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Well you have
Generic Crons
Triarch Crons
Canoptek units
Crazy Flayed Ones

A force of all Canoptek units could be a fluffy, before the True Necrons awake kind of force.

A Triarch heavy force, maybe dissalows the crazies and critters ?

A flayed one force would have to have enough special rules to make them be awesome, to get anyone to fork over for all that failcast.

 adamsouza wrote:
Well you have
Generic Crons
Triarch Crons
Canoptek units
Crazy Flayed Ones

A force of all Canoptek units could be a fluffy, before the True Necrons awake kind of force.

A Triarch heavy force, maybe dissalows the crazies and critters ?

A flayed one force would have to have enough special rules to make them be awesome, to get anyone to fork over for all that failcast.

Yeah, but a ton of those units are made to work in support of each other.

"Lots a units that work together? Lets make sure they can't do that"

 RivenSkull wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Well you have
Generic Crons
Triarch Crons
Canoptek units
Crazy Flayed Ones

A force of all Canoptek units could be a fluffy, before the True Necrons awake kind of force.

A Triarch heavy force, maybe dissalows the crazies and critters ?

A flayed one force would have to have enough special rules to make them be awesome, to get anyone to fork over for all that failcast.

Yeah, but a ton of those units are made to work in support of each other.

"Lots a units that work together? Lets make sure they can't do that"

Unless they update the unit entries so they are not so heavily dependent on other units as backup.

Also, don't forget the Destroyer Cults!
Can you imagine? The hosts of the Red Harvest, lead by Executioner Ezandrakh?
Solemnace and Sautekh be damned! Let the galaxy be turned to ash!

 skoffs wrote:

Unless they update the unit entries so they are not so heavily dependent on other units as backup.

Also, don't forget the Destroyer Cults!
Can you imagine? The hosts of the Red Harvest, lead by Executioner Ezandrakh?
Solemnace and Sautekh be damned! Let the galaxy be turned to ash!

You expect them to update the units?

All I expect are special rule nerfs, a few point increases, wraiths getting a 4++ armor, and splitting up the units into other supplements.

The consensus seems to be there will be price increases (eg. Night Scythe), price decreases (eg. Destroyers), stat buffs (eg. C'tan), stat nerfs (eg. Wraiths), slot changes (eg. Flayed Ones), new Warlord table, wargear switch around (something bad happen to MSS, but some sort of anti psyker tech added), and the introduction of these new "Dynasty tactics" (bonuses and restrictions, depending on which Necron Dynasty you decide you build your army around).

Granted, most of these are merely educated guesses on the part of the community as a whole, but it would be pretty surprising if the writers drastically deviated from those guesses.

I think the Dynasty tactics are fake, personally.

GW will give them formations and call it a day, imo. "You want special fluffy rules? Take a formation. You want FoC shenanigans like making X troops? Play Unbound." says GW.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I think the Dynasty tactics are fake, personally.

GW will give them formations and call it a day, imo. "You want special fluffy rules? Take a formation. You want FoC shenanigans like making X troops? Play Unbound." says GW.

LoW has a good track record though, and I doubt they'd put out information unless they were REALLY sure that the info is accurate.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I think the Dynasty tactics are fake, personally.

GW will give them formations and call it a day, imo. "You want special fluffy rules? Take a formation. You want FoC shenanigans like making X troops? Play Unbound." says GW.

LoW has a good track record though, and I doubt they'd put out information unless they were REALLY sure that the info is accurate.

Agreed. If this turned out to be fake, it would hurt their otherwise stellar reputation.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I think the Dynasty tactics are fake, personally.

GW will give them formations and call it a day, imo. "You want special fluffy rules? Take a formation. You want FoC shenanigans like making X troops? Play Unbound." says GW.

LoW has a good track record though, and I doubt they'd put out information unless they were REALLY sure that the info is accurate.

Then it probably doesn't mean what many think it does because GW has really worked hard to remove any fineflavor™ from each codex before release resulting in many special rules being removed and/or replaced with big rulebook USRs. Additionally, all the "X HQ = FOC shenanigans" have been removed as well, except for dataslates to some extent.

