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So with recent success of these lists at Nova, I was wondering if I could get some tips from people that run it.

Seems to be 2 variations that work, Nurgle and Slaanesh. Builds?

What powers do you roll? How do you balance the desire to summon with wanting to buff your guys with Biomancy?

I got 11th overall with nurgle princes, but was 5th overall before dropping at the end of round 6... that being said....

My list was:

Fateweaver
GUO, Exalted gift, lvl 3

17 pink horrors
13 pink horrors

3 x nurgle prince, wings, armour, lvl 3, 2 greater gifts


I roll powers as following. Starting g with princes I roll on Demonology. If I get a 1 4 or 5, then I keep it and roll again. Should the second roll be a 2 3 or 6, then I swap it for the primaris.

If a prince rolls a combination of 1 4 and 5 on the first two rolls, then the third roll just goes towards demonology too.

If I've swapped out the second roll for the primaris then the third roll is generally on biomancy, seeking iron arm, life leach, or endurance to help keep princes alive. If I'm fighting wraithknights or riptides, I often roll the 3rd power on telepathy to take psychic shriek.

Psychic shriek is exceptionally good with fateweaver since if you roll a 6, 4, and a 1, you can re roll only the 1 and have a shot and instantly killing an unwounded wraithknight.

It's also worth noting that the nurgle princes gain chaos focus nurgle and that template weapon is no joke.

Please link to the results or at least share the lists

Well master shake there is one of em, thanks dude for posting.

Shake, what did you lose to and what's a bad matchup for the list?

Now we're just missing the Welsh guy with the slaanesh version. Anyone know his user name?

Basically, I lost to being too drunk. Haha

Ha. Ok. So what do you find is a bad matchup and how do you overcome it?

Serpent spam is not the best match up but that can be mitigated by really taking advantage of the summoning aspect of the demons. Nothing says feth wave serpents like summoning 30 demonettes with cursed earth on turn 1!

Why do you go with a number of 17 and 13 in your pink horrors instead of 3 12s? Points?

Why do you choose 2 Greater Gifts for Each of the Princes? And not go for Portaglyph.

Sorry if the questions come off a little pokey, I am genuinely curious as to this specific build as I think it is good. Just curious.

Your Warp Charge count is 22 i believe. I find myself perfectly fine at the 20 to 25 range of Warp Charge because Dice roll adds more , did you feel like you did not have enough warp charge?? To little?

1 Greater Gift is for the Balesword, the other for survivability.

Instant Death on a maneuverable FMC spells death to all other MCs in the game stave possibly the Avatar.

I was very surprised to see the Number of FMC builds doing well in Nova!!! I'm very interested in the Slaanesh builds. This one especially
http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/12th-Overall-James-Ramsay-Nova-Open-2014.pdf
My main question is how do they FMCs do damage now that assault and vector strike been nerfed?

I'd like to know how often you flew the MC and how important LoS Blocking terrain was.

Also Congrats master shake. nice placing.

Just thought too, isn't psychic shriek a LD test. So the opponent would roll it and then FW couldn't re-roll it?

 sickening wrote:
I was very surprised to see the Number of FMC builds doing well in Nova!!! I'm very interested in the Slaanesh builds. This one especially
http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/12th-Overall-James-Ramsay-Nova-Open-2014.pdf
My main question is how do they FMCs do damage now that assault and vector strike been nerfed?

It depends on your list really.

Daemon FMCs tend to be Daemons Prince of Slaanesh for absurd amounts of shooting. Since the Lash of Despair is Str User the Daemon Prince rolling 3 times on Biomancy can be str 9 with Iron Arm. Which gives you 2D6 shots at Str 9.

You will get players like myself who will run Daemon Prince of Nurgle builds with Baleswords and Exalted Rewards. I you roll a 4-5 you tend to take an Artifact in it's place (Portaglyph) but what you're really trying to get is Rift Bringer or Soul Eater. Even Wind of Chaos can be helpful if you decide you want to fly around as a Slaaneshi Prince, since if gives you another weapon to fire. But for Daemons of Nurgle you're looking for Rift and Soul Eater for CC. Because that's what you'll be doing with Nurgle Princes. You have a 12" movement phase and a 2+ Cover save. If your board has sufficient terrain you will even have LoS blocking. This means that you will be getting into CC turn 2/3 depending on how you play your cards.

.

Are you talking about Jumping them every turn and not flying? I thought about doing the say with Tzeentch Princes and Be'Lakor casting shrouding. It will give you a 2+ cover save re rolling 1s and hitting at S8 in CC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AutarchRion
GUO=Great Unclean One

 sickening wrote:
Are you talking about Jumping them every turn and not flying? I thought about doing the say with Tzeentch Princes and Be'Lakor casting shrouding. It will give you a 2+ cover save re rolling 1s and hitting at S8 in CC.

