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-Redacted-

You need biovores to eliminate markers asap. Without markers, tau are not that deadly.

why play lengthwise against tau? why play a normal game? play Maelstrom, considering that your opponent has 2 OS units, and you have 2-3?

How are you using your Flyrant? If I was playing, I'd push your flyrant to the Hammerheads immediately.

Don't reserve your units. break them up into min size units, and push them forward.

What koooaei said is kind of useless, as I don't see many markerlight applicable units. OTOH, they will remove the firewarriors with few problems.

DON'T RESERVE YOUR UNITS! you seem to be using them individually - don't do this, as together they work better. Keep the Tervigon by the 'Gaunts to spawn more as they get killed off. Keep the venomthrope behind the Tervigon so that its cover save is buffed by the meatball. You should always be able to take a cover save with this blob, I don't see enough markerlights to grant ignore cover.

I'm currently unfamiliar with Hive Commander. Does it allow a single unit to outflank? if so, then outflank either the Zoanthroape or the Flyrant.

-Redacted-

A) its not impossible to get into its side arc, plus what hes saying is, your flyrant should be going straight for his hammerheads, due to it being a MFC and has far greater movement than the rest of your list.

B) the min squad is a good idea, as tau have the ability to put out some serious firepower into single units etc.. but by breaking up you are simply saturating his ability to shoot you all.

C) Not sure as i dont play tau, i didn't realise pirahnas and firewarriors had the ability to apply markerlights? Thats what I thought pathfinder teams were for?

D) He's saying use your Tervigon to LOS and give cover to your zonethrope, not to use your gaunts to shield the tervi. Hes also saying by keeping the tervi close to the gaunts the respawns will allow you to pump out the gaunts exactly where they were lost (ie, have the tau dude brick it as every single time he removes some gaunts they are back next turn and closer )

I get that your frustrated, but you came here to ask for help, recieved help and then basically dismissed it all bar 1 bit of advice?

Plus also, as he mentioned, your playing lengthwise, with almost no cover in the midfield bar that one building, as an assault army against a gunline army..... Consider this; its currently massively in your disadvantage to play this way. Put some more cover down, play maelstrom or missions where its width ways and your not simply walking up a board each turn waiting to get shot.

What rules are you using? Piranhas do not have 4 markerlights. (P. 47, 101, Tau Empire Codex)

If your opponent is couching the marker drones in the firewarrior squads, he would be better served using squads of 6 with EMP grenades. You didn't say that they were markerdrones. and it isn't optimal. The way you described his list, he is using the squads in the same way that you buy them - stealth teams come with one Marker Drone, Firewarrior squads come with 2 Gun Drones, etc.

Why are you worried about facing with the hammerheads? I assume that your Flyrant is a dakka one? 2 sets of TL Devourers with BLWs? You aren't going to be doing much against AV13, true, but assaulting them is feasible, as your opponent is not equipping either the Point Defense Targeting Relay or Longstrike. and the zoanthroape? don't you still have access to the Str10 AP1 Lance power?

To get cover, the tervigon only needs 25% cover, which is rather easily done with gaunts. (P. 37, rulebook)

How is your opponent downing your flyrant? He doesn't have Skyfire. If it is just luck, he is a good roller - ask him to use a cup or a dice tower when playing (or ask to use his dice). Don't tell me you are starting your Flyrant off in Hover?!?

1. That hammerhead is partly outside of the table, i.e. dead or should be moved back inside a bit.
2. Lengthwise should only happen one game out of three.
3. There should be 25% of the table in terrain, a good third should be LOS blocking like ruins, another third like hills (tend to block some LOS)
4. Tau don't stand a chance against a good swarm afaik. I don't believe they can handle 4 Flyrants, 4 Ripper Swarms and 180 Termagants.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 carldooley wrote:

Why are you worried about facing with the hammerheads? I assume that your Flyrant is a dakka one? 2 sets of TL Devourers with BLWs? You aren't going to be doing much against AV13, true, but assaulting them is feasible, as your opponent is not equipping either the Point Defense Targeting Relay or Longstrike. and the zoanthroape? don't you still have access to the Str10 AP1 Lance power?

The hammerhead is a long rectangle for AV side purposes, it can always be hit on its side armor, plus there are Electroshock grubs, it shouldn't be an issue.

Oh yeah - take a look at the hammerheads. In Sixth, that was an illegal deployment, if he tries that again, tell him they are destroyed or in reserve. (P. 132, Rulebook) off the table is Impassable.

**edit** ninja'd by morgoth

morgoth wrote:
4. Tau don't stand a chance against a good swarm afaik. I don't believe they can handle 4 Flyrants, 4 Ripper Swarms and 180 Termagants.

