Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Verviedi wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
A unit can't use it's own markerlights - only those left by another unit which previously fired at the same target.

The exception is 'networked' markerlights.

Yeah. He always pops markerlights with the firewarriors and then rapidfire me using them at BS5.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, he only has 6 legal markerlights?

Correct only 6 legal marker lights, none of which can be used be the unit that fires them. Also the drones must fire at the same thing as the rest of the squad.

example:
Firewarrir squad A fires at Termgaunt brood. SInce it has marker drones, they fire at the same times as the rifles, all at BS3. Assuming both markerlights hits, FireWarrior squad B can now use those 2 markerlights to either remove cover or fire at BS5 at the marked gaunt squad.

barnowl wrote:
Correct only 6 legal marker lights, none of which can be used be the unit that fires them. Also the drones must fire at the same thing as the rest of the squad.

you need to read the rest of his thread. there are 8. 2 marker drones per firewarrior squad, plus the markerlight on the shas'ui. That is six, yes. But there are the two markerlights in the Stealth Suit unit as well. One marker drone and one markerlight on the team leader. Making eight.

 carldooley wrote:

barnowl wrote:
Correct only 6 legal marker lights, none of which can be used be the unit that fires them. Also the drones must fire at the same thing as the rest of the squad.

you need to read the rest of his thread. there are 8. 2 marker drones per firewarrior squad, plus the markerlight on the shas'ui. That is six, yes. But there are the two markerlights in the Stealth Suit unit as well. One marker drone and one markerlight on the team leader. Making eight.

Going by the list as posted, there are only 2 markerlights in each FW squad, one on the Fireblade and one in the Stealthgroup. There is no Shas'ui in the list. And based on the thread that looks like the only 6 I would trust to actually be there.

Hold on, what fireblade? besides, I was answering the question of how may markerlights could legally be in the list that verviedi posted here:

Verviedi wrote:

Can you quote the rule that says Markerlights cannot be used by the unit firing them?

P. 68 Tau Empire Codex blue box on the bottom. Last paragraph on the bottom left:
'Note that as markerlight counters are removed from the target before the shooting attack is made, it is impossible for a unit to benefit from its own markerlights.'

The Rules for the networked markerlights are on the next page (P.69), left hand side, a little more than half way down the page.

-Redacted-

Does anybody have any more help?

Verviedi wrote:
Does anybody have any more help?

probably not if this is your response:

Verviedi wrote:
I'm thinking of just playing Unbound and bringing 7 LRMBTs, 3 Wave Serpents, 1 Fire Prism, and BL guardians

I was thinking about how you [chose to disregard] help you already got in the thread. Then I thought, by all means smash the guy, hopefully settle him down, and then get back to more normal games.

All the advice you need is already in the thread.

So I'm thinking of getting (In order)
Flyrant
Hive Guard (Easy to hack them apart and make them into Biovores.)
Mawloc

The only problem is that I don't have enough devourers left to give the Flyrant TL Dual Devourers.

I will initiate psychological warfare, by first telling him every single thing he got wrong about his list. Next weekend when we get to the store, I will bring a LRMBT out of my backpack, so he will list tailor to tankwall Guard. Then, when we deploy (can't change lists when game starts) I will begin placing nids. I'll hide everything behind terrain first turn, immediately rush Flyrants forwards and gank the Hammerheads. With his OP units out of the way, I will run everything towards the FW and Stealth Suit teams, and warp blast them with Zoey if possible.

Check out the how-to in my P&M blog, in my signature. I've got step by step instructions on how to buid a TL Devourer for Tyrants and Carnifexes. Easy and uses bits you're very likely to have.

Good call on what to get, they're all useful.

Verviedi wrote:
So I'm thinking of getting (In order)
Flyrant
Hive Guard (Easy to hack them apart and make them into Biovores.)
Mawloc

The only problem is that I don't have enough devourers left to give the Flyrant TL Dual Devourers.

I will initiate psychological warfare, by first telling him every single thing he got wrong about his list. Next weekend when we get to the store, I will bring a LRMBT out of my backpack, so he will list tailor to tankwall Guard. Then, when we deploy (can't change lists when game starts) I will begin placing nids. I'll hide everything behind terrain first turn, immediately rush Flyrants forwards and gank the Hammerheads. With his OP units out of the way, I will run everything towards the FW and Stealth Suit teams, and warp blast them with Zoey if possible.

