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But on Thursday, Dr. Chris Braden of the CDC told reporters in Ohio that "we have started to look at the possibility that she had symptoms going back as far as Saturday. ... We can't rule out (that) she might have had the start of her illness on Friday."

"So this new information now is saying we need to go back now to the flight that she took on Friday the 10th and include them in our investigation of contacts," he said.

They really do not know as much about this virus, its incubation period, etc as they lead us to believe. The guy admits as much.

They have been preaching and drilling into people this notion of a 21 day incubation period. Guess what folks...sounds and looks like someone may have had it incubate sooner....

"Oh...we never believed it possible to incubate sooner than 21 days. But now...hey...our bad.. we guess its *possible*."

Hubris such as this will be the downfall of man.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/17/health/us-ebola/index.html

If the disease has been around for 30 years they should know this gak. If it has mutated then they should quit with the old assumptions. Its killing people.

Any disease can vary it's incubation period. These are average numbers, not hard fast laws. Incubations can be longer or shorter depending on the person's genetic susceptibility, immune response, the infective dose, a bajillion factors can influence it.

Similarly, while someone would not be shedding large amounts of virus before they are symtomatic, there is still a possibility that they could pass it on in the period directly before. It's a pretty low possibility but it exists. Biology is a science with a lot of grey area and margin for error.

So I'd say we do "know" this stuff, but communicating nuance through a panicked and sensationalising national media is pretty difficult.

 TheMeanDM wrote:

But on Thursday, Dr. Chris Braden of the CDC told reporters in Ohio that "we have started to look at the possibility that she had symptoms going back as far as Saturday. ... We can't rule out (that) she might have had the start of her illness on Friday."

"So this new information now is saying we need to go back now to the flight that she took on Friday the 10th and include them in our investigation of contacts," he said.

They really do not know as much about this virus, its incubation period, etc as they lead us to believe. The guy admits as much.

Nothing that has happened has been to the contrary of any of the knowledge that we have about the disease. The guy isn't saying anything that you think he is. All he is saying is "based on what she initially told us we determined that her symptoms started on this day, after interviewing her and others we now suspect that her symptoms started that day.

They have been preaching and drilling into people this notion of a 21 day incubation period. Guess what folks...sounds and looks like someone may have had it incubate sooner....

Apparently they need to preach louder, because you are not understanding what they are saying.

"Oh...we never believed it possible to incubate sooner than 21 days. But now...hey...our bad.. we guess its *possible*."

Listen, if you are going to freak out at least make a minimum effort to at least learn a little bit about what you are freaking out about. It's not like we haven't covered this multiple times in this thread already.

1) NOBODY every said that the incubation period takes exactly 21 days. In fact, we know for a fact that it varies between 2 and 21 days. This is nothing new. This is nothing unexpected. "You will get sick at 21 days" is not what people are talking about when they are talking about a 21 day incubation period. If it were we would tell people to do whatever they want, and then report to a doctor on Day 20 to get checked out. Instead we instruct people to self isolate from day 1 and check for symptoms frequently.
2) The 21 days deals with the maximum. If you don't develop symptoms in 21 days, then you are safe. That's why people talk about the 21 days: it's the time frame that you have to be monitored, and ideally isolated (which is something that we have yet to actually enforce in any kind of meaningful way).

Don't be surprised about shorter incubation period, it's nothing new.

Hubris such as this will be the downfall of man.

Panic will be the downfall of man.

Like I said: the fact that the only people that got sick so far were two people that were elbow deep in body fluids (out of a great number of people that have treated Ebola patients so far in the US) says a whole bunch about how difficult it is to actually catch this thing. It has been 17+ days since his family last had contact with Duncan, and none of them have developed symptoms. The ambulance crew that transported 17+ days ago has not developed any symptoms.

Who says I'm panicking? Lol

I am just angry that the government/CDC appears to be floundering and doing a lot of apologizing for ignorance and common sense mistakes...like..allowing that lady to fly.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Who says I'm panicking? Lol

I am just angry that the government/CDC appears to be floundering and doing a lot of apologizing for ignorance and common sense mistakes...like..allowing that lady to fly.

