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 DanielBeaver wrote:
My understanding is they get their resources by a sort of tithe from the planets they control, or directly from the imperium if they're a fleet-based chapter. In fact, I think the Badab wars were partly caused by Lufgt Huron feeling like he wasn't getting enough support from the imperium.

Fenris, for example, is the only world the Space Wolves control, and it is not known for its industrial output or mineral production. Yet, somehow, the Iron Priests manage to craft sufficient war-gear for an oversized Chapter (though they don't build the space assets, those are left over from the GC/Heresy... Fenris doesn't have the manpower.)

 Psienesis wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
My understanding is they get their resources by a sort of tithe from the planets they control, or directly from the imperium if they're a fleet-based chapter. In fact, I think the Badab wars were partly caused by Lufgt Huron feeling like he wasn't getting enough support from the imperium.

Fenris, for example, is the only world the Space Wolves control, and it is not known for its industrial output or mineral production. Yet, somehow, the Iron Priests manage to craft sufficient war-gear for an oversized Chapter (though they don't build the space assets, those are left over from the GC/Heresy... Fenris doesn't have the manpower.)

one thing to keep in mind is most space Marine Chapters, ESPECIALLY the first founding ones, proably have long tradtional ties and oaths with surrounding worlds. so the space wolves may not be able to manafacture everything, but Lemen Russ may have once saved the life of the governer of a world with a big industry, and he said "dear primarch! to repay you, my world will supply the space wolves with X amount for goods forever!"

As it happens, the Space Wolves have taken control of the second moon of Magdelon. Of course the production of its gem mines may have industrial uses, and definitely trade value.

It's nonsense that a chapter can magically get what it wants from a local planet. There are dozens of other marine strike forces and Imperial interests. The navy and forge worlds need to build and crew the ships that brought that fuel to their shipyards in the first place. How is a forge world going to distribute its stocks between two marine chapters asking for the same thing, much less seven chapters and several inquisitors?

Space Marines have to put a value on their activities somehow.

Now, if they work for a rogue trader, he can supply them to the extent that he expects their military actions to net him exploitable resources.

Chapter forges make kraken bolts and chapters own promethium wells. It shouldn't be a surprise if a chapter with those things trades them to another chapter that makes mk7 greaves and a surplus of fissile material for powering backpacks.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Marine world/systems don't pay tithe's to the administratum like other worlds, instead they have special rights to use goods manufactured on said worlds for use directly for the chapter, or to use as trade/sell for items they need.

Very few Chapters control more than one world, and it's often a feral world as bloody-minded barbarians are thought to make for better recruits. I suspect marines find little use for stone weapons and cured animal skins (unless it's wolf pelts, you can always sell those to the SW). That's the whole reason most Chapter worlds are excempt from tithing - the world has nothing to offer except a few recruits that can be easily covered for by an extra second spent drafting on a Hive world.

Yes they do. Each chapter is allotted a certain amount of resources based on their expenses in the previous year. In fact, this routinely causes chapters that have experienced a quiet year to blow any budgetary surplus on frivolous purchases, such as cosmetic servitor upgrades or brand new tablets for every Battle-Brother, just to secure the next year's budget. And as resources for all chapters come out of the same pool, this means the more active chapters are often insufficiently funded. Just recently, the Black Templars had to drastically downsize their operation in order to stay afloat.

I'm a little reticent to cite antedoctal evidence, but my favorite chapter, the Lamenters, is described as basically poor as dirt (for Astartes).

They have almost no terminator suits. They lost one of their two battle barges during the Badab war to the Minotaurs chapter.

It seems totally reasonable to me that fleet-based chapters could run low on basic supplies. A forge world-type operation cannot fit on any space vessel held by a space marine chapter, and you can't make a Astartes-level vehicle without the proper herbs & spices.

brendan, remember that each chapter is different. Aren't the Lamenters known for being horribly unlucky in a grimdark fashion that renders their every engagement with the enemy a depressing tale of loss and tragedy? Or am I thinking of a different Blood Angels successor chapter?

I want to point out to everyone that in the 40K universe the market doesn't function as a... market. Like BrianDavion was saying, there are oaths and feudal ties that connect these warrior organizations to the people that they protect. Even when a world that a chapter isn't in control of is within that chapter's radius of protection, the chapter can and will ask them to supply them. That's the condition under which they receive protection. Honor is all well and good, but even honorable warriors will be irate about protecting a planet that refuses to support them (though I doubt most chapters would abdicate from their duty!).

I can tell you matter of factly that Gunmetal City on Scintilla of the Calixis sector is where they manufacture a lot of the bolt shells, and it's incredibly unlikely to be the only forge where they do that. The Forge has no specific contract with any chapter of Space Marines, even the local Storm Wardens, but because they are more or less indentured to the Imperium (ancient feudal contracts that barely hold the Imperium of Man together since the days of the Horus Heresy) they constantly produce more bolt shells to meet whatever orders they receive.

