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Feel pretty bad for the OP getting ripped off like that. Happy to see you are fighting back though

Even though I paint myself, I will be getting some commisioned painting done at some point because I have always wanted a truely amazing army for display.

It just won't be Blue Table Painting that gets my business.

I couldn't resist to send a "warning" to MWG, linking to this very thread.
I got a very speedy reply, thanking me for the head's up from Mat (camped the Emails )...
So they are at least aware of the issues here. If they follow up on this or adress it remains to be seen.

Kinda feel nervous about having a 650$ commission pending with the last guys they recommended now...

 tenebre wrote:
hmm so these testimonials are supposed to negate their bad work ? as well as negate their reaction to said work?

Even i never said they "cant" do good work. I have seen past stuff that is good. My experience however was far different.

And their reaction only made it worse.

I feel for you. It's a shame we can't setup a gofund me or something so you can get your army repainted by a better studio or something. There has to be a silver lining in this issue but, you'd be mad (as you stated yourself,) to give them your models for another go. On your second video I watched, them trying to coerce you into returning your models that YOU, not THEM paid for, reeks of attempting theft. Just my thoughts, I am not calling them thieves but, it's sketchy. Especially where they came across as threatening for you going public with a very fair review. You have handled this like a saint.

Perhaps the proper response is a community video showing off BTP projects gone wrong. I don't think that would be that difficult to put together.

Seems like a good idea but, how can the community help Ten with his botched OOP and FW models? I own only a few FW models and I use FW bits in all my builds heavily. I cannot imagine owning a full FW model and having it ruined with a paint job gone wrong.

(It's the reason why I've not painted my models yet...)

We cannot help Ten anymore. But we can counteract the PR machine be showing the opposite side to prevent more people from making Ten's mistake.

Hm, true. I guess you're right. I just hope this goes well, considering this happens every few months with BTP from the looks of it.

buddy of mine recently had work done by them....

He was also very unhappy with it.

Cant say I have heard anything good about them either

Regarless of the op being right in this particular instance, I like how this got blown way out of proportion, the 30 or so dissapointed customers posting here just to call it a big number, it has not been nowehere near close to 30, is like what 3to5% or less of the projects they do in 1 year? that snowballed into them being the antichrist.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Regarless of the op being right in this particular instance, I like how this got blown way out of proportion, the 30 or so dissapointed customers posting here just to call it a big number, it has not been nowehere near close to 30, is like what 3to5% or less of the projects they do in 1 year? that snowballed into them being the antichrist.

Shawn...? Is that you?

(Edit: I'm just joking around btw. Don't sue me.)

xxvaderxx wrote:
Regarless of the op being right in this particular instance, I like how this got blown way out of proportion, the 30 or so dissapointed customers posting here just to call it a big number, it has not been nowehere near close to 30, is like what 3to5% or less of the projects they do in 1 year? that snowballed into them being the antichrist.

Missing the point as usual.

Their response, in rejecting all wrong going and blaming the victim in the process, was what "snowballed" it.

 Coldwill wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Regarless of the op being right in this particular instance, I like how this got blown way out of proportion, the 30 or so dissapointed customers posting here just to call it a big number, it has not been nowehere near close to 30, is like what 3to5% or less of the projects they do in 1 year? that snowballed into them being the antichrist.

Shawn...? Is that you?

(Edit: I'm just joking around btw. Don't sue me.)

yeah god forbid some one takes a deep breath and a step back before assessing this particular customers poor experience. the sky is falling btp is coming to steal your grandmas pension and so on and so forth.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Regarless of the op being right in this particular instance, I like how this got blown way out of proportion, the 30 or so dissapointed customers posting here just to call it a big number, it has not been nowehere near close to 30, is like what 3to5% or less of the projects they do in 1 year? that snowballed into them being the antichrist.

Missing the point as usual.

Their response, in rejecting all wrong going and blaming the victim in the process, was what "snowballed" it.

QFT.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 Coldwill wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Regarless of the op being right in this particular instance, I like how this got blown way out of proportion, the 30 or so dissapointed customers posting here just to call it a big number, it has not been nowehere near close to 30, is like what 3to5% or less of the projects they do in 1 year? that snowballed into them being the antichrist.

Shawn...? Is that you?

(Edit: I'm just joking around btw. Don't sue me.)

yeah god forbid some one takes a deep breath and a step back before assessing this particular customers poor experience. the sky is falling btp is coming to steal your grandmas pension and so on and so forth.

Why would they take her pension? SHE IS A NICE LADY

Does anyone have any information about what "Miniwargaming" gets in exchange for a BTP endorsement?

It says they've done work for them, are we to assume that this work was an in-kind exchange for an endorsement.

Also, has anyone noticed that they have a "Blue Table Live" vault show on November 12th?
http://www.miniwargaming.com/liveshows

I'm very " (o.O) ? WTF? " about how this is being handled by BTP.

Seriously, the best thing to have done, as trust has been lost by the client, is refund down to the appropriate level (looks like 2 on their own scale to me) and write it off as a bad job. I believe that's basically what Tenebre asked for (and BTP rejected).