The rumor could simply mean that some units have been completely reworked or moved to different slots.

I just realized they took down the 2010 release Dark Eldar Archon and Succubus after they released the new plastic versions. I guess this confirms that they want to phase out finecast like metal now, but... Those were some really good models. Hate to see them go. If I were an Orks player I'd buy that old painboy with the separated grot orderly before they're out of stock. The same with pretty much every Commissar model aside from the new one if I were an IG player.

I can see this going the same way as the DE. With the Coven you have all elites and no troop requirements but you don't have any fast or OS units. I see a pattern developing here hehe

I dunno, man,

"There will be a major change to FoC in this codex."
"There will be a lot of stuff covering the Dynasties. This is important because they will affect how you can build your armies."
"I can't be too specific, but the dynasties will allow certain units to be taken and given certain bonuses."

Sounds like a pretty decent change up. Definitely more than a simple "move unit A to category B" switch around, if choosing a Dynasty will affect they way you can build your army/what bonuses you are granted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, someone elsewhere raised an interesting point:
"If the current power army is Eldar, and GW wanted to do something to knock them down a peg, wouldn't using their arch nemesis, the Necrons, be a good way of doing so?"
Now, granted, that would mean GW using some measure of sense (something they're not exactly known for), but it could heavily depend on who wrote the book.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I think the Dynasty tactics are fake, personally.

GW will give them formations and call it a day, imo. "You want special fluffy rules? Take a formation. You want FoC shenanigans like making X troops? Play Unbound." says GW.

Quoted for Truth


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skoffs wrote:

Also, someone elsewhere raised an interesting point:
"If the current power army is Eldar, and GW wanted to do something to knock them down a peg, wouldn't using their arch nemesis, the Necrons, be a good way of doing so?"
Now, granted, that would mean GW using some measure of sense (something they're not exactly known for), but it could heavily depend on who wrote the book.

Ok, we have scarabs... who could possibly take out wave serpents if they survive the eldar alpha strike... but we still struggle to kill anything with Wraith in the name. Once again I complain that Necrons, as ancients, haven't figured out how to kill MC's (after we've taken down all the C'Tan) nor 3+ armor (after the wars against other Necrons, Eldar, and the Old Ones)?

 adamsouza wrote:
A flayed one force would have to have enough special rules to make them be awesome, to get anyone to fork over for all that failcast.

DE Mandrakes were in the same terrible boat as Flayed Ones before, but they threw enough special rules at them that Mandrakes are no longer terrible (wyches took over that job)
Flayed Ones will probably pick up Fear and say Move through cover. Maybe drop an attack but gain rending.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
A flayed one force would have to have enough special rules to make them be awesome, to get anyone to fork over for all that failcast.

DE Mandrakes were in the same terrible boat as Flayed Ones before, but they threw enough special rules at them that Mandrakes are no longer terrible (wyches took over that job)
Flayed Ones will probably pick up Fear and say Move through cover. Maybe drop an attack but gain rending.

Rending might be a bit much. Shred would probably be a bit more reasonable, as well as fitting with the fluff.
Fear + the option to give them Shred, in addition to their current rules (deep strike, infiltrate, reanimation protocols) would be enough to make them worth considering. Make them troops as well and you're gonna be seeing a lot more Flayed Ones on tables.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
... speculating doesn't count as wishlisting, right?
(don't want to get the thread locked)

This thread is basically 99% wishlisting. So here let me add some practical guesses:

Any one thinking necrons will get major buffs is dreaming.

MSS will vanish

Crypteks/lords become either or unit leader upgrades while court vanishes.

Tesla will become living lightning

AB's go up while doomsday arks drop in pts

Night scythes will go up in points and become FA making ghost arcs the number one transport option.

Death-ray gets 100% rework since it's too absurd rules wise.

Invasion beams will use reserves much like monolyths

CCB's will probably get their own entry besides destroyer lords and overlords rather then be an upgrade and will have extremely limited options I am guessing. Read, no phase shifter.

