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Verviedi wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

Verviedi wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
I believe he means that you can only target one Killa Kan with a single unit since he's running single units....however a single Killa Kan is just begging to be first blood. Especially when you're playing Maelstrom and you pull "kill an enemy unit"....."why thank you three times"

It's true though - it's always good to know what other armies can do. I have, on more than one occasion, said to an opponent, "Really? That's how that works?? Can I see the rule?" Most of the time it's against the Daemon Warp storm results lol. Some of them are NUTS! But it's not an unfair thing to ask. When you don't know how a unit works, they are that much more dangerous to you because you can't perform an accurate threat analysis (at least not on purpose) and will wind up making sub-par decisions as a result (like people who strangely decide to shoot at the things that are getting cover from a Malanthrope/Venomthrope rather than the source itself - great idea! )

First Blood doesn't matter when thanks to the exploit my tanks are about to be charged with Str10 AP1 3 4 attacks.

Killa Kans?

They are S7 AP2 at best, with WS 2 and I2 so not good in CC. They also have 2 HP and Av 11/11/10. Devourer shots drop them like flies

Are you talking about either a Morkanaut or Gorkanaut? If you are, you should be thankful, Lootas/Mek Guns are much better uses of HS options of Orks.

I digress though, when did Orks come into play in a nids vs Tau thread?

I don't even know. And yes, I'm talking about Killa Kans. He says their CC attacks are S10 AP1 because they have Dreadnought Close Combat weapons.

Dreadnought Close Combat weapons? In Orks?

I'm going to get my 7th ed Ork Codex and edit this post to upload some pictures to prove your 'friend' is cheating. I think we've found the root of the problems you've been having.

Just a quick note, he will not believe anything you guys say unless you give him a page number.
The manager of the GW store told us to not believe anything the internet says about unit viability or rules, and he has taken it to heart.

Killa Kans at one point DID have Dreadnought CCW, but it lost them somewhere... I forget WHERE.

As for the page number I can't help you reference that, no 7th ed Ork for me.

Ok, we'll play it his way.

Killa Kan, pg 81. Has all the stats and wargear options for it, looks like the first picture I posted.
Kan klaw, pg 93 (or the back of the book).

Honestly, I don't know why you even bother with him, based on what you've said previously:

Verviedi wrote:
Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)

The Nid Codex changed drastically, there is no way you can calculate points cost online when the units themselves lose special rules, characteristics and options.

He's got double standards set in place. Drop 'im.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Ok, we'll play it his way.

Killa Kan, pg 81. Has all the stats and wargear options for it, looks like the first picture I posted.
Kan klaw, pg 93 (or the back of the book).

Honestly, I don't know why you even bother with him, based on what you've said previously:

Verviedi wrote:
Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)

The Nid Codex changed drastically, there is no way you can calculate points cost online when the units themselves lose special rules, characteristics and options.

He's got double standards set in place. Drop 'im.

He's my only opponent, and he only played nids in 5th ed.

Verviedi wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Ok, we'll play it his way.

Killa Kan, pg 81. Has all the stats and wargear options for it, looks like the first picture I posted.
Kan klaw, pg 93 (or the back of the book).

Honestly, I don't know why you even bother with him, based on what you've said previously:

Verviedi wrote:
Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)

The Nid Codex changed drastically, there is no way you can calculate points cost online when the units themselves lose special rules, characteristics and options.

He's got double standards set in place. Drop 'im.

He's my only opponent, and he only played nids in 5th ed.

It's still a double standard in my book, requesting that page numbers be shown for units when he himself doesn't have the Codex to reference his own (Nid) army, instead using the Internet.
I shall however retract the statement if your GW manager has recently enforced the 'don't believe internet for rules'.

Speaking of GW, you must have other people in your area who collect and would be willing to give you a fair game.

 Frozocrone wrote:

Verviedi wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Ok, we'll play it his way.

Killa Kan, pg 81. Has all the stats and wargear options for it, looks like the first picture I posted.
Kan klaw, pg 93 (or the back of the book).

Honestly, I don't know why you even bother with him, based on what you've said previously:

Verviedi wrote:
Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)

The Nid Codex changed drastically, there is no way you can calculate points cost online when the units themselves lose special rules, characteristics and options.

He's got double standards set in place. Drop 'im.

He's my only opponent, and he only played nids in 5th ed.

It's still a double standard in my book, requesting that page numbers be shown for units when he himself doesn't have the Codex to reference his own (Nid) army, instead using the Internet.
I shall however retract the statement if your GW manager has recently enforced the 'don't believe internet for rules'.

Speaking of GW, you must have other people in your area who collect and would be willing to give you a fair game.

