Soda Pop Miniatures / Ninja Division, (Web store back up, Masterclass resins available again)

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**Sarouan**

What I would like to know is how exactly they believe to "fill" the gap needed to deliver everything from the Kickstarters. Are they still selling stuff through their ND website ?

**JohnHwangDD**

Monkeysloth wrote:
Those are some big numbers just to finish off all of those. Well over a million dollars more is needed to deliver everything based off of the charts.

That's not chump change yet they make it sound like things will still be delivered soon.

Also love how they're glossing over SPM being owned by the same people and them just paying royalties to themselves but I don't think there are many people that don't realize that so it just makes them look worse.

Yup. Looks like they need at least $1.2M to finish all 4 KS, but it looks like $50k would easily be enough to finish WotF, which has been in limbo for a while.

Soon. Except they have no money to deliver what's already been produced, to say nothing of the things that are yet to be made.

Yeah, there's a lot of double-dealing going on there, like ignoring post-KS Pledge Manager and Store Sales revenue, etc.

**warboss**

Why do I get the feeling that if some angel investor suddenly came into the picture and game them $50k without any strings attached (aka like the money they've collected on kickstarter) that the money would be used for other things... Just a hunch on my part...

**JohnHwangDD**

warboss wrote:
Why do I get the feeling that if some angel investor suddenly came into the picture and game them $50k without any strings attached (aka like the money they've collected on kickstarter) that the money would be used for other things... Just a hunch on my part...

So we're imagining that there's an angel investor for WotF who'd just give them the $50k to deliver the remaining WotF stuff?

Pretending that such a person exists, no, I don't see things going any different from the way they've gone so far. Past performance is no guarantee of future returns, but their history of repeatedly squandering cash strongly suggests they'd continue to do the same.

**Monkeysloth**

I'm almost certain the reason every potential investor/buyer they've had just walks away laughing after looking at their financials. They had a lot of bills to pay just in the salary end, lets not even getting to licensing costs and marketing expenditures like con space, and didn't set their goals correctly or didn't want to live like other game makers and just not pay people well.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Nah, not WoTF, even if it is the cheapest to finish, the game there is done and out, the minis are just bling (and bling that those that wanted largely paid for via the KS)

the one they need to pump money into is going to be starfinder as if that can be completed they'll have minis to sell and a market (even if it is a small one) that wants them especially as a lot of them are fairly unique

**JohnHwangDD**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Nah, not WoTF, even if it is the cheapest to finish,

Sure, but the point is that they don't have $50k on hand to finish WotF, much less the $500k needed for Archon to release SF & RK2 product

**parakuribo**

I know I shouldn't judge them at this point, but those comments about licences. It's like they haven't heard of Pokemon(Nintendo) or Sunrise(Namco Bandai).

Nevertheless, like I said before on BGG, I sincerely hope this matter is settled, and the backers get their rewards. Also, like before, while I believe messing up with the mismanagement of the Kickstarters was no excuse, I also believe this would never have been this bad if most of the backers who pulled out thought they were pre-ordering something(Which is now true. Thanks again, Monolith).

P.S. Before I get bombarded, I have backed and received both versions of Way of The Fighter, and I am now waiting for my Stygian Depths stuff to arrive.

**Monkeysloth**

Nintendo is only a co-owner in the pokemon company. There's also a difference between that and SPM creating ND and licensing to themselves when they don't actually make enough money to pay their own bills.

Having a holding company that you own for one of your products is find if that product/ip is big enough that other people would actually want to license your IP. Doing it when you're small and under budget constraints is shady.

**Bossk_Hogg**

parakuribo wrote:

Nevertheless, like I said before on BGG, I sincerely hope this matter is settled, and the backers get their rewards. Also, like before, while I believe messing up with the mismanagement of the Kickstarters was no excuse, I also believe this would never have been this bad if most of the backers who pulled out thought they were pre-ordering something(Which is now true. Thanks again, Monolith).

Nice word salad of excuses. Also, what exactly did Monoloth do? Aside from deliver on their KS well and more or less on time?

Maybe cut the booth babe budget next time instead ND/SPM?

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Monolith paid for and manufactured Claustrophobia prior to their KS so it really was just a pre-order with no extras or chance of backers influencing the game in any way (selling just over 70% of the units available, so probably in profit but not by a huge amount))

**Sarouan**

Meanwhile, a reminder that spreading lies or mindless attacks on random people you "feel" are linked to SPM/ND can have backlash, and that there is indeed a problem with some people out there in the community...

