We just tend to prioritize the hobby as a whole over one of its components.

I'm confused. Are you saying that just playing and not painting is not prioritizing?

Think of Warhammer 40K as being comprised of 3 parts. Assembling the models, painting the models, playing the game. Some people prioritize the various parts differently, which is why you'll have people who assemble the models and paint but don't play, and you have people who paint and play but don't assemble.

People who set aside time to do all three prioritize their time to investing in to the hobby as a whole, instead of say me, who invests most of my WH time playing, and occasionally assembly (I have about 4 unopenend boxes, plus quite a few sets that are partially assembled).

 curran12 wrote:
Hey, guess what?

I've had a shard of bone shred the nerves in my right arm. I cannot hold a brush still. Period. Drop the attitude.

Basing with a can of spray paint does not require accuracy.

Drybrushing is the opposite of holding a brush still.

Washing also requires no accuracy.

One of the Perry twins sculpts with one hand.

I fail to see the restrictions youre placing on yourself.

By the way, buddy. "Get bent" is a sign of additude not my enthusiasm for painting models.

 DeffDred wrote:
Ect: Stop being lazy.

Stop being elitist and imposing your own ideals on others.

But really, I'm sure there aren't too many people who genuinely can't find time if they wanted to. The problem is people don't WANT to find time to do it because they don't value it above other things in their lives. If someone has a spouse and kids and works long hours, I'm not going to judge them for wanting to spend what little free time they have painting instead of with their family or friends or doing something they genuinely enjoy doing instead of something they feel is a chore.

I can finish a 10 man squad of space marines in about 4.5 hours with all the bells and whistles. Sure they aren't as perfect as I'd like but those "Best Apperance" awards on the wall speak for themselves.

That's actually quite impressive. It would take me 4.5 hours just removing them from their sprues, cleaning mould lines, assembling, spraying the primer and basing them. The only models I can go from opening the box to finished model are snap fit models with very simple schemes and not a lot of small detail. My Space Wolves, even for a "meh" paintjob take me an hour to get from sprue to finished model, realistically I spend about 2 hours per model because I don't like my Space Wolves looking "meh", I'd rather have grey plastic.

The fastest models I paint which only take about half an hour each are Termagants, Imperial Guard, Orcs, Night Goblins all the snap fit varieties (the Night Goblins are 1 piece). Except I need a metric ton of those models to actually make an army.

I'm not saying you can't paint a squad of Space Marines in 4.5 hours... I'm just saying I doubt most people could, even to a reasonably low standard.

Simply put, I've put alot of time and money into THE HOBBY of warhammer 40k. I buy, build, convert, paint, play, read fluff, read black library and generally collect. I PLAY 40k.

if you buy models, build them and play. No painting of any effort.... You aren't into 40k. You're just another wargammer. Go buy a copy of risk. No painting needed.

Yeah, because it's not possible for someone to like some aspects of 40k and not other aspects

I guess people who only like reading the books "aren't into 40k".

I guess people who only like painting models and never play the game "aren't into 40k".

You must like all aspects of the hhhobby to be in to 40k!!! /sarcasm

Edit: If you are one of the people complaining that painting is stressful... unless you're painting for someone else and have a deadline... you're doing it wrong.

Yes, because what you enjoy, don't enjoy and find stressful is totally the same as what everyone else should enjoy, not enjoy and find stressful. Otherwise they're just doing it wrong! God forbid the world is made up of different people.

But really, I don't game with unpainted models (I also don't really game much any more and it takes me months to paint a unit). But I find people railing against unpainted models to be vastly more obnoxious than people who play with unpainted models.

Personally I'd much rather spend time with people in my spare time than spend it sitting by myself painting. I tried turning painting in to a social activity at my FLGS, didn't really work, I'd spend half the day there and only get 1 or 2 models painted and frequently I'd be stuck because I'd need to do something that I couldn't do in the shop.

 DeffDred wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Hey, guess what?

I've had a shard of bone shred the nerves in my right arm. I cannot hold a brush still. Period. Drop the attitude.

Basing with a can of spray paint does not require accuracy.

Drybrushing is the opposite of holding a brush still.

Washing also requires no accuracy.

One of the Perry twins sculpts with one hand.

I fail to see the restrictions youre placing on yourself.

Is it possible that trying to do detailed work (and I use the term detailed broadly), might possibly cause pain?