Hammerheads are not OP, in fact sub-par in comparison to other HS options.

What sort of list are you planning to run?

 Frozocrone wrote:

Verviedi wrote:
So I'm thinking of getting (In order)
Flyrant
Hive Guard (Easy to hack them apart and make them into Biovores.)
Mawloc

The only problem is that I don't have enough devourers left to give the Flyrant TL Dual Devourers.

I will initiate psychological warfare, by first telling him every single thing he got wrong about his list. Next weekend when we get to the store, I will bring a LRMBT out of my backpack, so he will list tailor to tankwall Guard. Then, when we deploy (can't change lists when game starts) I will begin placing nids. I'll hide everything behind terrain first turn, immediately rush Flyrants forwards and gank the Hammerheads. With his OP units out of the way, I will run everything towards the FW and Stealth Suit teams, and warp blast them with Zoey if possible.

Hammerheads are not OP, in fact sub-par in comparison to other HS options.

What sort of list are you planning to run?

HQ
Double Flyrants with Double Double Devourers and eGrubs (480)

Troops
30 Termagants (15 Devourers, 15 Borers) (200)
1 Tervigon (Crushing Claws) (210)
4 Ripper Swarms (Spinefists) (58)
11 Hormagaunts (Toxin Sacs + Adr Glands) 110
11 Hormagaunts (Toxin Sacs + Adr Glands) 110

Elites:
1 Zoanthrope (50)
1 Venomthrope (45)

Fast Attack:
10 Gargoyles (60)

Heavy Support:
Carnifex (Double Double Devourers, Regen) (180)

Is there a reason you're playing a Tervigon? General conseseus is that it's not very competitive.

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but try and play Maelstrom of War - Camp Tau struggles when it has to move to claim VP.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Is there a reason you're playing a Tervigon? General conseseus is that it's not very competitive.

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but try and play Maelstrom of War - Camp Tau struggles when it has to move to claim VP.

He absolutely refuses to play Maelstrom. He says it's boring and tedious.

I'd refuse the game with that player. Do that a few times and he'll likely see it your way, lol. A fair game is better than no game.

Verviedi wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Is there a reason you're playing a Tervigon? General conseseus is that it's not very competitive.

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but try and play Maelstrom of War - Camp Tau struggles when it has to move to claim VP.

He absolutely refuses to play Maelstrom. He says it's boring and tedious.

Refuse to play Eternal War then. Claim it's boring and tedious.

That guy is a .

 Frozocrone wrote:

Verviedi wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Is there a reason you're playing a Tervigon? General conseseus is that it's not very competitive.

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but try and play Maelstrom of War - Camp Tau struggles when it has to move to claim VP.

He absolutely refuses to play Maelstrom. He says it's boring and tedious.

Refuse to play Eternal War then. Claim it's boring and tedious.

That guy is a .

Exalted

Verviedi wrote:
So I'm thinking of getting (In order)
Flyrant
Hive Guard (Easy to hack them apart and make them into Biovores.)
Mawloc

The only problem is that I don't have enough devourers left to give the Flyrant TL Dual Devourers.

I will initiate psychological warfare, by first telling him every single thing he got wrong about his list. Next weekend when we get to the store, I will bring a LRMBT out of my backpack, so he will list tailor to tankwall Guard. Then, when we deploy (can't change lists when game starts) I will begin placing nids. I'll hide everything behind terrain first turn, immediately rush Flyrants forwards and gank the Hammerheads. With his OP units out of the way, I will run everything towards the FW and Stealth Suit teams, and warp blast them with Zoey if possible.

Make him pull out his codex and go down the list and rules with you. This guy is looking like a classic W.A.A.C player and they are never fun.

barnowl wrote:

Verviedi wrote:
So I'm thinking of getting (In order)
Flyrant
Hive Guard (Easy to hack them apart and make them into Biovores.)
Mawloc

The only problem is that I don't have enough devourers left to give the Flyrant TL Dual Devourers.