I have thought about this a lot and the biggest problem with it is you have to keep everything so close together.

Hollismason wrote:
Why do you go with a number of 17 and 13 in your pink horrors instead of 3 12s? Points?

Why do you choose 2 Greater Gifts for Each of the Princes? And not go for Portaglyph.

Sorry if the questions come off a little pokey, I am genuinely curious as to this specific build as I think it is good. Just curious.

Your Warp Charge count is 22 i believe. I find myself perfectly fine at the 20 to 25 range of Warp Charge because Dice roll adds more , did you feel like you did not have enough warp charge?? To little?

I go with 13 and 17 because the points aren't there for 3 units of 12. Plus, having 13 and 17 allows me to cast sacrifice without sacrifice a power level on the horrors.

....which leads me into your next question. 2 greater gifts are for survivability. I generally only take a balesword if I roll a bad gift or I really need it. I don't take an Exalted because it's simply not as good as a greater on a prince. I can always summon a Herald with a portal glyph too.

My warp charge count is 21, and I find it to be ample in most cases for cursed earth and 3 warp charge 3 powers.

 sickening wrote:
I was very surprised to see the Number of FMC builds doing well in Nova!!! I'm very interested in the Slaanesh builds. This one especially
http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/12th-Overall-James-Ramsay-Nova-Open-2014.pdf
My main question is how do they FMCs do damage now that assault and vector strike been nerfed?

I was using the Slaanesh FMC build that came 12th. I was doing well and lost ultimately to Tom who was running Eldar/dark eldar. I was pretty lucky in that game and had it in the bag when it went to turn 7 until I messed up on the last turn with how I claimed objectives. I blame tiredness after 10 games and jetlag after travelling 4000 miles!

The slaanesh vs nurgle vs tzeentch prince debate depending on play style and meta. I prefer the slaanesh version because I am naturally quite aggressive and prefer the extra shooting option and the run/fleet can be very useful when you do land.

Ultimately when I rolled my gifts/powers it depends on who I was against.

Normally If against heavy mech like knights I go all out on biomancy hoping for iron arm for str 9 lashes as mentioned previously.
Against infantry normally took shriek 1st (even over invis etc) and then roll daemonology or biomancy depending on rest of the powers.

The terrain was crucial to how the army worked. Without the heavy terrain you would have to use a bastion definitely.

Always took lash for 1st gift unless i rolled reroll invun and 4+ fnp and didn't need it.

I used most of my dice on 1-2 dice beam of change/flickering fire/shrieks/pavane of slaanesh etc. The pavane is so good, so so so good. It takes apart most invisible units and can deny jink saves if used carefully. If I had had another model I would have used a 3rd slaanesh prince over belakor but I changed my list while I was in the US (from screamer council etc) but I felt bad using that tiny model! Belakor was very good but the more beams/lashes you have the better!!

 Master Shake wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Why do you go with a number of 17 and 13 in your pink horrors instead of 3 12s? Points?

Why do you choose 2 Greater Gifts for Each of the Princes? And not go for Portaglyph.

Sorry if the questions come off a little pokey, I am genuinely curious as to this specific build as I think it is good. Just curious.

Your Warp Charge count is 22 i believe. I find myself perfectly fine at the 20 to 25 range of Warp Charge because Dice roll adds more , did you feel like you did not have enough warp charge?? To little?

I go with 13 and 17 because the points aren't there for 3 units of 12. Plus, having 13 and 17 allows me to cast sacrifice without sacrifice a power level on the horrors.

....which leads me into your next question. 2 greater gifts are for survivability. I generally only take a balesword if I roll a bad gift or I really need it. I don't take an Exalted because it's simply not as good as a greater on a prince. I can always summon a Herald with a portal glyph too.

My warp charge count is 21, and I find it to be ample in most cases for cursed earth and 3 warp charge 3 powers.

Cool, thanks for the answers, yes I obsessively talk with other players about Chaos Daemons and Chaos Daemon summoned based armies, as it's very far and few between for people to show up with them, despite me believing that Summoning is one of the more powerful tools in winning tournaments due to ease of grabbing objectives.

Anything you'd want to change about the army?

Nothing.

I feel like Be'lakor is a chump. Serpent shields destroy him.

I don't particularly care for him, a lot of people use him though. I actually don't really use Fateweaver but that's me.

Basically I wouldn't use Belakor normally, but he was quite good at Nova because of the ridiculous terrain (and his ridiculous height helps!). He punked quite a few wraithknights and also helped me against Gareth Hunt's Knights/Grinders and the 2 other knight armies I played. Nobody could see him unless I wanted them to. His biggest weakness is obviously getting hit by lots of ignore shots (a broadside pack he is terrified of, or serpents) and that he can't mix and match his powers.