From facebook, Questron

This is an official statement from Questron...

Due to recent circumstances not related with us in any form, Questron is in the need to left a few things clear.

Questron is not Sodapop / Ninja Division. Questron is not a subsidiary of Sodapop / Ninja Division. Questron is a spanish (as you may note by my english) Sculpt Studio sited in Madrid. We started to work in this industry eight years ago, first for Impact Miniatures, then for... Modiphious, and with the time, Mantic, Level 99, and a lot others, and yes, Sodapop / Ninja Division. That was a long term work relationship, in wich we made friends (I consider John Cadice a friend), and we made really cool sculpts, and we were well payed and in time (rare thing in this biz)

This declaration is needed, because we don't want to, due to this work relationship, make the public believe that we are SD/ND, and, due to some circumnstances we all know and doesn't need to be repeated, believe we are involved in the sutation SD/ND is passing. We have worked for them, we did A TON of miniatures for Relic Knights and SDE, but that's all our relation with them. Freelancing.

Maybe this statement would sound like "St Peter denying Jesus", but it's not that... As I said, John is a friend, and SD/ND is a company that treated all his workers (freelancers included) by the BEST way. I can't blame to Sodapop about nothing, only good feelings and all my support to them. In fact, I seize this writing to ask you guys to give them the chance to fix the thing, I'm 150% sure they are the firsts that want to see our work in the store shelves...

But some of the projects we are collaborating and workng on right now are receiving bad feedback just because we, Questron, are working on them... and that's not fair for some of the developers that trust in our skills... just because people believes we are SD/ND .. WE ARE NOT. We were freelancing for them during the sculpt stage of their projects for... 4, 5 years? (we've worked on SDE; Relic Knights, WoF, and many others) Meanwhile at the same time we attended Mantic (in many projects, from The Walking Dead, to Vanguard) and a lot of other developers...

I hope this clearafies someway one "uncomfortable" situation for everyone... Situation that I KNOW John and all the people from SD/ND are working hard to resolve.

Sorry for my crappy english!

Saludos,

Daniel

And here is the link where it's coming : https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2092994/idw-partners-ninja-division?fbclid=IwAR2XwrwF-RuOs7LDPDIH9e1YNbdHlab0hZmyuMRm2EIBf5ydFiub-_f3YqQ

Remember, guys, what you're doing can also be considered a crime, no matter how "justified" you feel you are...Would be good if some huge load of ice was thrown in some people's pants as well. Anger leads to the Dark Side, 'fter all.

**JohnHwangDD**

Note that it is not a lie or an attack to say that you will boycott a company because of their partnerships. It's how we broke Apartheid.

It is entirely reasonable for Customer to say - we will boycott your products and highlight your bad partnership until such time that you publicly disavow your previous work with them and pledge never to do business with them in the future.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that sort of thing, and if fact, it is desirable to create external consequences in order punish companies that customers cannot otherwise affect.

**Norchack**

Sarouan wrote:

Remember, guys, what you're doing can also be considered a crime, no matter how "justified" you feel you are...Would be good if some huge load of ice was thrown in some people's pants as well. Anger leads to the Dark Side, 'fter all.

I assume you're referring to laws concerning libel and defamation. Those vary greatly from country to country. Here in the US, I believe one has to maliciously spread information they know, or have reason to know, is untrue in order for that individual to run afoul of the law. That said, I'm not an attorney, so what do I know.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Note that it is not a lie or an attack to say that you will boycott a company because of their partnerships. It's how we broke Apartheid.

You broke apartheid? That's an impressive accomplishment. What role did you play?

**Sarouan**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Note that it is not a lie or an attack to say that you will boycott a company because of their partnerships. It's how we broke Apartheid.

It is entirely reasonable for Customer to say - we will boycott your products and highlight your bad partnership until such time that you publicly disavow your previous work with them and pledge never to do business with them in the future.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that sort of thing, and if fact, it is desirable to create external consequences in order punish companies that customers cannot otherwise affect.

Except when you're wrong and accuse a company of something they are not, giving a bad vibe when they didn't deserve it.

Besides, this case has nothing to do with Apartheid. And if you think you're doing the same, I believe you are the true danger here, by being completely delusionnal.

Yes, that's called defamation and yes, different countries deal with that. Especially when it has an impact on people's business. Which is why I'm giving you the reminder that yes, it can be considered a crime as well to do that.