I don't think anyone would like to play against 180 termies. Friend of mine tried once against poor dark angels. He noticed how slow the game became and the no-fun for his opponent - and will never play that again.
Anything besides castled AM would play that... or orks (because all fights are proppa fights)

 Vector Strike wrote:

morgoth wrote:
4. Tau don't stand a chance against a good swarm afaik. I don't believe they can handle 4 Flyrants, 4 Ripper Swarms and 180 Termagants.

I don't think anyone would like to play against 180 termies. Friend of mine tried once against poor dark angels. He noticed how slow the game became and the no-fun for his opponent - and will never play that again.
Anything besides castled AM would play that... or orks (because all fights are proppa fights)

Definitely would consider movement trays for termagants or footguard.
Not using them would mean insane model moving skills - or as you mentioned, a horribly annoying game.
If my opponent was like your friend, I would ask his permission to move half his models to speed the thing up.

You are playing tyranids so it is a losing battle to begin with. Then there is the terrain you play on... it is completely open, all you have is a small centerpiece that barely makes the size of what most ruins cover on my gaming club's tables. So expect to get shot out of existence by anything with decent shooting (which is exactly where tau excel).
Personally I would not play a game in theese conditions, it will just end up in you being frustrated with your bugs and you will go home thinking about new units to buy or trade armies altogether.

You're table has pretty much no terrain. you need a lot more LoS blockers. Playing longways on the table is always a huge boon to gunlines but that's only a 1/3 of the deployments.

IDK what you mission was but Tau are bad at Maelstrom missions. They generally require a lot of mobility which the Tau are very lacking on mobility without giving up a lot of their damage. I'd suggest trying a game with those missions.

IDK how you guys built your lists for the game but don't let your opponent build his list with Nids in mind. Tau have a tool for everything so can easily tailor thier lists for anything. try and get your opponents to have their list ready before they see your list.

Also FMC spam works well because of everything having hard to hit and still doing decent damage. Sure they have markerlights but you still greatly reduce your incoming damage by making those initial marker lights hit on 6's and forcing them to use marker lights to hit at all instead of hitting with amazing accuracy or removing cover saves.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Also FMC spam works well because of everything having hard to hit and still doing decent damage. Sure they have markerlights but you still greatly reduce your incoming damage by making those initial marker lights hit on 6's and forcing them to use marker lights to hit at all instead of hitting with amazing accuracy or removing cover saves.

Tau is an army that has no problems with AA sources. BS3 TL HYMP broadsides, ECPA HBC Riptide and the new Y'varhra can all get Velocity Tracker.
Ah, and Skyrays (that posses 2 markerlights)

 Vector Strike wrote:
Tau is an army that has no problems with AA sources. BS3 TL HYMP broadsides, ECPA HBC Riptide and the new Y'varhra can all get Velocity Tracker.
Ah, and Skyrays (that posses 2 markerlights)

none of which was in the list that he played against. While the Burst-tide may have had a VT, it wasn't mentioned in the initial brief.

 carldooley wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Tau is an army that has no problems with AA sources. BS3 TL HYMP broadsides, ECPA HBC Riptide and the new Y'varhra can all get Velocity Tracker.
Ah, and Skyrays (that posses 2 markerlights)

none of which was in the list that he played against. While the Burst-tide may have had a VT, it wasn't mentioned in the initial brief.

Yes, but after 1 game against the suggested FMCs, do you think he'll keep the same units?

I'm surprised you're getting beaten by this with that list - the only thing I can really put it down to is a poor table with little terrain and the fact that Hammer and Anvil Deployment was used.

Oh and sub-optimal units xD Replace Tervigon with Flyrant and cut down on the swarms to get some Mawlocs/Biovores. Best way to beat a gunline army are those two units (Mawloc will be insanely helpful against the Deathstar unit

 Vector Strike wrote:
Yes, but after 1 game against the suggested FMCs, do you think he'll keep the same units?

You can certainly pray that he will keep taking 3 flamers on his suits. There are FAR more effective builds.

-Redacted-

??? No matter how many gaunts are in front of the Tervigon, it never gets a cover save because my opponent can see 50%. Plus, he'll just kill the Venom before the Tervigon.

You only need to be 25% obscured to get a cover save.

Also, if it has so much as the tip of a claw inside a wood or ruins, it gets a cover save.

Verviedi wrote:
]I cannot get within 18 inches without being shot to death.]

hence outflanking with the Zoan.

Zoanthropes aren't for taking out vehicles - too short ranged. They should hang back with the gaunts to keep them in line, and take pot shots when they get a chance, but otherwise, they provide synapse and psychic support. You can't outflank the Zoan with Hive Commander anyway, as it only applies to troops. Master of Ambush could do it, but that is random.

As others have mentioned, you need more terrain on that board, and you should be rolling to determine table halves. He shouldn't get to pick the side that's on the hill every time.