Living metal becomes IWND

RP will probably change again, it has never stayed the same now in three printings. Best guess? Probably FnP 5+ res orbs make it a 4+ for unit. Everliving gains it will not die/EW.

Monolyths, c'tan and flayed ones remain useless or over priced or useless and over priced.

Add some form of formation + a detachment along with Phaeron edition printing that contains a dynasty supplement 2 weeks early for a meager 300 bucks.

People will cry bloody murder but in the end Necrons will measure up really well with the other 7th releases that have largely toned down power creep.

Anyone expecting let alone wanting Necrons to over power Eldar is asking for a Joseph Stalin to over throw Adolf Hitler. Lets hope they get a solid release and once everyone has had an update they rework Eldar instead.

Stalin did overthrow Hitler.

I don't believe any hardcover codex has been nerfed as hard as people are predicting the Necron codex will.

What does the Necron codex have got going for it ?
Reanimation Protocol
Scythes
Mind Shackle Scarabs
Anhilation Barges
Telsa (which isn't great, just the most useful weapon to snapfire)
Death Ray (which isn't great, just most useful against invisibile)
Command Barge (which works like the SW chariot)

What do Necron critics want to see nerfed ?
Reanimation Protocol
Scythes
Mind Shackle Scarabs
Anhilation Barges
Telsa (Beacause it's useful when snap firing)
Death Ray (Becasue it's useful against invisibile)
Command Barge (becasue it gets a ++ save from the overlord)

Lots of wishlisting here. But no one can really predict. The truth is that GW is a fluff designer first and a game designer second, which means anything goes, and no one can predict.

I think those of you who are thinking that GW will lay some giant nerfhammer on necrons are kidding themselves. It just doesn't make business sense to write a codex that will reduce sales. There will be buffs and nerfs for sure, but not just nerfs.

The only thing that one can say for sure is that a necron player will have to replace 33-50% of his army to stay competitive when the new codex hits and I don't have a problem with that. It's just the way it goes. GW has got to sell models and don't mislead yourself into thinking that a new codex is anything except a mover of models first and foremost. Again, I don't have a problem with that. I like collecting necrons and expanding my collection and exploring new strategies.

So what am I going to have to get? Monoliths? doomsday arks? flayed ones? stalkers? praetorians? lych guards? c'tan shards? destroyers?

And what's going on the shelf? Wraiths? Annihilation barges? Scarabs? Deathmarks? Spyders?

The other thing that will almost for sure happen is that Night Scythes will become an FA choice in addition to a dedicated transport. Seems to be the 7th edition trend these days with all the drop pods and web way portals going around.

And after all that shuffling around will the necron be more powerful or less powerful? The best business decision for GW to make is to place necrons a little above space marines in potency which is approximately where they are right now. So meditate on that all you giant necron nerfhammer wishlisters.

Anyone remember how far before the Gray Knights codex came out that the leaks started coming through?
I'm just trying to figure out when abouts we should be expecting to see concrete details for 'Crons.
(eg. "If the most reliable rumor mongers place the dex as Jan '15, we should start seeing leaks around _____.")

In the mean time, any new non-wishlisting info will continue to get added to the top post as it trickles through.

following what they did with the dark eldar kabalite raiding party formation and the special 6 FA slot foc, i suspect cron will probably similarly get their own special foc (maybe 2) and a formation or two. the idea that we'll get lots and lots of different representations for this dynasty thing seems unlikely.

in this way they'll likely keep flayed ones as elites, but make it possible to essentially field them as troops like what the haemonculus covens supplement did for wracks.

 skoffs wrote:
The consensus seems to be there will be price increases (eg. Night Scythe), price decreases (eg. Destroyers), stat buffs (eg. C'tan), stat nerfs (eg. Wraiths), slot changes (eg. Flayed Ones), new Warlord table, wargear switch around (something bad happen to MSS, but some sort of anti psyker tech added), and the introduction of these new "Dynasty tactics" (bonuses and restrictions, depending on which Necron Dynasty you decide you build your army around).