I'm quite happy to say I don't think BTP are capable of high end tabletop work any more. I base this on the work they did for display, for a product release, for GenCon. Robotech Tactics, I'm a' lookin' at you.

Absolutely fething godawful for a product release.

Compare with any of the high end tabletop stuff I did for Mantic; or indeed that Dave does for them now in house.

Not competition stuff, it's just 'nice work'. BTP do gak by comparison, but still a) tout that they can do the (better) standard of work and b) charge for that better standard.

Caveat fething Emptor.

Edit: This does not mean I think the lower end service is not worthwhile, a viable market, or that their operation as a whole is shaky, beyond them promising what they apparently can't do.

 Eilif wrote:
Does anyone have any information about what "Miniwargaming" gets in exchange for a BTP endorsement?

It says they've done work for them, are we to assume that this work was an in-kind exchange for an endorsement.

Also, has anyone noticed that they have a "Blue Table Live" vault show on November 12th?
http://www.miniwargaming.com/liveshows

They go to those events btp organizes, so im fairly certain they involved in some cross publicity thing. Thou i highly doubt there is anything written and financial between them.

winterdyne wrote:
Seriously, the best thing to have done, as trust has been lost by the client, is refund down to the appropriate level (looks like 2 on their own scale to me) and write it off as a bad job. I believe that's basically what Tenebre asked for (and BTP rejected).

Agreed. That was best case scenario here for BTP and allowed for BTP to retain some credibility. To me that's very generous of tenebre to offer because the quality is simply not what he paid for and the paintjob itself wasn't even what he asked for--all the OSL, etc. Things like not painting the underside of some of the vehicles is just confusing. I'm a terrible painter, don't get me wrong, but even I would do a little bit of dry brushing underneath the vehicles to bring out some of the detail.

 Lt. Coldfire wrote:

winterdyne wrote:
Seriously, the best thing to have done, as trust has been lost by the client, is refund down to the appropriate level (looks like 2 on their own scale to me) and write it off as a bad job. I believe that's basically what Tenebre asked for (and BTP rejected).

Agreed. That was best case scenario here for BTP and allowed for BTP to retain some credibility. To me that's very generous of tenebre to offer because the quality is simply not what he paid for and the paintjob itself wasn't even what he asked for--all the OSL, etc. Things like not painting the underside of some of the vehicles is just confusing. I'm a terrible painter, don't get me wrong, but even I would do a little bit of dry brushing underneath the vehicles to bring out some of the detail.

Forget dry brushing, it takes like 10 seconds flat to do with an airbrush.

Does it look to others like BTP is relying heavily on airbrushing to get their projects done? Not that airbrushing is a bad method, just that there are alot of things that airbrushing can't do. I just looked at a couple of their armies and it looks like some of them were majority airbrushed.

I'm not an expert, but most of what the OP has looks like airbrushing with very little use of the more advanced manual brushwork that would be required to get the level of quality he paid for.

Well it's quite simple. A company like BTP relies on customer relations. If the word spreads about not only the low quality of their work but also how poorly they treat their customers, the company will go under. And good riddance.

Airbrushing's great, but not for doing detail, certainly not at speed. I'm not particularly interested in getting into a technical deconstruction of the work done, it boils down to a simple endpoint:

It needs redoing, from scratch, as attempting to work with what's already done is not economically viable.

xxvaderxx, honestly, if you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk. We'll get on better that way and it won't pollute the thread with misinformation.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Regarless of the op being right in this particular instance, I like how this got blown way out of proportion, the 30 or so dissapointed customers posting here just to call it a big number, it has not been nowehere near close to 30, is like what 3to5% or less of the projects they do in 1 year? that snowballed into them being the antichrist.

Not even close pal.

Your attempted hyperbole aside, what has placed Blue Table Painting in such a negative light is their reaction to the issue, this isn't about a badly painted army, it's about a badly painted army, ridiculous waiting times (Especially given the lazy paint job), expense, frustration and the total inability to offer a satisfactory remedy to it.

No one has accused them of being the antichrist, in fact we only got to that labeling via you... Plenty have come forward to support the statements made by the OP with their own experiences, which, given the size of the internet, likelihood of someone to post and so on, renders your attempt to quantify with a statistic percentage, totally worthless.

As to the other labels we're seeing here, crooked, theft etc, all are within the scope of accurate assessment for what's gone on here. I doubt there can be many hobbyists with any experience of painting for themselves or using painting services who would look at what the OP received as 'value for money' or 'worth what he paid'. Painting standards are, of course, an abstraction, but the collective conscience of the gaming community would most certainly not view that painted product as anywhere near the amount of money he shelled out for it.

He paid for services, the services he received fell way below 'realistic expectation' (both the expectation of the customer himself and of his peers here in the community) and so it can be viewed as theft by deception or theft by failure to fulfill contract.

We aren't calling anyone at Blue Table the antichrist, we are calling them a cowboy outfit.


Again, I remember very well what happened with Natakue's eldar titan and the trade for tau terrain.