The more I play it the more i like using supplemental list that has some punch when it comes to Daemon Summoning. I haven't used FMC yet, I lean towards Slaanesh, so it'd be a KOS for me. I also really love Soul Grinders so it's hard to give up my precious Soul Grinders.

In your experience, do you think Codex Daemons DPs are more effective or Codex CSM?

If you choose Nurgle DP in CSM, he get's +1 tougness, and different weapon options, than a DP from Codex Daemons. Plus, if my memory is working...they are not slow and purposeful in Codex CSM. Which versions tend to do better in competitive play?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw, anyone know of a really good flying circus battle report i could watch? i would like to see how skilled players run a list like this on the tabletop.

Master Shake and Jpr:

Besides aurarch's question above about possibly using csm princes (a good one!) I have another:

How do you guys use the walking GD (GUO/KoS)? Especially the KoS seems like she'd just die to serpents and the like.

AutarchRion wrote:In your experience, do you think Codex Daemons DPs are more effective or Codex CSM?

If you choose Nurgle DP in CSM, he get's +1 tougness, and different weapon options, than a DP from Codex Daemons. Plus, if my memory is working...they are not slow and purposeful in Codex CSM. Which versions tend to do better in competitive play?.

No this is wrong. DPs in CSM don't get Mark of Nurgle they get Daemon of Nurgle which does the same thing as it does in Codex: Daemons (so Shrouded and Slow & Purposeful). CSM DPoN also have to roll at least one power on CSM's terrible Nurgle discipline which Daemon DPoN do not. The only difference from there is the ability to take the Black Mace and Spell Familiar instead of Greater Rewards. So CSM princes trade in all chances for durabilty for damage and that's not tha great because they die really easily already so need that extra defense from greater rewards to stay alive. Also since you'd ally it in you forced to spend an additional 50 pts minimum on bad troops.

Budzerker wrote:Master Shake and Jpr:

Besides aurarch's question above about possibly using csm princes (a good one!) I have another:

How do you guys use the walking GD (GUO/KoS)? Especially the KoS seems like she'd just die to serpents and the like.

KoS are better then LoC and BT in 7ed because FMC got nerfed hard.

It gets to combat the most reliably now for the price. With the nerf to FMCs changing flight modes it means often they will get shot down just as fast as the Keeper on the turn they change modes but you are still paying a premium for FMC status. Since KoS has +3" to running and Fleet it means its consistently fast enough to make reliable turn 2 charges just like the BT and LoC can so generally just as good at reaching combat as any other GD but for cheaper. Also is pretty much an par for combat stats as any of the GDs being so is still up to snuff there.

Plus the Keeper's psychic prowess is nothing to sneeze at namely because of Telepathy. You can always get Psychic Shriek which is an amazing witchfire (and you can still run after using it) but you also can roll shrouding and best of all Invisibility. If you get Invis then she is superior to all other greater daemons by a landslide.

As for the GUO the only viable way to use one is to take 2 greater rewards, roll triple biomancy and deep strike it. If you get a bunch of extra durabilty from rewards and biomancy then it's hard to reliably kill but its so slow (having S&P) that it is extremely easy to just run away from it so you have to deep strike it right in the middle of the enemy to have any chance of doing something.

I still think FMC is very effective if you build and play around it well. I just played a couple games with a Lord of Change and Tzeentch Daemon Prince supported by Be'Lakor and I can tell you they shrugged off an absurd amount of firepower even without the greater rewards tables. 2+ rerollable cover saves on the tzeentch daemons got me far enough into the enemy lines to then split and engage 3 different units in close combat and wipe out any threats. (Although one prince did get shut down and killed by those pesky mindshackle scarabs so I diverted a couple maulerfiends to deal with that unit.). That was at 1500 and my next games will be 1850 where I should be able to get a 4th FMC in.

I actually really like Keeper of Secrets and Slaanesh Daemon Princes instead of Nurgle.The main reason being Daemon Princes of Slaanesh get the Lash, and can go Biomancy or Telepathy. I go Biomancy first hoping for Iron Arm.A KOS w/ Level 3 and 2 Greater 1 Lesser is boss and comes in a good deal cheaper.Also in Regards to Slaanesh, there is one thing that Slaanesh get's that is super helpful and it may not be the most powerful.Is the fact that it's Primary , is a BEAM. So you can hit Invisible units with it, unfortunately it is only ST6 but it does have rending and again it can fire in the Psychic Phase and run.

KOS Being able to Shoot in the psychic phase with Psychic Shriek then Run D6 + 3 is huge.

It's also like 80 or more points cheaper and taking greater gifts can make it pretty much a beast in combat.


Also, armies can weep openly at a 24 inch ST6 Rending BEAM. That's pretty great.


What are peoples opinions on something like this?