I could see how you can do uber quick marines. You can either prime black and drybrush leadbelcher or do the dip on a DA scheme.

I'll be as elitist as I want. God forbid iI have my own opinion. Don't you realize others may feel differently than you?

See what I did there.

Hey, I made a disclaimer. If youre mad thats your problem. I like painted models. Makes me feel like the time and effort I've spent is justified.

You want to pay a pile of cash to put things together and play with gray, little mens thats cool.

My little mens will just look better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Happyjew wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Hey, guess what?

I've had a shard of bone shred the nerves in my right arm. I cannot hold a brush still. Period. Drop the attitude.

Basing with a can of spray paint does not require accuracy.

Drybrushing is the opposite of holding a brush still.

Washing also requires no accuracy.

One of the Perry twins sculpts with one hand.

I fail to see the restrictions youre placing on yourself.

Is it possible that trying to do detailed work (and I use the term detailed broadly), might possibly cause pain?

I'm not talking about detail. I'm talking about NOT BEING GRAY PLASTIC!

I dont care if my opponent has black space marines with three colors worth of dots on the shoulder!

Spray 'em pink and then spray again with purple and blue. Done.

I dont need a masterpiece. I just want color.

 DeffDred wrote:
I'll be as elitist as I want. God forbid iI have my own opinion. Don't you realize others may feel differently than you?

The difference is I'm not imposing my opinions on others, you are.

Saying things like:

I hate it when people don't paint their models.

lame excusses

Ect: Stop being lazy.

You aren't into 40k. You're just another wargammer. Go buy a copy of risk. No painting needed.

you're doing it wrong.

Those go beyond just having an opinion and put you in the obnoxious pile. I find such attitudes far more obnoxious than unpainted models.

If YOU don't like playing with unpainted models that's fine for YOU and I'm not judging YOU for only wanting you play with painted models. If you think that's what I'm judging you for, you need to get yerself some reading comprehension.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeffDred wrote:
I'm not talking about detail. I'm talking about NOT BEING GRAY PLASTIC!

I dont care if my opponent has black space marines with three colors worth of dots on the shoulder!

Spray 'em pink and then spray again with purple and blue. Done.

I dont need a masterpiece. I just want color.

For me, the difference between playing against crappily rush job painted models and playing against grey plastic is very small. A model with sprayed primer and a couple of hastily slopped on colours only looks mildly better than unpainted plastic, I'd rather they take their time painting their army and play with grey plastic for however long it takes them to paint them to the quality they see fit.

You mentioned earlier you think not painting models is a waste of money... I'd argue crappily painted models is an equally big waste of money in addition to being a waste of time.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Why not just play xwing or hero clix? How do non painters justify their cost of purchase?

I have been playing since rogue trader and own 13 fully painted armies , I don't like painting and I play because I love the universe and the game .

Why is it such a big deal that your opponent plays with painted minis? Does the model have the right base size? THAT matters. Is the model the right approximate size for LOS? THAT matters. I've played against a person who scratchbuilds all his IG vehicles and has use buttons for wheels. Buttons! Like, from a shirt! But his models were all roughly the size they needed to be and he wasn't a jerk.

Conversely, I couldn't see wanting to play with someone who has the same attitude as DeffDred because the game would probably be a miserable experience. Ugh, I can picture how nitpicky and shrill. Gross.

If you can't "find the time" to paint then you don't have time to play the game.

This - what does this even mean? The two activities aren't even equivalent. It's like saying "if you can't 'find the time' for artisinal breadmaking then you don't have time to ride a dirtbike."

I'd argue crappily painted models is an equally big waste of money in addition to being a waste of time.

"Three colors" technically means it can look like a toddler blobbed on paint without paying attention where it goes or what it covers. That's much worse than clean grey plastic. Not that I'd discriminate, if the person is cool I'll still play against those models, but it's much more of an eyesore.

 Multimoog wrote:
Why is it such a big deal that your opponent plays with painted minis? Does the model have the right base size? THAT matters. Is the model the right approximate size for LOS? THAT matters. I've played against a person who scratchbuilds all his IG vehicles and has use buttons for wheels. Buttons! Like, from a shirt! But his models were all roughly the size they needed to be and he wasn't a jerk.