Maybe somewhere down the line a thread should be made regarding these guys with all the info on them, just like with MandelBonderOne.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Regarless of the op being right in this particular instance, I like how this got blown way out of proportion, the 30 or so dissapointed customers posting here just to call it a big number, it has not been nowehere near close to 30, is like what 3to5% or less of the projects they do in 1 year? that snowballed into them being the antichrist.

Again, I remember very well what happened with Natakue's eldar titan and the trade for tau terrain.

Go on sir. Pics/vids or it didn't happen.

 Reality-Torrent wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Regarless of the op being right in this particular instance, I like how this got blown way out of proportion, the 30 or so dissapointed customers posting here just to call it a big number, it has not been nowehere near close to 30, is like what 3to5% or less of the projects they do in 1 year? that snowballed into them being the antichrist.

Again, I remember very well what happened with Natakue's eldar titan and the trade for tau terrain.

Go on sir. Pics/vids or it didn't happen.

One quick Google later: http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=788&view=next

Wow. That's comically badly made terrain.

 BrookM wrote:

 Reality-Torrent wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Regarless of the op being right in this particular instance, I like how this got blown way out of proportion, the 30 or so dissapointed customers posting here just to call it a big number, it has not been nowehere near close to 30, is like what 3to5% or less of the projects they do in 1 year? that snowballed into them being the antichrist.

Again, I remember very well what happened with Natakue's eldar titan and the trade for tau terrain.

Go on sir. Pics/vids or it didn't happen.

One quick Google later: http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=788&view=next

Ooooh wow... That terrain looks terrible..

 BrookM wrote:

 Reality-Torrent wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Regarless of the op being right in this particular instance, I like how this got blown way out of proportion, the 30 or so dissapointed customers posting here just to call it a big number, it has not been nowehere near close to 30, is like what 3to5% or less of the projects they do in 1 year? that snowballed into them being the antichrist.

Again, I remember very well what happened with Natakue's eldar titan and the trade for tau terrain.

Go on sir. Pics/vids or it didn't happen.

One quick Google later: http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=788&view=next

Dammit you beat me to the punch sir... good job

Please don't say pics or it didn't happen. One, it makes you sound very childish; two, it makes you seem foolish as all you had to do was to google the information; three, it detracts from what the thread is really about.


Now back on topic - Tenebre I have been following your thread for a bit now but have not commented on it for sake of not wanting to get involved - but seeing all the victim blaming is getting me a bit riled up so I hope you rise above it and go for the throat. You paid these guys expecting an outcome, and that outcome was not met in the slightest - if I was BTP I would have quickly damage controlled this whole situation by offering you a refund on what level it looks like (and by looking at the video closely, it looks like a level 2 at best). That would have allowed you to seek other painters to clean up the mess that my company made. However, by offering to do services, then back pedaling, then threatening saying that you have taken this to the court of public opinion is tantamount to image suicide. Now DakkaDakka sadly is not ALL of the miniature enthusiast out there - but the bright side to this is that you have now shown us what happens when they make a mistake. So, I thank you sir for bringing this to light instead of letting BTP bury this for it gives us a better image of who these people are.

Thank you - and good luck.

fidel wrote:

 BrookM wrote:

 Reality-Torrent wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Regarless of the op being right in this particular instance, I like how this got blown way out of proportion, the 30 or so dissapointed customers posting here just to call it a big number, it has not been nowehere near close to 30, is like what 3to5% or less of the projects they do in 1 year? that snowballed into them being the antichrist.

Again, I remember very well what happened with Natakue's eldar titan and the trade for tau terrain.

Go on sir. Pics/vids or it didn't happen.

One quick Google later: http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=788&view=next

Dammit you beat me to the punch sir... good job

Please don't say pics or it didn't happen. One, it makes you sound very childish; two, it makes you seem foolish as all you had to do was to google the information; three, it detracts from what the thread is really about.


Now back on topic - Tenebre I have been following your thread for a bit now but have not commented on it for sake of not wanting to get involved - but seeing all the victim blaming is getting me a bit riled up so I hope you rise above it and go for the throat. You paid these guys expecting an outcome, and that outcome was not met in the slightest - if I was BTP I would have quickly damage controlled this whole situation by offering you a refund on what level it looks like (and by looking at the video closely, it looks like a level 2 at best). That would have allowed you to seek other painters to clean up the mess that my company made. However, by offering to do services, then back pedaling, then threatening saying that you have taken this to the court of public opinion is tantamount to image suicide. Now DakkaDakka sadly is not ALL of the miniature enthusiast out there - but the bright side to this is that you have now shown us what happens when they make a mistake. So, I thank you sir for bringing this to light instead of letting BTP bury this for it gives us a better image of who these people are.

Thank you - and good luck.

Sir.. Sir.. Name dropping was done and I would like to see such followed by easily accessed links. How ever, this was supplied to me and thus cooling my building rage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And when it comes to the terrain, not saying I would had done better, but one probably might expect something out of the ordinary with such a unique trade..