Keeper w/ Level 3, 2 Greater Gifts

Heralds
Herald Of Slaanesh , Lvl 2,
Herald of Slaanesh, Lvl 2 ,
Herald of Slaanesh , Lvl 2, w/ Steed
Herald of Slaanesh, Lvl 2 , w/ Steed , Exalted (Portaglyph)

Total : 715
Warp Charge : 11

Troops
12 Pink Horrors 108
12 Pink Horrors 108
15 Daemonettes of Slaanesh , w/ Icon , Musician

Total : 371
Warp Charge : 4


Fast Attack
13 Seekers of Slaanesh w/ Heart Seeker, Icon , Musician

Total : 181


H. Support
Daemon Prince of Slaanesh w/ Greater Gift, Level 3 , Wings
Daemon Prince of Slaanesh w Greater Gift, Level 3 , Wings

Total : 580
Warp Charge 6

Total Warp Charge : 21
Total Cost : 1842

Total Number of Possible Psychic Shrieks : 7
Total Number of ST6 Beams : 7
Total Number of Rolls on Telepathy possible : 13
Total possible Invisibility or Shrouding : 13
Total Summoning Units : 9

Should I save points and just go with Daemonettes?


Keeper w/ Level 3, 2 Greater Gifts

Heralds
Herald Of Slaanesh , Lvl 2,
Herald of Slaanesh, Lvl 2 ,
Herald of Slaanesh , Lvl 2, w/ Steed
Herald of Slaanesh, Lvl 2 , w/ Steed , Exalted (Portaglyph)

Total : 715
Warp Charge : 11

Troops

13 Daemonettes of Slaanesh , w/ Icon , Musician
13 Daemonettes of Slaanesh

Total : 274

Warp Charge : 0

H. Support
Daemon Prince of Slaanesh w/ Greater Gift, Level 3 , Wings
Daemon Prince of Slaanesh w Greater Gift, Level 3 , Wings
Daemon Prince of Slaanesh w/ Greater Gift , Level 3 Wings

Total : 870

Warp Charge 9

Total Warp Charge : 20

However, with a low number of units, it is actually possible I could cast Invisibility on everything or at least 50 to 75% of the army.

Total Cost : 1839

Dont forget that any UNIT may only cast 1 ability with the same name per psychic phase (Therefore, if you plan to put all your Heralds in that one squad of Seekers, you can only cast Psychic Shriek once from the UNIT.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Dont forget that any UNIT may only cast 1 ability with the same name per psychic phase (Therefore, if you plan to put all your Heralds in that one squad of Seekers, you can only cast Psychic Shriek once from the UNIT.

Yeah, this isn't true like at all please stop saying it and promoting it it's just wrong on multiple levels and it keeps popping up on the forums and it's annoying as it starts this whole argument. We don't play it that way and neither does any of the other tournaments (Nova, BAO, Adepticon, Local) or people we know , which we go by. It's a rules debate issue because if you play it that way then you can't cast powers when you join a Psyker to a normal squad because of that interpretation.

So yeah, you can play it that way if you like but it's going to hamstring the game. If you play it that way that's fine but realize that if you follow that way you can never cast a power if you have a psyker in a squad because there's no way to select that unit as there is no such thing as a Psychic Unit. You're welcome to open that can of worms in YMDC, but generally everyone has agreed that they mean a model with the Psyker special rule as there's literally no such thing as a Psyker unit in the game but instead individual models with a Psyker rule. That's the jist of it. It's a huge can of worms just like the how many psychic powers can you cast thing.

Hollismason wrote:

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Dont forget that any UNIT may only cast 1 ability with the same name per psychic phase (Therefore, if you plan to put all your Heralds in that one squad of Seekers, you can only cast Psychic Shriek once from the UNIT.

Yeah, this isn't true like at all please stop saying it and promoting it it's just wrong on multiple levels and it keeps popping up on the forums and it's annoying as it starts this whole argument. We don't play it that way and neither does any of the other tournaments (Nova, BAO, Adepticon, Local) or people we know , which we go by. It's a rules debate issue because if you play it that way then you can't cast powers when you join a Psyker to a normal squad because of that interpretation.

So yeah, you can play it that way if you like but it's going to hamstring the game. If you play it that way that's fine but realize that if you follow that way you can never cast a power if you have a psyker in a squad because there's no way to select that unit as there is no such thing as a Psychic Unit. You're welcome to open that can of worms in YMDC, but generally everyone has agreed that they mean a model with the Psyker special rule as there's literally no such thing as a Psyker unit in the game but instead individual models with a Psyker rule. That's the jist of it. It's a huge can of worms just like the how many psychic powers can you cast thing.

I must be mistaken then. I guess I'll have to re read the whole psychic phase again since I can recall something about either A) The same psychic ability cannot be cast twice in succession, or B) Witchfires cannot be cast twice in succession unless otherwise stated

Citing would be helpful