In addition, that Flyrant should have Electroshock Grubs. For only 10 points, it gives you the option to Haywire those tanks. That could be huge.

And, consider getting a Mawloc or two. Mawlocs can really mess up gunline Tau, as they can kill suits with their S6 AP2 large blasts that hit twice before they come in. They are random, of course, so it is best to take 2, but even 1 Mawloc can ruin your opponents' day if he castles up (as even if it scatters it is likely to hit something when everything is packed together). Once the Mawloc is in play, it can then charge the Hammerheads and Smash them, or it can reburrow if there is nothing good nearby to assault. It also tends to mess with your opponent's head, as he will be worried about getting hit by the Mawloc, and hence might spread his stuff out more (which is generally good for you, as you can then try to take on part of his army with all of yours, giving you the advantage).

Seriously?

That table is barren. You seem to have agreed to play against a long ranged army using long deployment. Why are you upset that you are losing? That is the expected outcome.

Play maelstrom. Roll for deployment type. Put some bloody terrain down! And if your opponent whines about it, smack him.

Yeah honestly the table is barren

Electroworm would be good.

Outflanking may put the fire in there pants

Get more terrain

Mawlocs for general hijinks is good too as above suggested.

Priorities should be kill the markerlights then troops then hold objectives

Asmodas wrote:
You can't outflank the Zoan with Hive Commander anyway, as it only applies to troops. Master of Ambush could do it, but that is random.

noted.

as Frozocrone said, the Flyrant is superior to the Tervigon in just about every way. Are Tervigons still able to be taken as troops (as they could in the previous Codex)? If so, you have your Hive Commander target. Also, this isn't warmachine (everything moves at the same time) - you can have the gaunt units touching the tervigon, so justifying a cover save should be easy enough.

-Redacted-

In general, the OP should read the main Tyranid thread. Jy2 has lots of batreps on there against Tau, and I think he is undefeated. He has lots of great advice for dealing with Tau. He also tends to use a lot of FMCs (and no Tervigons, notably).

Terv is definitely not the best. It's a little expensive for what it does, and is slow with no ranged weapons. The last thing you need against gunline Tau is more gaunts. You really need more fast MCs, like Crones and Mawlocs and Flyrants, so you can get in his face early and start taking stuff out before it has had a chance to do its damage. If you are just walking across the table with one Flyrant, guess who is going to get shot down first?

Also, gargoyles. They are very fast, can fill the "wall of bodies" need, and can tie up Riptides and suits. Plus, they have poison 6+ stock, and can therefore actually put wounds on Riptides if you are lucky.

Verviedi wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
What rules are you using? Piranhas do not have 4 markerlights. (P. 47, 101, Tau Empire Codex)
7th ed. Latest edition.

Not if the Piranhas have Markerlights. That is Tetra's that have markerlights.

But as others have said, you need terrain on that table, it is giving the game to the Tau. Mawloc's could be fun if dicey, a Crone would be effective, even Ravenors and shrikes would be useful DS in and get side shots on the hammerhead. Outflanking large broods of stealers are even good at moving that hammerhead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Verviedi wrote:

SBG wrote:
Seriously?

That table is barren. You seem to have agreed to play against a long ranged army using long deployment. Why are you upset that you are losing? That is the expected outcome.

Play maelstrom. Roll for deployment type. Put some bloody terrain down! And if your opponent whines about it, smack him.

I didn't agree to anything. He started deploying while I was painting some gaunts and then asked if I wanted to play him.

Then you should have had him start back at the top of how to prepare for a battle. By playing a game on a table you let him setup and predeploy on you set your self up to lose.

The way I play every game is with the 6th ed terrain placement. It's random, fair and works regardless of if I'm using my Tyranids or a long range choas marines army or IG.

Divide the table into 6 2x2 sections. Roll a d3 for each and alternate putting one large, medium or 1-3 small pieces of terrain per number rolled in an of the 2x2 squares.

I would never play on a table like the one pictured, since it removes all the strategy from the game. A "proper" game's most important phase is the movement phase. That's where you will win or lose and that maneuver and counter move is the element that makes it so much fun.

Verviedi wrote:

SBG wrote:
Seriously?

That table is barren. You seem to have agreed to play against a long ranged army using long deployment. Why are you upset that you are losing? That is the expected outcome.

Play maelstrom. Roll for deployment type. Put some bloody terrain down! And if your opponent whines about it, smack him.

I didn't agree to anything. He started deploying while I was painting some gaunts and then asked if I wanted to play him.

You could have agreed to a game, then begun a proper game. Where you deploy as per the rules.

Next time, eh!

Also, gaunts give the tervigon the cover save. It doesn't need to be 25%. That's only for vehicles.