Conversely, I couldn't see wanting to play with someone who has the same attitude as DeffDred because the game would probably be a miserable experience. Ugh, I can picture how nitpicky and shrill. Gross.

If you can't "find the time" to paint then you don't have time to play the game.

This - what does this even mean? The two activities aren't even equivalent. It's like saying "if you can't 'find the time' for artisinal breadmaking then you don't have time to ride a dirtbike."

I'd argue crappily painted models is an equally big waste of money in addition to being a waste of time.

"Three colors" technically means it can look like a toddler blobbed on paint without paying attention where it goes or what it covers. That's much worse than clean grey plastic. Not that I'd discriminate, if the person is cool I'll still play against those models, but it's much more of an eyesore.

The only thing that kind of annoys me playing against an unpainted army is because there's no contrast sometimes it's hard to see what things are. The difference between a Wolf Guard unit, a Grey Hunter unit and a Blood Claw unit can be hard to see if they're not painted with different markings.

Of course, that applies to poorly painted miniatures as well and also to well painted armies where they painter has decided to paint in such a way that you can't tell things apart.

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Some people like the game play and balance more than painting,

 Happyjew wrote:


Think of Warhammer 40K as being comprised of 3 parts. Assembling the models, painting the models, playing the game. Some people prioritize the various parts differently, which is why you'll have people who assemble the models and paint but don't play, and you have people who paint and play but don't assemble.

People who set aside time to do all three prioritize their time to investing in to the hobby as a whole, instead of say me, who invests most of my WH time playing, and occasionally assembly (I have about 4 unopenend boxes, plus quite a few sets that are partially assembled).

I would say that you have indirectly put your finger on the problem with the Warhammer/40k/Warmachine hobbies in their relationship to the wargaming hobby as a whole. Only (mostly only) in those three sub-hobbies do people separate the three parts (some would add the fourth part of fluff and research) so far from one another that it is seen as acceptable practice to completely neglect the painting part. You certainly don't see that in historical miniaiture wargaming, and it wasn't even as much present in sci-fantasy wargaming until this last decade or so.

I completely understand the emphasizing and enjoying of one aspect over others, but it's a sad state of affairs when the WH/40k/WM tables are compared to the rest of the hobby.

If some random guy sitting across from me at my FLGS get's his panties in a wad over my grey marines, then that's his problem. I don't care what they think and neither should anyone else, it's a hobby, done for fun. External influences outside funds, people's opinions, and other extraneous crap not related to said hobby doesn't matter (of course this has to be within reason; selling ones body or family for money to feed the habit, murdering people over plastic soldiers, etc.). No one said you had to play against me, in fact the only thing I require when playing against someone is that they're a good sport.

That all being said, it's a pretty rewarding sort of feeling when you field a painted army against another painted army. That 'forged' narrative really takes off when you have variously painted armies murdering each other.

 curran12 wrote:
@DeffDred

Glad to know that having nerve damage making painting nigh impossible is a lame excuse and makes me lazy and I'm doing it wrong.

Get bent.

While I cannot speak for other people, I can say that I would never, ever suggest something like that. I also think that the poster you are referencing probably didn't intend to infer that either.

Edit: upon reading his response to you, yeah that's a bummer thing to say to someone.

Some of the best players I know play grey armies (grarmies?). I love painting my guys, especially washing them, it makes them look so damn crisp and gives me the warm fuzzies inside. That being said, you wanna run your grarmies against me? BRING IT ON!

The point of the game is FUN. Whether that is painting or playing, or mixing both, do what makes you happy. Don't harp on others if they're not harping on you.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Some of the best players I know play grey armies (grarmies?). I love painting my guys, especially washing them, it makes them look so damn crisp and gives me the warm fuzzies inside. That being said, you wanna run your grarmies against me? BRING IT ON!

The point of the game is FUN. Whether that is painting or playing, or mixing both, do what makes you happy. Don't harp on others if they're not harping on you.

Basically this. /thread

Also, I wasn't aware that the OP is like the sixth type of thread he's posted, I want the three minutes back it took my to write my post.

 Eilif wrote:
...the problem...

I don't see why it's a problem. 40k, WHFB, Warmachine, they are more mainstream. They attract people who are interested in any aspects of the hobby, not just people who are interested in the entirety of the hobby***. I don't see this as a problem or as a bad thing. It's a price you pay for having a larger group of people interested in something, not everyone will like the same aspects of that something.


