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I'm not a fear monger, I understand the disease.

That said, I'm certainly not ready to start giving high fives, state there is no reason to worry and mock people who are worried about this either. The fact is, a man traveling from Liberia--after handling ebola patients--was allowed back into the country, flew through a lay over, presented at a hospital where they documented he was recently in Africa--had ebola symptoms--and was released back into the public until he was so severely ill, an EMS unit was needed.

This is a failure on several levels and people should be pissed off. Citing hand washing and chuckling at people being afraid is not a good way to approach it. Yes, it is highly unlikely ebola could mutate to airborne given it's outer structure--however there is a very real concern that it could mutate in other nasty ways. We know that ebola is currently mutating faster than we've previously seen and selectively speaking, there is a greater and greater population pool for a fitness mutation to arise.

While moving through the human population in West Africa, she says, the virus has been collecting mutations about twice as quickly as it did while circulating among animals in the past decade or so.

That's from an NPR interview with the head researcher of Harvard--leading a study sequencing ebola genomes from this outbreak. It's been shown that virus mutations that actually overcome deleterious mutations require novel conditions (new tissue, sampling of new host DNA, etc.)--so we are quite literally, rolling dice by allowing this to spiral in Africa. The larger the population, the more fitness gains we'll witness.

This has been one of the biggest international failures, medically speaking, in a very long time.

I don't mean to come across as ridiculing people. We will have people with Ebola here, they will probably infect others, I won't claim that the US is imune. Clearly we are not as we are already seeing. It's okay to be concerned about it.

My opinion, based on my training and experience, is that we don't have to panic about it. We have lots of experience dealing with highly contagious diseases spreading through the public. We have the means to track outbreaks better than we can in Africa. We have the infrastructure and staff to approach this in a better way. The mortality rate is scary, but I would honestly expect that rate to drop significantly in the US with good supportive care.

It just reminds me of HIV when it was first discovered in the US. Everybody was terrified, now we handle it with standard precautions. I honestly expect Ebola to become something we are used to treating at some point without the panic that surrounds it.

And that is honestly my only complaint about the current response: people who are freaking out and spreading panic. There is a difference between being worried and concerned and going into panic mode. I'm just trying to get people away from the edge so that they can look at it rationaly.

 d-usa wrote:
I don't mean to come across as ridiculing people. We will have people with Ebola here, they will probably infect others, I won't claim that the US is imune. Clearly we are not as we are already seeing. It's okay to be concerned about it.

My opinion, based on my training and experience, is that we don't have to panic about it. We have lots of experience dealing with highly contagious diseases spreading through the public. We have the means to track outbreaks better than we can in Africa. We have the infrastructure and staff to approach this in a better way. The mortality rate is scary, but I would honestly expect that rate to drop significantly in the US with good supportive care.

It just reminds me of HIV when it was first discovered in the US. Everybody was terrified, now we handle it with standard precautions. I honestly expect Ebola to become something we are used to treating at some point without the panic that surrounds it.

And that is honestly my only complaint about the current response: people who are freaking out and spreading panic. There is a difference between being worried and concerned and going into panic mode. I'm just trying to get people away from the edge so that they can look at it rationaly.

Cannot imagine the freaking rumors that went off from that one in my teen years

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
I'm not a fear monger, I understand the disease.

That said, I'm certainly not ready to start giving high fives, state there is no reason to worry and mock people who are worried about this either. The fact is, a man traveling from Liberia--after handling ebola patients--was allowed back into the country, flew through a lay over, presented at a hospital where they documented he was recently in Africa--had ebola symptoms--and was released back into the public until he was so severely ill, an EMS unit was needed.

He left the country and passed through other airports and boarded different planes all while not exhibiting any symptoms. The only "screw up" is the last step step in this chain (being released from the hospital) and even then, it isn't that big of a deal. As stated over and over again, the diseases isn't that contagious, especially in a country like ours. It is not the be-all and end-all of infectious diseases. After the initial screw up, he was isolated and they tracked down all of the people he came in to contact with.