Floundering? Are you fething serious?

Two people caught the disease. Two. Let me write that again, so it can sink in a little: TWO PEOPLE CAUGHT EBOLA IN THE US

Where is the freak out over the 20 kids that died from pertussis in 2012, or the 17,325 cases of it in the first eight months of 2014 alone (30% more than last year)? Pertussis a completely preventable disease in this country that idiots refuse to vaccinate against and no one gives a gak that it kills kids and babies, but we're going to grill the CDC because two nurse caught Ebola out of the hundreds of civilians and medical professionals that have treated and been in contact with patients in the US?

This is getting so beyond stupid...

Mod hat on:

This has been an interesting discussion and while we can get passionate, gently ribbing each other over differences in opinion---we need to tone down our posts a bit--or the thread will unfortunately be closed. People will have different opinions than yourself from time to time, this is inevitable and part of experiencing the internet--there is no need to chide/insult or yell at others when this occurs.

So when does public health safety starts becoming the ruling on violating individual rights. You have all the people that was on the flight then all those people were who flew on the same flight (five legs of flight). Do we keep tab on them or just "roll the dice"

So, my dad is in healthcare. He's also the kind of person who treats every bug (in the family) as a light sniffle-so getting sick and staying home from school was always tough. I asked him his opinion, expecting a snarky reply. I got a very serious response to be careful, and wash after everything. He's nervous. I'm aware of it, and while I'm not running for a sealed bunker, I'm less calm and jokey than I was before I talked with him. Should we panic? No. But take it seriously.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
So, my dad is in healthcare. He's also the kind of person who treats every bug (in the family) as a light sniffle-so getting sick and staying home from school was always tough. I asked him his opinion, expecting a snarky reply. I got a very serious response to be careful, and wash after everything. He's nervous. I'm aware of it, and while I'm not running for a sealed bunker, I'm less calm and jokey than I was before I talked with him. Should we panic? No. But take it seriously.

No one has said to not take is seriously; quite the contrary, it's a deadly and serious disease. Mistakes were made, people got sick, gak happens. It's unfortunate but it's the reality of healthcare (and life, really).

The proper response should be measured and calm. Unfortunately, conspiracy theories and outright lies spread a lot faster than logic and truth.

I remember a similar thread awhile back about Small Pox.....crap happens but hey its "there"

Agreed. Basically, I won't be asking "are we all undead Ebola zombies" anymore, but I'll be paying attention. I knew it was a "serious" disease, as it can kill people. But I figured it would stop at the one isolated case. Based on the fact that its started moving out, it's worth being serious. Not panicking that it's the next Outbreak, but jut being aware.

If it hits Latin America we are so so screwed

 Jihadin wrote:
If it hits Latin America we are so so screwed

Not really.

SARS was in some extremely densely populated area and was able to be controlled.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
If it hits Latin America we are so so screwed

Not really.

SARS was in some extremely densely populated area and was able to be controlled.

China can do that. What is one major issue we are having with right now with Latin America.

Good commentary:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/17/us/ebola-provocative-quotes/index.html?c=homepage-t

Now if they would only follow their own advice...

 d-usa wrote:
Good commentary:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/17/us/ebola-provocative-quotes/index.html?c=homepage-t

Now if they would only follow their own advice...

Which bit of their own advice should they follow. They seem to be in two minds ATM.
They're not even sure if pets can carry the disease.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/14/health/ebola-pets/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

Another example of stuff that is killing people on a regular basis but which isn't creating the kind of news hyperbole as Ebola:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/17/health/california-student-meningitis-death/index.html?c=us&page=2

And this is why people need to get vaccinated. My college makes you get vaccinated if you want to live in the dorms. And possibly go to class as well.

We covered making spammy jokes, here's another summary. Don't.

'Feverish' Colchester Hospital patient isolated as Ebola precaution

The patient arrived at the hospital having returned to the UK from east Africa via Amsterdam

A "feverish" man has been placed in isolation at a hospital in Essex as he undergoes a series of tests having returned to the UK from east Africa.

The man presented himself to the accident and emergency unit of Colchester General about 08:30 BST.