***though I admit plenty of historics people are only interested in the modelling and not the gaming. I don't see those people as a problem for never bringing their awesomely painted models to a gaming table any more than I see it as a problem the people who bring unpainted models to the table.

 Frankenberry wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Some of the best players I know play grey armies (grarmies?). I love painting my guys, especially washing them, it makes them look so damn crisp and gives me the warm fuzzies inside. That being said, you wanna run your grarmies against me? BRING IT ON!

The point of the game is FUN. Whether that is painting or playing, or mixing both, do what makes you happy. Don't harp on others if they're not harping on you.

Basically this. /thread

Also, I wasn't aware that the OP is like the sixth type of thread he's posted, I want the three minutes back it took my to write my post.

People keep saying that Daly posts these threads, but they keep answering him!

Honestly, I don't find the actual game itself to be worth all the effort and money to play by itself. Most of the fun for me is in working on my models, painting them up really nice, then letting them loose on the tabletop. I'll run a squad of greys right next to them, though. I let how something works on the tabletop affect how I convert and paint the paint things in the future, as well, though. I also will work on units simply due to their fluff. That said I have units that are extremely fun to convert and paint that are just not very good on the tabletop. I definitely am not in the game just to win, though. I've only won two matches in the last few years, lol. There's plenty of video games that offer much deeper experiences as far as gameplay goes, though. I just think it's nice to have a game to play with all of my models once they're done instead of working on model planes or something that just sit on the shelf forever. Some things just feel way more worthy of a nice paintjob than others. Besides, if you're a tournament player, you'll wind up having to paint your models eventually anyway. A lot of people started when a gaming store opened in my area, and a few years ago all you ever played were grey or metal models. Now most everyone has at least the 3 color minimum on everything. It does make them a lot more attractive to play against, though, and it definitely feels better to lose to a model that's somebody's pride and joy than yet another grey plastic force. I think the hobby and the game are just different sides of the same coin, and if you are running everything unpainted just to play the game, you really are not getting your money out of your purchases.

 DeffDred wrote:
I began reading this thread on my phone the other day. I became so enraged I walked to the library to type a long and hateful rant but found the doors locked for the day....

That being said, I've had time to better form my opinion on the matter and now have a desk top infront of me.

I'll begin with a disclaimer...

I'm not trying to offend or flame here. I'm just voicing my opinion as a long time 40k player. 40K PLAYER! I'M TALKING ABOUT 40K ONLY HERE!!!!

I hate it when people don't paint their models. I see it as lazy and a waste of money. If you can't "find the time" to paint then you don't have time to play the game.

I have, over many years, collected several armies. I have painted most of them and sold those that I didn't get around to because I refuse to play with a gray army.

If you have any of the lame excusses, ie Family, School, Work, I'm no good at painting ect, you're full of it.

Family: I kinow plenty of people with families that find time to paint.

School: Classes aren't 24-7.

Work: Also, ain't 24-7. I have friends that work 70+ hours a week and still get models done.

No good: No one cares. As long as you try that's all that matters.

Ect: Stop being lazy.

It really doesn't take long to paint models. If you're trying to win a golden daemon with each model in your army than yeah... it'll take you a few years to finish.

But at least everytime you game you game you can show off the new unit you've been working on.

I can finish a 10 man squad of space marines in about 4.5 hours with all the bells and whistles. Sure they aren't as perfect as I'd like but those "Best Apperance" awards on the wall speak for themselves.

Simply put, I've put alot of time and money into THE HOBBY of warhammer 40k. I buy, build, convert, paint, play, read fluff, read black library and generally collect. I PLAY 40k.

if you buy models, build them and play. No painting of any effort.... You aren't into 40k. You're just another wargammer. Go buy a copy of risk. No painting needed.

Edit: If you are one of the people complaining that painting is stressful... unless you're painting for someone else and have a deadline... you're doing it wrong.

2nd Edit: The Eldrad in my avatar isn't quite finished but what you see there is about 30 minutes of effort. Thats a cup of coffee and a bit of reading or an episode of Adventure Time. You really can't make the sacrifice?

Isn't that like telling people without their own computer and home internet. That they are lazy becouse they don't work hard enough to own a computer and pay for internet. So shouldn't post online becouse they don't care enough to do it right.