Ebola outbreak in Dallas Texas.

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**squidhills**

Still not worried about an outbreak. If the only people getting the Ebolas are health care workers, it speaks more to the lack of proper training in hospitals than it does to the supercontagiousfatalityness of the virus itself.

When people outside of hospitals actualy start catching Ebola, I'll start to worry.

**d-usa**

Most likely the primary nursing staff for Duncan. With the signs of institutional problems they would be the most at risk.

**Frazzled**

squidhills wrote:
Still not worried about an outbreak. If the only people getting the Ebolas are health care workers, it speaks more to the lack of proper training in hospitals than it does to the supercontagiousfatalityness of the virus itself.

When people outside of hospitals actualy start catching Ebola, I'll start to worry.

If people on that flight caught it then thats serious.

**ScootyPuffJunior**

Frazzled wrote:
squidhills wrote:
Still not worried about an outbreak. If the only people getting the Ebolas are health care workers, it speaks more to the lack of proper training in hospitals than it does to the supercontagiousfatalityness of the virus itself.

When people outside of hospitals actualy start catching Ebola, I'll start to worry.

If people on that flight caught it then thats serious.

...but they won't.

The person flew before they were symptomatic.

**Spacemanvic**

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
squidhills wrote:
Still not worried about an outbreak. If the only people getting the Ebolas are health care workers, it speaks more to the lack of proper training in hospitals than it does to the supercontagiousfatalityness of the virus itself.

When people outside of hospitals actualy start catching Ebola, I'll start to worry.

If people on that flight caught it then thats serious.
...but they won't.

The person flew before they were symptomatic.

Which begs the question: Why the rush to find them?

**Hlaine Larkin mk2**

Spacemanvic wrote:
ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
squidhills wrote:
Still not worried about an outbreak. If the only people getting the Ebolas are health care workers, it speaks more to the lack of proper training in hospitals than it does to the supercontagiousfatalityness of the virus itself.

When people outside of hospitals actualy start catching Ebola, I'll start to worry.

If people on that flight caught it then thats serious.
...but they won't.

The person flew before they were symptomatic.

Which begs the question: Why the rush to find them?

In case they become symptomatic before they can be contained?

**Dreadclaw69**

Frazzled wrote:
Second Ebola patient took flight day before checking into hospital.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-outbreak-2nd-health-care-worker-with-disease-in-dallas-took-plane-day-before-symptoms-showed

I think news like that is mainly clickbait. People infected with Ebola are not contagious until they start displaying symptoms. It is however concerning as had the patient become symptomatic on a plane then (s)he could have infected many others due to the droplets from their breath and the number of people in close proximity.

d-usa wrote:
The complaints are coming from a Texas nursing union that's not active at the hospital who states that they have received complaints from nurses who are working there, so there is always a grain of salt since it's some hear-say.

But the reports are that the hospital still let the guy sit around other patients for multiple hours even when he came back the second time, didn't provide adequate isolation gear, didn't provide training, and didn't pick up bio-waste that was piling up in the room "to the ceiling".

The hospital seems to have absolutely dropped the ball with Duncan's treatment. I can only hope that vital lessons have been learned, and that no one else dies because of their negligence.

**Jihadin**

d-usa wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
More likely from having a mind set of "its the US and won't happen here." Still though, 103 fever and lack of urination and still sent home is pretty much condemning the hospital

Yeah, I think that the guys family does have a point. Although I think it's less of a "he didn't get the care he should have because he is black" situation and more of a "he didn't have insurance and/or money" situation. But that's my view of hospitals in the US in general, although that is probably off-topic.

I'm going out on a limb and say

Not a US citizen. Discharge nurse not connecting Liberia with Africa. No insurance. Prescriptions given and out the door

**Dreadclaw69**

Spacemanvic wrote:
Which begs the question: Why the rush to find them?

So they may be contained in the event that they are infected. If someone suddenly became symptomatic while on public transport, in a crowded public place, on a flight, with another patient, etc. then it may cause a lot of issues and infect others

**Frazzled**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Second Ebola patient took flight day before checking into hospital.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-outbreak-2nd-health-care-worker-with-disease-in-dallas-took-plane-day-before-symptoms-showed

I think news like that is mainly clickbait. People infected with Ebola are not contagious until they start displaying symptoms. It is however concerning as had the patient become symptomatic on a plane then (s)he could have infected many others due to the droplets from their breath and the number of people in close proximity.

d-usa wrote:
The complaints are coming from a Texas nursing union that's not active at the hospital who states that they have received complaints from nurses who are working there, so there is always a grain of salt since it's some hear-say.

But the reports are that the hospital still let the guy sit around other patients for multiple hours even when he came back the second time, didn't provide adequate isolation gear, didn't provide training, and didn't pick up bio-waste that was piling up in the room "to the ceiling".

The hospital seems to have absolutely dropped the ball with Duncan's treatment. I can only hope that vital lessons have been learned, and that no one else dies because of their negligence.

We don't know when she started with symptoms though.