A spokesman said: "It is very, very, very, unlikely to be Ebola as he has not been to any of the countries where it is reported."

The hospital said he had been placed into isolation purely as a precaution.
Notice wasn't sent home, with a couple of pills, to maybe infect others.
isolated and under observation. +1 for the NHS.

It's easier to just keep him for a day to test and then go "oops, he didn't have it" than it is to deal with upset people if you let him go.

If they ever get those quick-tests this situation will be a lot easier on everybody. With flu-season coming soon no hospital will have the beds for all those "suspected Ebola" patients.

Not an intended spammy joke. PM sent as to why.

 d-usa wrote:
It's easier to just keep him for a day to test and then go "oops, he didn't have it" than it is to deal with upset people if you let him go.

If they ever get those quick-tests this situation will be a lot easier on everybody. With flu-season coming soon no hospital will have the beds for all those "suspected Ebola" patients.

Agreed. But we haven't, so better safe than sorry

Loki, I don't blame them at all for doing that after our fiasco with Duncan.

Another good article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/how-the-microscopic-ebola-virus-kills-thousands/2014/10/18/6e21bdec-561b-11e4-809b-8cc0a295c773_story.html

And it includes something that I have already suspected but have not seen mentioned anywhere: the two sick nurses cared for him when he was "just" a guy with diarrhea and vomiting, and not a guy with Ebola. Which, in my experience, would indicate that they were a lot less stringent with following precautions.

 d-usa wrote:
Another good article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/how-the-microscopic-ebola-virus-kills-thousands/2014/10/18/6e21bdec-561b-11e4-809b-8cc0a295c773_story.html

And it includes something that I have already suspected but have not seen mentioned anywhere: the two sick nurses cared for him when he was "just" a guy with diarrhea and vomiting, and not a guy with Ebola. Which, in my experience, would indicate that they were a lot less stringent with following precautions.

Which gives credence to he was already infectious when he got there. And everybody at the airport, hospital, his home, should be screened.

 loki old fart wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Another good article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/how-the-microscopic-ebola-virus-kills-thousands/2014/10/18/6e21bdec-561b-11e4-809b-8cc0a295c773_story.html

And it includes something that I have already suspected but have not seen mentioned anywhere: the two sick nurses cared for him when he was "just" a guy with diarrhea and vomiting, and not a guy with Ebola. Which, in my experience, would indicate that they were a lot less stringent with following precautions.

Which gives credence to he was already infectious when he got there. And everybody at the airport, hospital, his home, should be screened.

Have you followed this thread (or story) at all?

He was contagious when he was admitted to the hospital, and there have been zero claims that he wasn't. He wasn't sick in the plane(s) he took to get to Dallas, so no one needed to be quarantined. All of the people he as in contact with were under observation and the only two people that got sick were the nurses tending to him, which is fits with how the disease is most easily spread.

It gives credence that he was infectious and that two people who were elbows deep in his stool and vomit without the knowledge that he had Ebola ended up getting infected.

The fact that every other person he had contact with, including the person he shared his bed with, is still without symptoms should be much more significant. We know that because we are screening all the people that had contact with him prior to this, and the people that they had contact with. But "people who had extensive contact with Ebola patient didn't catch Ebola" isn't a good headline I guess.

 d-usa wrote:
Another good article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/how-the-microscopic-ebola-virus-kills-thousands/2014/10/18/6e21bdec-561b-11e4-809b-8cc0a295c773_story.html

And it includes something that I have already suspected but have not seen mentioned anywhere: the two sick nurses cared for him when he was "just" a guy with diarrhea and vomiting, and not a guy with Ebola. Which, in my experience, would indicate that they were a lot less stringent with following precautions.

While the test was not back yet, the two nurses treating Duncan at that time were wearing full hazmat suits and treating him as if he had ebola.

http://outfront.blogs.cnn.com/2014/10/14/nurses-friend-ebola-patient-nina-pham-was-wearing-hazmat-suit/

Even the CDC is not sure how they contracted the virus--but it was likely due to improper protocols while removing PPE, although the nurses were adamant they followed proper procedure (which makes me question the procedure).