They're not necessarily paid by the Space Marines with anything other than their protection. When the time comes for the Adeptus Mechanicus to demand a service of some kind be performed by the Imperium, they use the same contract that forces them to produce the Emperor's own number of bolt shells to get what they want. Market prices, budgets, and funding don't play a huge part in those kinds of transactions.

Even when a world that a chapter isn't in control of is within that chapter's radius of protection, the chapter can and will ask them to supply them. That's the condition under which they receive protection. Honor is all well and good, but even honorable warriors will be irate about protecting a planet that refuses to support them (though I doubt most chapters would abdicate from their duty!).

If that were actually true (the part about protection being dependent on supplies) then it would make the marine chapters little better than mercenaries at best and low life mafia-esque thugs at worst. It also pretty much flies in the face of almost everything the fluff says of (most of) the loyalist chapters. If a world has supplies such that they can be useful to the chapter, that world would be protected based on that alone. This is (as you point out) aside from the fact that to not protect an imperial world under attack would be the exact opposite of what Marines are for. Plus, I'm pretty sure a world refusing aid to a marine chapter is going to get the Imperial Sanction hammer fairly quick anyway. I would see money/supplies as having almost ZERO to do with anything relating to protection from the marines.

Marines enter into pacts and deals with Rogue Traders and Navigators in manners that could be kinda analogous to mercenaries (albeit in contracts that span generations). Not sure I recall them doing such a thing with planets, though. (in terms of offering protection for goods in return). IIRC, pacts have been mentioned with Forge Worlds and at other times, various planets supplied Marines for... whatever reason, but I'm not sure it was explicitly stated that the marines gave them protection in return (because, as you've pointed out, it's a marine's duty to protect an Imperial Planet regardless of pacts. For Navigators and Rogue Traders, the duty isn't there so it makes more sense for a marine to offer protection services in exchange for other goods or services in that case)

@TiamatRoar:

Yeah, your examples of Navigators makes more sense, although I could have sworn the Navigator families had ties to the Imperium itself and not so much specific chapters, but 6 of one half dozen of the other. Hadn't heard of working with Rogue Traders in that sense, but it does make sense. The RT's are no doubt a source of both material as well as intelligence that might otherwise be hard to get through normal means.

That's all different from rolling up to a planet and basically shaking it down as some sort of protection racket though imo. lol

Pacts made to various Forge Worlds are not mercenary-like. Of course, any Chapter could be sent to any world to protect anything. But in cases where one planet has a pact with the Chapter it gets first priority except where the other planet is vital or a direct order from the High Lords/Inquisition.

For example, if caught between helping small Forge World A and B, but they had a pact with B to protect it, they'll cover the length and bredth of the galaxy to reach B. But if B was some backwater planet and A was a major Forge World capable of making Titans, Astartes-grade vehicles and equipment and starships, A is the priority. Even then, if the High Lords say. "Armeggeddon needs you now!" Some chapters might uphold their personal duty to A, but most would make tracks for Armageddon.

The Ivory Disaster wrote:

I can tell you matter of factly that Gunmetal City on Scintilla of the Calixis sector is where they manufacture a lot of the bolt shells, and it's incredibly unlikely to be the only forge where they do that. The Forge has no specific contract with any chapter of Space Marines, even the local Storm Wardens, but because they are more or less indentured to the Imperium (ancient feudal contracts that barely hold the Imperium of Man together since the days of the Horus Heresy) they constantly produce more bolt shells to meet whatever orders they receive.

Well, alright. Bolt shells are used by every imperial faction and at huge rates. What happens when there are more orders for bolt shells than the city can satisfy?

They might owe all their production to the Imperium, but that just means the Imperium have to decide whose bolt shell orders are more important.

They're not necessarily paid by the Space Marines with anything other than their protection. When the time comes for the Adeptus Mechanicus to demand a service of some kind be performed by the Imperium, they use the same contract that forces them to produce the Emperor's own number of bolt shells to get what they want. Market prices, budgets, and funding don't play a huge part in those kinds of transactions.

Inevitably "protection" means proactive destruction of threatening forces, and the expansion of Imperial territory to provide strategic buffer zones and additional resources. There must be a way of allocating resources among expansion planets a,b,c; Ork threats d,e,f; and Chaos threats g,h,i.

Finding and colonizing new worlds is often the task of Rogue Traders, who are largely self-funded. In return for this service, the RT gets a cut of the production from any new worlds they help colonize (often also getting to name the world itself). RTs often don't get paid directly... but if you colonized an Agri-World, and you know a nearby Hive World, you can make a *very* tidy profit taking your duly-tithed grain from your Agri-World and selling it to the Hive World, who pay you in the products of their forges and factories, provide you with crewmembers for your ship(s) (and maybe even new/replacement colonists for your ventures) and other sundry goods. Which you then take somewhere else and sell or trade them, and so on.