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Thanks for the update. Looks like I may be able to get some Starfinder minis cheap if I debase myself by giving Prodos/Archon some money.

Like I said elsewhere, Archon could pull in a bit of goodwill if they are willing to let backers get this stuff at a reasonable cost. Would certainly help with their plastics coming.

I'd be down for a few more models. I've liked all the board games they've done under their Archon label.

Still want that Noh Possessed Twilight Knight... but I don't think it was even sculpted.

They'd get even more goodwill if they completed AVP fulfillment. Regardless if some AVP backers are still screwed, hopefully that won't be the case with SDE and Starfinder customers.

Well, this looks to be the end of SP/ND/Etc.

Ya, I don't see how they recover from this.

Hope something positive comes out of this for backers and if there's some decent prices on Relic Knights 2 I might pick some up.

There is a ticking clock. Archon has to evaluate and pay the VAT, corporation and income tax quarterly... So Archon needs this inventory to be 'gone' in the next month one way or another.

I didn't really follow the ongoing development of the SDE 2.0/Legends rules (or whatever the hell they were calling it) - there seemed to be a pretty extensive public beta for a while, at least. Did the rules end up in a semi-decent place?

It would be nice if we could get a finalized version of those (with or without the promised campaign material), even if we aren't going to get, you know, any of the actual physical stuff we paid for.

If SP sells off the IP, I assume all the existing work would be included in that deal, so anything in-progress probably wouldn't be released. You'd need a fed up employee leaking stuff, which isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Going another way, was there ever a community-made set of rules? With all the work people do for Inq28 and Necro, you'd think there would be something.

Looking at it from a business standpoint, Archon is likely happy to sell the entire lot at cost with freight as a passthrough. I think they give SPM until the end of the month (Feb 28) before they move into liquidation of the stock in March.

Paizo or some angel might come in, to give SPM a reprieve, but I doubt it. They won't simply pay the next quarter's storage costs, because that's just spending money for nothing.

If the stock goes into liquidation, I suspect Archon would have the right to sell them on the open market before tossing them into the trash, so they absolutely could eBay them. That announcement probably happens days into March, and closes March 20th or so, so they have time to pack and ship, an then liquidate any unsold inventory.

Possibly, Paizo could buy the (Starfinder) stock during liquidation, which would probably be the best case scenario. Starfinder minis have some value.

The Relic Knights and other stuff is dead weight, as MMI and the other distributors have been clearancing SDE and RK for a while. Worthless to a business, even if it's valuable to some players. If Archon doesn't sell it direct during liquidation, it's gone forever.

This leaves SPM high and dry, with nothing to sell and nothing to deliver. Final nail in the coffin, as they'd have to produce any new product for cash, prepaid upfront. Nobody will take the risk of fronting for terms.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
Going another way, was there ever a community-made set of rules? With all the work people do for Inq28 and Necro, you'd think there would be something.

There are multiple alternate rulesets out there.

I wrote Shadow Delve essentials as a fast(er)-playing streamlined version of SDE "classic". It's available as a variant on BGG.

There's another guy who wrote Lootmeter, but he has no fething clue what he's doing, so he's been constantly band-aiding things, adding rules to fix other rules, not understanding that he's trying to build a stone tower on quicksand. It's basically gak, and better to play Original SDE rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ubik2000 wrote:
I didn't really follow the ongoing development of the SDE 2.0/Legends rules (or whatever the hell they were calling it) - there seemed to be a pretty extensive public beta for a while, at least. Did the rules end up in a semi-decent place?

The "final" version of the rules are playable, if you like being led by your nose through the adventure. There is a turn tracker that drives the pace of the game. It's a mechanical way of preventing stalling (by either side), but at the cost of zero emergent gameplay. The flip side is that there's no advantage for doing well or poorly. The mini-Boss always apperars, right on schedule, as does the Dungeon Boss. Balance is a disaster, as it's still a lootfest. It takes *forever* for the Consul to kill the Heroes due to a massive number of Princess Coins given to the players.

Guess we will know more next week. From facebook :

Drew Olds If it is possible for you to sell the miniatures off as generic science fiction pieces and such, is it possible for you to find a way to make deals with backers?

Jarek Ewertowski Drew Olds As stated above, yes, however, we kinda need to get Paizo on the same boat, just in case. More info about this next week.