I will initiate psychological warfare, by first telling him every single thing he got wrong about his list. Next weekend when we get to the store, I will bring a LRMBT out of my backpack, so he will list tailor to tankwall Guard. Then, when we deploy (can't change lists when game starts) I will begin placing nids. I'll hide everything behind terrain first turn, immediately rush Flyrants forwards and gank the Hammerheads. With his OP units out of the way, I will run everything towards the FW and Stealth Suit teams, and warp blast them with Zoey if possible.

Make him pull out his codex and go down the list and rules with you. This guy is looking like a classic W.A.A.C player and they are never fun.

Haha yeah. His other armies were CSM (Always beat him when he played that, Completely unpainted), Orks (He took 3 killa kans (All close by but not in a unit so I can't shoot more than one.)2 Deff Dreads, a Dakkajet or Bomma (Depends on list he was fighting) and a Battlewagon. He had 2 squads of infantry. Completely unpainted.), Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)

And finally, campy railhead spam. (Unpainted, but in progress.)

Verviedi wrote:
Haha yeah. His other armies were CSM (Always beat him when he played that, Completely unpainted), Orks (He took 3 killa kans (All close by but not in a unit so I can't shoot more than one.)2 Deff Dreads, a Dakkajet or Bomma (Depends on list he was fighting) and a Battlewagon. He had 2 squads of infantry. Completely unpainted.), Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)

And finally, campy railhead spam. (Unpainted, but in progress.)

When you started this thread, I thought that the player was a guy that you met at a pickup game. But this sounds like he is a regular opponent for you. I would suggest that the two of you, and any others that you are playing with in that venue, take a game night and go over the rules for the game. Know thy enemy may sound trite, but knowing the ins and outs of the other armies is not a weakness. play games where you command your opponent's army. go over the rules not only for your own armies, but those for the rulebook as well.

You mentioned being unable to target more than one of a group of killa kans. Where does it say that in the rulebook? or is it in the Ork Codex? (I would really like to know - in addition to TE\FE I also have a SM Dread-spam army as well - I would like to use that to my benefit!) I do not think that particular rule exists anywhere, and I think that he may be snowing you. This is why I suggest leaving your armies at home for a night and go over the rules.

 carldooley wrote:

Verviedi wrote:
Haha yeah. His other armies were CSM (Always beat him when he played that, Completely unpainted), Orks (He took 3 killa kans (All close by but not in a unit so I can't shoot more than one.)2 Deff Dreads, a Dakkajet or Bomma (Depends on list he was fighting) and a Battlewagon. He had 2 squads of infantry. Completely unpainted.), Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)

And finally, campy railhead spam. (Unpainted, but in progress.)

When you started this thread, I thought that the player was a guy that you met at a pickup game. But this sounds like he is a regular opponent for you. I would suggest that the two of you, and any others that you are playing with in that venue, take a game night and go over the rules for the game. Know thy enemy may sound trite, but knowing the ins and outs of the other armies is not a weakness. play games where you command your opponent's army. go over the rules not only for your own armies, but those for the rulebook as well.

You mentioned being unable to target more than one of a group of killa kans. Where does it say that in the rulebook? or is it in the Ork Codex? (I would really like to know - in addition to TE\FE I also have a SM Dread-spam army as well - I would like to use that to my benefit!) I do not think that particular rule exists anywhere, and I think that he may be snowing you. This is why I suggest leaving your armies at home for a night and go over the rules.

Here is how that OP, cheesy, terrible exploit works.
Run them as seperate units on the force org list (Instead of one squad of 3 Kans, 3 squads of 1)
Put them within 2" of each other so they can all shoot the same thing.
It's pretty much a requirement to play unbound if you do this. I HATE unbound, but since he is my ONLY opponent, I have to let him.

I believe he means that you can only target one Killa Kan with a single unit since he's running single units....however a single Killa Kan is just begging to be first blood. Especially when you're playing Maelstrom and you pull "kill an enemy unit"....."why thank you three times"

It's true though - it's always good to know what other armies can do. I have, on more than one occasion, said to an opponent, "Really? That's how that works?? Can I see the rule?" Most of the time it's against the Daemon Warp storm results lol. Some of them are NUTS! But it's not an unfair thing to ask. When you don't know how a unit works, they are that much more dangerous to you because you can't perform an accurate threat analysis (at least not on purpose) and will wind up making sub-par decisions as a result (like people who strangely decide to shoot at the things that are getting cover from a Malanthrope/Venomthrope rather than the source itself - great idea! )

Here's basically what the problem is:

•Opponent will not read the damn codex.
•I only get $20 a week.
•LOLGUNLINE.
•The only decent units have MAXIMUM GOUGING activated.
•Opponent refuses to play Maelstrom.
•I am playing Tyranids.