This is a failure on several levels and people should be pissed off. Citing hand washing and chuckling at people being afraid is not a good way to approach it. Yes, it is highly unlikely ebola could mutate to airborne given it's outer structure--however there is a very real concern that it could mutate in other nasty ways. We know that ebola is currently mutating faster than we've previously seen and selectively speaking, there is a greater and greater population pool for a fitness mutation to arise.

While moving through the human population in West Africa, she says, the virus has been collecting mutations about twice as quickly as it did while circulating among animals in the past decade or so.

That's from an NPR interview with the head researcher of Harvard--leading a study sequencing ebola genomes from this outbreak. It's been shown that virus mutations that actually overcome deleterious mutations require novel conditions (new tissue, sampling of new host DNA, etc.)--so we are quite literally, rolling dice by allowing this to spiral in Africa. The larger the population, the more fitness gains we'll witness.

Ah, the good old mutation bit. Yes it will mutate, as viruses tend to do, this is expected and quite normal. As you stated, there is the very unlikely chance that it mutates to be airborne. However, it is more accurate to say that it has a chance greater than zero of happening.

This has been one of the biggest international failures, medically speaking, in a very long time.

The situation in parts of Africa is bad. The fact that a man made it to Texas and got sick is not.

The rate of secondary infections from ebola is 1.3 to 1.8, meaning that every person sick makes less than two other people sick. Pre-vaccine measles had a secondary infection rate of 17 and the Spanish Flu had one of 2 to 5. The numbers for ebola were figured from the 1996 outbreak in Congo and the 2000 outbreak in Uganda, the two most studied outbreaks of the disease since we've known about it. The 2014 outbreak, while larger than any other, has the same infection rate as previous outbreaks.

It's worth noting that even in Africa, not every nation has succumbed to the disease. Nigeria stopped the disease in its tracks with relative ease after their first case flew in from Liberia. It ended up spreading to 20 other people and that was it. I think that shows pretty undeniably that when the proper precautions are taken, the disease can be controlled, which is what we are doing in the US. If we shut off air and maritime traffic in and out of the affected regions as some have suggested, it will make the problem even worse. Make no mistake about, if we ignored the disease it could get out of control. However, even though people are getting sick, we aren't letting it spread unchecked.

That freaking idiot in Dallas lied on his entry form

 Jihadin wrote:
That freaking idiot in Dallas lied on his entry form

Shocked, shocked I am!

The entry forms you fill out for customs on international flights

 Jihadin wrote:
That freaking idiot in Dallas lied on his entry form

Liberia has announced that they'll be charging the guy with ummm I dunno, something. Frankly I'm really concerned that we've now set a precedent that people infected with this crap can come and get as long as they can fake the funk through customs...

CNN is reporting that 18 people are being tracked, Reuters is saying up to 100 exposed "directly or indirectly" with 4 in isolation....pretty big disparity in those numbers.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/02/us-health-ebola-usa-idUSKCN0HP2F720141002

Slow down there Peter. Over 80 people who has been in contact with him are being monitored.

Yet seems Terror groups can do a WMD version scare in the US if they put the effort in

 Jihadin wrote:
Slow down there Peter. Over 80 people who has been in contact with him are being monitored.

Yet seems Terror groups can do a WMD version scare in the US if they put the effort in

Only stating what was listed in the Reuters article, 4 in isolation w/100(ish) "tracked." They're a pretty reputable news source, more so than CNN I dare say.

Duncan initially sought treatment at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital on the night of Sept. 25 but was sent back to the Dallas apartment where he was staying, with antibiotics despite telling a nurse he had just been in West Africa. By Sunday, he needed an ambulance to return to the same hospital after vomiting on the ground outside the apartment complex.

Police and armed security guards were keeping people about 100 yards away from the apartment on Thursday, with orange cones blocking the entrance and exit. Maintenance workers using high-pressure water were scrubbing the parking lot with bleach. The workers were not wearing any protective gear.

Wonder what he vomited onto the ground.

 d-usa wrote:
I don't mean to come across as ridiculing people. We will have people with Ebola here, they will probably infect others, I won't claim that the US is imune. Clearly we are not as we are already seeing. It's okay to be concerned about it.