Granted, most of these are merely educated guesses on the part of the community as a whole, but it would be pretty surprising if the writers drastically deviated from those guesses.

The shards need more than a stat buff. What made The Nightbringer and The Deceiver good (among many, many other things) was having T8 which made them immune to small arm weapons (you couldn't wound T8 with S4). Since you now can wound anything with anything, that's a huge difference.

 Anpu-adom wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I think the Dynasty tactics are fake, personally.

GW will give them formations and call it a day, imo. "You want special fluffy rules? Take a formation. You want FoC shenanigans like making X troops? Play Unbound." says GW.

Quoted for Truth


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skoffs wrote:

Also, someone elsewhere raised an interesting point:
"If the current power army is Eldar, and GW wanted to do something to knock them down a peg, wouldn't using their arch nemesis, the Necrons, be a good way of doing so?"
Now, granted, that would mean GW using some measure of sense (something they're not exactly known for), but it could heavily depend on who wrote the book.

Ok, we have scarabs... who could possibly take out wave serpents if they survive the eldar alpha strike... but we still struggle to kill anything with Wraith in the name. Once again I complain that Necrons, as ancients, haven't figured out how to kill MC's (after we've taken down all the C'Tan) nor 3+ armor (after the wars against other Necrons, Eldar, and the Old Ones)?

We have the perfect unit for taking down things with wraith in the name, they call themselves Deathmarks and they wound those things with wraith in their name on a 2+ and rend on a 6. None of those things with wraith in the name have invul saves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skoffs wrote:
Anyone remember how far before the Gray Knights codex came out that the leaks started coming through?
I'm just trying to figure out when abouts we should be expecting to see concrete details for 'Crons.
(eg. "If the most reliable rumor mongers place the dex as Jan '15, we should start seeing leaks around _____.")

In the mean time, any new non-wishlisting info will continue to get added to the top post as it trickles through.

Based on every other Codex release, the week of the release will be when we see the best information. Honestly, anything before that is iffy at best.

 skoffs wrote:

• FoC changes coming for the codex. Focus on different Dynasties making different lists (bonuses granted, certain units "allowed", etc.)

Not buying it. They could have done the same thing with Ork clans and they didn't. I also believe that the days of certain units making other units into troops is also over. They are doing that to make people get used to running unbound.

 Davespil wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

• FoC changes coming for the codex. Focus on different Dynasties making different lists (bonuses granted, certain units "allowed", etc.)

Not buying it. They could have done the same thing with Ork clans and they didn't. I also believe that the days of certain units making other units into troops is also over. They are doing that to make people get used to running unbound.

Not to play Devil's Advocate here but, isn't funny that it was "okay" to field elites/FA/heavy as troops last edition, as long as you had a certain HQ wtih a special rule, but people lose their mind if you play the same army in 7th because it's unbound ?

Seriously, you could field the same list, and people will automatically turn up their nose at it simply because it 'unbound'.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Stalin did overthrow Hitler.

Exactly


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 xandermacleod wrote:
following what they did with the dark eldar kabalite raiding party formation and the special 6 FA slot foc, i suspect cron will probably similarly get their own special foc (maybe 2) and a formation or two. the idea that we'll get lots and lots of different representations for this dynasty thing seems unlikely.

in this way they'll likely keep flayed ones as elites, but make it possible to essentially field them as troops like what the haemonculus covens supplement did for wracks.

Well to clarify, the coven supplement makes nothing troops. It simply lifts the requirement and in fact option to take troops altogether. There is a pretty big difference.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 adamsouza wrote:

 Davespil wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

• FoC changes coming for the codex. Focus on different Dynasties making different lists (bonuses granted, certain units "allowed", etc.)

Not buying it. They could have done the same thing with Ork clans and they didn't. I also believe that the days of certain units making other units into troops is also over. They are doing that to make people get used to running unbound.

Not to play Devil's Advocate here but, isn't funny that it was "okay" to field elites/FA/heavy as troops last edition, as long as you had a certain HQ wtih a special rule, but people lose their mind if you play the same army in 7th because it's unbound ?