It's clear that you think you are in the right. But with Questron here ? Maybe look at the facts first, then ask your guts if maybe they're not "that right" after all.

**JohnHwangDD**

Sarouan wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
Note that it is not a lie or an attack to say that you will boycott a company because of their partnerships. It's how we broke Apartheid.

It is entirely reasonable for Customer to say - we will boycott your products and highlight your bad partnership until such time that you publicly disavow your previous work with them and pledge never to do business with them in the future.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that sort of thing, and if fact, it is desirable to create external consequences in order punish companies that customers cannot otherwise affect.

Except when you're wrong and accuse a company of something they are not, giving a bad vibe when they didn't deserve it.

Besides, this case has nothing to do with Apartheid. And if you think you're doing the same, I believe you are the true danger here, by being completely delusionnal.

Yes, that's called defamation and yes, different countries deal with that. Especially when it has an impact on people's business. Which is why I'm giving you the reminder that yes, it can be considered a crime as well to do that.

It's clear that you think you are in the right. But with Questron here ? Maybe look at the facts first, then ask your guts if maybe they're not "that right" after all.

Except for the fact that Questron admits to having done business with SPM/ND. Or are you saying that Questron was lying when they did business with SPM/ND? Either way, Questron deserves to be punished until such time that they pledge that they will refuse business with SPM/ND.

On the contrary, boycotts work. Disinvestment works. That's why IDW and Questron are scared of the blowback. It's why IDW changed their story, and is now saying that they used Questron, when they actually hired SPM/ND (who subcontracted to Questron). If IDW lies about their business partners in order to get money from people, that is actual criminal *fraud*, which is a far more serious thing.

In the United States, truth is an absolute defense against libel and defamation and so forth. Everything that I have said is truth, and can be backed up by quotes from IDW and Questron. My choice to recommend others stop doing business with IDW and Questron is entirely legal. If this causes either company to go under, too fething bad.

If they don't want consequences, they can simply pledge to never do business with SPM/ND again.

**Valander**

I don't think it's fair to look at freelancers who did work at some point past for a company which eventually turned out to be shady; they may not have been at the time the freelancers did work for them.

Now, sure, if the freelancer continues to work for the shady company (but, in most cases, why would they if they're not getting paid and so on), then yeah, calling the freelancer to the carpet for that is probably ok. At the same time, though, I think it's very important to remember that freelancers have very little to do with the day-to-day operations of any company except themselves, and shouldn't bear the punishment of a shady company shafting their customers when the work they did for that company was on contract and they had no influence on how the project was carried out.

There's absolutely a risk, though, for freelancers to continue to accept work from Shady Company once there's more public opinion/knowledge of Shady Company's practices. End consumers probably can't do much here, but other companies may seriously reconsider using those freelancers who are known to support Shady Company.

**JohnHwangDD**

Valander wrote:
I don't think it's fair to look at freelancers who did work at some point past for a company which eventually turned out to be shady; they may not have been at the time the freelancers did work for them.

Now, sure, if the freelancer continues to work for the shady company (but, in most cases, why would they if they're not getting paid and so on), then yeah, calling the freelancer to the carpet for that is probably ok. At the same time, though, I think it's very important to remember that freelancers have very little to do with the day-to-day operations of any company except themselves, and shouldn't bear the punishment of a shady company shafting their customers when the work they did for that company was on contract and they had no influence on how the project was carried out.

There's absolutely a risk, though, for freelancers to continue to accept work from Shady Company once there's more public opinion/knowledge of Shady Company's practices. End consumers probably can't do much here, but other companies may seriously reconsider using those freelancers who are known to support Shady Company.

I agree with this. That's why I suggest that Questron, etc. publicly refuse to do future business wtih SPM/ND so everybody can go forward with a clean slate.

**Vertrucio**

It is not Questron's job or purpose to refuse any paying work. This isn't the systematic killing, oppression, and exploitation of an entire people, these are little toy soldiers.

And they already won't be doing work with SP/ND because a company that doesn't pay is a company that you don't want to do business with as a freelancer.

**nkelsch**

IDW released press releases explicitly saying they were using ND for sculpts. No mention of Questron.

Only after the blowback did they modify the press releases to say they were using Questron as the artist directly and that ND is still involved but less so than previously said.

All these people who are late to the party are like "think of the children! who could possibly blame Questron?" No one ever blamed Questron. They blamed IDW who said they were using ND and ND who claimed to have 'house artists' which were in fact freelancers all along.

