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This thought occurred to me lately, namely whether - if the Emperor had named any of the other loyalist primarchs as warmaster, they could have also been corrupted to chaos like Horus or not.

After all, Horus was only corrupted after being mortally wounded by a daemon weapon and then "healed" via a most foul daemonic ritual on Davin's moon.

Had such a wound + ritual been administed to any loyalist primarch, would they also have fallen to Chaos?

 Sir Arun wrote:
This thought occurred to me lately, namely whether - if the Emperor had named any of the other loyalist primarchs as warmaster, they could have also been corrupted to chaos like Horus or not.

After all, Horus was only corrupted after being mortally wounded by a daemon weapon and then "healed" via a most foul daemonic ritual on Davin's moon.

Had such a wound + ritual been administed to any loyalist primarch, would they also have fallen to Chaos?

That more or less depends on the primarch. I feel as if Gulliman would have resisted, Vulkan wouldnt have noticed, being perpetual, Russ and Dorn would have told Chaos to feth itsself and Sanguinius would have seen it all coming. The other three may have fallen to the whispers, Ferrus was one of the guys on the back burner and didnt get so much special attention, The Lion was more or less on the verge of going chaotic to begin with, and half his legion did anyway. Khan? Dont really know with this guy. Maybe maybe not.

Tzeentch tried tempting the Lion, but failed. Duty to the Emprah was enough.

No. The purest of primarchs IMO are sanguinius and or Dorn. ( even though he went insane.)

 raiden wrote:
No. The purest of primarchs IMO are sanguinius and or Dorn. ( even though he went insane.)

How did Dorn go insane? He just got really angry enough to go on a crusade to restore the Imperium.

Just going from memory, I don't think it was the wound/healing that was supposed to have turned Horus. It was the visions shown to him while healing by Erebus&co of what the Imperium would become that caused him to betray the Emperor.

In that regard, Horus is really the only Primarch such a scheme would work on. Every Primarch represents a facet of the Emperor. Horus mirrors his ambition and special brand of charisma. The lies whispered to him in his dream appeal to this sense of ambition and vision. Only Horus would take that and try to change the galaxy.

I think the heresy fluff suffers more from the poor writing of that one scene than anything else. It does not come off as Horus being convinced of Emperors ill effect on the galaxy and seeing civil war as the only option. He comes off petty and illogical.

 Envihon wrote:

 raiden wrote:
No. The purest of primarchs IMO are sanguinius and or Dorn. ( even though he went insane.)

How did Dorn go insane? He just got really angry enough to go on a crusade to restore the Imperium.

It wasn't really to restore the Imperium. It was a depression and guilt fueled crusade of vengeance against this traitorous brothers. There was very little constructive about it!

Dorn didn't go insane.

He was always insane. His madness was far more insidious than Angron or Curze's, but it was far greater in scale.

Are you being funny Void or serious?

Yes.

Yes? lol

Yes to which or both?

Correct!

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Dorn didn't go insane.

He was always insane. His madness was far more insidious than Angron or Curze's, but it was far greater in scale.

I concur. Dorn, was 40k in 30k. He'd kill the innocents to keep things "pure". He could never go to chaos, as he's the one who is on the side of order, yet chokingly so.

Horus problem was he was glory hungry. He was never going to be happy being second best to his father. His fall was inevitable.

Few primarchs I would rate as capable of resisting chaos if pushed. Ferrus maybe.

Guillimans has basically already committed treason in the heresy series.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Dorn didn't go insane.

He was always insane. His madness was far more insidious than Angron or Curze's, but it was far greater in scale.

I would disagree especially considering the character development he has received in the audio dramas. Dorn suffers from believing in what the Emperor was doing for the good of mankind and watching it being torn down in a blink of an eye.

I believe Horus was a near perfect general for the crusades, that's why the Emperor chose him. Then the Emperor left the fight and went back to Terra, Horus felt abandoned. Then concerns about Estartes' mission after the crusades, they were literally bred for war. The demons used jealousy, rage, fear of the unknown and peaceful future, doubt, envy, Subtle weapons to undermine humans. Now if the perfect Sanguinius had been the Warmaster Im sure the chaos demons would have attempted some foothold against him, and we would have a similar story, then again maybe not, maybe Sanguinius would have prevailed. Then we wouldn't have a wargame to play, because without war and the grim darkness of the future, we would be SOL.

This story if related to the Christian bible is the same in the way that the highest most perfect Angel fell to evil, taking a third of the Angels with him into darkness to fight against all that he hates.

I'm rereading the Heresy to catch up with the books written more recently, it's an excellent series in my opinion. Great thread, great ideas! I like to see the bias remarks. I'm bias for my Blood Angels and their primarch... If you couldn't tell.

Abaddon doesn't think so...

in fact Abaddon considers Horus a weakling and a failure for failing the horus heresy



its amazing if you think about it.... current timeline 40k....Abaddon has acheived more then any primarch

LightKing wrote:
Abaddon doesn't think so...

in fact Abaddon considers Horus a weakling and a failure for failing the horus heresy



its amazing if you think about it.... current timeline 40k....Abaddon has acheived more then any primarch

yet he is still faibaddon the armless and harmless

The primarchs and emperor reconqured the majority of the galaxy... I think they may have one over on Abbadon with that.

I think all the Primarchs and Marines had the potential to fall because there was a brewing issue that the Great Crusade had never explored or dealt with before, and which ultimately IMO precipitated the Heresy.

That issue is the struggle for civilian control of the military within the Imperium, and ultimately what kind of Imperium it would be. The Primarchs are all basically warlords, with vast personal armies and fleets. Part of the discontent stemmed from their unwillingness to submit to the civilian administrative structure of the new Imperium. Their own reasons vary but underlying it all is often a streak of feeling themselves better than normal humanity, and that therefore they should be the ones in charge. We can see the result of this in the societies of the Chaos Space Marines in the Eye of Terror which generally have the CSM as a ruling warrior class with normal humans as downtrodden slaves and expendable cannon fodder.

Thematically the Heresy is a take on the Christian War in Heaven myth with Horus filling the role of Lucifer. Like the War in Heaven, the Heresy can be viewed as a refusal by superior "angelic" beings to submit to and serve a perceived inferior species (humanity in both cases).

In 2nd edition, there was reference to this theme with a Blood Angel Marine during the 2nd War for Armageddon reflecting that despite being physically superior to the Guardsmen accompanying him, the purpose of the Space Marines was to serve the rest of humanity and that the Chaos Space Marines had fallen because they had forgotten/rejected that.

Well it makes sence if he was like his daddy then he would want to rule over everyone like a demigod aswell.

 raiden wrote:
No. The purest of primarchs IMO are sanguinius and or Dorn. ( even though he went insane.)

This.

The Emperor didn't choose Horus as Warmaster because he was the purest, he simply chose him because he was the most well liked while also an effective negotiator and commander.