Proxy or play someone else. Life is too short to waste dealing with people like that.

I used to play against a guy who would only play killpoints. No objectives, nothing - and I run Tyranids. So I stopped playing him. A month goes by, hey surprise - willing to see it my way.

Stand up for yourself.

Verviedi wrote:
Here's basically what the problem is:

•Opponent will not read the damn codex.
•I only get $20 a week.
•LOLGUNLINE.
•The only decent units have MAXIMUM GOUGING activated.
•Opponent refuses to play Maelstrom.
•I am playing Tyranids.

Honestly the only real problem is point one. I say that because I still hold my own against most lists in our state wide tourney with what was originally a 3rd ed gribbly list. In 4 years I have only added 1 Tyrant guard (to finish a set of the previous model), 1 ravenor (to bring it to minimum, all metals), and about a score gaunts (mix of Termi,Spina, and Horma). DE Venom and Helion lists have been the only lists that I have zero wins against. Both just have to much poison and fire volume to handle.

Only playing Eternal War missions means you can make a massive outflank/Deepstrike list to bring the pain. Still going to have a problem with Purge but 'nids always have.

Here is the list I would start with based on your posted list for 1200pts:


HQ:
Flyrant w/2xBL Devourers, Egrubs, Hive Commander 260 (just too good not to have)
Trevigon w/Egrub, Maisma Cannon 230 (You want to keep Dominion and ideally on-slaught on her)

Elite:
Zoanthrope 50 (behind the bunker, rocking Dominion and maybe a useful power)
Venomthrope 45 (in the bunker)

Troops:
15 Hormiguants 75
15 Hormigaunts 75
17 Devilguants 136 (outflank (or Infiltrate) them they make a nasty entry
3 rippers w/ DS,TS 57 (Riptide will fear this)

Fast
10 gargoyle 60 (Riptide won't like this either)

Hvy
1 Carnifex w/2xBL devourers 150

Fortification:
Bunker 55


A bunker is essentially a half height bastion with no guns. It is just here to keep the Venomthrope alive another turn and provide some guaranteed coverage.

4 things will depend on the Dice gods:
1) For Warlord traits you want to aim for Master of Ambush.
2) Night fighting, you want this. Good for you, bad for Tau.
3) You want to go first, especially if you get MoA.
4) The right mix of powers. You got 4 power roles between 3 psychers, and you want to get in order of priorities : Catalyst, Onslaught, Paroxsym, Psychic Scream, Horror

If you get MoA you will want to push the fex up and the Trevigon. The fex goes after either the Riptide or Piranhas. Momma pops a brood, and templates FW then suits. After that you have a choice about the flyrant, Devilgaunts or a brood of hormigaunts to screen with. The Flyrant will almost guarantee side shots on the HH and egrub trying to destroy it or force a jink. If you get really luck a Vector strike also. Devilguants can go after Prianhas, Stealth suits, Crisis suits or Firewarriors. Or the just run the hormigaunts as a screen for cover saves

Target goals
Flamer suits, Your list is very susceptible to templates. With all those gun drones you should be forcing LD tests by killing all the drones off. This is also a good target for the Horror if you end up with it. Don't want to charge this many flamers, but if you do, hit it with a brood from the Trevigon to absorb the overwatch before having the real threat charge.

Riptide is a tarpit target either the Gargoyles or the a hormie brood. You don't care about killing it just keeping it from shooting. If the venom lives long enough, it might even be good to get it stuck in with fight on the Riptide. 2+ poison is nice. Kill the drones and you might even make it run off the board.

The HHs, you don't have to kill them just keep them jinking. S10 will hurt, but not as bad as the pieplates. Vector Strikes and devourers should make that happen. If you can assault one with the fex go for it.