IDW made a poor choice partnering with ND and putting it in press releases. Now they know better.

**Monkeysloth**

Considering this was ND they probably lied to IDW and said they did have a house sculptor to which IDW only found out now they don't.

Its fair to discuss this info but we have to admit we don't know what we don't know. It's easy to throw blame but maybe put down the pitchforks as being an angry internet mob as never solved anything.

**PsychoticStorm**

Are you seriously trying to raise an outrage mob to hunt down freelancers? for real?

They got contracted, they did their job, hopefully they got payed for it, its not their job to do background check on their employers and its not their moral obligation to check their employers ethical status.

**Sarouan**

PsychoticStorm wrote:
Are you seriously trying to raise an outrage mob to hunt down freelancers? for real?

Yes, they are.

Graugeist just added some fuel to the fire on the link I posted before, talking about "boycotting their products until they disavow publicly their previous work with SPM/ND".

See, that's exactly that kind of reaction that gives truth to people accusing you as being "toxic backers spreading negative campaign to bring harm on purpose to companies".

That's what you're doing. You are really going on a wrong road here in your "crusade" against SPM/ND.

**JohnHwangDD**

PsychoticStorm wrote:
Are you seriously trying to raise an outrage mob to hunt down freelancers? for real?

Nah, I'm simply saying that I won't be supporting anyone who continues to work with SPM/ND.

If others feel the same, that's fine.

If others feel different, that's also fine.

If others don't care, also fine.

I have too much else on my plate to create and herd an unruly rabble.

**Sarouan**

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Nah, I'm simply saying that I won't be supporting anyone who continues to work with SPM/ND.

Funny enough, they don't but they still get attacked by your "fanboyz", it seems. Apparently Questron's crime was to freelance sculpt for ND/SPM at that time. Mind you, sculpting miniatures is not the same as handling money for a Kickstarter like SDE Legends. To take your Apartheid comparison, it's like attacking the black people working for the white people that were causing the segregation. They should have known better, right ?

You have an influence and you know it, JohnHwang. Don't play dumb and act like you have nothing to do in that matter.

**warboss**

PsychoticStorm wrote:
Are you seriously trying to raise an outrage mob to hunt down freelancers? for real?

They got contracted, they did their job, hopefully they got payed for it, its not their job to do background check on their employers and its not their moral obligation to check their employers ethical status.

If they care about their own "brand"/reputation then it is good practice to not willingly associate with those who have a reputation somewhere in between incompetence and outright deception. No one said it was a morale obligation though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sarouan wrote:
Meanwhile, a reminder that spreading lies or mindless attacks on random people you "feel" are linked to SPM/ND...

Speaking of that type of accusation, I provided irrefutable proof when you questioned any relationship between SD/CYPHER/ND in the form of John Cadice's own words and you disappeared for months. Do you believe that connection now btw?

**PsychoticStorm**

I would question what relevance has questron or any other freelancer/ contractor involved has with SP/ ND are we going after the printers for the books/ cards next?

I do not think freelancers should have any pressure of what any of their clients may do in the future and why should they turn down a big contract anyway, they are freelancers.

SP/ ND reputation is important for any freelancer to not take jobs from them since they clearly cannot pay, but beyond that why should they "disavow SP/ ND" or make any promises for "Not working with them in the future", you understand they are different entities right?

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

And clearly the US government since ND have been paying them taxes with the money 'stolen' from backers...….

**Bossk_Hogg**

That's some bs witch hunt logic man. Let's start a boycott at ND's favorite local fast food chain and dox their delivery drivers. What scum, taking money for a job done! /S

I'm out money from their crap KS's, but no one should begrudge a freelancer taking a paying gig. They worked for someone incompetent. That's probably most of us lol. Also, to compare ND's failure to make your man-dollies to apartheid is flat out offensive. Be a fething grown up and get some perspective.

**Nostromodamus**

Bossk_Hogg wrote:
That's some bs witch hunt logic man. Let's start a boycott at ND's favorite local fast food chain and dox their delivery drivers. What scum, taking money for a job done! /S

I'm out money from their crap KS's, but no one should begrudge a freelancer taking a paying gig. They worked for someone incompetent. That's probably most of us lol. Also, to compare ND's failure to make your man-dollies to apartheid is flat out offensive. Be a fething grown up and get some perspective.

This.

All fething day.