Not really. There are some other people who go to the GW store to play games, but since I can only go on weekends, there's either a guy there who wants to play me or a ghost town where the manager and I paint things in silence. My other opponents are a really nice DE player and another nid player who brings a tournament list (Still a cool guy), but they are not always there.

Verviedi wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

Verviedi wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Ok, we'll play it his way.

Killa Kan, pg 81. Has all the stats and wargear options for it, looks like the first picture I posted.
Kan klaw, pg 93 (or the back of the book).

Honestly, I don't know why you even bother with him, based on what you've said previously:

Verviedi wrote:
Tyranids (He never bought the codex and instead used the unit stats and weapons from the back of the 5th ed rulebook, and used "The Internet" to figure out points values. Primed white.)

The Nid Codex changed drastically, there is no way you can calculate points cost online when the units themselves lose special rules, characteristics and options.

He's got double standards set in place. Drop 'im.

He's my only opponent, and he only played nids in 5th ed.

It's still a double standard in my book, requesting that page numbers be shown for units when he himself doesn't have the Codex to reference his own (Nid) army, instead using the Internet.
I shall however retract the statement if your GW manager has recently enforced the 'don't believe internet for rules'.

Speaking of GW, you must have other people in your area who collect and would be willing to give you a fair game.

Not really. There are some other people who go to the GW store to play games, but since I can only go on weekends, there's either a guy there who wants to play me or a ghost town where the manager and I paint things in silence. My other opponents are a really nice DE player and another nid player who brings a tournament list (Still a cool guy), but they are not always there.

So the GW is letting him play unpainted models? That is a bit different, at least around here the GW requires all armies used in store to be painted/wysiwyg.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
IF you got to play him, make him pull out his dex and point out the costs and the rules.

Well, firstly, if he's not playing double CAD or unbound, the list with 3 separate kanz, dreads and something are illegal. Cause they all occupy heavy support. He could easilly have a squadron of 2, than a separate kan and a deff dread - that'd take up 3 HS slots.

Secondly, kanz are s7 ap2 ws2 ini2 2HP and have...2 base attacks iirc. They don't have dreadnought weapons now in the new dex. And i'd advise you to check their point cost in his list. Cause they cost 50 pt base now and have a special rule like leadership tests when squadronned kanz die to make them even worse. All in all, kanz are considered one of the worst units in the current dex out from a dreadmob formation. They used to be s10 a few months ago before the new dex, though, so maybe it was just before the update.

Thirdly, dreadnought weapons are ap2. Only naughts have s10 ap1 weapons. Not that ap1-2 matters vs nids but still.

if you are playing ork v nid games, make sure to use an Inquisitor named Kryptman as an objective.

Well, this got off topic fast. Can we go back to how to beat the fish?

Maelstorm + adequate terrain + midboard controle. Your list is allready good enough for this.

 koooaei wrote:
Maelstorm + adequate terrain + midboard controle. Your list is allready good enough for this.

Midboard control? You mean get in rapid fire instagib ignore cover range of his S5 AP5 Pulse Rifles?

It kinda sounds like this was a match built game where you both knew what each other were bringing enough for him to know you were running Gaunts and Flyrants. Tau are still the 2nd easiest army to play in 40k due to their absurdly cheap and highly effective units. If you give them the edge by letting them know what you're bringing they will easily use that tailoring to their advantage.

A small tip, play with more LoS blocking terrain. Use Biovores, they are amazing at ridding the board of Markerlights and Fire Warriors hiding in cover.

I dont usually see many Tyranid players in our area, but the 1 golden rule for any melee army is "Abuse LoS" and by that I of course mean "Play with ample Terrain and LoS Blocking Terrain" All of the terrain you have on that board right now, should be on ONE of those square sections. There simply isn't enough to actually play a competent and REAL game of 40k on that =/ If you guys had more buildings, actually played for objectives and weren't playing the Tau game of "Lets see how long it takes for me to erase you from the board as you walk towards me" you would have had a much more fun and actually challenging game.

Verviedi wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Maelstorm + adequate terrain + midboard controle. Your list is allready good enough for this.

Midboard control? You mean get in rapid fire instagib ignore cover range of his S5 AP5 Pulse Rifles?

Really he can't kill you faster than you get to him, if he was not cheating and forcing you to run at 100+ pt handicap.

Your list is fine, your opponet's on the other hand is a cheater special. Add that to playing long ways on planet boweling ball and you will be hard pressed, but it is still not unwinnable.

You are checking for nightfighting turn 1? That will nerf alot of the alpha stirke options and let you get a lot closer be fore the fire hits.

Everyttime your opponent contradicts this thread, make him show you the rules in the codex.

Verviedi wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Maelstorm + adequate terrain + midboard controle. Your list is allready good enough for this.