**Jihadin**

Frazzled wrote:
Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Second Ebola patient took flight day before checking into hospital.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-outbreak-2nd-health-care-worker-with-disease-in-dallas-took-plane-day-before-symptoms-showed

I think news like that is mainly clickbait. People infected with Ebola are not contagious until they start displaying symptoms. It is however concerning as had the patient become symptomatic on a plane then (s)he could have infected many others due to the droplets from their breath and the number of people in close proximity.

d-usa wrote:
The complaints are coming from a Texas nursing union that's not active at the hospital who states that they have received complaints from nurses who are working there, so there is always a grain of salt since it's some hear-say.

But the reports are that the hospital still let the guy sit around other patients for multiple hours even when he came back the second time, didn't provide adequate isolation gear, didn't provide training, and didn't pick up bio-waste that was piling up in the room "to the ceiling".

The hospital seems to have absolutely dropped the ball with Duncan's treatment. I can only hope that vital lessons have been learned, and that no one else dies because of their negligence.

We don't know when she started with symptoms though.

Relax..even Fox News (Shep) is saying not to get hysterical crazy (Peter) over this. Now if you were in the infection zone your screwed blued and tattoo'ed

**Dreadclaw69**

Frazzled wrote:
Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Second Ebola patient took flight day before checking into hospital.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-outbreak-2nd-health-care-worker-with-disease-in-dallas-took-plane-day-before-symptoms-showed

I think news like that is mainly clickbait. People infected with Ebola are not contagious until they start displaying symptoms. It is however concerning as had the patient become symptomatic on a plane then (s)he could have infected many others due to the droplets from their breath and the number of people in close proximity.

d-usa wrote:
The complaints are coming from a Texas nursing union that's not active at the hospital who states that they have received complaints from nurses who are working there, so there is always a grain of salt since it's some hear-say.

But the reports are that the hospital still let the guy sit around other patients for multiple hours even when he came back the second time, didn't provide adequate isolation gear, didn't provide training, and didn't pick up bio-waste that was piling up in the room "to the ceiling".

The hospital seems to have absolutely dropped the ball with Duncan's treatment. I can only hope that vital lessons have been learned, and that no one else dies because of their negligence.

We don't know when she started with symptoms though.

From the title of the article, and the text itself, she showed symptoms the day after the flight ;
"The second health care worker to test positive for Ebola in Dallas traveled by air the day before presenting symptoms and being isolated, the CDC announced Wednesday."

**Jihadin**

Fortress DakkaDakka........time to re-visit that thread and go over the ideas

**Frazzled**

I've decided that when the ZOmbie Games begin I'm going to the Alamo.

1. Near water.
2. No one will expect it.
3. This time Zombie Santa Anna will be no match for high powered rifle wielding Texican.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

From the title of the article, and the text itself, she showed symptoms the day after the flight ;
"The second health care worker to test positive for Ebola in Dallas traveled by air the day before presenting symptoms and being isolated, the CDC announced Wednesday."

Ok good deal.

**Ensis Ferrae**

I friend of mine shared a video from the Sean Hannity FB page.... The "expert" virologist that Hannity had on claims that "we have clear evidence that shows the ebola virus can enter the lungs through the airways"

yeah... This isn't gonna keep anyone from Wiggin out

**Jihadin**

Think all the Wiggins in the country is buying heavy duty plastic sheets and duck tape and sealing up their houses......minus airways.....and lot's of potted plants

**RatBot**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I friend of mine shared a video from the Sean Hannity FB page.... The "expert" virologist that Hannity had on claims that "we have clear evidence that shows the ebola virus can enter the lungs through the airways"

Well, sure it can... if you inhale an infected person's blood or feces. Of course, if you're doing that then you've got problems other than ebola, which could range from severe mental illness to simply being literally the unluckiest person on earth.

Man, even a google search shows that ebola isn't airborne and is only transmittable via direct contact with bodily fluids. "Virologist" indeed.

**Jihadin**

Fecal matter can be airborne.

**RatBot**

Yeah, but there's a big difference between particles of fecal matter float in the air and actual piles of feces. You're not going to get ebola from airborne fecal matter unless someone's literally flinging turds everywhere.

**ScootyPuffJunior**

Jihadin wrote:
Think all the Wiggins in the country is buying heavy duty plastic sheets and duck tape and sealing up their houses......minus airways.....and lot's of potted plants

No wonder Peter hasn't posted in this thread for a while... he's down the street from me at Dulles International Airport!

AOL wrote:Air travelers wary of Ebola fears seen with surgical masks ... and a HAZMAT suit

Airline travelers worried about Ebola are taking matters into their own hands over fears healthcare officials have underestimated the virus.

Pictures posted to social media show a number of people arriving at airports with surgical masks and gloves on. One person wore an entire HAZMAT suit.

The images appeared following days of false alarms at the nation's airports, and also after a second healthcare worker in Dallas was revealed to have contracted the Ebola virus.

Amber Vinson, the second person to contract the deadly virus in the U.S., was also found to have made a round-trip flight from Dallas to Cleveland, returning the day before she was put into isolation at Texan Health Presbyterian hospital.

The person wearing a HAZMAT suit was photographed sitting in a departures lounge at Dulles International Airport, in Washington. D.C. The image was first spotted by the Daily Caller.

wo other passengers tweeted a picture wearing surgical masks at the Frontier gate within Cleveland's Hopkins International Airport.