Maybe Miniaturemarket will buy a bucketload of stuff like they did from Palladium, they need something for the next Black Friday sale.

 Theophony wrote:
Maybe Miniaturemarket will buy a bucketload of stuff like they did from Palladium, they need something for the next Black Friday sale.

Unlikely, as they're already clearancing SPM/ND product in hand.

And it's not like MMI bit on the mountain of unsold Robotech product that Palladium had been holding up until their license was pulled for non-payment.

From Facebook

JSC on FB just now: "Hey everyone<

We said we'd keep you in the loop -

To date - we have a draft together for our

We are wrapping up some financial details that take a bit of stripping out so its digestible and accurate - and we plan on giving our partners a day or so to absorb the things.

So,

We will have our update out the door tomorrow for partners of Ninja, and then if it's okay, I'd like to up the schedule to Monday - expected delivery from us with updates on status of KS projects."

Not sure how you can strip stuff out of the financials and still give an accurate reflection of the company’s position - what will they try and hide? I’ll believe there’s an update coming when it’s posted very easy to turn around on Monday and blame a creditor for delays or withholding it.

Soda Pop minis is still listed on the Adepticon sponsors page. Wonder how they'll deal with this at a con?

 Lorek wrote:
Soda Pop minis is still listed on the Adepticon sponsors page. Wonder how they'll deal with this at a con?

Things like this have happened at cons before. Sometimes they're a no show that gets swept under the rug during the event itself. Sometimes they show up and people scoff at the nerve and a few people take some poor volunteers to task on the matter. With SPM I could see it going either way.

I'd think that, given the state of their finances, they're just going to not show up.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'd think that, given the state of their finances, they're just going to not show up.

This would be the safe bet, but when it comes to SPM, I've learned financial obligations and practical use of funds don't always align.

Since they're listed as a sponsor they've probably paid out a bunch already,

so assuming they have product to sell (which might not be the case since warehouse space costs money stuff like Doomseekers may be going direct from factory to distributors) showing up and sleeping in the truck might be worth doing simply to generate some cash which can be used to pay for things (which product can't do)

I'm picturing a rusted pickup truck with SPM HQ spray painted on the side...

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Since they're listed as a sponsor they've probably paid out a bunch already,

so assuming they have product to sell (which might not be the case since warehouse space costs money stuff like Doomseekers may be going direct from factory to distributors) showing up and sleeping in the truck might be worth doing simply to generate some cash which can be used to pay for things (which product can't do)

Maybe they could still bunk with Palladium, or has that ship fully sailed?

Official update from SP/ND. TL;DR: We suck.

Breaking Radio Silence

February 18, 2019

Boise, ID
Ninja Division Backer Update
Overview

The purpose of this update is to provide both our fans and partners with an update on Ninja Division’s current company status, the status of our outstanding projects, and restate our commitment to the continuation of our popular brands.
Operations

Staff

It broke our hearts to let the majority of our incredible staff go at the end of 2018. Their determination in the face of company adversity and their passion for our products kept us going. We look forward to seeing what they do next. Ninja Division is currently staffed by its three owners (who are off salary) and a sales manager who continue to work towards the successful reorganization of Ninja Division and pursue Kickstarter fulfillment options.

Communication

With staff layoffs, we are unable to individually respond to all email and social media posts we receive, and our time is best spent pursuing all available options for the continuance of the brands we all love.

External Partnerships - Licensors

Ninja Division would like to request that backers from all of our outstanding projects direct your questions and inquiries to us. We understand we have not been able to maintain communications with the regularity or presence that communities and projects like this desire, and that we have limited availability while we work on solutions, but the ownership of these projects lies with us. Our outside partners are not able to service refunds, returns, or ship your product.
Kickstarter Updates

Super Dungeon

As part of the ongoing development process for Super Dungeon and to satisfy both company and backer expectations of quality, the Super Dungeon Kickstarter project was restructured as below:

The 2nd Edition product which was intended to be a single boxed game with only incremental changes would need to be broken out into three distinct products: Super Dungeon Explore, Super Dungeon Arcade, Super Dungeon Pet Parade.
The Super Dungeon Legends expansion could not meet quality expectations as an expansion and was turned into a standalone product. Requiring significant additional development.
The smaller single expansions would all require redevelopment to be useable with the new changes to the game for the above products.

This restructuring of the project increased development time, development costs, manufacturing costs, and future shipping costs.