My opinion, based on my training and experience, is that we don't have to panic about it. We have lots of experience dealing with highly contagious diseases spreading through the public. We have the means to track outbreaks better than we can in Africa. We have the infrastructure and staff to approach this in a better way. The mortality rate is scary, but I would honestly expect that rate to drop significantly in the US with good supportive care.

It just reminds me of HIV when it was first discovered in the US. Everybody was terrified, now we handle it with standard precautions. I honestly expect Ebola to become something we are used to treating at some point without the panic that surrounds it.

And that is honestly my only complaint about the current response: people who are freaking out and spreading panic. There is a difference between being worried and concerned and going into panic mode. I'm just trying to get people away from the edge so that they can look at it rationaly.

It wasn't directed at you D, I know you have the education to understand it. I'm not a fear monger and I certainly don't believe it's time to panic nor anything along those lines.

However, I am upset at the response shown both locally and internationally. It's costing people their lives and putting everyone else at risk and frankly--they should be shamed at how they've handled this.

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
However, I am upset at the response shown both locally and internationally. It's costing people their lives and putting everyone else at risk and frankly--they should be shamed at how they've handled this.

The response to what exactly?

 Jihadin wrote:
Slow down there Peter. Over 80 people who has been in contact with him are being monitored.

Yet seems Terror groups can do a WMD version scare in the US if they put the effort in

It's not 80 in contact with him. It's 20 that were in contact with him, and then 60 more that had contact with those 20. Basically they are being cautious and monitoring the people that the 20 could have infected even though they are not showing signs of infection themselves.

Bump that up to five more kids it seems

 Jihadin wrote:
Bump that up to five more kids it seems

The only mention of 5 children that I can find are of his own kids, which I imagine are included in the total numbers given how they were amongst the 12-18 people identified as coming into contact with him within 24 hours of his diagnosis. I can't find anything about 5 more children on top of that.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
However, I am upset at the response shown both locally and internationally. It's costing people their lives and putting everyone else at risk and frankly--they should be shamed at how they've handled this.

The response to what exactly?

Well, the first hospital that he went to that released him didn't do a bang-up job, on that I think we can all agree.

 Ouze wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
However, I am upset at the response shown both locally and internationally. It's costing people their lives and putting everyone else at risk and frankly--they should be shamed at how they've handled this.

The response to what exactly?

Well, the first hospital that he went to that released him didn't do a bang-up job, on that I think we can all agree.

Yeah, I agree that it was a screw up (I mentioned that in an earlier response as well). It's worth noting that it was quickly caught and seems to be under control.

I thinking there might be more to what Egos is saying, hence the request for clarification.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
However, I am upset at the response shown both locally and internationally. It's costing people their lives and putting everyone else at risk and frankly--they should be shamed at how they've handled this.

The response to what exactly?

Well, the first hospital that he went to that released him didn't do a bang-up job, on that I think we can all agree.

Yeah, I agree that it was a screw up (I mentioned that in an earlier response as well). It's worth noting that it was quickly caught and seems to be under control.

I thinking there might be more to what Egos is saying, hence the request for clarification.

I think the other component of his argument is the "internationally" component. I think there was a lot of "it's not in my backyard so it's not really my problem" going on in the international community. We (the world) were all concerned about it, but on a large scale we didn't really do all that much about it. Like I said, that might be because it didn't really affect us or it might have been that other outbreaks kind of burned themselves out and didn't really need big international aid missions and we completely dropped the ball by not recognizing that this outbreak was different.

That's my guess at some of the things that are bugging him.

24 hours left on the "lets revisit this conversation" stuff...

Hopefully these numbers won't continue to rise, though it would be illogical to expect otherwise.

CNN reported that a Dallas woman who had a child with Duncan said he had sweated profusely in the bed they shared at her apartment. The woman, whom CNN identified only as "Louisa," is quarantined in the apartment with one of her children, who is 13, and two visiting nephews in their 20s.

So he was sharing the bed of with the mother of his illegitimate (simply as a descriptor for "born out of wedlock", not as a value based judgement) while contagious huh? Time to reiterate that comment about unprotected sex re: "bodily fluids"? I'll happily make a tinfoil hat, take a selfie, and post it. IDC, this just gets worse and worse.