The FWs will need to die, but will bring the pain with overwatch, so if you charge do it first with a tervigon spawned brood if possible. Go after the fireblade squad first as it has the most fire output.

Piranhas and the stealth suits are going to be pains. Depending on the mission they may be worth more to kill than the Stealth suits or FW. If they back Fusion Blasters, you want them jinking so as to protector you MC's/








Automatically Appended Next Post:
I added up the Tau list you posted and attempted to keep it legal. You are playing at around a 100 point handicap, maybe a little more. Your not losing because you are playing 'nids, your losing cus the dude is cheating you.

luke1705 wrote:
I believe he means that you can only target one Killa Kan with a single unit since he's running single units....however a single Killa Kan is just begging to be first blood. Especially when you're playing Maelstrom and you pull "kill an enemy unit"....."why thank you three times"

It's true though - it's always good to know what other armies can do. I have, on more than one occasion, said to an opponent, "Really? That's how that works?? Can I see the rule?" Most of the time it's against the Daemon Warp storm results lol. Some of them are NUTS! But it's not an unfair thing to ask. When you don't know how a unit works, they are that much more dangerous to you because you can't perform an accurate threat analysis (at least not on purpose) and will wind up making sub-par decisions as a result (like people who strangely decide to shoot at the things that are getting cover from a Malanthrope/Venomthrope rather than the source itself - great idea! )

First Blood doesn't matter when thanks to the exploit my tanks are about to be charged with Str10 AP1 3 4 attacks.

Verviedi wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
I believe he means that you can only target one Killa Kan with a single unit since he's running single units....however a single Killa Kan is just begging to be first blood. Especially when you're playing Maelstrom and you pull "kill an enemy unit"....."why thank you three times"

It's true though - it's always good to know what other armies can do. I have, on more than one occasion, said to an opponent, "Really? That's how that works?? Can I see the rule?" Most of the time it's against the Daemon Warp storm results lol. Some of them are NUTS! But it's not an unfair thing to ask. When you don't know how a unit works, they are that much more dangerous to you because you can't perform an accurate threat analysis (at least not on purpose) and will wind up making sub-par decisions as a result (like people who strangely decide to shoot at the things that are getting cover from a Malanthrope/Venomthrope rather than the source itself - great idea! )

First Blood doesn't matter when thanks to the exploit my tanks are about to be charged with Str10 AP1 3 4 attacks.

Killa Kans?

They are S7 AP2 at best, with WS 2 and I2 so not good in CC. They also have 2 HP and Av 11/11/10. Devourer shots drop them like flies

Are you talking about either a Morkanaut or Gorkanaut? If you are, you should be thankful, Lootas/Mek Guns are much better uses of HS options of Orks.

I digress though, when did Orks come into play in a nids vs Tau thread?

 Frozocrone wrote:

Verviedi wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
I believe he means that you can only target one Killa Kan with a single unit since he's running single units....however a single Killa Kan is just begging to be first blood. Especially when you're playing Maelstrom and you pull "kill an enemy unit"....."why thank you three times"

It's true though - it's always good to know what other armies can do. I have, on more than one occasion, said to an opponent, "Really? That's how that works?? Can I see the rule?" Most of the time it's against the Daemon Warp storm results lol. Some of them are NUTS! But it's not an unfair thing to ask. When you don't know how a unit works, they are that much more dangerous to you because you can't perform an accurate threat analysis (at least not on purpose) and will wind up making sub-par decisions as a result (like people who strangely decide to shoot at the things that are getting cover from a Malanthrope/Venomthrope rather than the source itself - great idea! )

First Blood doesn't matter when thanks to the exploit my tanks are about to be charged with Str10 AP1 3 4 attacks.

Killa Kans?

They are S7 AP2 at best, with WS 2 and I2 so not good in CC. They also have 2 HP and Av 11/11/10. Devourer shots drop them like flies

Are you talking about either a Morkanaut or Gorkanaut? If you are, you should be thankful, Lootas/Mek Guns are much better uses of HS options of Orks.

I digress though, when did Orks come into play in a nids vs Tau thread?

I don't even know. And yes, I'm talking about Killa Kans. He says their CC attacks are S10 AP1 because they have Dreadnought Close Combat weapons.