Super Dungeon then suffered an additional delay in March 2017 when the lead designer for Super Dungeon developed health problems which cut work availability for over six months. To soften the impact, Ninja Division hired a new lead designer in August of 2017 to help continue Super Dungeon’s development.

As of now, Super Dungeon is 95% complete and production ready, requiring only finalization and layout of the Legends core game.

Relic Knights

The Relic Knights 2nd Edition core rules are completely developed. The 2nd Edition Starter Set has been manufactured. However, Ninja Division does not currently have the funds to finish assembly and purchase the finalized product from the manufacturer.

The 2nd Edition Rulebook and Darkspace Calamity Upgrade deck are laid out and ready for production. The Void Break sourcebook has had unit profiles written in preparation of playtesting. Fiction and art were in advanced stages before the company’s status required development to be paused. All sculpts, including non-Kickstarter Void Break units, are sculpted and ready for production with the exception of Relic Knight Zineda.

Starfinder Masterclass

The masterclass project is highly technical, using a proprietary manufacturing technology from our manufacturing partners. Difficulties and delays in getting a quality product and re-engineering of sculpting to meet these demands delayed the initial waves of releases.

These difficulties and delays, in part with stretched company finances, led to us to pause manufacturing to find a solution to meet the financial obligation to release more miniatures. To date, Ninja Division has manufactured and delivered over 28,000 miniatures to backers but has a great many more to complete. All sculpts are fully re-engineered and ready for production.

Way of the Fighter

All game specific products for Way of the Fighter have been fulfilled. Only models, which are not required for gameplay, are outstanding. Production of all non-Super Dungeon crossover miniatures is 50% complete. All remaining sculpts are complete and ready for production.

Financial Disclosure

The Cost Overrun chart below illustrates the revenue collected by Ninja Division through crowdsourced funding, the costs Ninja Division has spent to date, and the total costs required for completion of the entire project through to delivery.



Spend by Project

Below is break down of how funds were spent towards the creation of each project over the course of its current development lifecycle.








Total Fees: Includes fees charged by Kickstarter and the merchant account processor.

Project Development: This includes staff and contractor costs for art, sculpting, writing, graphic design, etc.

Overhead Payroll: Includes payroll for management, marketing, sales, and operations staff.

Overhead Expenses: Includes facilities leasing, marketing costs, office supplies, etc.

Royalties: Royalties paid to licensors and/or developers.

Production: Includes tooling and production costs for KS rewards.

Fulfillment: Includes freight shipping and order handling.

Questions and Answers

Over the past months, we have received many questions and want to provide answers to the most common ones we hear that were not addressed above.

Q: What is the relationship between Soda Pop Miniatures and Ninja Division Publishing?

Soda Pop Miniatures is an IP Holding Company that owns the Super Dungeon, Relic Knights, and Takoashi University brands. Soda Pop granted Ninja Division Publishing license rights to develop and publish tabletop games for these brands and use its mark in relation to relevant marketing and social outreach.

Q: Why did you start new Kickstarters before completing outstanding projects?

As studio personnel became free they needed to be moved to new projects. At the time, while projects had been delayed development was still moving at a satisfactory pace and current budgets and projections showed that the new projects were achievable.

Q: Why did you publish other games before completing outstanding projects?

Ninja Division’s portfolio is a mix of internally developed crowdsourced products, internally developed self-funded products, and published 3rd party products in order to have a robust catalog to keep the company moving forward and growing. Development on these products starts months or years ahead of release and by independent teams, thus they were in development prior to and alongside crowdsourced products. Games that had been in development were released as planned.

Q: Is Ninja Division bankrupt/out of business?

No. Ninja Division continues to operate and pursue all available avenues to continue all our brands and provide backers with their rewards.

Q: Will I receive my rewards?

We have not given up. Every day we work towards the goal of delivering backers rewards and the revitalization of the brands and products we have spent a decade creating.

Q: Is there anything backers can do to help?

We respect and thank the fans and hopeful backers who have stepped into the gaps of communication, kept an open mind and worked with us to tamp out wild speculation and overly negative and inappropriate threats and hostility. We are all in the same place as you, eager to see a solution, and eager to find a way forward.