Midboard control? You mean get in rapid fire instagib ignore cover range of his S5 AP5 Pulse Rifles?

Frankly, you're going to have to get into rapid fire range, Tau will always beat Nids in a gunfight. You need to exploit their weakness by getting into Close Combat, where Tau fold, but you also need to be smart about it, BLOS whenever possible and ideally only allowing Rapid Fire on Overwatch.

They won't always have ignore cover, that usually comes from Markerlights, which should be the first thing to go. Target priority is going to be key to beating Tau.

As others have said, get your friend to show you the codex when he contradicts what the Dakka community has said

 Frozocrone wrote:

Verviedi wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Maelstorm + adequate terrain + midboard controle. Your list is allready good enough for this.

Midboard control? You mean get in rapid fire instagib ignore cover range of his S5 AP5 Pulse Rifles?

Frankly, you're going to have to get into rapid fire range, Tau will always beat Nids in a gunfight. You need to exploit their weakness by getting into Close Combat, where Tau fold, but you also need to be smart about it, BLOS whenever possible and ideally only allowing Rapid Fire on Overwatch.

They won't always have ignore cover, that usually comes from Markerlights, which should be the first thing to go. Target priority is going to be key to beating Tau.

As others have said, get your friend to show you the codex when he contradicts what the Dakka community has said

I will target the enemy FWs first


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This weekend is the day where the game will happen. I am still trying to think of a way to hide massive quantities of nids so my opponent list tailors for IG.

There is no need for such silliness. Tau fold like paper to Nids. You just need to work target priority, aka get it out of your mind that you have to kill that hammerhead. You also need to work speed. Yes that means in range of all their guns.

You have been given suggestions many times on how to do those things.

How do I kill the 3-Flamer-Each deep striking Iridium Commander and his 2 bodyguards with drones?

Not to sound negative, but the particular Tau list in the OP is rather bad. Everytime I face a Tau list in a tournament it seems identical.

2 Missileside squads, sometimes with Drones, sometimes without, one is sometimes with a commander
2 Riptides
Some deepstriking melta suits
A Skyray
*Insert 2-3 favorite markerlight units here

Maybe the odd hammerhead for killing the CCB, Usually something to bubble wrap the above squads, maybe a missilesuit squad.


That type of list is a bit rough for tyranids, as your flyrants don't exist after turn 1. Flying or not.


If you can play the speed game and stay outside of 36 inches of the sides, you can just move on objectives last turn, albeit this is not a very fun game to play. I remember once first blood was the last turn of the game when I played against that Tau list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The iridium commander if he deeps strikes into your line is killed by any smash attack, use the MC of your choice.

 Lord Commissar wrote:
Not to sound negative, but the particular Tau list in the OP is rather bad. Everytime I face a Tau list in a tournament it seems identical.

2 Missileside squads, sometimes with Drones, sometimes without, one is sometimes with a commander
2 Riptides
Some deepstriking melta suits
A Skyray
*Insert 2-3 favorite markerlight units here

Maybe the odd hammerhead for killing the CCB, Usually something to bubble wrap the above squads, maybe a missilesuit squad.


That type of list is a bit rough for tyranids, as your flyrants don't exist after turn 1. Flying or not.


If you can play the speed game and stay outside of 36 inches of the sides, you can just move on objectives last turn, albeit this is not a very fun game to play. I remember once first blood was the last turn of the game when I played against that Tau list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The iridium commander if he deeps strikes into your line is killed by any smash attack, use the MC of your choice.

How do I charge something with 6 Wall of Death attacks? Also, Sworn Protecter and drones. It'll go like this.
Smash! *Enemy removes gun drone*

Does he always run flamers?

Chuck something giant at it that will have ah ard time wounding first then the chumps.

Spread out the chumps so that there is no way he can kill all of them within range and keep em in synaps to keep em fearless

then go to town in CC

You killing drones is fine because once you win combat and they run, you should easily overrun them.

(also fear test IIRC)

You obviously will challenge the commander. I am pretty sure a dakkaflyrant (Or any nid unit) can kill a Tau squad in CC. If 6 s4 hits are killing your Flyrant thats a whole different problem.....

Verviedi wrote:

How do I charge something with 6 Wall of Death attacks? Also, Sworn Protecter and drones. It'll go like this.
Smash! *Enemy removes gun drone*

You don't get to overwatch twice. Run something expendable into them and then charge with your choppy thing.

Also, this guy sounds like a prize douche. Running cheese is acceptable; cheating isn't.