Seriously, you could field the same list, and people will automatically turn up their nose at it simply because it 'unbound'.

Yea, and GW will continue to push this issue. Aside from formations in some supplements etc. I don't expect to see anymore FOC shifts for a long time.

Slightly off topic but this is going to make chaos very interesting when they get an update.

 adamsouza wrote:

 Davespil wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

• FoC changes coming for the codex. Focus on different Dynasties making different lists (bonuses granted, certain units "allowed", etc.)

Not buying it. They could have done the same thing with Ork clans and they didn't. I also believe that the days of certain units making other units into troops is also over. They are doing that to make people get used to running unbound.

Not to play Devil's Advocate here but, isn't funny that it was "okay" to field elites/FA/heavy as troops last edition, as long as you had a certain HQ wtih a special rule, but people lose their mind if you play the same army in 7th because it's unbound ?

Seriously, you could field the same list, and people will automatically turn up their nose at it simply because it 'unbound'.

Yeap, when I play my ork bike list consisting of nothing but Fast Attack people will roll their eyes, but I was able to do it last edition...

 adamsouza wrote:
I don't believe any hardcover codex has been nerfed as hard as people are predicting the Necron codex will.

What does the Necron codex have got going for it ?
Reanimation Protocol
Scythes
Mind Shackle Scarabs
Anhilation Barges
Telsa (which isn't great, just the most useful weapon to snapfire)
Death Ray (which isn't great, just most useful against invisibile)
Command Barge (which works like the SW chariot)

What do Necron critis want to see nerfed ?
Reanimation Protocol
Scythes
Mind Shackle Scarabs
Anhilation Barges
Telsa (Beacause it's useful when snap firing)
Death Ray (Becasue it's useful against invisibile)
Command Barge (becasue it gets a ++ save from the overlord)

As a non Necron player (who despises the cheese of the Tran CTan and TL Tesla working better when jinking, making it a straight bonus rather than a tradeoff)

Reanimation Protocol- I don't want it nerfed. It's not a problem at all, just a tad complicated. FNP would simplify it, but remove the flavor, though they did exactly that to Dark Eldar, so I wouldn't be surprised if GW did make that change.

Scythes- Have three things goin for them that break the normal rules of (flying) transports- they can disembark troops after moving far more than 6 inches, if they are shot down there is no risk ti the contents, and their TL tesla means that they get statistically more hits if they choose to jink than if they didn't, making a defensive tradeoff of less firepower for more defense a straight buff. The first two are annoying, but do fit the Necron theme. The third problem would be easily fixed by changing tesla.

MSS- with the challenge mechanics, MSS is extremely strong, and penalizes an enemy character for being more powerful rather in close combat. It may be one of the Necron things they have going for them, but it is also an extremely strong crutch that the opponent can do little or nothing about, like Psybolts or Psychotroke grenades were for Grey Knights. If it dropped the character to WS1 on a fail, that would be somewhat strong, but far less frustrating to go up against.

Annhilation Barges- Bein able to Jink and get more hits than if they didn't jink is stupid. Fix Tesla, fix them.

Tesla- Unlike other special rules that take effect on a to-hit of a six, Tesla continues to work even when snapshooting. Why> What makes it so special? It leads to odd results like TL tesla granting statistically more hits when forced to snapfire than when firing normally. Change Tesla to shock (same effect, but does not work on snapfire) and it both brings it in line with the other special rules, but fixes some of the problem units in the book- Ann barges and the scythes.

Death Ray- I don't see the problem. Maybe clean up the wording a bit? Hurting invisible is not a bad thing, as Invisible needs fixed itself. At the least, Invisible needs to be a ML3 power.