Continue to play! We have provided access to PDF and digital content for players to play games using your existing collections from some of our key Kickstarters. A healthy understanding of our current rules, some in-house gaming, and a little time with your clubs and game stores goes a long way to foster interest and support while we work to get things moving.
Looking Ahead

Despite our current difficulties, Ninja Division continues to doggedly pursue any and all avenues we can to get products to backers and bring new products to market featuring the brands our customers love. To that end, we are currently working under consultation to reorganize Ninja Division in order to better position it for success and secure investment.

As we proceed with our reorganization we have had partners and fans with operational, business, and financial acumen help us tremendously. If you have a professional skill set and passion in those areas, we would encourage you to reach out as we are working across various stages of consultation to repair components of our operation. As a bicameral entity, our business has sometimes been separated from our creative skill sets, and this realization makes us not too proud to seek professional assistance to ensure a stable and positive growth into the future.

Once we have concrete information regarding the company, new production, and fulfillment we will post another update. We thank you for taking the time to read through this lengthy announcement, as well as your continued patience.

Go Ninja Go!

Good to have the info,

sad to see the state of the relic knights and SDEL are worse that i'd hoped financially,

and I guess Prodos/Archon unicast isn't as easy to design minis for as was made out (which would also explain why some of the starfinder stuff delivered was poor quality, the process just couldn't handle those particular sculpts as they were)

Interestingly, at least for the RK2 graph, they're asserting the pledge manager brought in next to 0 additional funds, which is a little hard to believe.

Is it?, people were grumbling about SDEL already so the PM uptake may not have been huge

or it may be more likely that since they talk about the breakdowns being of money taken by crowdsource funding that any extras from the PM (not crowdfunding) isn't included

Those are some big numbers just to finish off all of those. Well over a million dollars more is needed to deliver everything based off of the charts. That's not chump change yet they make it sound like things will still be delivered soon.

Also love how they're glossing over SPM being owned by the same people and them just paying royalties to themselves but I don't think there are many people that don't realize that so it just makes them look worse.

They seem to be posting the same update across all their delinquent projects. In the Starfinder comments, one backer pointed out this interesting tidbit.

Ken Marable just now

Your cost overruns chart is inaccurate. I just checked my Game On Tabletop account to try to remember what I pledged, and it states that you collected an additional $190,000 there to put you just shy of $640,000 collected for the Starfinder Masterclass project, not the less than $500,000 shown in the chart, and which would put you at more revenue than costs to date for at least this project, but obviously deeply in debt considering other projects.

If true and he can actually see how much was raised (and not fulfilled in full obviously) after the kickstarter campaign ended, it seems that Ninja Division/Soda Pop have the same self serving and dishonest accounting practices as their former partners Palladium when they too "forgot" to include their post-crowdfunding and retail sales for the products that backers funded in their entirety in their financial calculations.

Wow, pretty sleazy if true.

 warboss wrote:
They seem to be posting the same update across all their delinquent projects. In the Starfinder comments, one backer pointed out this interesting tidbit.

Ken Marable just now

Your cost overruns chart is inaccurate. I just checked my Game On Tabletop account to try to remember what I pledged, and it states that you collected an additional $190,000 there to put you just shy of $640,000 collected for the Starfinder Masterclass project, not the less than $500,000 shown in the chart, and which would put you at more revenue than costs to date for at least this project, but obviously deeply in debt considering other projects.

If true and he can actually see how much was raised (and not fulfilled in full obviously) after the kickstarter campaign ended, it seems that Ninja Division/Soda Pop have the same self serving and dishonest accounting practices as their former partners Palladium when they too "forgot" to include their post-crowdfunding and retail sales for the products that backers funded in their entirety in their financial calculations.

in that case it's certain what I speculated above based on the quote in the statement: the breakdowns being of money taken by crowdsource funding that any extras from the PM (not crowdfunding) isn't included,

so you can basically boost all the graphs collected income, revenue spent and cost to deliver by whatever the PMs took, the pie charts are probably still valid though

Edit: money taken in PM is also much more protected so more likely to have been returned as refunds or clawed back by CC/Banks etc

Except increased PM revenue doesn't result in the same percentage increase in costs, especially since they've called out "Development" as their major cost. Additional PM funds should result in virtually no increase in Development costs.

I'd disagree there since development isn't finished its not going to be a fixed cost but an ever increasing one so I think the proportions will hold up

no whether their spend on it (or anything else) was sensible or even reasonable that's a different matter