Hard up for opponents? Check out VASSAL, talk 40k on 4chan's /tg/ if this doesn't move fast enough for you, look at reddit and finally, look at Dakka's championship listss to see what kind of armies are out there and think about how you would beat them. The BAO was just a few months ago and the lists here are great to see what would beat you over the head (Spoiler: Bike Marines)

Anyway, good luck. Maybe look for another FLGS, or see if the manager would let you post a league notice at the store. Managers love escalation tournaments where you start at 500 points and add 250 a week, because that happens to be the points cost for most units or so, which is a great way to sell models and help new players get into it.

Good luck out there. I hope you start modeling dead tau on your bases.

Dear lord....there is no terrain!

Add some damn terrain! Anything!

That table is so NOT legal it is insulting, Tau will always win with that kind of table yeesh.

Darkfire66 wrote:

Verviedi wrote:

How do I charge something with 6 Wall of Death attacks? Also, Sworn Protecter and drones. It'll go like this.
Smash! *Enemy removes gun drone*

You don't get to overwatch twice. Run something expendable into them and then charge with your choppy thing.

Also, this guy sounds like a prize douche. Running cheese is acceptable; cheating isn't.

Hard up for opponents? Check out VASSAL, talk 40k on 4chan's /tg/ if this doesn't move fast enough for you, look at reddit and finally, look at Dakka's championship listss to see what kind of armies are out there and think about how you would beat them. The BAO was just a few months ago and the lists here are great to see what would beat you over the head (Spoiler: Bike Marines)

Anyway, good luck. Maybe look for another FLGS, or see if the manager would let you post a league notice at the store. Managers love escalation tournaments where you start at 500 points and add 250 a week, because that happens to be the points cost for most units or so, which is a great way to sell models and help new players get into it.

Good luck out there. I hope you start modeling dead tau on your bases.

Emmmm.... I'm playing at a GW Store...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sfshilo wrote:
Dear lord....there is no terrain!

Add some damn terrain! Anything!

That table is so NOT legal it is insulting, Tau will always win with that kind of table yeesh.

My opponent is not to be allowed ANY buildings, due to his overwhelming levels of camping FW teams.

Verviedi wrote:
How do I kill the 3-Flamer-Each deep striking Iridium Commander and his 2 bodyguards with drones?

If you opponent is dumb enough to DS his commander unit within flamer range of your troops, then you have a cake walk. Range is the only way that Tau can hope to survive. Nids beat that with speed and back field threats.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned in any of the pages previous to this, but you might consider employing more deep strikers. For example, a Mawloc would destroy whatever infantry he has on the table. Also, I can second, third and fourth the notion that you should get some Biovores. They remove models at range super fast. And if you're jealous of his plasma, grab yourself an exocrine bro. It's tough and can put out a blast or just a bunch of AP 2 shots. Since we're two-thirds of the way there already, it's worth considering running living artillery. It's a formation that includes an exocrine, 3 warriors and a brood of Biovores. Twin-links everybody's guns and gives them pinning (which is great against Tau). You won't be able to out-shoot him but it's a start. Also, I'm not sure if it's already been mentioned, but a couple things about your list:

1) why does your fex have a venom cannon? The range is nice but instead you could be putting out 12 Twin-linked str 6 shots a turn. Sound better? That's because it is

2) having a Flyrant is good. Having two is better

3) is your Tervigon a troop choice? Because you can make it one for free since you have enough termagants. That makes it (and the babies it spawns) objective: secured, which is the bees' knees

Overall, I inow its been said, but here are three easy steps to winning the game:

1) Put the appropriate amount of terrain on the table, for the love of all that is holy

2) play maelstrom. If your opponent doesn't like maelstrom, offer a compromise. The Bay Area Open missions are great - eternal war primary, modified maelstrom secondary, and the three tertiary points (linebreaker, warlord and first blood). It allows you to do what you do well, allows him to do what he does well, and rewards tactical play - not just shooting stuff because guns. These missions are easily downloadable for free from Frontlinegaming, or you could just google search for them

3) Bring a second list. The great thing about Nids is that they can do so many different things. I have a threat overload list where everything hits you turn 2. I have an extremely shooty list that drowns you in firepower. I have a list with a bunch of gribblies. I have a list with more MC than you can shake a stick at. I also have the Skyblight formation. I have been playing Nids for a while, admittedly. Anyhow, my point is that you should bring multiple lists and not let him tailor to one or the other. Once his list is set, then you can flip a coin or something. Even let him know what you're doing - that way he knows he can't tailor to your specific list.

Nids are a monobuild army. The only viable list I can make using the models I have is this-

Flyrant w/ Electrogrubs and Devourers
Flyrant w/ Electrogrubs and Devourers

Venomthrope
Zoanthrope

Termagants
Hormagaunts
Tervigon
Rippers

Gargoyles

Carnifex

Verviedi wrote:
Nids are a monobuild army.

That's just not true.