Workers at the same gate were photographed by WEWS wearing rubber gloves.

Multiple other people were shown in both Cleveland and Dallas wearing surgical masks.

The planes Vinson traveled on have been thoroughly scrubbed multiple times since she was on them, Frontier Airlines announced earlier today.

But with two people diagnosed and more than 100 other possible exposures, passengers are clearly weary of officials' assurances they are safe.

source

**d-usa**

I think that we are currently treating it as "droplet", which is somewhat of an intermediary between airborne (what the medical community truly mean whey they say airborne) and not-airborne.

Basically, if you have infectious body fluids in your nose/mouth/throat/lungs then a cough or a sneeze can cause those liquids to become aerosolized and travel "through the air" as far as the cough or sneeze will carry it. The droplets will then drop to the ground (or whatever surface), unlike true airborne pathogens which will stay in suspension and actually travel through the air.

So if you are on an airplane with a disease that is airborne then you can get everyone sick, but if it's droplet then you can spread it only to the people within a few feet of you.

I don't think there is concrete proof yet that Ebola is spread via droplets, but it's plausible enough and the extra precautions (eye protection and face mask) are not that cumbersome.

**Jihadin**

Now I can see violence if someone sneezes on someone and the other force them to get tested for Ebola at gun point

**loki old fart**

I wonder how long before someone (terrorist or loony) sprays blood from a high building, and causes mass panic.

**AgeOfEgos**

It's clear that either there are very bad nurses at that hospital--or piss poor administration. Perhaps it's the nurse tribalism in me but I would think the concern of their own safety would be incentive enough to follow protocols---and administration/nurse leadership is at fault.

Also, whomever at the CDC that took that call and didn't prevent/tell her to not board the plane--is an idiot.

**d-usa**

I could imagine that the CDC might not have he authority to actually stop her, I'm getting some flashbacks to the whole TB thing from a few years back.

**whembly**

I thought the CDC doesn't have authority to stop anyone without local/federal law enforcements? o.O

**d-usa**

It seems like it might be double complicated since she didn't have EVD until after she flew.

I know with the TB guy they didn't have authority while he had TB while in the US, but once he was a TB patient that entered the US they could force him into quarantine. But he also had active disease and not a potential infection.

It should have been common sense on her part to keep of a plane, but I wonder what authority the CDC has to actually enforce it.

**Dreadclaw69**

AgeOfEgos wrote:
It's clear that either there are very bad nurses at that hospital--or piss poor administration. Perhaps it's the nurse tribalism in me but I would think the concern of their own safety would be incentive enough to follow protocols---and administration/nurse leadership is at fault.

Also, whomever at the CDC that took that call and didn't prevent/tell her to not board the plane--is an idiot.

About as stupid as NBC's Dr. Snyderman violating her isolation agreement to allegedly go to a drive through

**Jihadin**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
AgeOfEgos wrote:
It's clear that either there are very bad nurses at that hospital--or piss poor administration. Perhaps it's the nurse tribalism in me but I would think the concern of their own safety would be incentive enough to follow protocols---and administration/nurse leadership is at fault.

Also, whomever at the CDC that took that call and didn't prevent/tell her to not board the plane--is an idiot.

About as stupid as NBC's Dr. Snyderman violating her isolation agreement to allegedly go to a drive through

She got fired as a medical reporter

**AgeOfEgos**

d-usa wrote:
It seems like it might be double complicated since she didn't have EVD until after she flew.

I know with the TB guy they didn't have authority while he had TB while in the US, but once he was a TB patient that entered the US they could force him into quarantine. But he also had active disease and not a potential infection.

It should have been common sense on her part to keep of a plane, but I wonder what authority the CDC has to actually enforce it.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/index.html

From the language, it appears they can--but were choosing not to. It reminds me of the Dallas apartment fiasco, where the doctor in charge of monitoring other inhabitants of the complex would show up to take their temperatures--and find no one home. Right now, the CDC appears to be just reacting to situations, rather than proactively taking steps...which of course, is not something you like to see in leadership. This gave me a WTF moment;

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that Vinson called the agency several times before flying, saying that she had a fever with a temperature of 99.5 degrees. But because her fever wasn't 100.4 degrees or higher, she didn't officially fall into the group of "high risk" and was allowed to fly.

If a nurse that cared for an ebola patient, that has a temperature calls the CDC several times---and doesn't fall into a 'high risk' category because according to their chart it requires a 100.4 temperature---then they need to rethink their common sense approach to this. Did she take her temperature correctly? Did she use an oral too soon after drinking water? Is a home thermometer qualified enough to cut her out from 'high risk' because of a 0.9 degree difference according to their chart? Pretty mind boggling.

The only thing I can assume, is that everyone involved in these cases that has made astoundingly stupid decisions---are too afraid of appearing as foolish or fearful. Every mistake so far could have been stopped by someone, really anyone, just stopping a moment and saying "I understand that this might be overly cautious but let's talk about this a bit because I'd rather look silly and be wrong then feel cowardly and be right".