Command Barge is a problem because of all the interactions- it gets a ++ save from the leader, can choose to put all the S4 or less on the vehicle and thus fully ignore them, while putting stronger hits that could hurt the barge but barely touch the lord on the lord. Fantasy seems to be moving towards a combined profile for monstrous mounts and riders, Chariots ought to do the same, or become a specific unit type, rather than a hybrid infantry/vehicle. Make a chariot work similar to say bikes, where they grant a tough bonus, change the speed and movement profiles, and have some other special rules. Walkers are already problematic to balance as vehicles, chariots are even worse. But that is something that should change for chariots, not specifically the CCB.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Weren't those all really old models, that by today's standards are "hideous"? Obviously some people still like them, but most kitbashed their own. The necron ones are all brand new to the 5th codex. I don't think you'll see those disappear. GW isn't that stupid.

I loved Marbo, and he was what always made me want to play IG & 40k originally. Which is ironic, because I thought the Catachan models looked like garbage and loved the Voystroyans(sp?) I could never get my hands on.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
I don't believe any hardcover codex has been nerfed as hard as people are predicting the Necron codex will.

What does the Necron codex have got going for it ?
Reanimation Protocol
Scythes
Mind Shackle Scarabs
Anhilation Barges
Telsa (which isn't great, just the most useful weapon to snapfire)
Death Ray (which isn't great, just most useful against invisibile)
Command Barge (which works like the SW chariot)

What do Necron critis want to see nerfed ?
Reanimation Protocol
Scythes
Mind Shackle Scarabs
Anhilation Barges
Telsa (Beacause it's useful when snap firing)
Death Ray (Becasue it's useful against invisibile)
Command Barge (becasue it gets a ++ save from the overlord)

As a non Necron player (who despises the cheese of the Tran CTan and TL Tesla working better when jinking, making it a straight bonus rather than a tradeoff)

Reanimation Protocol- I don't want it nerfed. It's not a problem at all, just a tad complicated. FNP would simplify it, but remove the flavor, though they did exactly that to Dark Eldar, so I wouldn't be surprised if GW did make that change.

Scythes- Have three things goin for them that break the normal rules of (flying) transports- they can disembark troops after moving far more than 6 inches, if they are shot down there is no risk ti the contents, and their TL tesla means that they get statistically more hits if they choose to jink than if they didn't, making a defensive tradeoff of less firepower for more defense a straight buff. The first two are annoying, but do fit the Necron theme. The third problem would be easily fixed by changing tesla.

MSS- with the challenge mechanics, MSS is extremely strong, and penalizes an enemy character for being more powerful rather in close combat. It may be one of the Necron things they have going for them, but it is also an extremely strong crutch that the opponent can do little or nothing about, like Psybolts or Psychotroke grenades were for Grey Knights. If it dropped the character to WS1 on a fail, that would be somewhat strong, but far less frustrating to go up against.

Annhilation Barges- Bein able to Jink and get more hits than if they didn't jink is stupid. Fix Tesla, fix them.

Tesla- Unlike other special rules that take effect on a to-hit of a six, Tesla continues to work even when snapshooting. Why> What makes it so special? It leads to odd results like TL tesla granting statistically more hits when forced to snapfire than when firing normally. Change Tesla to shock (same effect, but does not work on snapfire) and it both brings it in line with the other special rules, but fixes some of the problem units in the book- Ann barges and the scythes.

Death Ray- I don't see the problem. Maybe clean up the wording a bit? Hurting invisible is not a bad thing, as Invisible needs fixed itself. At the least, Invisible needs to be a ML3 power.

Command Barge is a problem because of all the interactions- it gets a ++ save from the leader, can choose to put all the S4 or less on the vehicle and thus fully ignore them, while putting stronger hits that could hurt the barge but barely touch the lord on the lord. Fantasy seems to be moving towards a combined profile for monstrous mounts and riders, Chariots ought to do the same, or become a specific unit type, rather than a hybrid infantry/vehicle. Make a chariot work similar to say bikes, where they grant a tough bonus, change the speed and movement profiles, and have some other special rules. Walkers are already problematic to balance as vehicles, chariots are even worse. But that is something that should change for chariots, not specifically the CCB.

Tesla doesn't work better when snap firing. You average 1.333 hits per shot normally and 0.917 hits per shot snap firing.

Chariots were designed with their ability to ignore small arms fire in mind. Welcome to 7th. I doubt they will make changes that were specifically introduced in 7th.