In Liberia, the head of the country's airport authority, Binyah Kesselly, said the government could prosecute Duncan for denying he had contact with someone who was eventually diagnosed with Ebola. Kesselly said Duncan was asked in a questionnaire whether he had come in contact with any Ebola victim or was showing any symptoms. "To all of these questions, Mr. Duncan answered 'no,'" Kesselly said.

My gut reaction is that this fool SHOULD be hit with terrorism charges, but then again why add another person to the US prison roster? I think the best case scenario is to try and cure the guy, and then release either him to the Liberian authorities. Under NO circumstance should the body be released if he dies, but you can bet your ass people will be calling for his body to be flown home if that happens. What kind of scumbag would purposefully lie about this sort of thing?

 d-usa wrote:

....is the "internationally" component. I think there was a lot of "it's not in my backyard so it's not really my problem" going on in the international community. We (the world) were all concerned about it, but on a large scale we didn't really do all that much about it. Like I said, that might be because it didn't really affect us or it might have been that other outbreaks kind of burned themselves out and didn't really need big international aid missions and we completely dropped the ball by not recognizing that this outbreak was different.

That's my guess at some of the things that are bugging him.

Yes, the international component has been incompetent at best, self serving at worst. There has been people on the ground all but begging for gloves and other rudimentary supplies to help with the response---and there's been a tremendous lack of coordination evident. I am not ready to attribute this to indifference--when incompetence is the usual factor--but it saddens me to see health care workers, fighting on the front lines not getting what they need--after months of begging. For example, if you want to a moment of serious depression, read the following Washington Post article;

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/global-response-to-ebola-marked-by-lack-of-coordination-and-leadership-experts-say/2014/09/11/35365264-39dc-11e4-8601-97ba88884ffd_story.html

or

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/ebola-outbreak/

I agree, the developed world, both the governments and citizens, on a whole don't care about Africa. I think there are a variety of reasons why, most of which most decent people probably wouldn't readily admit.

NIMBY has been a major part of it, as evidenced by other commenters on this thread.

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
So he was sharing the bed of with the mother of his illegitimate (simply as a descriptor for "born out of wedlock", not as a value based judgement)

That was an incredibly convoluted way of making a value judgement while saying you're not.

 Ouze wrote:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
So he was sharing the bed of with the mother of his illegitimate (simply as a descriptor for "born out of wedlock", not as a value based judgement)

That was an incredibly convoluted way of making a value judgement while saying you're not.

Heh. "I'm not making a value judgement, but..."

You don't oft associate George W. Bush with pithy witticisms, but "You can't take the high horse and then claim the low road" does come to mind.

 daedalus wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
So he was sharing the bed of with the mother of his illegitimate (simply as a descriptor for "born out of wedlock", not as a value based judgement)

That was an incredibly convoluted way of making a value judgement while saying you're not.

Heh. "I'm not making a value judgement, but..."

<shrug> Maybe.

Either way, I hope the dude gets better. Thats the best thing for everyone at this point.

 Ouze wrote:
You don't oft associate George W. Bush with pithy witticisms, but "You can't take the high horse and then claim the low road" does come to mind.

I saw him this morning with Brett bair after the round of golf with the Wounded Warriors. He also said the Obama deserves his silence on how Obama is handling situations. Was a pretty good interview.

Oh ffs.

NBC cameraman infected with ebola to be flown back to US for treatment.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/health/ebola-nbc-news-cameraman/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 Ouze wrote:
You don't oft associate George W. Bush with pithy witticisms, but "You can't take the high horse and then claim the low road" does come to mind.

I associate George Bush's brilliance with that of a drooling infant, if that helps any!!

Or a dead squirrel.

Or a peanut.

Or a stripper doing a show after drinking a gallon of laxatives.

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
Oh ffs.

NBC cameraman infected with ebola to be flown back to US for treatment.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/02/health/ebola-nbc-news-cameraman/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

And he'll be quarantined and treated and released like the first 2 doctors that came back to the US who had it?

Your fearmongering is slipping

 Jihadin wrote:
That freaking idiot in Dallas lied on his entry form

Liberia is considering bringing a prosecution against him.